Dorand clerics and weapons

[jrizz]

Shouldn't clerics of Dorand be able to use the heavy pick for their weapon? It is on the symbol for Dorand. Thoughts?

[darkstorme]

The clerics are called Hammers of Dorand, worship is done at the forge, rather than in the mine, and his constellation is the Creator's Hammer.  While I'm sure his clerics use picks in their work, I'd say Dorand's preference is pretty plain.

[jrizz]

But his symbol shows the pick and shovel as well. So it is clear that mining is an important part of the crafting process.

[Eight-Bit]

But his symbol shows the pick and shovel as well. So it is clear that mining is an important part of the crafting process.

You can't smith without mining. It's a "chicken or the egg" scenario when it comes to Dorand. They are equally as important if you ask me, and despite the symbolic regularity the hammer implies, I can't see any reason for a Dorandite to  take the pick into consideration.

[jrizz]

I think the above argument should have concluded with "I cant see any reason for a dorandite to not take the pick into consideration". That would better follow the premises.

[jrizz]

Adding to my thought:

Most temples of Dorand are natural things, usually dug into a mountain or hill

In other words something very much like a mine.

[ycleption]

The same argument could certainly be made (probably more strongly) for Berylites and Sulterites...
I'm sure a follower of Prunilla is adept with flails and scythes... but they aren't her favored weapon.

Dorand is the god of crafting, not just metalwork. Like Darkstorme said, everything about him is centered on the symbol of the hammer; his path is even called the Way of the Hammer. I'm sure that his clerics are expected to use a pick, as well as shovels (which are also on his symbol), but wouldn't you think that Dorand would want his clerics, when they walk into town, to be immediately recognized by the hammer they carry?
I'm sure that a given submission could make a compelling case for using a pick, but to say that clerics freely should be able to seems to be contrary to the clear way his church is organized around the symbol of the hammer.

[jrizz]

Oh I would agree that it can be a subject to be dealt with in a submission. But it should not have to be a great stretch.

What I am putting forth is that is should not have been centered just on the hammer. There are many tools of crafting, Dorand is the god of crafting not just metalworking (weapon and armor making). There are many crafters that never touch a hammer. The structure of the church should have been a progression though the different crafting tools with The Hammer being the highest rank (or something like that).

The lore page on Dorand talks in general about spending time at the forge not the anvil. You do not use a hammer at the forge. Smelting is a craft that many artisans must take up in order to do their craft. So why leave out all the other tools of crafting. I understand the whole favored weapons thing and the hammer should be one of them but the other is an axe, how does that fit? Why is it an axe over a pick? A pick is on his symbol not an axe.

[Eight-Bit]

I think the above argument should have concluded with "I cant see any reason for a dorandite to not take the pick into consideration". That would better follow the premises.

Hey, dropped a not.

[lonnarin]

I understand the whole favored weapons thing and the hammer should be one of them but the other is an axe, how does that fit? Why is it an axe over a pick? A pick is on his symbol not an axe.

The axe can be used to chop lumber... plus, pickaxes are axes by definition... you can't take the "axe" out of the pickaxe!  If you choose pickaxe as a Dorandite and explain that you did so because of its use in crafting, there shouldn't be any problem with that.  Dorand knows you venerate him in using it, and that's what matters most.

So sayeth the Defender of Dorand!

[EdTheKet]

Greetings

Time for some Loremaster input.

‘When Dorand was a lad, he stood at his father’s side at the forge and learned to smith. He wern’t the best then, nor when he grew to manhood. But he kept tryin’. Still, he was a poorer crafter than others of his time and in every competition he lost, his work bein’ just less than the rest. Still, he tried, and tried, an’ hammered until his fingers bled.

Twas one day in spring they say when he lost his last competition, havin’ come in second, an’ left, weary an’ sad to lay down his tools for good. It was then that Father Battle appeared afore him an’ commissioned from him an axe. Dorand couldn’t believe it; he supposedly told Vorax that he was not the best, an’ to ask one of the winners.  Vorax shook his head, sayin’ he didn’t want someone who thought he was already a master. He wanted someone who would try harder. Dorand thought for a moment an’ accepted. Father Battle give him ten years to make the axe, an’ left.

Dorand spent years searching for the perfect metal for the axe. He traveled Layonara until he finally came to a cave in the hills between the twin river’s embrace. Here he found a metal that was as stormy as Mist an’ as blue as the ocean goddess, an’ as tough as Vorax himself. He tried to work it but the metal broke every tool he used, until he forged a hammer of it. That hammer took him another precious year to make an’ it was his finest work, the tool that he would use to make an axe for a god.

He made the axe then usin’ his hammer, an’ it was the finest axe ever seen. He was still polishin’ the blade when the Eternally Vigilant showed himself an’ asked for his commission. Dorand showed him the weapon and Vorax was pleased, for truly it was a masterwork beyond any seen. But then Vorax spied the hammer, an’ studied it. He handed it back an’ said that no finer tool had ever been made in the world or the Heavens, an’ that hammer could make anything. And he asked Dorand to come with him and be the smith to the gods then. Story goes that Dorand shed tears of joy on the ground, for the little dwarven boy who was never quite good enough had finally proven himself. He went with Father Battle an’ he’s been the Lord of Crafters ever since.’

Dorand was a smith, and he wielded a hammer. Regardless of him now being the god of crafting, he is still a smith at heart, and it was the use of his hammer in forging the axe for Vorax which made him rise to godhood.

That is why the clergy prefer the hammer, why it is the way of the Hammer, and why most clerics are called Hammers (some will be called Hauberks in the new handbook).

However, the new Pantheon book text does contain the line "Nearly all clerics of Dorand wield some version of a hammer or pick, since these are the tools used in both their craft and their worship."
The vast majority however, will wield a hammer, and they will choose it over the pick, no doubt about that.

And no we will not be updating LORE at this time.

[jrizz]

Pick in, Lore update out. Got it. Thanks