The World of Layonara

The Layonara Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: orth on April 23, 2006, 11:46:33 am

Title: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: orth on April 23, 2006, 11:46:33 am
As we near the campaign end and we push on with the magical world we've all helped create, we come to a set of crossroads for the future of our second (or in some cases, first) home.  For those of you who deeply care about where all these fantastical stories are forming, there is indeed a much more elaborate future, perhaps even beyond your wildest dreams.

This future extends well beyond NWN2, even beyond a computer game, to paths you may not have even considered.  The massive volunteer effort over the years and the persistent dedication by our World Creator has opened realms to pursue that even Leanthar could have never dreamed of.

It is at these crossroads where I'm finding myself taking another route, pursuing an exciting future that will expend many of my energies. It is at this moment where I hand the torch over to the fully capable hands of Dorganath to manage the remaining days of NWN1.  My presence as a developer here fades for the time being, my focus moves to alternate pursuits and roles for Layonara.

With that said, the transition to NWN2 will be something I will get deeply  involved with to help things go as smooth and painless as possible.  The planned September release date for Bioware, plus the inevitable time to get a world up to speed with our vision will probably mean a target of Jan/07 for Layonara NWN2.  NWN1 will continue to exist over this period of time and perhaps overlap, until we start phasing out servers as the community and modules are no longer actively maintained.

The decision on character wipes or character transitions from NWN2 has not been solidified, we are examining every possible route but we've yet to come to a conclusion on the best path and feel there is no need to rush at it quite yet, especially with this campaign yet to end.

Now, the community needs to be well aware that the ability to maintain the level of world you've come to enjoy so much on NWN2 will require a lot of costs.  The confidence that it's worth our time and effort over this period will be increased with any donations you can provide to help offset the high costs of hardware and server fees running the world.  It would be a sad shame to spend months  developing and Leanthar just not being able to afford to serve the world.  More details on how you can help with this will be coming soon.

We can't guarantee any of this is set in stone, life has a strange way of twisting and turning, but these our are best plans.  I am confident that Layonara can be a part of many of our lives, beyond a game... in essence it's own genre.

Sound exciting?  Stay tuned...
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Harlas Ravelkione on April 23, 2006, 12:00:20 pm
*nods* Sounds very exciting. Donations will be made.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Doc-Holiday on April 23, 2006, 12:04:02 pm
ANTICIPATION!

*explodes*
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Thak on April 23, 2006, 12:04:17 pm
Tease ;)
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: miltonyorkcastle on April 23, 2006, 12:09:23 pm
Count me in.  I'm already setting aside moneys to help Layonara in the future.  Whatever road Layo takes, I'll be here to travel down it.
Title: RE: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: crazedgoblin on April 23, 2006, 12:22:15 pm
I will be donating cash soon but just one question, will we have to start our characters again or will theybe transferd?
Title: RE: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: OneST8 on April 23, 2006, 12:30:02 pm
Quote
crazedgoblin - 4/23/2006  3:22 PM

I will be donating cash soon but just one question, will we have to start our characters again or will theybe transferd?



Quote
orth:

The decision on character wipes or character transitions from NWN2 has not been solidified, we are examining every possible route but we've yet to come to a conclusion on the best path and feel there is no need to rush at it quite yet, especially with this campaign yet to end.
Title: RE: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: crazedgoblin on April 23, 2006, 12:30:52 pm
ah yes *slaps self with wet fish*
Title: RE: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Weeblie on April 23, 2006, 12:32:47 pm
Niiiiice!

Quote
orth - 4/23/2006  8:46 PM

The decision on character wipes or character transitions from NWN2 has not been solidified, we are examining every possible route but we've yet to come to a conclusion on the best path and feel there is no need to rush at it quite yet, especially with this campaign yet to end.


Edit: Gaaah! Too slow... *sighs*
Title: RE: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Ar7 on April 23, 2006, 12:43:58 pm
Sounds very exciting, though I still don't like the possible wipe *sighs* but it is not for me to decide.
Title: RE: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Philosopher on April 23, 2006, 01:03:32 pm
Ohhhh....OHHHHH! *Excited gasps all around*

NWN2...I'll try to set aside some money for it, but I'll probably won't beable to play it for long...as I have to save for university fees and buy several things for college next year. I have a job but I'll see what I can do ;)
But when I'm at university, I doubt I will beable to play Layo NWN 2 at all, as I also have internet fees which will cost a bomb to play NWN2 online. When I get back from Uni? Who knows! I'll probably have my degree by then, I'll get a better job and back to Layo :P
Will it last that long though....? I sure hope it does...
Title: RE: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Gulnyr on April 23, 2006, 01:04:20 pm
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Ar7 - 4/23/2006  3:43 PM

Sounds very exciting, though I still don't like the possible wipe *sighs* but it is not for me to decide.

That's what I would have said, had I said it instead of Ar7.  It's kind of sad thinking of losing Jennara before I feel like I've finished developing her.

But huzzah for exciting futures.
Title: RE: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Honora on April 23, 2006, 01:06:06 pm
Layo is set as a monthly payment for us.  We used to send more money to Sony for a lot less fun.

Looking forward to NWN 2!

Honora and Laldiien
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Filatus on April 23, 2006, 03:50:25 pm
*smiles* I can wait until 2007 or later for the NWN 2 conversion. That's plenty of time to develop one's character.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: SuperMunch on April 23, 2006, 03:59:21 pm
*pulls out credit card and types in the numbers, a shame I'm not logged into paypal*

A few months delay is good, games usually take 3-4 months to hit brazilian shelves (except Civ4, it took 3 weeks).

You guys managed a fantastic world with a fantastic player base, and whatever twist things take, you can count me in.

BTW, a character wipe wouldn't be that bad for me, then I'd start another character with 25% less caffeine.  I might even start a paladin, who knows?  :D Then again bards in the 3.5 rules got a lot better...
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: _M_O_B_ on April 23, 2006, 05:03:33 pm
Although I havn't been playing Layo that long, I'm in for the NWN2 version, Layo is simply the best PW I've ever been on (I've been on a few)
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: dekard on April 23, 2006, 05:05:51 pm
i agree, layo tops ALL other PWs ive ever played on.  Im looking forward to seeing it on NWN2, its going to be worth the wait.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Doc-Holiday on April 23, 2006, 09:20:00 pm
All I can say....

Son of Weston....


MU HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *cough, choke, gasp*
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: s0ulz on April 24, 2006, 12:00:23 am
Quote
Doc-Holiday - 4/24/2006  7:20 AM

All I can say....

Son of Weston....


MU HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *cough, choke, gasp*


Hmmm.... yes. I agree.. son of Weston...

Anyhow... sounds very exciting and hopefully things will only get better with NWN2.

Godspeed to the coders!
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Eight-Bit on April 24, 2006, 12:10:29 am
Can I send money orders? I do not keep checks, and paypal kind of freaks me out.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: OneST8 on April 24, 2006, 01:11:13 am
Yeppers! The big guy does indeed accepts money orders. All the info you should need for that can be found on the Donations (http://www.layonaraonline.com/donate.asp) page!
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Nyralotep on April 24, 2006, 01:17:07 am
Very cool news!
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Eight-Bit on April 24, 2006, 01:34:12 am
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OneST8 - 4/24/2006 4:11 AM Yeppers! The big guy does indeed accepts money orders. All the info you should need for that can be found on the Donations (http://../../donate.asp) page!
 Car insurance is paid off for the rest of the year, so I will donate some of the moneyI put aside for a new guitar. I've gotten as much, if not more glee from Layo than I have my instruments, and you can't just run to the store and pick up something like Layonara.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: xXDenizeNXx on April 24, 2006, 11:13:10 am
amen to that brother 8 bit. Only thing thats a downer about nwn 2 is I heard a rumour it is only going to be supporting up to level 20?? any truth to that rumour do any of you know?
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Ar7 on April 24, 2006, 11:14:09 am
There will probably be an "epic expansion", same thing happened to NWN.
Title: RE: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Dorganath on April 24, 2006, 11:19:31 am
NWN2 will only support up to level 20 at release time. Expansions, while likely if they follow the NWN1 example, are purely speculative at this time.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Eight-Bit on April 24, 2006, 11:37:14 am
Quote
Eight-Bit - 4/24/2006 4:34 AM  
Quote
OneST8 - 4/24/2006 4:11 AM Yeppers! The big guy does indeed accepts money orders. All the info you should need for that can be found on the Donations (http://../../donate.asp) page!
 Car insurance is paid off for the rest of the year, so I will donate some of the moneyI put aside for a new guitar. I've gotten as much, if not more glee from Layo than I have my instruments, and you can't just run to the store and pick up something like Layonara.
 
 Actually, in retropsectI DID just run to the store, buy NWN, and pick up Layonara. Oh well. :D I have plenty extra this, and next week, so I'll send a money order next thursday.
Title: RE: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Yllyrryon on April 24, 2006, 11:44:13 am
I'm with you guys all the way.  :)
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Shadowblade225 on April 24, 2006, 02:11:13 pm
Guess I'm probably one of the few who wouldn't object to the character wipe. Seeing NWN2 take place in the "next age" where our characters are read or sung about in taverns, made out as legends for their deeds, and the great war with Bloodstone has been over for a thousand years or more, whereby another cataclysm has taken place changing the face of the world (to accomdidate the NWN2 game features), etc., etc., etc... would be cool.  Even if the NWN2 version goes up in 1/07 that's still 9 months away.  Alot can happen to a character in that time.  It'd be a while for the expansions to come out and therefore at least lvl wise the characters would have to be adjusted.  I'd just prefer the wipe allowing you to start a fresh new character in a fresh new world even though technically it's the same world.  Course Ozymandias would be alive either way - he'd be a heck of an NPC.  And if your character is an elf - he/she may be alive as well..who knows. But whatever the team decides *shrugs* I'm fine with. I can see it the other way as well.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: feniox on April 24, 2006, 02:22:53 pm
I'm not really against the idea of a character wipe, though I can see why some people are, considering the amount of time and love that go into getting the characters where they are, especially the level 30-ish ones.

I know I'd miss Kurgaz though, and it wouldn't feel right playing another Dwarf after him, so I'd most likely have to come up with something completely new :)
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: ZeroVega on April 24, 2006, 04:57:28 pm
Honestly, I'd prefer a wipe as well. I enjoyed seeing the Plot (though I hardly took part in it) slowly progress and become increasingly difficult as the characters gained levels. Blood came back under shady circumstances, weakened. He didn't know the power that the people of Layonara had and if he'd went all out on his assault from the beginning he may have gotten somewhere, but now he's waited too long and let the heroes get a foothold. Besides, I'd like to get back to the old days, when level 10 is an accomplishment, when everyone travels with anyone they can find, and when crafting was still a business (and necessity) and not a hobby.

Sweetness either way though. ZV-
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Shadowblade225 on April 24, 2006, 06:30:41 pm
Quote
ZeroVega - 4/24/2006 7:57 PM I'd like to get back to the old days, when level 10 is an accomplishment, when everyone travels with anyone they can find, and when crafting was still a business (and necessity) and not a hobby. Sweetness either way though. ZV-
 
  Yep - ditto. Lvl 20's are a dime a dozen now - but we'll see what happens. Either way - I personally can't wait. I'd imagine a ton of old players would make a comeback. It'd be nice to see them again.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Doc-Holiday on April 24, 2006, 06:46:58 pm
Bah...

no one remebers Weston...

Represetitive and spokesman for all sentient surface races... yes... chosen democraticly as well... to save us all from Illithids

funny though... they just couldn't seem to get a fix on his mind...
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Zelda1 on April 24, 2006, 07:01:16 pm
itchy...feels like when your 3k from leveling and you have to log.. :D  but that's a good thing! Can't wait for NWN2!!
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Icurus on April 24, 2006, 11:30:00 pm
I guess I may be the only person not really excited about NWN2. One, I already own NWN and Expansions and have a cool world like Layonara to run on with all their Hacks and other tidbits. Two, I've heard from a friend who is actually a great NWN world builder (and I'd probably still be playing his world if he wasn't such a tool) that it wasn't going to support tile sets, so all these cool little Elven cities, interiors, and what have you, couldn't be done. Of course, that was a year ago that he read that to me (may have changed). Three, it seems we're paying for a game that's going backwards (lvl limits, no prestege class, not to mention all the improvements/haks many different people made to NWN). Four, spending more money for something that, if broken, seems people have pretty much fixed for their own worlds.

So, I'm a bit bummed.

It would be nice if people could at least bring over one of their characters to Layonara NWN2, but nothing under 10th, 12th, or whatever the creators wanted. Characters that are important to the player and whom the player has put time into and value. Especially since crafting is such a pain in the rump. *shrugs*
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Ar7 on April 25, 2006, 12:54:48 am
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ZeroVega - 4/24/2006  4:57 PM

Honestly, I'd prefer a wipe as well. I enjoyed seeing the Plot (though I hardly took part in it) slowly progress and become increasingly difficult as the characters gained levels. Blood came back under shady circumstances, weakened. He didn't know the power that the people of Layonara had and if he'd went all out on his assault from the beginning he may have gotten somewhere, but now he's waited too long and let the heroes get a foothold. Besides, I'd like to get back to the old days, when level 10 is an accomplishment, when everyone travels with anyone they can find, and when crafting was still a business (and necessity) and not a hobby.

Sweetness either way though. ZV-


*chuckles* You do know that the good old times can never come back. I do know that the wipe will most likely happen, there is simply no way a new campaign can begin otherwise, since epics can not be implemented and a lot of years will pass etc etc.

Icurus, the game is not going backwards, as far as I know NWN2 will already feature all of the races and a LOT of prestige classes.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Belecthor on April 25, 2006, 04:43:43 am
I´m also for a wipe, but then again I not one of thoose guys that´ve played til epic. But it seems a really groovie thing to do, clean out all n start over. What a great experience that´ll be I say..!
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Faldred on April 25, 2006, 04:51:49 am
Quote
Icurus - 4/25/2006  2:30 AM

I've heard from a friend who is actually a great NWN world builder (and I'd probably still be playing his world if he wasn't such a tool) that it wasn't going to support tile sets, so all these cool little Elven cities, interiors, and what have you, couldn't be done. Of course, that was a year ago that he read that to me (may have changed).


Everything I've read says that tile sets are still used indoors.  It's only outdoors that tile sets won't be used, and this is being touted as an improvement, not a drawback.  Outdoor landscapes will be "painted" rather than tiled, which should give them a much more organic look.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: SuperMunch on April 25, 2006, 05:23:13 am
Icurus, I feel your pain, but you're forgetting a few things...

January is 9 months away and a NWN2 version of Layonara might require more than 4 months of work (think of all the custom content, tilesets, CNR, etc.) to get it up to speed to the cool world we know.

By then, with the soul mother back, lots and lots of characters will be perm'd - especially the higher level ones, the probable reason for the Soul Mother's forced vacation in the first place (I speculate, of course).  By then Freldo and his, by then, best-buddy-in-the-world Grympint might have been perm'd and we'll be playing new characters, who knows.

As Orth pointed out, the team will still develop the world even with the world plot resolved (for better or for worse) so something new will appear to keep the world moving and when the shattering of Layonara (NWN) happens to make room for New Layonara (NWN2), if handled well, the change over wouldn't be a bad cliché.  Our characters, if of appropriate level and prestige, might even have their names in the Hall of Heroes in Pranzis (or some place else) or on places that were important to them.

Another thing, a wipe is actually good at a few aspects, look at how much housing and powerful items held by retired players.  If the characters are allowed to transition, the retired players might come back and demand their houses and all the powerful items they had which would certainly unbalance the system.  Don't forget that Layonara's balance is what makes it so fun to play - you can't solo in high (as in relative to your level) profit regions.

Nine months is a long time and I'm sure the Dev Crew will find a way to make the transition as smooth and cool as possible as they have done so far.  I guess that the world plot is coming to a conclusion because of NWN2 but also because Leanthar has a new fat wad of aces up his sleeve (if his cash holds up and permits him to have a shirt with sleeves).

I now digress and venture into the realm of pure speculation...  Bioware has never alienated their user base, I'm sure they're working VERY hard to make the NWN2 development base just as active and passionate as the NWN one.  Which makes me pretty sure we'll be informed of the New Layonara (NWN2) whenever they're allowed to talk about it.  *nudge, nudge, wink, wink*
Title: RE: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Dorganath on April 25, 2006, 05:53:46 am
Let's all keep in mind a couple of things:
  1) NWN2 isnt released yet, so what it will and will not do, other than what has been explicitly confirmed by Obsidian, is at this point speculative and subject to change. Exterior-wise, we should be able to make very rich exterior areas that eclipse what we've done with the NWN1 engine. Interior-wise, we'll have to wait and see what's available, but I'm sure the limitations will not be overly severe at release, and as the overall community creates additional interior tilesets, geography features, etc., I'm certain Layonara will take advantage of these things as well.
  2) If and when Layonara goes to NWN2, Layonara will in many ways be a different world. Oh the major geography will be the same, but things have a habit of changing after a major war. It isn't like our characters will go to sleep one night, then wake up the next morning in a new, visually stunning environment. There'll be a new campaign...new problems, new challenges, etc. I don't think that NWN2 should be looked at as a step backward. Despite what it may/may not support out-of-the-box, NWN2 also represents some very appealing possibilities, ones which overall will outweigh the few short-comings that the game may have at launch.
  It's important also to clarify that whatever decision we make regarding character wipes will be directly related to how we design the setting, what kinds of systems we can have in place, and probably most importantly, what the starting (game) year will be. Whatever your personal feelings about NWN2 or character wipes or whatever may be, understand that the GM and development teams have the best interests of the community in sight, and we will ultimately act in the way that makes the most sense for Layonara and the community as a whole. Once we actually have the game in-hand and we begin to work with it, we'll be able to know more, and I'm certain we'll keep the community up-to-date, as appropriate.  
  Having said all that, I'm personnaly very pleased and encouraged by the show of enthusiasm here in this thread, and I am very excited about all of the possibilities that are ahead of us.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Leanthar on April 25, 2006, 06:20:34 am
"....By then, with the soul mother back, lots and lots of characters will be perm'd - especially the higher level ones, the probable reason for the Soul Mother's forced vacation in the first place (I speculate, of course)...."

That is incorrect on a few levels. She left for her reason and they were successful, something everybody will find out about eventually rest assured. I also pulled her out so that we could run military battles with Blood for a few months without a chance of getting DT's. I did this so that players could have fun, explore the world more, spread out etc. without that fear of DT's.  It was NOT done for 'higher levels'.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: SuperMunch on April 25, 2006, 06:33:20 am
Quote
It was NOT done for 'higher levels'.


So there really was a reason for the Soul Mother to be gone...  I thought it was a running gag that she was on vacation - sort of like when the server reboots at the Leilon Arms and folks blame an especially strong bottle of ale.  Goes to show how much I really paid attention.  :)

Anyway I just speculated because, in my mind, if a streak of REALLY bad luck happened to fall on us, it would be a bunch of newbies taking on Blood's armies.  *grins*

*bows and runs away in shame for poking the Master*
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: LordCove on April 25, 2006, 08:30:42 am
Whatever the Layo Team decide will be fine by me. I know I will be camping outside the Computer shop on NWN2's release, and will try to be one of the first to explore the new world( Layonara, not the actual game). I dont even play NWN's now, just Layonara.
Character wipes are fine by me, reset everyone to zero. I know this sounds bad for people who have had characters for years, but remember all the fun you had building them up. Wouldnt you want to do it again?
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: EdTheKet on April 29, 2006, 03:35:31 am
Quote
I thought it was a running gag that she was on vacation
And she wouldn't have been temporarily gone if the ECDQ that revolved around this had been a failure.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Grid Blader on April 29, 2006, 07:53:00 am
With the soul mother gone, I went to place with Q I would not dare to go before.  Thank L.  Now a full charter wipe would be OK with me.  All the fun was building him that high up in levels.  Maybe some of the epics will become story lines, maybe some will become npc, who knows.  That is a little ways off, and all of us should be having fun with are charters now.  I know I am.  Can not wait to see the new world :).
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Anodynes on June 05, 2006, 12:31:41 pm
Quote
Dorganath - 4/25/2006  8:53 AM    Let's all keep in mind a couple of things:
  1) NWN2 isnt released yet, so what it will and will not do, other than what has been explicitly confirmed by Obsidian, is at this point speculative and subject to change.
  It's important also to clarify that whatever decision we make regarding character wipes will be directly related to how we design the setting, what kinds of systems we can have in place, and probably most importantly, what the starting (game) year will be.  Whatever your personal feelings about NWN2 or character wipes or whatever may be, understand that the GM and development teams have the best interests of the community in sight, and we will ultimately act in the way that makes the most sense for Layonara and the community as a whole. Once we actually have the game in-hand and we begin to work with it, we'll be able to know more, and I'm certain we'll keep the community up-to-date, as appropriate.  
 FYI. First, NWN2 will be based on the DnD 3.5 ruleset which is different from the DnD 3.0 ruleset that NWN1 is based on.  There are probably a number of features, etc that won't translate well between 3.0 and 3.5.  Second, I heard specifically that your character created in NWN1 probably won't transfer over to NWN2 because the game mechanics are different but also because of graphics changes between NWN1 and NWN2.  The good news is that any of the custom scripting will more than likely be able to be exported from NWN1 to NWN2 which should expidite the module building side of custom content.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Anodynes on June 05, 2006, 12:40:21 pm
Another point of interest... you may be playing NWN1 on Layonara alot longer than you think.  When NWN2 comes out, Obsidian has already stated (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=481529&forum=95) that they won't be supplying the DM client on the CDs.  They state is should be available as a download but as we all know if everyone is downloading it then you may not have it in hand right away.  Further, most thinks that are brand new and a download mean last minute debugging, minimial quality assurance, etc.  I am not holding my breath that the DM client will be worth much before a few patches on it. Call me "cynical".

Since Layonara relies on the DM client so heavily, I don't see a transistion from NWN1 to NWN2 for some time... even if NWN2 does manage to make it out on time.  But then I am just a player here.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: orth on June 05, 2006, 12:50:12 pm
Quote
Anodynes - 6/5/2006  3:31 PM

FYI. First, NWN2 will be based on the DnD 3.5 ruleset which is different from the DnD 3.0 ruleset that NWN1 is based on.  There are probably a number of features, etc that won't translate well between 3.0 and 3.5.  Second, I heard specifically that your character created in NWN1 probably won't transfer over to NWN2 because the game mechanics are different but also because of graphics changes between NWN1 and NWN2.

The good news is that any of the custom scripting will more than likely be able to be exported from NWN1 to NWN2 which should expidite the module building side of custom content.


FYI, Dorganath and many of the development team are very aware of every little detail with NWN2.

Secondly, your information on the DM Client is inaccurate.  The DM client will be available as a seperate download.  By the time we're ready with an initial module release, the client will be right there with us.

Edit: Oh you edited your statement about the client.  As the first post in this thread states, Layonara will probably not be ready until January/07.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: orth on June 05, 2006, 12:54:11 pm
Also, just because the character files will not be transferable does not mean we can't write a conversion program of some sorts.  Once again, until we know exactly the changes, it's hard to make this kind of decision though.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Dorganath on June 05, 2006, 01:05:53 pm
The ruleset change is known, and your comment on what may or may not translate well doesn't really say much, as there are aspects of 3.0 that have not translated well into NWN.  This is more due to the difficulties of translating a free-form tabletop game into an electronic format.  Such things are to be expected, but as I more or less said before until the game is released to manufacturing the features and how they are implemented may change at any time.  Speculation on what is not explicitly known is fruitless.
  I would add also that many of NWN1's short-comings (and it had a lot) have been either fixed in code or worked around by the extremely creative and capable NWN community....as well as by some really talented people on our own teams here for Layonara.
  That characters will not be transferable has also been known for a long time.  What is meant by a character wipe is a decision on whether or not existing characters will be allowed to be recreated in the next version of Layonara, or if people must create all new characters.  Clearly the process is much different, but experience, status, and whatever else a character may have accumulated could in theory be returned to the new character.  Whether or not this happens has yet to be decided, but it is the topic for another thread.
  On the DM client, that it will not ship in the box is also known. However, it is the stated intention of Obsidian to provide the DM client as a free download at the same time as the final product ships.  There are those who would say that this is a negative...that it means Obsidian clearly doesn't care about the MP community or the PW community, and that we'll be locked into a boring SP game for months, years, whatever.  What it says to me is that they need the extra 4-6 weeks to make sure the DM client is nice, polished and useful.  It says to me that they care enough about it to not just throw some half-developed software into the box just to fill out a bullet list.  Rather, they'll take the extra time after release-to-manufacturing (RTM) and spend that time finishing and improving the DM client so that it is up the the same standard level as the rest of the game when it ships. I'll also point out that the GUI is scriptable to the point where many GM-type functions can be added into the player interface.  Granted it's not the same, but it can be useful, though I don't anticipate we'll need to go to such extremes.
  Another thing to note is that, yes, we will likely be playing on NWN1 until January 2007.  While scripting and dialog will transfer over with minimal headaches, really the next version of Layonara will differ from the current version in more than simply visuals.  It will look different, it will act different, it will be different in a lot of important ways, but it will still be Layonara at it's core. Still, it will be a huge job for us and it will take time, plenty of time for improvements and enhancements to come from Obsidian and the NWN2 community...and plenty of time for Obsidian to finish the DM client.
  Lastly, I just want to mention that the developers for Layonara, of which I am one, are watching the news on NWN2 very closely and we are already planning on how to deal the positives and potential negatives that the NWN2 platform will bring.  If we do not think it will be a viable platform for Layonara, we will not go to it...simple as that.
  At the risk of repeating myself, speculating further based on the very light information we all have on the game at this point is largely fruitless.
Title: RE: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Dorganath on June 05, 2006, 01:07:17 pm
And thanks to orth for not being quite so wordy as I am!  :)
Title: RE: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Schmack on June 05, 2006, 10:51:06 pm
Will sub-races like half-giant, half-ogre, goblin etc. be used in Layonara's NWN2 version, just wondering as they aren't listed as one of the playable races/subraces for NWN2, but then again, they weren't for NWN1 either, or won't you know whether you'll be able to have them as races until after it's released?
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Deacon on June 05, 2006, 11:14:28 pm
I would assume that they are going to be available, but I can't imagine how long it will be until they are released.
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Stephen_Zuckerman on June 05, 2006, 11:36:12 pm
If the subraces aren't released with the first patch, the CEP will be right on it, and will probably end up releasing the beta CEP for NWN2 within a week or so of the release.

[speculation] If all else fails, creating a custom skin is easy, when compared to, say, a crafting system. [/speculation]
Title: Re: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Talan Va'lash on June 06, 2006, 01:27:55 am
if skin = appearance, then its not easy really and requires some specialized software and know how

if skin = the stat adjustments its pretty easy.

However I think the NWN2 subrace system is going to be a LOT more advanced and integrated into the game engine itself.  At one point they were saying all DnD playable races will be in.  No idea of the development of that piece of info... but it sounds a little unrealistic or like a rumor to me.  but all rumors start with a grain of truth... generally... most of the time...
Title: RE: Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...
Post by: Dorganath on June 06, 2006, 05:27:58 am
Quote
Schmack - 6/6/2006  12:51 AM  Will sub-races like half-giant, half-ogre, goblin etc. be used in Layonara's NWN2 version, just wondering as they aren't listed as one of the playable races/subraces for NWN2, but then again, they weren't for NWN1 either, or won't you know whether you'll be able to have them as races until after it's released?
 Again, this is one of those things we may not know or won't even be able to speculate on until we have the game in-hand or Obsidian releases more details on the matter. It does seem that NWN2 will have actual sub-race support that is something more than just a "Subrace" field at character creation. The extent of that support and whether or not it can be customized to include half-giants, goblins and others remains to be seen.
  Of course the hope is that we add a few lines into some 2da files and we have new subraces, though as things go, it will probably be a wee bit more complicated than that.