Do Familiars Talk?

[Doc-Holiday]

FAAAAHH!

Zucker!.. READ

Layonara's rules are diffrent... that being that the only two familiar who can talk are the ones listed...

This isn't DnD

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

I understand, Doc, just making a half-question, half-suggestion.

I really think the one word per HD (perhaps plus the caster or familiar's INT bonus) would be a pretty sweet RP device, and there's pretty decent precedent for birds to be able to learn a LIMITED vocabulary.

[Dorganath]

Gah!
  Going by D&D rules a Raven woud speak one language but that is a special ability, not a characteristic of the species in particular.  NWN replaces this RP-ish ability with something else. In this, I believe the Raven is a bit ambiguous, but clearly we cannot just pick and choose between what NWN gives and what PnP rules would give when it suits us to do so, which would in effect be a combination of the best of both. I'm afraid I can concoct no official stance on that question.
  If you wan my personal opinion, I would lean far more heavily toward a Raven not being able to "speak" at all or perhaps be able to appropriately use a small vocabulary of words in correct context (1-2/level) rather than have a bird be able to carry on full conversations in perfect Common/Elvish/Whateverish.  Even then, there's be a lot of trust put into the players to keep that vocabulary properly sized to the same dozen or so words rather than choosing those dozen or so words as convenient.  The cyinic in me says there'd be plenty of people who abuse the limited vocabulary, and so then I'd lean back toward no speaking at all. If it were my campaign, this would be the "house rule", regardless of what the handbook says. A Raven is an animal, a smart animal, but still an animal.  Communicating with a wizard as a familiar is one thing...communicating to Joe Character is another, in my opinion.
  Sorry, that's not really clarifying, but it's the best I can do.
  On a personal note, I find this proverbial hair to be very finely split by now. As with most things, a dash of common sense goes a long way.

[Lalaith Va'lash]

"But the raven, sitting lonely on the placid bust, spoke only, That one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour. Nothing further then he uttered - not a feather then he fluttered - Till I scarcely more than muttered `Other friends have flown before - On the morrow will he leave me, as my hopes have flown before.' Then the bird said, `Nevermore.' " - Edgar Allan Poe
   http://www.heise.de/ix/raven/Literature/Lore/TheRaven.html
  hehe, sorry Dorg, I couldn't resist. But this is what I thought of when reading all about these talking Ravens.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Lalaith Va'lash - 2/14/2007  10:12 PM    
  "But the raven, sitting lonely on the placid bust, spoke only, That one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour. Nothing further then he uttered - not a feather then he fluttered - Till I scarcely more than muttered `Other friends have flown before - On the morrow will he leave me, as my hopes have flown before.' Then the bird said, `Nevermore.' " - Edgar Allan Poe
   http://www.heise.de/ix/raven/Literature/Lore/TheRaven.html
  hehe, sorry Dorg, I couldn't resist.  But this is what I thought of when reading all about these talking Ravens.

  Ditto.

[Jearick Hgar]

Lalaith Va'lash - 2/14/2007  7:12 PM    
  "But the raven, sitting lonely on the placid bust, spoke only, That one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour. Nothing further then he uttered - not a feather then he fluttered - Till I scarcely more than muttered `Other friends have flown before - On the morrow will he leave me, as my hopes have flown before.' Then the bird said, `Nevermore.' " - Edgar Allan Poe
   http://www.heise.de/ix/raven/Literature/Lore/TheRaven.html
  hehe, sorry Dorg, I couldn't resist.  But this is what I thought of when reading all about these talking Ravens.

 that's one of my fav poems of allt ime =D.     But on a differ note. i didn't read the MM before posting and blah, guess Psuedos don't talk, but i'm glad Fairy dragons can. That's pretty much all i was pushing for.  I also agree that Ravens might be able to say a few words, and i think it's safe to trust the player community with rping that, especially if someone started a full fledged convo with their familiar someone woudl send them a tell about it. i know iw ould =D

[Witch Hunter]

Dorganath - 2/14/2007  1:35 PM    

Witch Hunter - 2/14/2007  3:31 PM  "Telepathy (Su) Pseudodragons can communicate telepathically with creatures that speak Common or Sylvan, provided they are within 60 feet. "
    So it is capable of speaking with the caster via telepathy? (I mean a one way conversation, the caster can't use telepathy to converse back)

 Written by me just above your post:

Now, to put the clamps on anyone who picks up on the telepathic communication mentioned here, there is no telepathy in Layonara for PCs, and it should not be RPed at all, whether directly or through their familiars.

 To say yet again, familiars can communicate through an empathic link with the wizard/sorcerer. 

  But you stated "for pcs" - are familiars considered a PC?

[Weeblie]

Every player controlled creature is under that rule.

The only time it might be allowed would be on a DM quest when the DM explicitily tell you that it's allowed (say... the High Lich of Nastiness has broken into your mind and he's talking with you in that way!).

[Dorganath]

Witch Hunter - 2/15/2007  1:30 AM  

Dorganath - 2/14/2007  1:35 PM    

Witch Hunter - 2/14/2007  3:31 PM  "Telepathy (Su) Pseudodragons can communicate telepathically with creatures that speak Common or Sylvan, provided they are within 60 feet. "
    So it is capable of speaking with the caster via telepathy? (I mean a one way conversation, the caster can't use telepathy to converse back)

 Written by me just above your post:

Now, to put the clamps on anyone who picks up on the telepathic communication mentioned here, there is no telepathy in Layonara for PCs, and it should not be RPed at all, whether directly or through their familiars.

 To say yet again, familiars can communicate through an empathic link with the wizard/sorcerer.
 

  But you stated "for pcs" - are familiars considered a PC?

 *sighs* I also said, "whether directly or through their familiars".
  Please do not look for the loopholes on this any further. Your character's familiar is an extension of your character. By possessing or speaking through said familiar, it becomes a PC as well. Now...once more with emphasis...
  There is no telepathy in Layonara.
  As a player, it is not permitted to use telepathy in any way.
  And in case anyone else wants to start playing "what if" on this particular issue, I suggest you read this first.

[Eight-Bit]

I've found it to be very difficult to actually pull of a Familiar talking without it being hokey or just silly. Certain people, who shall remain nameless because it's 9am and I'm tired, have played a talking familiar in the past rather well. I was impressed, listening, and RPing back. However, most of the time, flying around a random PC in circles and talking in a cutsie voice is just bothersome. To me, at least. I've always found the provided sound effects and emotes to a statement a character said to be much more entertaining.

[drakogear]

Ok, old thread though do believe there are missing posts such as latest comments to this thread. Not sure if I actually posted to here before or not but if so the the latest would be dated to sometime this year.

Anyways, about the bit on talking ravens? I managed to dig up some info on ravens from the Wikipedia site.

Common Raven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scroll down to where it mentions intelligence and vocalization.

Ravers are in fact quite intelligent birds, almost the most intelligent of all birds not to mention very clever tricksters. Makes for good rping opportunities for raven owners.

In addition, ravens can speak but only through mimicry like parrots. Though said they can also mimic other sounds too.

Oh, and ummm, people might want to be careful flipping coins when ravens are near... shiny round object might end up getting taken and stashed away some where.

Note: all that was said were references to what is mentioned on Wiki. :p

[Dorganath]

Ravens do not speak in Layonara.  

They can squawk, make a variety of sounds and show other signs of animal-level intelligence, but they do not speak.

[drakogear]

Ravens do not speak in Layonara.  

They can squawk, make a variety of sounds and show other signs of animal-level intelligence, but they do not speak.

Geez, you guys are just so determined about that. Can't even allow the very minor level of mimicry witch in a since is still non to very low intelligent speaking. Frankly its just saying something that one heard with out even knowing what it means and in an animals mimicry it would be no more than one or two words.

Oh well, at least we can still use the rest of the ravens known intelligence. Clever trickster, problem solving, ect.

[Dorganath]

I understand your points, but sadly, in the past, there have been people who did not understand or respect the boundaries of the animal's capabilities, and combined with the depictions of familiars in some genre films and books and things, and sadly we've had people having their familiars and companions speaking in full, articulated sentences that went beyond the intelligence and capability of the animal. "Mimicry" eventually turns into a full vocabulary.

So yes, we're determined about that. It doesn't matter what D&D or Wikipedia or Harry Potter or Edgar Allen Poe says/said about ravens or any other animal. Our lore is that they do not speak.

There are plenty more ways to portray a creature's intelligence.  For full disclosure, my main character is a sorcerer with a pseudodragon familiar.  The creature has never "spoken" but instead uses the sounds it can produce to portray things like basic emotions, inquisitiveness and the like.  So there's plenty of creative ways to portray an animal's intelligence without having words come out of its mouth.