PLEASE DELETE THREAD MR/MRS MODERATOR

[ChildWolf]

When I was playing my orc in town and said "yous cant make me!" he was using his past expierence of the smaller creatures not being able to kill him or make him run away, I wasn't trying to abuse the server rules in any way.  I am sorry if you still decide to go.

p.s.  everyone I asked never even heard of the orc attack you mentioned.

[Marswipp]

There was an orc, who had come from the east; weapon drawn. Carr, appatently, was the first one to react, by readying his staff, and casting defensively.

[Leanthar]

Hmm, this is one of those times that I am out of the loop. I am on vacation with the family and have not checked the forums for about 48+ hours (not sure how long). I would figure it out if the original poster had not edited his post and changed the subject to 'delete this thread....'.  Enlighten me please.
  Believe it or not it does sadden me when people choose to leave for some reason or another.

[Dorganath]

Leanthar,
  The early parts of this thread are here: http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=16402&posts=1

[Frendh]

lonnarin - 8/9/2005  1:00 AM

  I've run out of fingers and toes to count on when my questing players automatically start attacking NPCs I've possessed rather than progress the plotline of my quests.  Is that monster saying "hello ders!" instead of biting your head off immediately, and retreating a little when you start shooting it, screaming "STOPS ITS STOPS ITS!"?  wow...  you'd be suprised how CE some of these players act.  So far I've had far too many "friendly" NPCs MURDERED by players...

for those that weren't listening the 1st two times...

Layonara is not PVP

I may sound a little stern in this post, but after seeing a fleeing Kenku begging for his life and running away, gunned down in the back, a peaceful were-bear slain outright while he was forraging berries, a goblin in a corner cowering for mercy and having his head chopped off... something had to be said.  Especially after a certain unnamed mage decided to crossbow bolt to death a Hlint kitten and immediately log off...

If you attack something that hasn't attacked you yet, then YOU are the monster.  If you walk up within range and it charges... then it's self defense.  The distinction isn't very hard to make.  See a monster not attacking you?  ask it why it's there.  Attack it on sight, just because?  Then you're no better than any volatile orc tribe or Blood spawn that's out there.

Think morality folks.  Look deep down inside and think if you're a Hero or villain.  Your race commonality doesn't dictate that, only your actions.

Okay, I've killed at least two supposedly friendly NPCs.
And I don't agree with everything that's been said above.

Let's see, the first one was a giant in Iriand mountains.
We had hacked our way through almost two areas of hostile
giants. And when there was only one left in the second
area it turned tail and fled. Didn't think twice about
killing it. He had been attacking us and he didn't say
anything. Was asked by a gm why we killed it when it so
obviously did not want to keep fighting. I stated what
I said above and that you shouldn't let combatants flee
to get reinforcements. The gm didn't comment/ask further so
I thought it was all good after that.

Second time was during a quest, again we had been hacking
our way through several areas. Before getting to this friendly
Beholder we killed, we had met one or two hostile ones.
The friendly beholder said something like "Hold!" but by
the time the text popped it was already Near Death and had two
or three guys chopping at him. So he died.

Note that both of them had red auras, not neutral blue ones.

Not saying Ionnarin is all wrong, just that you aren't evil because
you kill supposedly friendly NPCs. My point of view says
that the Auras show the PCs what demeanor a NPC has. A NPC with
a red Aura who isn't attacking is still very suspicious. So
killing it before it has a chance of killing you is all good.

That idea about walking into range to see if it charges...
seriously. You can't do that with a lot of NPCs, because
they are just way too dangerous should they turn out to be
hostile like their Red Aura says they are. And secondly, there
are characters who more or less never show themselves to the
NPCs before attacking. Thirdly there are characters who just
never(very seldom) give any mercy to certain races.

[PsychicToaster]

Perhaps creating a DM tool to set a creature's relationship with PC faction, without resorting to the parser command that assigns it to a standard faction (since this can have many far reaching consequences if PCs attack it anyway).

[Diamondedge]

Frendh - 8/14/2005  1:20 PM

Not saying Ionnarin is all wrong, just that you aren't evil because
you kill supposedly friendly NPCs. My point of view says
that the Auras show the PCs what demeanor a NPC has. A NPC with
a red Aura who isn't attacking is still very suspicious. So
killing it before it has a chance of killing you is all good.

That idea about walking into range to see if it charges...
seriously. You can't do that with a lot of NPCs, because
they are just way too dangerous should they turn out to be
hostile like their Red Aura says they are. And secondly, there
are characters who more or less never show themselves to the
NPCs before attacking. Thirdly there are characters who just
never(very seldom) give any mercy to certain races.

To judge by a game mechanic is known as what kids? That's right! Metagame Thinking.

Seriously, if you're chopping down stuff that's glowing red, I'm setting myself to dislike you. You charge at me, I'll mop the floor with you.

See the logic? Attacking stuff because it's red instead of blue doesn't make sense. It's a very bad thing to be doing. You obviously aren't RPing at all when you're hunting and therefore I judge you strongly and frown at you. Yes, I don't care about that "Do not judge, lest ye be judged" crap. But everything you said there about 'yes I'll kill anything with a red aura, makes sense' is a bunch of horse patooie, and irks me so.

Why must you irk me so?

If you RP'd when you were hunting, you'd be going "Boy, these giants keep coming, what's wrong with them. I sure wish we could talk them out of killing us, blah blah blah." Especially on a DM quest. Instead, it sounds like your mindset was "Kill 'em all, boys. Hunt 'em down, an' kill their wives, too." Which is, well, CE. I completely agree with Lonnarin that everyone who attacks NPCs just because they're red *cough*halfgiants and stuff on Gretchen's CDQ*cough*, really aren't using their noggins. I won't get into the debate about how I think people only make half-giants for powergaming anyways... But I will say that I frown on this behavior on a very VERY high RP server.

If you kill everything that's red, and an NPC in town is an assassin, but he's blue... and he kills you... Imagine how utterly stupid you'll feel. "Well, I didn't want to attack him because he was blue, couldn't have been any harm at all, blah blah blah".

Chasing a giant that is obviously fleeing and ending it mercilessly is just... annoying. >:c(

Wow, that's a good rant. And an even better personal attack.

I semi-await your rebuttle and your attempt to pull your head out from the back of you.

[Harlas Ravelkione]

Stay polite! If you disagree with someone else feel free to post your arguments, but do not insult people!

Harlas

[Frendh]

Harlas Ravelkione - 8/15/2005  12:51 PM

Stay polite! If you disagree with someone else feel free to post your arguments, but do not insult people!

Harlas

Nah, it's all good. He's not even playing with me. I'd be more
worried if you Harlas or some of the others I spend time with started complaining on the way I play.

And if a blue assassin attacks me, he'll turn red. The game engine
has functions like that for a reason, you cannot emote every single
behavior of a character.

But of course, in a quest you can use the DM channel to let
the GM know you want to talk to one of the npcs.

[Dorganath]

This topic has certainly strayed a bit from the original topic, but to address some things that have been raised...
  Yeah, I kind of have to agree that attacking something because it's red is a poor practice...ESPECIALLY on GM-led quests. There are several reasons for this:
  1) if the NPC is not attacking even though it stands well within visual range and/or you have struck it once or more, there's usually a reason. 
  2) Your character can't see red or blue.   It sees faces and such.  Plenty of "blue" NPCs are going to have sour demeanors, while there will be some "red" NPCs who outwardly portray the demeanor of Mother Theresa.
  3) It can lead to really bad things, such as getting everyone killed.
  Just yesterday, I was on a GM-led quest that would have basically failed miserably had people gone with the "attack it, it's red" mentality....and by failed I mean not only failed the objective but also that the entire party would have been slaughtered about 15 levels deep into the Underdark.
  On my recent quest series, there was a very prominent NPC who was "blue" but quite certainly not friendly to the party.  The party COULD have attacked it, but then it probably would have killed them all.
  Point is...you just can't tell.  Just like you can't go by the name floating above the head of someone you've never met. 
  Oh, and for whoever brought this up, there is a GM tool to allow us to tweak factions so that killing a "friendly" NPC does not screw up the standard factions.  But sometimes it's just easier to spawn them as hostile and disable their AI and/or possess them to keep them from taking hostile action.

[Germaine Lorn]

"I hate to see people leave, but if you do I hope you find another server that offers you more of what you expect". Vyris


Thanks for the thinly veiled sleight.

*shakes head*

Germaine Lorn

[Leanthar]

"...."I hate to see people leave, but if you do I hope you find another server that offers you more of what you expect". Vyris    Thanks for the thinly veiled insult. Was there any point in me trying to leave on good terms?   *shakes head*   Germaine Lorn..."
    Germain, I have no idea, none, where you see a "thinly veiled sleight" here. I have stayed out of this up until this point because people have the right to disagree and such (so long as it is constructive and not flaming).  I think you need to step back and thing about things.  I really think he was trying to wish you the best of luck.  Clearly there are litterally hundreds of places you can go after all.
  And in your reply it seems like you are saying you had no intention of leaving on good terms and you were trying to attempt to inflame--which begs the question of why... perhaps I am wrong but this makes me wonder why you started this thread in the first place "...Was there any point in me trying to leave on good terms?..."
  On top of all of that... What he stated is pretty much what I would have stated if I had stepped in before this and it would not have been, in ANY sort of way meant as hostile.....

[Germaine Lorn]

*takes a step back*

I guess it shouldn't matter if it was an insult or not.  I shouldn't have responded that way.  I shouldn't have wasted your time either having to respond to my childish backbiting.

*takes a further step back*

Germaine Lorn

[Leanthar]

*nods* Thanks and I do understand how you feel.
  I am locking this thread so that we can end it here since clearly you asked to have it deleted before.  Many people seem to think that we delete things haphazardly and when we feel like it. We do not do that, not in the least. I strongly believe players should be able to voice how they feel so long as it is constructive and in a way that does not degrade the community or the team as a whole....ie constructive.  That is why this thread was not deleted or locked up to this point.