A reward for perm'ing: A statue!

[Pen N Popper]

I've been thinking about "rewards" for perm'ing, something to ease the OOC distress.  Passing on XP and such as a legacy to the next PC would not suit the mindset of Layonara.  There currently exists a monument area in Willow's Weep that all perm'ed PCs can get statues erected in.  (You don't need to be epic, I hear.)  However, consider this idea:

Wherever someone perms, on that exact spot, a statue is created instead of the traditional gravestone.  These statues are the new "points of interest" and even give some token XP for visiting them.  The player (or their friends) have the chance to add a custom description to the statue to be added in a module update.  

What do you think?  You'd be remembered for generations since everyone would be drawn to your place of falling by the XP.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

I think random Statues springing out of the ground in random places would be a little....  odd

[Pen N Popper]

Alternative to statues where you fall:

• An item anywhere you want (a flower by a tree, a stone in the stream)
• ??

Perhaps be able to put them wherever you want:  A guildhall, a desert, a temple.

[Dorax Windsmith]

I think that sounds like a great idea, yea maybe not statues depending on the character and location, but something as a rememberance.

[Makashi]

There is the Hall of Heroes (I think thats what it's called) Where PCs that had died can have their own little spot inside.

It's in willows weep on the Central Server.

[Lord of the Forest]

What Makashi said.

[EdTheKet]

Nice idea, but nothing for nothing, so there would at least have to be some kind of description or story.

Considering the limited response here (read: not a single person) of epics or WLs, it might not be worth the effort.

Also, I think

You'd be remembered for generations since everyone would be drawn to your place of falling by the XP

The chance would be that those places would be visited for the XP, not for the story.... But maybe I'm pessimistic

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

 The chance would be that those places would be visited for the XP, not for the story.... But maybe I'm pessimistic

I'd call it realistic.  I'd like Shiff to be remembered, but not because he died

[Pen N Popper]

While I don't disagree with the sentiments expressed here, I do think there's an opportunity to make the world richer.  

Take, for example, Brisbane's grove.  The trees there are named and have descriptions that make the world a deeper place.  Would there be benefit from having a Point of Interest placed there?  I think so.  No not everyone would stop to examine the area, but then again the repeated opportunity would be there to do so.  Just by going there opens opportunities of RP and discussion.  Who were those people?  Are they still alive?  What happened here?

My thinking was that placing a token in remembrance to the fallen, either where they fell or somewhere that ICly would have suited that PC, would be a token of gratitude to the player.  Yes it was a loss to have the PC perm but they would know that for generations to come their name would be known.  Even after the players leave, their PC's names remain and it increases the opportunity for IC sharing of stories.  (Yes, I'm all about the stories and getting them told.)

Willow's Weep is a great idea.  Perhaps someone on the server team can dig into the logs and find out how much that area is visited.  A new Point of Interest there would at least make the place better known to new and old players.

Just thinking out loud here.

[scifibarbie]

As far as a reward for perming. The hall is a wonderful place. I think though that many young players dont know it exists, and many older players may not know how to get a heroes statue placed there. Placing a flower or something where a character permed is a sweet idea, but if thats the case...im not sure it woudl always fit. Though i think a snowflower of the type that grows near ulgrids (if any exist) appearing where my dwarf erk permed fghtng fisty would be a wonderful way to stick his thumb up at fisty for all time, i doubt it would necessarily fit the layo world.

I think a point of interest in the hall of heroes in willows weep would be a grand idea. Since the hall is in kindof an out of the way place. Putting the POI there would bring more pcs to the place to learn about famous heroes of layonara.

I personally enjoy clicking on items that have descriptions as to the history of a place. And the hall of heroes has a lot of history many new pcs and some older ones may not know.

I will admit I havent been to the hall of heroes in a long time. Once for a quest, and once when sakura was taken there by barion to pay respects to his friend who had fallen recently. That was some very sad but really nice RP by the way.

I know alot of times, especially on mistone, and a few times on dregar, if my new pcs were taken around the lands with one of the older pcs who had some actual knowledge of the lore. We actually had a tale to go with it what we were seeing. Since the flags themselves dont necessarily have any information on the reason for the flag. On a side note, i do think the flags should have some basic information on why the flag is there...ie, where the king committed suicide, or was he pushed for example.

[jan]

*winks*

Barion took Sa'kura there to pay respect to Gotak who then was dead for about 4-5 months rl

The hall is a wonderful place and should be visited more often , even when there is no exp to gain .

Barion always went in when he passed it and pays his respect to his fallen friends , i just rp that they are there if there is no statue .

The same can be said for more places where he kneels and pays his respect with a prayer , its the characters that keep the memory to others alive in my eyes .

But i do agree that more statues would help to get more people visiting the Hall of Hero's .( if it still is there ofcourse )

[Blackguy]

There is only a single person that have gotten into Willows, mostly because everyone else choose to be buried elsewhere.

[Gulnyr]

Passing on XP and such as a legacy to the next PC would not suit the mindset of Layonara.

You'd be remembered for generations since everyone would be drawn to your place of falling by the XP.

Aren't these ideas opposed?  If passing on xp after someone's death doesn't suit Layonara, why should xp be passed on for generations where someone died?

My thinking was that placing a token in remembrance to the fallen, either where they fell or somewhere that ICly would have suited that PC, would be a token of gratitude to the player.  Yes it was a loss to have the PC perm but they would know that for generations to come their name would be known.  Even after the players leave, their PC's names remain and it increases the opportunity for IC sharing of stories.

Isn't one of the basic functions of cemeteries as a place for remembrance of the dead?   The Willows Weep area is made for what you're asking, just without any automatic result.  I don't think there should be an automatic result.  The requirements are pretty simple - have your character perm, then write something about him or ask someone else to write something, then send it to Ed and await approval - but Willows Weep is still pretty empty, despite the increased number of permed characters.  Maybe there are more private memorials than I know about or no one realizes the very low requirements.

Who wants to have their permanent memorial pop up in some dank corner of the Deep or in a quest area that is otherwise inaccessible?  Making the memorial automatic on the spot of death would, in some cases, seem to defeat the purpose of having a reasonably accessible thing for people to ask questions and share stories about.

Isn't it the responsibility of the survivors to try to place special memorials in special locations?  Tory Toranite, who permed, shouldn't just get to automatically choose to have a statue placed in the temple in Llast, or in Llast, or at a crossroads near Llast, or any other spot.  First of all, he's dead.  Second, what did he do?  Die?  Everyone dies!  That's not very special.  If a statue is to be placed, that should be by the effort and will of his surviving friends.  If the character earned it and deserved it through his actions, that's a different story; he did something besides die.  Still not automatic, but it helps that he made a difference somewhere.  Even if all he did was die, though, or no one wants his statue on their lawn, there's still Willows Weep.  How cool is that?

A new Point of Interest there would at least make the place better known to new and old players.

Not necessarily.  The Point of Interest locations aren't posted, so the only ways to find them are to go looking or to know someone who knows.  If people are already looking for them and exploring the world, they have as much chance of finding the tombs in Willows Weep now as they would with a flag stuck in the back corner later.  

I think the area would attract more attention if there were more people remembered there, with their stories written right there with them.  That's the responsibility of the players first and the team area builders second, though.

[Lynn1020]

I didn't know until a few days ago that the Hall of Hero's is for everyone.  Guess I didn't read enough on it but I thought it was for World Leaders and Epic characters.

But we also have to understand that it takes manpower to do things like that and from the sound of it we don't have a lot of it right now.

[Dorganath]

Brisbane's grove is quite literally a ECDQ/WLDQ reward, and I know for a fact that both character and player would be far more than mad if a Point of Interest flag were placed there and people just cycled through there to farm the XP from it.  Since I ran the quest and created the grove, I'm highly inclined to preserve its significance not cheapen it by turning it into a tourist attraction.

And the story of the grove is much grander than what can be described on a flag, and  I'd say the same goes for most of the POI flags we have placed right now.  The idea is to encourage exploration, possibly even finding people who may know the stories (or at least part of the stories) behind the places and be able to relay then through in-game RP.

And let's be honest...that's what a lot of people do (not assuming; I've witnessed it).  Either alts of players with established characters go to visit them for the XP boost or characters of friends take people to them in rapid sequence for some free and easy XP.

I'm all for the rememberance of the permanently dead, but we already have a place for that: The Hall of Heroes.  At minimum, people can write their story and post it here, and relatively few of those who have permed have bothered to do so.  It's partly my fault that those who have permed and who have written stories for the Hall have not made it in-game.  This is simply an issue of available time and priorities.  An idea such as that suggested will be even more work than just putting a statue in the hall.

As a side note, statues that have erected somewhere else (Leringard Arms, Angel's Hall and Bloody Gate come to mind) have paid for by those who survived them, though in Varka's case, it was something done by the clan (administratively due to his WL status).

And on the PoI system in general, it's built around the idea of a certain number (5 in this case) of points per badge. Once that number is reached, you get the RP badge.  Adding points kind of breaks that system.  Speaking more generically, I'm really not really a big fan of bribing people with XP to do everything that might have some interest in the world.  There's FAR more interesting and historic places than just the PoI's.

It's all about the journey, afterall, not the destination.

[Pen N Popper]

Well put this in my "bad idea" bucket then.  Not often an idea gets this much smackdown!

[Gulnyr]

Aww.

It's not a bad idea, it's just that it's mostly already possible one way or another.  People just have to put in the effort.

[Dorganath]

What Gulnyr said.

[Blackguy]

I'm all for the rememberance of the permanently dead, but we already have a place for that: The Hall of Heroes.  At minimum, people can write their story and post it here, and relatively few of those who have permed have bothered to do so.

If people went to Willows they would see a written up story from a specific dwarf on his tombstone there. Also if you search the The Hall of Heroes, you will find two short stories about said dwarf. Maybee people just need to make sure that if you want to be remembered, its requires an active part from the player itself.

[Nehetsrev]

There is only a single person that have gotten into Willows, mostly because everyone else choose to be buried elsewhere.

Not True....My character Melanna Jin'Daern was to be in Willow's Weep, even wrote up a nice summarized life-history for her and posted it in the appropriate forum board back in February of 2007 (Here's the link:  http://forums.layonara.com/hall-heroes-heroines/112759-melanna-jindaern-servant-people.html).  However, no headstone or what-have-you has been added in there for her yet...  I think it's due to that being too low a priority for all the updates that've been made since she permed way-back when.  Anyhow, I still stop by there after each update just to check and see if any new memorials of characters have been added yet, but Gotak's remains the only one.