Clerics who cast "divine whateverBecauseIcan'tRP"

[Drizzlin]

I think it is a direct attack when a cleric casts that spell that tells them what religion you follow. I think something needs to be done about it. What is the point of RP and trying to hide what faith and relgions you follow, when clerics run right up and abuse that spell? To me casting that spell is no different than me, as a wizad, hitting someone with a fireball to test their fire resistance.

In games where pvp is allowed, I would kill the player and take it as an attack. Any spell cast on someone, without their wish is IMO an open attack. GMs have rules against wizards abusing Gate spell, they need to have one on the Divine IcastonYouSoIdon'tHavetoRPtoFindOutYourPCsReligionandBeliefsByTheirActions.

[orth]

It tells them how their deity feels about you, they aren't really casting it ON YOU, they're just getting the Divine Relation. They have to target you somehow... I suppose we could just make it like Bless and be an Area of Effect spell, would that make it any better?

[philhappy]

I am playing a Cleric at the moment and I have to say I completely agree with you. There's really no need to be casting the spell anyway, most characters will tell you what deity they folow if asked and if they don't cast the spell really is an invasion of the characters privacy, and could be considered an open attack. If someone does this I guess if you RP, your character would never talk to the cleric again and probably take a dislike to followers of that clerics Deity.

[Faldred]

This kind of ties into the thread on casting against one's will -- it is very rude to cast ANY spell on another PC without asking them first (exception: attempting to heal someone just about to get killed... niceties can wait) or against their will.  An invasive spell, such as one to determine information about someone, cast without their permission could easily be considered equivalent to an attack.

[orth]

You're not getting it, they're not casting it on you, they're praying to their god to ask how their God feels about you.  They target you for in game mechanics reasons.  

YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW THAT THEY'RE DOING IT

Play a cleric, lose 10,000xp because you don't know who someone follows and you resurrect them.

[Leanthar]

Pretty much what Orth stated. Keep in mind that we have game mechanics here and we need to allow players a way to not lose XP in a way that is beyond frustrating and is caused just by a game system. This is one of those that must be allowed so that clerics are not punished (if they are thinking before hand)--game mechanics is all this is. It is not 'casting' as Orth stated--it is a way to not punish players by losing xp due to a game system.

[philhappy]

I didn't know I could lose XP for resurecting a follower of a different Deity! I'm pretty new to the whole Multi-player thing.Do you lose XP only for enemies or unfriendly Deities? Anyway, this changes everything I said in my first post! Most characters will  tell you their beliefs if asked anyway.

[orth]

[lore=Death System#PenaltiesForTheOneWhoRaises]

[miltonyorkcastle]

*laughs*  yeah, it's all in LORE.  And yeah, the primary use of that "prayer" is to determine whether or not your god will be happy with you if you heal/resurrect them.  Toran would be pretty pissy if one of his clerics raised a Corathite without VERY good reason.

[regnus]

Please read about the death system here.

I can remember a few times where a cleric did not raise the fallen simply because they did not know what deity was followed by someone.  It happens.

And as far as asking about it, I can think of certain deities where you wouldn't simply go advertising around town that you worship them.  So, the cleric is simply praying to their chosen deity for guidance on where someone stands in their eyes.  Obviously as Orth and L stated, there is a mechanical barrier that we have to work with, but there is nothing that we can do about that.

Is it better if the cleric RP's it out?  Yeah it is.  But let's say that you are dead.  How exactly is the cleric going to speak with you to ask?  Are you willing to give up 10000xp to get resurrected?


On a side note here, please don't post things saying things like you can't RP this or that.  Everyone RP's differently and some are better than others.  It isn't about judging how well someone RP's.  It's about having fun.

//EDIT: blast you fast typers!

[Weeblie]

Telling is nice...

But, there is always the possibility that the other person is lying (like, if he's following one of the "bad deities").

Divine Relation, on the other hand, never lies...

[Drizzlin]

orth - 4/12/2006  10:08 AM

You're not getting it, they're not casting it on you, they're praying to their god to ask how their God feels about you.  They target you for in game mechanics reasons.  

YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW THAT THEY'RE DOING IT

Play a cleric, lose 10,000xp because you don't know who someone follows and you resurrect them.

Anytime in D&D a cleric/wizard/spellcaster starts casting/praying/does some form of somatic action with their holy symbol, to start a spell, you can roll a spell craft check to see what spell they are casting. When that spell is cast/prayed/what ever you call it in NWN, a spell craft check is made to see if you know what is being cast.

The reason is under the rule for spellcraft. You recognize the somatic movements, words, actions that lead to the success of the blessing of their gods or the casting of a spell. The higher your spell craft, the better you are at recognizing a spell is being cast.

As far as a cleric costing someone 10k xps when someone is dead...when they are dead, cast what ever you want on them. They will not know.

[Weeblie]

Yes... yes...

But, how can you be sure that they are using it "on" you and not the guy next to you? Or the invicible guy next to you? Besides, the cleric could probably stand 10 meters away, not even looking at your direction.

[miltonyorkcastle]

@ Drizzlin

haha, no, the CLERIC casting it loses 10k XP, not the person being res'd.  and in NWN it does it automatically, but spellcraft assumes you are watching them closely.  someone can cast the spell without your knowledge easy if your character isn't paying attention and fails a spot check, if you really want to get mechanical about it.

[Faldred]

*sheepish laugh*

Ok... I wasn't thinking in terms of resurrection, though that kinds of falls into my exception category of keeping someone from dying (though a bit later in the process that I was thinking).

I was seeing the complaint as someone using a divination spell/prayer to gather information on another player against his will, and my previous comments were made accordingly.

[Drizzlin]

Leanthar - 4/12/2006  10:11 AM

Pretty much what Orth stated. Keep in mind that we have game mechanics here and we need to allow players a way to not lose XP in a way that is beyond frustrating and is caused just by a game system. This is one of those that must be allowed so that clerics are not punished (if they are thinking before hand)--game mechanics is all this is. It is not 'casting' as Orth stated--it is a way to not punish players by losing xp due to a game system.

Makes sense, but I think it should be known, via the spell craft check (which it currently is) that the cleric is casting a spell to determine the deities relations and state that it is not being cast directly on someone. Perhaps make it AoE if it were possible. To me it is about the same as a rogue picking my pockets to see if I have enough coin to buy a sword off of them, rather than just asking if I have the coin first.

I have seen it used a few times in NWN and each time it is used just so the cleric can start slandering the person. I was even threatened in game (indirectly) to have the spell cast on my toon to see what god he worshiped.

I am not trying to cause an issue, I guess it isnt that big of a deal. I just wanted to shout out I thought it was a tad lame the way the spell is being used.

[miltonyorkcastle]

*points to my above post*

[orth]

Drizzlin - 4/12/2006  1:45 PM
I am not trying to cause an issue, I guess it isnt that big of a deal. I just wanted to shout out I thought it was a tad lame the way the spell is being used.

If we nixed things for every time someone used something in a lame way, we'd have a sad world.

Your argument would have been more constructive to begin with if you didn't generalize the usage as you so nicely put it in the subject of this thread. "Clerics who cast "divine whateverBecauseIcan'tRP"

I cast it.  I consider myself a good roleplayer.  To this end is probably why you're seeing an emotional defense from me personally.

[Drizzlin]

Weeblie - 4/12/2006  10:39 AM

Yes... yes...

But, how can you be sure that they are using it "on" you and not the guy next to you? Or the invisible guy next to you? Besides, the cleric could probably stand 10 meters away, not even looking at your direction.

It would be just like a spot check. There is a range as well for your spell craft check in NWN. You are a wizard, with a 25 base spellcraft check. You watch for all spells, and any spell being cast out of the corner of your eye catches your attention. It is no different than a rogue sitting in the corner of a bar, watching everyone's hands...looking for pickpockets ect. It is what they do.

[Drizzlin]

orth - 4/12/2006  10:49 AM

Drizzlin - 4/12/2006  1:45 PM
I am not trying to cause an issue, I guess it isnt that big of a deal. I just wanted to shout out I thought it was a tad lame the way the spell is being used.

If we nixed things for every time someone used something in a lame way, we'd have a sad world.

Your argument would have been more constructive to begin with if you didn't generalize the usage as you so nicely put it in the subject of this thread. "Clerics who cast "divine whateverBecauseIcan'tRP"

I cast it.  I consider myself a good roleplayer.  To this end is probably why you're seeing an emotional defense from me personally.

You are right and for that I appologize. I did it more for sarcasim, which can not be seen via typed words. If we were sitting next to each other, having a beer, you would have laughed at me and tossed some peanuts in my direction.