EDITED: Question regarding Challenge Ratings

[Mr. Tee]

I really like the Layonara server and all, but I have one question.

I know this server is meant to be really difficult, meant mostly for partying up, I just cannot decipher what a "Moderate" challenge rating means anymore. My character has 4 levels of barbarian, level 5 overall, an attack bonus of +6, 53 HP, AC of 20, and I'm still getting my head handed to me by one single elite goblin who is considered "Moderate", he must therefore be level 2 or 3 with about 20 HP. How is this possible?

I'm not a powergamer by any means, which means any character I build is going to be quite flawed (I tend to take feats for RP reasons like, say, Iron Will if I make a character that is persistent). However I'm beginning to feel like the only way I can ever defend myself is if I sink every point into STR and take Cleave/Great Cleave/Knockdown/You-name-that-combat-feat.

On the other hand, I see plenty of non-melee warriors out there travelling solo, they seem to be doing well, not getting killed nearly as often as I do. So how do you all keep your head on your shoulders? Carry tons of healing potions all the time?

Anyway, I'm not even considering leaving this server because it is just too darn good , but I almost think I should consider making another character, typical fighter that has no problem in combat... I find this very boring indeed and would rather not. Any ideas?

[General_Ski]

A. party up. B. you need to get yourself better ac. I have a level 7 fighter who is wearing copper plate, and his ac is 20, since this fighter does not use shield. He is still very hittable by goblins, as well as kobolds (which are effortless at this point). The mobs of cobolds have a very good chance of slaughtering him, if the mob is big enough and rolls high enough. However in a party of 2 - 4 characters these mobs are effortless, in fact so are the mobs of regular ogres and other non-insect creatures.

[Vyris]

Howdy,

I have a typical fighter, and he gets his head handed to him quite regularly when he is solo. The 'trick' is to find a group of people to RP and group up with. We (You and I) Have a real good start on that already with your character and Breg, find me in game an we can team up. I'll show you around Mistone a bit while we collect CNR items, we'll have fun, and the RP will be the best part of it all.

Never be afraid to jump in somewhere with your RP, and trust me, in a few levels you'll be beating the snot out of the elite goblins. By then we'll have you terrified of something else.

Vyris

About partying up, I do that almost all the time, that's not the problem. It's when everyone else seems busy. You just can't merely go into a crowd and say "Anyone want to party up to fight some goblins?", it has to be RPed, and sometimes, people have other things they'd rather do.

Second thing, how do I increase my AC? The best armor you can buy so far that I've seen is Copper Full Plate. I can only wear medium armor, so Chain Mail it is, plus a shield, I unfortunately don't see any way of further increasing my AC...

[Marswipp]

Dexterity is one way. :|

(edit: 'the' changed to 'one'.)

[Mr. Tee]

Whoops, forgot to log in...

The tone of the above "Guest" post came out all wrong, I didn't mean to sound like I was complaining . What I meant to say was that I realize this is a Party server, and I act accordingly nearly all of the time. I was merely curious as too what Moderate means on this server... Whether or not it meant I can take on one of these "Moderate" creatures alone.

PS: Ah Breg! Hehe, I hope he's still up to no good on those alchemist tables

[Vyris]

Copper is the 'least' metal, after that there is Iron, platinum, etc, etc.

A tower shield gives you +3 AC, dunno if that fits in your RP or not, or if you know that alreay.

There are items that can be found in the game that grant you X/day usage of usefull defensive spells, seek them out.

There are items that are reletively easy to aquire that have an AC bonus to them. Items that normally wouldn't increase your AC.

Just don't be too frustrated by the lower levels, it IS a struggle sometimes.

As far as just throwing yourself into a group... If you put out there that you want to do 'X' and they were just leaving to do 'Y', be flexible, and go do 'Y' with them.

Vyris

[Mr. Tee]

Sound advise. Thank you very much, I look forward to seeing what Breg is up to these days.

[GhostWhoWalks]

The Challenge ratings are based off an average party of 3-4.
  So if it says moderate to you, chances are you should have at least 1 or 2 other people for it to be moderate.
  There are exceptions that are able to be killed alone, like a mage is often less dangerous 1:1 than say an orc with a great axe, because the mage will have fewer HP and if you can get to them quick you can end them quick.
    Things like that, it's very much dependant on your class. But for the most part we tried to use averages as much as possible.

[miltonyorkcastle]

just for reference, I play a crazy merc (fighter type, good damage, low HP due to mage levels)who is just as likely to run solo as he is to hitch with a party.  I've discovered that he (who can get his AC into the 30's with the feat Expertise and the 'uber helmet') can usually solo one enemy that has a rating of 'challenging' if he gets decent rolls on the d20.  that means he usually runs from as often as he kills challenging opponents.  If the rating is moderate, he can usually solo about 4-6, but once again, that is on a good roll of the d20.  As a 12th level character I have died soloing less than ten 'easy' opponents (bleamin' fireballs....).  Basically, if you solo, prepare to run or die, or both.  One bad roll on the d20 can crush you, and with no one to save your butt, you have nowhere to go but down.

[Etinfall]

Quote, "Basically, if you solo, prepare to run or die, or both. One bad roll on the d20 can crush you, and with no one to save your butt, you have nowhere to go but down."

Ih those are your only 2 options, run or die, then you maybe should find a group. Dieing should not be part of your strategy. In by book it isn't is what I mean.

[Diamondedge]

Yea. Turor, the goblin-hatin', drow-spittin' dwarf gets his butt handed to him constantly. If it wasn't for potions, I dare say he'd never have mined a nugget of copper in his life.

But as you progress, you realize, hey, it ain't so bad after all. Just wait till you hit level 15 and can wear/wield top-notch stuff. You'll be a force to be reckoned with and all will fear/respect you.

Except me. Unless you're a dwarf. *nod*

[Variable]

Vyris - 8/4/2005  7:25 PM

There are items that can be found in the game that grant you X/day usage of usefull defensive spells, seek them out.

There are items that are reletively easy to aquire that have an AC bonus to them. Items that normally wouldn't increase your AC.

These are really useful if you are not a spellcaster, also, if you have a spellcaster with you he/she can greatly increase your AC with spells.

[NEXUS7]

Come and find Spugly Fugley we will always go a huntin Goblins
(and works part time as a for hire body gard)

[Mr. Tee]

You see, this is why I really like this server. Ask a question, and twenty people jump right in to help you out

I now understand the meaning of Moderate, (and I also very much appreciated everyone's helpful hints).

I'm actually happy to see that the challenge rating does in fact go beyond merely "Moderate" or "Challenging", but it also stems from creature appearances and types. As Variable pointed out, a "Moderate" Ogre is a more feared opponent than a "Moderate" goblin. I think this adds just a little bit more great RP value, and makes it a little hard to merely examine a creature and say "I can easily defeat that".

[Scipio]

Most of the people who are soloing probably have summons. I know that your fighter would squish either of my characters in a straight fight but they can summon friends to kill you while they smoke a cigarette. If you don't have summons ability, you probably need to stay in a group.

[Zhofe]

I can't summon a thing and I solo all the time ...

'course, I have 6 death tokens .. but 5 of those were from being in groups ...

[Diamondedge]

Yea, I'd have to agree with Zippy. I have had so many problems with groups... I hate fighting in large groups because nobody listens to you. There are a few characters that I'll never group with again because they don't just 'not listen' to anyone, they blatantly state that 'Shut up, I'm here to kill not fall into some kind of ordered disciplinary military maneuver that eliminates danger in this fight'... and I state '*kicks the egotistical snot-nosed moron in the nuts and kills an ogre, hiding behind his body like a shield'.

Soloing can be the key to some great XP, if you can handle it. But there's no RP unless you're like me and slowly walk toward a goblin shaman, letting him hit you with rays of frost... "Aye, thah's roight, ye little buggahr... mek me all cold an' frosty... an' when ahm doon killin' ye, ah'll eat yer heart fer warmth." Or, y'know... "*cackles* Ye sure ye warna tumble, Greenie?"

[Ar7]

I actually learned not to pay much attention to the challenge rating, well sure I check them out, but I don't do any conclusion before I have seen the enemy in battle. This is simply because there are effortless creatures that are way more difficult than impossible ones. This is of course dependant on character class and the size of the party...but nevertheless...hope you understood what I meant.