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Author Topic: Community Building  (Read 8737 times)

Dorganath

Re: Community Building
« Reply #160 on: August 14, 2012, 02:32:05 pm »
It's probably a good idea to move that suggestion to the proper forum.  It'll get lost here.
 

Eight-Bit

Re: Community Building
« Reply #161 on: August 17, 2012, 10:24:04 am »
I'm not going to have a lot to add to this conversation just because writing it all would take entirely too much time, of which I have literally zero. However I do check in the forums every once in a while and it's nice to see people that I saw join the server back when it was like me and 15 other people are still around.

One of my fondest memories of playing here was the feeling in my gut I felt when me and some others were in a high level dungeon and someone checked the server status and said..

"Leanthar is on."
 

LordCove

Re: Community Building
« Reply #162 on: August 18, 2012, 08:40:25 am »
I know this thread was supposed to close as per I'm going to leave it open for a few more days for those who'd like to offer suggestions about developing a stronger community. This thread will close on or around noon CDT of the 15th. .... but I wanted to hit on something Dorg asked that none seemed to answer.

If some of the difficulties that plague lower levels (i.e. level 10 or below) in our reduced server population were lessened or eliminated, would you create a new character and not worry so much about how fast you have to get to Level X for whatever reason? Similarly, would you consider coordinating with other established members (and potentially new ones) and create new characters as a group, not necessarily all affiliated (but it helps) so that the complaint of not enough people online to game with isn't an issue?

I bring this back up because at the moment, I am sat on the fence. I am eager to create a new character and re-enter Layo, but not if I am all alone spending the rare few hours I have available grinding dungeons repeatedly or sitting on a bench waiting for people to log on.

A lot of people ( myself included ) have mentioned having some change to the xp rate. This would be great... but as Dorg said, if there is no one ( or hardly) anyone below level 10 online to benefit from the change... then what is the point?

So I'm asking... would anyone ( old players who have left, existing players, new players) start a new character? Not when Dorg decides IF some of the above changes will take place, but NOW?
Is there even enough interest to make these changes worthwhile?
( For selfish reasons, I'm particularly interested in GMT timers )
 

Guardian 452

Re: Community Building
« Reply #163 on: August 18, 2012, 08:53:55 am »
Will I make a new character now before any changes go into affect?

No. My character slots are full and I have no desire to delete any of them at this time.
 

RollinsCat

Re: Community Building
« Reply #164 on: August 18, 2012, 09:30:58 am »
For those contemplating new characters, don't forget the Mentoring program - all the people on that list will help you with quests, getting chars into the world and connected to happenings, possibly odd jobs to help them earn True, etc - form a connection (friendly, benign, or possibly nefarious).
 

Alatriel

Re: Community Building
« Reply #165 on: August 18, 2012, 09:35:06 am »
Quote from: LordCove

So I'm asking... would anyone ( old players who have left, existing players, new players) start a new character? Not when Dorg decides IF some of the above changes will take place, but NOW?
Is there even enough interest to make these changes worthwhile?
( For selfish reasons, I'm particularly interested in GMT timers )


I'm pretty sure there's a few low-level GMT players that have characters under lvl 10 right now.  I don't know that they're always on at the same time, but I know they're there.  You could always start a new thread, but I started one a while back when trying to figure out how to schedule my quest series, and there seemed to be a decent number of GMT players.
 

Hellblazer

Re: Community Building
« Reply #166 on: August 18, 2012, 10:07:45 am »
Quote from: LordCove
I know this thread was supposed to close as per I'm going to leave it open for a few more days for those who'd like to offer suggestions about developing a stronger community. This thread will close on or around noon CDT of the 15th. .... but I wanted to hit on something Dorg asked that none seemed to answer.

If some of the difficulties that plague lower levels (i.e. level 10 or below) in our reduced server population were lessened or eliminated, would you create a new character and not worry so much about how fast you have to get to Level X for whatever reason? Similarly, would you consider coordinating with other established members (and potentially new ones) and create new characters as a group, not necessarily all affiliated (but it helps) so that the complaint of not enough people online to game with isn't an issue?

I bring this back up because at the moment, I am sat on the fence. I am eager to create a new character and re-enter Layo, but not if I am all alone spending the rare few hours I have available grinding dungeons repeatedly or sitting on a bench waiting for people to log on.

A lot of people ( myself included ) have mentioned having some change to the xp rate. This would be great... but as Dorg said, if there is no one ( or hardly) anyone below level 10 online to benefit from the change... then what is the point?

So I'm asking... would anyone ( old players who have left, existing players, new players) start a new character? Not when Dorg decides IF some of the above changes will take place, but NOW?
Is there even enough interest to make these changes worthwhile?
( For selfish reasons, I'm particularly interested in GMT timers )


Not GMT here but as a response to the idea and as I stated earlier, I would

davidhoff

Re: Community Building
« Reply #167 on: August 18, 2012, 10:38:31 am »
There's a fairly large number of existing lowbie characters around I think...they just need to be lured out with some candy.  I think having LordCove back in the game would be a huge benefit to the server; one of the best RP'rs I've seen and made me laugh more times than I can count.  I would create a new char if LC came back on.  I'd need a general theme so I don't make a char that ends up killing yours our first meet.  A set time to play once a week would be good to I think at least to get us all out at once.
 

Dorganath

Re: Community Building
« Reply #168 on: August 18, 2012, 12:06:11 pm »
Quote from: LordCove
A lot of people ( myself included ) have mentioned having some change to the xp rate. This would be great... but as Dorg said, if there is no one ( or hardly) anyone below level 10 online to benefit from the change... then what is the point?

To be accurate, I said this:

Quote from: Dorganath
I'm curious about these things, because it  won't matter how much we change if there's no buy-in from our  players.

Meaning that I could change all sorts of stuff about the low-level experience, but if none of our existing players would bother to start over again and not race up to 20th (and beyond) then it will continue to be very difficult for the new player, as this is in the context of community building.

Bear in mind, the primary reason for my question about creating new characters was that this would immediately eliminate the lack of low-level characters (with experienced players) while any changes to XP progressions/calculations are debated and implemented.

The secondary reason is to gauge the community's willingness to be part of any community building efforts rather than just waiting for something from the team. I freely acknowledge the various teams here play critical roles in the player experience, new and old.  Yet it is equally true that the community as a whole plays an arguably equally critical role.  You know the old saying: You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. I think this applies pretty strongly here.
 

mixafix

Re: Community Building
« Reply #169 on: August 18, 2012, 12:06:23 pm »
In reply to LCove
 
 As has been said there are plenty of low level pcs, and I have 2 -happy to play if they fit.
 
 I would start another PC but PC limits prevents this.
 
 So if these wont work and you needed a totally themed group  - no not under current rules.
 

mixafix

Re: Community Building
« Reply #170 on: August 18, 2012, 12:53:07 pm »
First and foremost mostly I think the server needs rewarding events, GM led or otherwise. There is just not enough going on and most of it is wishful thinking in respect of actually reaching any finishing points or even a chapter finish.
 
 Mentoring and allowing range of playing levels to increase is something, but likely unsatisfactory in the end. Anything that requires too much building, time intensive solutions or additional input from the team wont likely work, given the obvious constraints on time.
 
 So here is another wild card idea, and I keep returning to this theme in one form or another to encourage playability. This one still allows better level progress perhaps.
 
 Most players have multiple characters now. The big guy, the middle dude and my new project. With some additional ideas here and there, sure.
 
 So returning to the theme you dont need to grind out every level and with 40 to choose from the range is often too great for compatibility when trying to find someone to play with.
 
 Could this be reduced to three smaller ranges of hard to earn XP say for example
 
 lvl 12-16
 lvl 21-25
 lvl 34-38
 
 You literally fly through the rest but these levels above are hard, harder than now perhaps.
 
 The point being you still have levels and progression but these hard levels trap players within 5 levels of each other for a protracted period.
 
 Rather than a single group of five levels at some point this system will use all the current server and the dungeons within. (no changes required on that basis)
 
 Now this as has been stated by Dorg elsewhere will mess with the current xp of all current characters and that would need some player and GM support but generally the idea is push players up the way.
 
 All newish players would be level 10 or less and no issues.
 
 For the rest..
 The system can be set so that pcs do not lose levels without agreement.
 
 say for example when all is said and done a pc at lvl 35 finds himself at 34..he gets the option to be boosted to 35.
 
 (in this respect I am uncertain whether tweaking xp reward or character level xp, or a combination of both will be an easier route.)
 
 But with no real need for the 3.5 million stumble at level 21 there would be some xp distribution available to prevent too much messing with the PC XP scale.
 
 There would be issues with equipment and such for initial logging on after a change(expecially after an absence) but that has happened before and been dealt with.
 
 It would require some work initially but then would need no work, other than sorting the logging of returning PCs.
 
 It would by default bring players closer together in levels for play, yet continue to allow progress.
 
 It would work with and enhance any other solutions mooted here and so people could continue with any other ideas they had in mind.
 
 It would also blow a breath of fresh air into the game without changing too much at all. How much you tweaked level progress is perhaps another debate but the idea in this example given would be for 14-15th to be harder than 10-11. This will keep more players closer in levels.
 
 The levels in between these hard to earn levels really need to be a lot easier than the hard levels. EG level 17 - 18 needs to be even easier than 10-11...as these transient levels become lonlier places but rewarding as levels fly by to the next stage of the game at the next level trap...where friends await!
 
 This may sound like a worn record - and thats my age right, but one way or another we need people on doing things and having fun!
 

Link092

Re: Community Building
« Reply #171 on: August 18, 2012, 02:00:43 pm »
I've got two characters level 5 and 4, and another at level 10. I've never gone beyond level 12. I also have plenty of room for some more if that isn't low enough level.

Sure, I'm not on all the time, but most of the time I'm actually online, either everyone is already on a quest, busy with some dungeon run that would squash me, or there is one person on is is only there to really take care of a little business before logging off. Honestly, beyond that, there's no one online when I'm able to make some free time for layo. And occasionally I rush in when I see server status saying there's one or two people online. then I'm disappointed when I get there because they are gone.


Needless to say, at that point, I honestly don't feel like logging on with no one online and waiting, nor when there is a one or two people (whom are usually level 20 or more). Because I won't benefit from it. I could care less about the xp. I don't grind. It's against my nature. I loathe work (*cough*). And those two hours that I used to spend waiting, nowdays to me, is time I can spend playing League of Legends or DOTA 2 in some quick paced fun for a short dedicated period of time. I know that sounds bad, but at least I'm being honest.

I love layo to death. Even after I disappeared for some quality time with university, I would always have a moment where I thought "huh, wonder how layo is doing", and I'd come lurk for a day or two. I have a bit more time now, so I'm trying to be more active. Heck, I enjoyed the creation concept of characters so much, I think I went through about 10 of them. I'd play them until their concept went dry. Or in some cases, those they associated with most sky rocketed in levels, so trying to create meaningful interaction was extremely hard.

Today, I have three characters. 1, I thought it would be silly to get rid of my very first character. :U the other two I enjoy their concepts more than usual because they are both common persona's I play in regular PnP campaigns, albeit slightly different.

In regards to comments of who would benefit from any change, It's not a matter of looking at the established player base at this time. Because they're pretty much committed.  And yes, I know that we're not really going to attract a bunch of new players. But those whom we attract get left in the dust by some others, and it makes the whole experience.... not fun. If layo had a much larger and more active player base like it used to, then I wouldn't bother considering this, but at this moment, a new player should be able to pick up and run with the rest of the pack only after several days to a couple weeks of gameplay. From level 15 and up, everything is fair game the way it is. The more common places to be don't result in the murder of the character, and they are more eligible to contribute to party's traveling to further out places. Sure, I can go a lot of places as my lil' monk, or sneak just about everywhere with that silly Dark Elf, But anywhere beyond the most common places of Mistone, none of them could contribute to a party. Yes, yes. There is the Role Play perspective. But honestly, if my character has a very good chance of dying. and he/she knows it. They probably wouldn't go in the first place. It doesn't matter that there are 3 level 40's in the party. IC, they can't just go "oh hey thur, I'm totally aware that you can punch holes through adamantine walls" and assume all is well and they can travel safely with them. That just destroys immersion for me.

I'm not asking for a handout. I don't want it. But if you're wanting to keep the interest of new players and/or characters, you're gonna need a better way for them to get up to snuff. Because almost everyone else who is active, unless they have just recently created a new character, they sit anywhere from level 15 and up. This is just my observation.
 

Guardian 452

Re: Community Building
« Reply #172 on: August 18, 2012, 02:39:54 pm »
Now me saying I wouldnt delete a character in order to make a new one.... i presently have characters level 8 and 10 that can work with other low level peeps. Neither of those characters seem to be progressing anytime soon on their own.
 

Wisper.2

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    Re: Community Building
    « Reply #173 on: August 18, 2012, 05:57:58 pm »
    Well, one additional thought as for a fast track for new players. Maybe characters in your "stable" could be started at level 10 instead of level 1.
     

    Wisper.2

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      Re: Community Building
      « Reply #174 on: August 18, 2012, 10:08:19 pm »
      I wanted to expound on my previous suggestion a tiny bit, after going through the forum some.

      This is something I, myself, would love to see:

      Encourage DMs to set up regular series of casual and just-for-fun (not huge world changing campaign) quests for level 10-12-ish folk. I think that's a good point where you can take advantage of a lot of your character's class potential, and also have some survivability to explore, especially in a group.

      Using your character stable concept, the DM creates some characters who would fit perfectly with their quest, background and all, and put them in the stable for people who want to take part in the quest (label them as such, for xx quest only)

      These characters would start at a level where they could jump into the quest and the world (like I said above, maybe 10-12.) Maybe throw them a bone with the bare minimum of equipment to be useful, etc. DM supervised at the beginning of the quest, of course.

      Seek out people in other RP forums to play these characters, as well as casual players here. No applications necessary, just show up and get handed a character.

      The only caveat is that you can't play that character in the world until the quest series is over, which will also give the DM a chance to weed out any troublemakers.

      This'd get me and maybe a few NWN friends of mine playing here for sure..
       

      mixafix

      Re: Community Building
      « Reply #175 on: August 20, 2012, 07:02:27 am »
      In response to a previous point by Dorg about what players can do to help improve things...
       
       This is not particularly a player solution per se, but is an extra pair of hands in respect of what can be achieved currently.
       
       Happy to commit to ongoing building of replacement areas or refresh existing areas.
       
       Happy to do this at target levels or to particular areas of the world.
       
       Happy to do this driven by previous storylines, ongoing storylines or stories still to come  - driven by GM requests.
       
       Happy to do this driven by player action in RP outwith GM led quests. (driving change where players have driven iniatives and change might be merited whether small or big changes -all with team approval of course)
       
       Particularly happy if Chongo could/would help
       
       Particularly happy to attain and sustain a system of change that involved many people here one way or another, from GMs writing tales, to players leading plots and doing things or not doing things that have visible consequences to encounters and areas. All with a view to encouraging and retaining player involvement.
       

      Dorganath

      Re: Community Building
      « Reply #176 on: August 20, 2012, 08:15:28 am »
      Quote from: mixafix
      In response to a previous point by Dorg about what players can do to help improve things...
       
       This is not particularly a player solution per se, but is an extra pair of hands in respect of what can be achieved currently.
       
       Happy to commit to ongoing building of replacement areas or refresh existing areas.
       
       Happy to do this at target levels or to particular areas of the world.
       
       Happy to do this driven by previous storylines, ongoing storylines or stories still to come  - driven by GM requests.
       
       Happy to do this driven by player action in RP outwith GM led quests. (driving change where players have driven iniatives and change might be merited whether small or big changes -all with team approval of course)
       
       Particularly happy if Chongo could/would help
       
       Particularly happy to attain and sustain a system of change that involved many people here one way or another, from GMs writing tales, to players leading plots and doing things or not doing things that have visible consequences to encounters and areas. All with a view to encouraging and retaining player involvement.

      Actually, no, I'm not talking about an "extra pair of hands".  I was, in fact, talking about non-mechanical things that the player base can do to contribute to the community and the experience in-game.

      The fact is, we could build the most amazing, dynamic world possible, but it means nothing if players are not logging in, being accessible to low-level characters and more importantly new players.

      What I was asking about is the willingness of participation and contribution by the community right now without having to wait for an update or a change in this, that or the other.  Updates take time. A change in player patterns and behaviors can happen immediately.
       

      Aphel

      Re: Community Building
      « Reply #177 on: August 20, 2012, 09:33:40 am »
      Quote from: Dorganath
      [...] A change in player patterns and behaviors can happen immediately.

      No. They cannot happen immediately, a change of behavior pattern is a gradual change in most cases. Those players that always did a lot for the community will continue to do so, and even do more if they have the time. The rest might need some jumpstarting in terms of encouragement and help.
       

      Dorganath

      Re: Community Building
      « Reply #178 on: August 20, 2012, 09:55:07 am »
      Quote from: Aphel
      No. They cannot happen immediately, a change of behavior pattern is a gradual change in most cases. Those players that always did a lot for the community will continue to do so, and even do more if they have the time. The rest might need some jumpstarting in terms of encouragement and help.

      I did say "can", implying the potential to do so.  Even with some lag in that, it's still usually quicker than waiting for a mechanical update.

      The community can always change itself without assistance from developers or administrators. Whether it will or not depends greatly on the mindset of the individuals that make up the community.  My point in asking was to try and gauge this mindset and perhaps to get people to realize that the state of Layonara has as much to do with them as it does with the developers, GMs and admins.
       

      jadewillow

      Re: Community Building
      « Reply #179 on: August 20, 2012, 08:01:10 pm »
      This thread may be worn out, but another thing that would help keep existing pcs and attract new ones are some new classes. At the very least tweak the under powered ones like sacred fist and bear warrior