Long Overdue ...

[typically_annoying]

For those of you that have never read the 'Breaking Layo' thread, this is what it is about .....

 have heard a little rumor of at least two people planning to 'break layo' by twisting rules, breaking rules, power gaming, becoming evil.... and then 'bringing a few people down with them'.  This is pretty despicable for players to actually create characters for this intention. I mean, if you one wants to do that, why even play here? Just leave. To me it shows a total lack of support for the world, all of the work the teams do, the public in general, and the entire community. It shows a total lack of ethics on the player’s part and it is childish, rude, and just plain wrong. At least one of you even purchased a new nwn cd to get a new key, it didn't do you any good though because we know all of your characters and your keys--and we knew it before LORE--though that is when you decided to hide your tracks--or at least try.

Rest assured, I know those that are doing this and we are watching you. It is best that it stops right now or you will be banned--or better yet--if that is your plan just leave the world because nothing good will come of it. We do not want your type here anyways; it is not the type of community member we want. Those in the in-game house should be warned that we are watching, even if you are not involved in this little scenario it sounds like you may be getting drug in to it so that you can be ‘brought down’ by these two.

..... and for those that were never aware, this was about myself, and in some degree the player that was 5pider.

Why do I raise this now, after all this time?  Because I still feel very bitter about it.  I had several pm's with L. about this and he promised to find out for me who spread these vicious rumours.  But, alas, I have never had a reply from L. or any of the team.  So, I can only conclude it was forgotten about and not considered important enough to worry about.

I am going to include my pm's with L. just to keep everything clear and above board.  And, hopefully, so people can see what actually happened, or didnt happen as the case may be.

My original response to L. .....

I know this is about me and I am very disturbed by it ...
http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=237...

Firstly, the fact that someone is spreading rumours is quite shocking .. but that I want to break Layo? That I find insulting!

Let me address some of the points you have raised ....

New CD-Key .. yes i got one and yes because of LORE. My son (BiccyBoy) played Layo for a while, and at some time used my PC, so in LORE I kept getting his account and characters come up.

It wasn't an attempt to hide my identity at all. I even emailed you personally when I created this acount telling you that I was 'Evil Dad'. I have also been quite open that my other character is/was Sy'Ravenne. So as you can see I have not been hiding my identity.

Going Evil .. yes my character was trying to go evil. again, I pm'd you and asked you if what I wanted to achieve with my character was possible and we had a few pm's about it.

Power Gaming? .. possibly, but not to the extent I seem to be accused of. I am level 14 now after nearly 3 months of playing her. Yes, thats quick, but I play on average 10-14 hours a day! And lately, with holidays I had been playing nearly 20+ hours a day.

With you removing the DT's I think you should look at all those chars that were level 10-14 at xmas and are suddenly all level 18-20. Now that is powergaming!!!

You say there are 2 of us? By this I presume you are accusing Eamane (spider) as well. Yes, she may be going evil or may not .. I don't think he/she has decided yet. Powwergaming? Not at all, she's had to wait about 4-5 weeks to level because of her CDQ not being run and the GM not contacting her, etc.

Breaking Rules?? I really don't know where this has come from or what it is referring to. But everything I have done or tried to do in-game I have asked about or got approval for. My charactsers not rich and hasn't run any scams, so I just don't understand it!!

Mostly though, I am deeply upset that you couldn't have talked to me about it! Instead you have posted in the forum and everyone knows it's me.

I have to question the person's motives that is spreading these rumours. I don't know what I have done to them to upset them. And as I just mentioned it is upsetting that you have listened to them and gatheres, so-called evidence without giving me a chance to defend myself.

I will leave as it is obvious you want me to and I am sorry you feel that way.

and as you can see from it, I informed the team what I was doing all the way along.  And, I do mean all the way along!  From emailing and pm-ing L., to keeping a dev thread, to making change requests.  Everything was very open, as I believe in that and perhaps that is the problem.

L. responded with a couple of concerns, which I obviously responded to.

Originally written by Leanthar (3/20/2006 4:15 PM)

I am concerned about two things.. two things only really.

1) The statement of 'bringing others down with me'....along with 'breaking layo' by bending/twisting the rules. That is bad in my opinion. I don't know what you said or what could have been said for people to think that is what you meant or intended but that is indeed the case--so not sure what went on there.

2) The markings, more or less showing the sexual attachment. We just can't have that. The whole 'sex clan' junk that happened before sent me down the path of no more sex on this world--at all. But I didn't quite go that far because I didn't want to ruin that part of things. But then I see markings on heads and am being told it is 'claiming' one for a sex partner (or some such like that).  That is quite disturbing to me.

1. I have never ever said those things and whoever told you that is a ... liar! You can see all my PM's if you like and it was never said in-game to anyone. I don't know who is telling you this or why, but you should ask them their motives and get them to give you a screenshot or a chatlog.

I have done nothing but work with the rules. Always! If I have done something wrong it has been accidental and I have corrected it. As I say, the person who is saying this is a ... liar!

2. The markings were originally a way for Isilme/Eamane to show their love. Like a tatoo .. but they didn't know how to do them so had to use a form of branding. They wanted something more permanent than a ring.

You couldn't even PM or talk to me about it!! You had to basically accuse me in front of the whole community without any chance to defend myself!!!

That is not fair!

L. did respond and was apologetic, we had a couple of pm's to-and-fro and I like to think we ended on fairly pleasant terms ...

I did not accuse anybody, nobody even knows what those posts are about--besides those that are involved. I needed to make a post about the sex thing to the public about no more sex involvment... that did not target anyboyd.

I posted that thread in the General area (about Layo) because I am sick of people thinking we can not track things and that people actually think that would be okay. Judging by your past and now what you are saying that does not include you, but in the past I have indeed had to fight off about a half dozen attempts to 'ruin' the world and 'bring others down with it'... It gets old, and it gets to the point where I get preimptive instead of reactive--and that is what this was.  I still feel I needed to make that post, people need to know that we will not allow that to happen. It was not directed at any person, no person or group was mentioned... at all.

Now...with all of that said. I should have contacted you first, sorry about that, I really am. When I read the GM forum about things that were said and going on I reacted because I wanted to protect the world and the community. Like I said, I have had to fight this sort of thing at least six times in the past four years.  This time I was going on the offensive instead of letting it fester and boil like I did before....but that meant I did not contact you directly, my fault and I apologize.  

Why did I not contact you directly you ask?  Well, no good reason because we have worked together/through things before.... however in the past I have worked together/through things with people that in the end continued to lie and cheat in the background and continued to try and bring the world down.  So a past track record of getting burnt is what caused this to happen.

So....

1) I am sorry I did not come to you first. It sounds like it could have worked out better than the past attempts of my contacting others that tried to bring the world down.  

2) It sounds like that is not/was not your desire at all and that somebody is spreading rumors and stuff. Of which now I need to find out who and why.

3) I do hope you understand why I have to be proactive and not reactive--but sometimes being proactive (on forums and on the web) can be harmful even to the good intentioned.

Thankyou for your reply it was appreciated.

Why do I think people know it is me?

1. How many people/groups are going evil and share a house? None i don't think except Moonlight's and Eamane's house.

2. How many have got markings? None, except Moonlight and Eamane, especially as some change requests were made for them.

Just to make one point clear .. I am aware it is a family server as my 11 year old son and 14 year daughter both have accounts here, although haven't played in a little while. So I did nothing to intentionally offend anyone, especially as I could bump into either one of my own kids online at any time.

So, yes, I do feel victimized.

But I do understand why you did what you did and perhaps I would of reacted that way myself.

This said, I will be leaving. I feel now the damage has been done and mistrust is there. I feel very bitter about the lies that have been told about me. That person should be banned!

Thankyou for providing a great world to play in and I just wish it could have been different.

Well I really don't think many people know about the evil house things--very very few people in my opinion. *shrugs*

As to the markings... I don't know how many do/would know becuase I don't know how much you guys have posted about them or talked about them.  So I can't really say on that...but I do think far far less than you realize even know about them.

As to the mistrust... I don't think that is true. People make mistakes, including myself and the team--and we all know and understand that. We do not hold grudges, far from it, we are quick to forget...so long as a track record does not continue.

It is your decision to leave, sorry to see you go. Hopefully in the future you change your mind and check us out again.

Whereever you end up I hope it is something you enjoy and you find some good friends. Games are made so that people can enjoy the little spare time they have, I hope you find your world or module that you enjoy.

As most of you know, or do now anyway, I made the decision to leave Layo as I felt (and do feel) that I cannot play on a world where this kind of thing can be done to someone and is allowed to happen.  In my opinion, it is far worse than the things I was falsely accused of.

My last request to L. was for him to find out who had spread these rumours and he promised he would ...

Thankyou .. it does mean something. All I would ask of you is for you to find out who has been saying those things about me and why.

I have already made the GM post.

Yes I know this is an old subject and only affected me and one other.  But, to me it is very important and I am still very bitter about it.  I want to know who spread these lies and why!  Surely I am owed that, if nothing else!

As the rumours came from the GM forum, I can only conclude one thing ... a GM started the rumour or knows who started it, otherwise how did it end-up there.  This in itself is bad!  The GM who started the post(s) on their own forum, or who told L., should be made to give their account of what they know.

@L. .. I don't particularly blame you for reacting the way you did, I may have done the same myself.  I am upset you never found out about this and never printed some kind of retraction, as the accusations still hover on the forum.

You will also be pleased to know that those I left with have all returned.  In the end, this is a good world, one of the best in fact and I still haven't found better really.

As to me?  I hover from world-to-world, not finding what I want and generally play by myself these days.  Layo was basically my life at one-point and I would spend 12hrs+ a day here.  So, to whoever did this, thanks!  You have ruined what was once a great online experience and left somone bitter and lonely.  So, I hope you are pleased with yourself.

To those friends that came back ... I hope you find what you are looking for and that you are treated better this time around.

Just have fun!

[xXDenizeNXx]

The whole thing just reaks of uneccessary drama to me. Now your private problem is a public one for all to see. It kinda makes out Leanther to look like a bit of an ass even though you are careful to exonerate his actions and make you look like the innocent victim. Maybe it's just my cynical nature but I cannot help thinking there is more to this then meets the eye.

[IceDragonDuvessa]

Have you ever stopped to consider that perhaps Leanthar never found out who it was that roused these concerns. The gm that the concerns were brought to kept his word to that person and to this day as far as I know is continuing to do so.

To me this manner of handling to the situation doesn't shed a positive light on you as a player. Im not sure if you are just trying to stoke the fire or draw people to yourside to leave and float worlds with your or even perhaps an attempt to get people to try and convince you to return.

There are also things left out of this post which I, out of respect for all people involved and the fact this is a family friendly server, will not go into here but to the community and to 5spider and typically annoying I ask that everyone keeps in mind that there are two sides to every story and not let this turn into more of a flame than it seems to be already.

I am not going to delete this thread but I am going to lock it until Leanthar can get out of bed and respond. Its some ungodly time in the morning where he is and I don't want to see this get out of hand before that.

[Leanthar]

Hope you enjoyed that post. It does not surprise me that you did it. I have just learned a very important lesson that many companies out there have stated people should follow. I knew I should but I was trying to be a little different and to let people make mistakes and grow. But to do that it takes communication. Clearly though when people get to this point or the point of banning it is too late and time should no longer be wasted on that person. Not to mention the stress and any/all other things that comes with it.

From this point forward there will be no communication between myself and anybody that has been banned or has caused a rule to get tightened. If this is how people want to react then why do I continue to waste my time and effort on those few people that cause this sort of thing to happen? I am done with this nonsense. If this is what you were trying to accomplish, congratulations on a job well done. Once again....the one hurts the many.

I will continue to communicate with any/all people that have not caused problem(s) because those are the people that clearly want to learn and grow and/or because they are not causing the problems. They are also the ones that do not cause additional work on an already overworked team and individuals. They are the ones that we continue to spend $4,000 - $6,000 a year—not to mention the cost of servers or the 200+ hours of manpower spent in building and supporting the community.

As to this post...well you still did wrong and you know it, though you refuse to admit it (clearly). As to me 'finding' who started things...I guarantee it was not a GM as you are implying. It was concerns from more than one player brought to several GM's and then it went from there. I would never, ever, communication that back to you or any player though--people report things like this (as well as all sorts of other things) because they know that we will keep their name quite unless given permission to use it. No where did I tell you that I would report back to you with findings, that is not my responsibility since you are the one that did wrong. As to the whole sex thing, well that was just stupid and I say good riddance to any/all that want to do that in this community. Ever since I tightened that rule things are much better because the team does not have to decide what is right/wrong and the players know that it is not accepted at all. We never once mentioned any name at all so you were never targeted.  As to any/all other things in this post I will not communicate another word with you about it.

You are most definitely banned now and good riddance.