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Author Topic: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!  (Read 595 times)

Lynn1020

Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« on: November 16, 2009, 04:05:25 pm »
//new thread to not take over the other one.

Quote from: Lynn1020
I will comment on this...




Honestly I didn't know how important it was to pm gm's with things your character wanted to do until just recently. With the way it is now.. a character can have a huge part of the world without even having to log into the game for anything other than quest. I hate bugging GM with pm's. I know they are busy with their RL jobs and families on top of planning quest answering forums etc. But from the way it looks that is the only you can grow your character other than quest and grinding xp.

If GM's don't mind taking the time answering all the pm's they get from a server of people then I guess there is nothing wrong with that other than it leaves everyone else out on what is happening in the world. You go to try to do something only find out that such and such has already did that. Leaves others frustrated.

One thing that does help, is the public threads that people post to IC. That allows others to be pulled in and get involved.

Quote from: miltonyorkcastle
And now you understand one of the big reasons why you see WL's and high level characters less and less IG, or only on quests. World-changing projects take massive amounts of OOC and IC planning, which ultimately boils down to spending lots of time in conversation (either via PM or IRC) with GMs before you can even do anything IG.

Quote from: Lynn1020
So why even log in to play the game? That just says you can't do anything other than search for xp or craft.

To me this leaves a lot of people out.  I think public forms works much better to pull others in.

Quote from: miltonyorkcastle
Because after all the big planning (which often includes forum posts, since you mentioned bringing others into the picture), then you hop IG to actually make the deed happen.

Quote from: Carillon
Heh ... you know when the GM says at the end of the quest, "And remember, my PM box is always open" or something? We do really mean it. Or at least I do. I received around a hundred PMs last week alone, and sent just as many.

Forum RP is great, and serves its purpose. As do IG events and quests. But PMed inquiries also have their place. To me, PMs are to forum RP as CDQs are to quests in at least one way: they allow for a greater range of efforts and pursuits than one might otherwise be able to pursue. There is a time and place for things to be public and shared, but we also make opportunities for a wide variety of playstyles and for people to be involved in as many ways as possible, and for players and characters to take initiative in more private, solitary, unique or individual ways too. Or at least I do. My two cents for the morning.

Quote from: jrizz
Just in case this does not go to a separate thread (like it should), I just wanted to add. That when I was a GM I would run 80% of a CDQ by PM with IG sessions only to finalize or deal with key events.
 
The following users thanked this post: EdTheKet, jrizz, Ravemore

Lynn1020

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2009, 04:21:54 pm »
I can understand pm's if you are working on a cdq for your character. But when it involves the world and others... how can that help anyone but your own character?

Also Carillon, I think it is amazing that you were able to reply to 100 pm's in one week and it is greatly appreciated!  I just don't know that all GM's can devote that much time. I don't expect you all to.  That is a lot of time!
 

Gulnyr

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2009, 05:45:48 pm »
Quote from: Lynn1020
I can understand pm's if you are working on a cdq for your character. But when it involves the world and others... how can that help anyone but your own character?


I understand what you're saying, but here are a couple of other angles:

PMs are pretty efficient, as Carillon has demonstrated.  If a DM is in-game, for example, specifically to interact with characters so they can advance their projects, how many fewer characters would get the chance to do things?  I'm all over the idea of DMs being online just to bring the world to life a little more and be available for live interaction, but I also understand it's not practical as an every day sort of thing.  PMs are a much better way to handle stuff instead, since a DM can help with more and varied topics by PMs in the same amount of time she can help with one single topic "in person."  

Between PMs and the forum, it's more likely a PM will be answered than a forum post, at least by the way my brain is defining "more likely" at the moment, heh.  PMs are specifically targeted, so it's much more a feeling of "I have been asked this," rather than, "Someone asked this," which demands a response if only for courtesy's sake.  If left floating on the forum, it could be left for someone else to handle, which is kind of a downer for the poster, really.

Another problem with the forum is that sometimes it is too open.  When I send PMs about things relevant to this topic, they are often in the form of letters from Jennara, occasionally conversations between Jennara and an NPC, occasionally conversations between Jennara and other PCs, and sometimes OOC questions that directly affect Jennara.  For the first, there's no RP reason anyone should be able to read Jennara's letters, so the forum is the wrong place for them.  For the second, I try to make sure conversations with NPCs in the between-time of quest series are visible in the proper threads, but not every conversation Jennara has is in a public arena where dozens of people can overhear.  For the third, the conversation is where it belongs.  For the fourth, if the OOC question could affect more than just Jennara, I would try to make sure others know the answer one way or another.  Otherwise, mind your own business, heh; I don't pry into your character, y'know?  So basically, if Jennara is doing something that can and should involve anyone, I'll do what I can to get the word out.  If it should involve specific people, I try to make sure they know.  And if it is for Jennara alone, no amount of OOC curiosity from others will make me spill the beans in the wide open forum. IF any effort affected something large enough to potentially affect and/or alert others in some way, I guess it would be proper to see about a post of some sort in the Rumor Has It section.  "More rumors, please," may be a better request than trying to unnaturally involve others through public posting of everything; at least the world would seem to be moving around us more, eh?  And if the posts are made during as well as after, then interested parties could try to get in on whatever.  (As a matter of fact, and as an example, that is how Argali came to help with Echo at the end of Jennara's WLDQ.)  

Of course, not every effort is big enough or obvious enough to make ripples that any Joe could see, so I am shutting up because I was going to go right off on a tangent into who-knows-where.
 

Lynn1020

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2009, 06:32:34 pm »
Yea I get it.
 

Dorganath

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2009, 07:24:24 pm »
Quote from: miltonyorkcastle
And now you understand one of the big reasons why you see WL's and high level characters less and less IG, or only on quests. World-changing projects take massive amounts of OOC and IC planning, which ultimately boils down to spending lots of time in conversation (either via PM or IRC) with GMs before you can even do anything IG.
For my part, this has nothing to do with why I'm not in-game much except for quests.  That's more a factor of time, and in that vein...

IC PMed interactions with GMs (or even between players) is all about time and coordination between what is sometimes a dispersed and unworkable combination of player schedules, GM schedules and relative time zones. It gives an opportunity to keep RP going when in-game just doesn't work.  

IRC has been a rather viable and important avenue for that as well.

On the particular topic of CDQs and WLDQs, some time ago, we put in place some time limits on CDQs and WLDQs/ECDQs because they had become something rather huge and draining on the GM team as more and more people started having them.  I personally ran a 20-hour CDQ and was on an ECDQ that topped 60+ hours.  So with these limits came some concessions.  Players were encouraged to PM their GMs and stay in good contact with them between sessions, with the understanding that there are limits to what someone can do through PMs or out-of-game communication, but at the same time, if one spends 2-3 hours of CDQ/WLDQ session time doing something that could have been handled through some other means, then that's time that counts against the total of 6 and 20 hours respectively.

Nothing happens in a vacuum, of course, and it's up to the GM to set realistic limits as to what can be done in such a manner (and GMs do set limits).  There comes a point where others must be involved or the events have to take place in-game.  This is true for CDQs and regular quests alike.

The most common use for PMs and other forms of "offline" communications between players and GMs is research.  When a quest session ends with the GM saying "OK, let me know what you guys want to try to do before the next session." or something similar, that's a direct request by the GM for players to do exactly this sort of thing.

Doing so also helps quests move along, especially when coupled with forum RP to keep everyone updated, make plans for the next step and so forth. It's a handy, handy tool and really fills in the gap when all involved parties simply cannot coordinate in-game time outside of quest sessions.

Also, PMs don't have to be solo.  I just recently participated in something with 5 other players and a GM that was going on (and pertaining to) an on-going quest.  The PMs were sent to all involved and the lines of communication were kept open.  Granted, it wasn't as smooth as getting us all together, but given the schedules and times zones involved, it actually worked out pretty well.

So to the question of how it can benefit only one's own character...well, that's all in the execution. If the purpose (and follow through) is to aid the overall effort, and the results of those PMs are shared, then it's not just for the benefit of one but the whole group.  And in truth, it's no different than a situation where Character A might have an NPC contact that will only speak to Character A and not the others in the group. If that was handled in a quest session, then everyone else is standing around doing nothing while Character A gets dedicated GM time until that interaction is resolved.  That's not fun for the rest of the group, and if PM/IRC sorts of interactions would suffice outside of the quest, then really it's good for everyone.
 

Lynn1020

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2009, 01:40:39 am »
This is exactly what I was talking about! :) ..........Oh and this!

I was not referring to posting personal things your character does.  It was more things like this.  With the way
Script Wrecked posted this, it allows others to be pulled in if they choose to.  It is as simple as your character climbing up to Haven and listening or asking questions.  It can all be done in the forms and saves a lot of time at the beginning of the next quest. Now many people can have the information instead of a small group of people. Makes it much more fun for everyone.

Thank you LordCove and Script Wrecked for doing these.  It has helped me understand (and I'm sure several more) a lot better to what is going on.
 

Gulnyr

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2009, 07:12:14 pm »
Ah, right, yeah.  Good stuff.  

I guess the confusion came from the difference between a recap of a quest or several quests (like you've linked to) and PMing DM's with actions taken by characters.  The first couple of responses quoted in the first post are all about personal things characters do, y'know, even if they do have world-affecting potential.  The recaps are actually a great way to get ideas for things characters can do, leading to new PMs, heh.
 

Pibemanden

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2009, 11:31:20 am »
Quote from: miltonyorkcastle
Because after all the big planning (which often includes forum posts, since you mentioned bringing others into the picture), then you hop IG to actually make the deed happen.


Uhmm... I sort of hope that this statement is as much extreme as this statement..

Quote from: Pibemanden
I will never ever write a pm to any DM, or reply to one for that matter


Seemingly people still play the game, because if the only reason to log on were that your plan had to be executed IG then I doubt that many would be playing anymore.
I really like that people share things like Lynn1020 said before, but the real issue I have with the amount of pm's these days is that I feel that even more so than before the game is played through them. Sure if that is your playing style then go ahead and rejoice, but for all us others who actually log in to play the game and watch things develop there there isn't much action to be had.
The effect this has on me as a player is that even though I have just as much time to play as I have always had. I hardly ever play because there is no point in playing beyond the times when someone I know are online or someone has asked me to help out with a trip. Besides that playing is a very boring experience which I would rather substitute for something else.
 

Gulnyr

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2009, 06:37:33 pm »
Do you really think the overall level of server-wide PM-play has changed?  I understand what you're saying and how you feel, and it got me thinking.  When I try to look at it objectively, without letting how I feel about the current status of things get in the way, it doesn't seem like things are all that different as far as PMs go.  Of course, I'm not looking directly at PMs to come up with that, so maybe I'm wrong.

Back when, there were more people playing so it always seemed someone was around to interact with.  And there was Hlint, the center of life, the heart of the server, where someone was bound to pass and/or gather if you just waited a minute (if you didn't walk up on such a gathering instead).  And there was more than likely a quest available any given day (at least in my case).  And plenty of characters were low-level, when all that mattered was the next trip to wherever to get those juicy experience points and make it to level 7 (or 8 or 12 or whatever).

Now, there are fewer players spread out all over the place with no center of social life.  Hemp is enormous and you can walk around one side of the main square and miss people on the other side.  It's not Hemp's fault, since it's a big city and missing people makes sense, but it's clearly not great for bringing people together.  And the calendar is more sparsely populated with quests, which tend recently to be more plotty with some long story to discover and less "let's do something fun for the hell of it."  And everyone's epic-level, looking for something more than just the same ol' same ol', I guess.

I just don't remember anything ever happening that wasn't on a quest, whether scheduled or impromptu, besides level gain through the usual bashy means and whatever RP we could scrounge up among ourselves, y'know?

Do DMs get more PMs than ever?  If so, maybe there are more PMs now because there are fewer quests to fill the void?  Or maybe more quests just make more PMs?  I don't know.
 

Pibemanden

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2009, 03:26:47 am »
First off, it isn't really the player - player interaction I miss, surely it would be much nicer if more players were around and I can't deny that I would have liked more of that, but it isn't possible at the durrent stage and I can live with that.
What I miss is a possitive player - world interaction. Right now it seems to me that most player -world interaction has to do with the player doing something wrong and not something right.
Furthermore there seems to be even fewer impromtus than there were in the past. With fewer players online that makes sort of sense, but I guess that when you have 41 million xp, 5000 xp for good rp doesn't really seem rewarding enough to make you see it directly as a nod of approval. I would much rather have something unexpected happen instead of someone just watching me type a novel in the chat window, but again that is probably just me.

Quote from: Gulnyr
And the calendar is more sparsely populated with quests, which tend recently to be more plotty with some long story to discover and less "let's do something fun for the hell of it."  And everyone's epic-level, looking for something more than just the same ol' same ol', I guess.


Yes I think that it is the fact that everyone is epic now, and they are actually looking for something epic to do, besides bashing epic monsters. If you solely play the game and try to stay out of the whole PM game then you will be stuck in same ol' same ol'. Or at least your character will be, because the way I see it, unless you type the first three PM's to the dm asking all sorts of questions leading you further after the actual quest has taken place.

But again I guess it is just me, just from comparing my inbox/outbox with Carillions, she is a dm I know but still this strikes me as rather interesting, I have 750ish messages in both. Half of these are OOC messages about stuff that doesn't really have much to do with layonara as such except how stuff are priced and people saying they can't make x event and so forth.

But only having 750ish messages there means that Carillion will have recieved/written more PM's that I have ever done in my over four years of participation in Layonara in 7½ week if the pace keeps up that way. Again I find it great that she has the stamina needed to review all those messages, but I find it annoying enough to have to reply to a PM or write a PM every other day, unless it is an OOC question.

All in all it comes down to that I don't feel that I can develop my character in any other way that sit myself down in front of the computer and type type type until I have gone tired of the whole process and simply stopped caring about it. Which is where I am even before I click on my PM inbox really. So to me the choice seems either to live with it or go into a process I lost interest in before I even found out it was the only way to do anything.
 

Gulnyr

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2009, 07:20:32 pm »
Quote from: Pibemanden
Furthermore there seems to be even fewer impromtus than there were in the past.

It seems that way to me, too, though I'm often running about alone gathering stuff.  Lone halflings chopping wood or milking cows may not be the first choice for who to drop in on, heh.  I'm just saying I don't know for certain things aren't happening elsewhere for other players.

Quote
With fewer players online that makes sort of sense

Or... with fewer players we should be seeing a higher number each, and since we aren't, maybe there really are fewer than before.

Quote
I would much rather have something unexpected happen instead of someone just watching me type a novel in the chat window, but again that is probably just me.

It's not just you.  

Quote
Yes I think that it is the fact that everyone is epic now, and they are actually looking for something epic to do, besides bashing epic monsters.

This reminded me of a time a little while back when I was deep in two or three intricate quest series.  It was kinda stressful.  I said it would be nice to just rescue a kitten from a tree for a change.  Why does every event have to be convoluted and world-changing, y'know?  More recently, Jennara was selling pies and another character said something about it being odd to see someone of her status doing such a thing.  With comments like that, is it any wonder Jennara thinks everything is her responsibility?  hehe.  There was a nice IC conversation about it and the guy got a little embarrassed.  OOC, though, it is soooo nice to do something normal instead of rushing around to save the world again.  Things don't have to be complicated to be fun.

Quote
If you solely play the game and try to stay out of the whole PM game then you will be stuck in same ol' same ol'. Or at least your character will be, because the way I see it, unless you type the first three PM's to the dm asking all sorts of questions leading you further after the actual quest has taken place.

Right, I can see that.  Sorta.  But PMs themselves aren't really the problem, right?  It's the nature of the quest that makes such between-event action useful or desirable.  A quest with a single strand to follow, something done in one session (or maybe two) with no loose ends, won't generate a PM avalanche.  PMs are the way characters can do individual things on the convoluted, multi-thread series without leaving everyone else waiting around doing nothing in-game.  

But if it's not a quest - scheduled or impromptu - isn't everything always the same ol' thing?  You're doing whatever you can come up with between the other PCs and your own.  If it's something not related to a quest but something personal to the character that the player would like to investigate and advance, I guess I would ask how that's supposed to happen if no one knows?  We can't have CDQs that often, and some things probably don't need a whole CDQ to work out, so PMs seem a good way to deal with them.  If you really wanna, you can poke a DM online sometimes and ask for a few minutes of RP.  No PMs that way, maybe.  That's how Jennara got started on the relief effort for the islands.  I poked Leanthar and asked for a few minutes of interaction with the displaced, tent-dwelling folk.  

I'm just not convinced PMs are the reason things feel different, or that advancement or involvement can only come from PMs.

Quote
All in all it comes down to that I don't feel that I can develop my character in any other way that sit myself down in front of the computer and type type type until I have gone tired of the whole process and simply stopped caring about it. Which is where I am even before I click on my PM inbox really. So to me the choice seems either to live with it or go into a process I lost interest in before I even found out it was the only way to do anything.

It is safe to ignore the rest of this if you like.  Or the whole thing, really; I'm easy.  I'm a little confused and I'm thinking it's just a point-of-view thing.  To me, it's all just typing, really.  Typing in-game has more eye candy, and typing on the forum is an homage to Zork.  Either way, I can RP, y'know?  I'd love it if I could handle everything in-game, mostly because responses are a lot faster.  Maybe I'm weird.  I'm curious what sorts of character development you'd like to accomplish (and why typing them in-game is significantly different than typing them elsewhere, but, y'know, weird guy asking).
 

Shiokara

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2009, 02:31:16 am »
If I may interject for a moment, what are we debating here? It seems we've gone from a discussion regarding PMing in the spaces between quests (as opposed to other avenues like forum posts) to PMing as the sole means for character development. While it is suggested these two arguments are related, I think it's important to recognize the change in topic, because their solutions vary: PMing for quests, as I see it, is only to handle those specific actions a character takes in the time between quest dates, and PMing for general development is a broader term to encompass all those things your character does out of the public eye.

Now, let's talk solutions.

What is the solution for PMing for quests? Well, first, you can attend quests that don't have big spans of time between their various start times. Phoenix & Pankoki's The Island, for example, simply bubbled itself to run consecutively. Vincent's series regarding Sashka the bandit was also like this. One quest date ended with us jumping into a portal, the next started with us coming out the other side--simple. Eliminate all this fireside chatting jazz and you don't have to worry about doing it. The quests that do that are nice because it allows you to bring in new players, but if you don't want to take specific actions in the off-time, don't.

That brings me to my second point. If you don't like RPing via PMs, then just don't do it, or do it in moderation. If you feel like it crowds your inbox, or if it detracts from your in-game experience, why would you put yourself through that? This game is meant to be enjoyed. It shouldn't feel like work. You shouldn't martyr your own experience for that of others.

I remember in the discussion about sending tells to DMs who run quests that one person said something along the lines of, "If I think a DM is receiving too many tells, or that someone else will think to do my action, then I won't send a tell to the DM and will just let others handle it." If you don't enjoy PMing in that space in between quests, then you could very easily take this same stance for this issue as well.

The second issue discussed here regards the world itself. It sounds like the argument is that the world doesn't seem as full as it once was due to less players, more spread-out players, less quests, etc.

This may be the case, but if it is, it's not like there isn't anything we can do. Player events would be a great way to have a more positive player-world interaction. Storold is some WL master, right? Why not schedule a lecture at the academy (or how about small-group work? I'm all about social constructivism)? Jennara if you want to rescue a cat from a tree, do it. You don't need a GM to RP rescuing a cat. You're a high-up Rofi, right? If you want to organize a fun little thing, why not create a trial, or an event for lawmen to figure out who stole the cookie from the cookie jar. I'm not poking fun at you guys, this is a legit argument. Want more fun? Come up with it. Interact.

I don't want it to seem like I'm just preaching to you guys. I didn't play at the golden age you're reminiscing about. I play the game now, and yes, it can be frustrating. I can empathize with what the benchsitting people are talking about. The GMs might be able to tell you about the countless hours I have logged at the Harpy, the Scamp, Corax Lake, the Wild Surge, and the Goblin Wastes fire, just sitting and waiting for someone to come by so that I can spout my crazy druid speech at them. This stems from my personal preference for "random" interaction. As oxymoron-ic as it sounds, I seek out random interaction. And it's not like I'm practicing what I'm preaching by organizing druid lectures and whatnot, but I've thought about it. If I had a bit more time maybe I'd do it.

Epic players want only to do epic things? Perhaps. So why not find the new players? Find me. Find Ragnar. Find Kaail's new character. Whoo! Shout outs to the new guys! I love them. I was chilling with Ragnar not too long ago in the Vehl crypts with Miss Grendola Piggstrotter. It was a blast.

Why not sign up for Tall Tales Night?

Quests are what you make of them. The world is what you make of it.

Honestly, Pibemanden, and I say this with all due respect, but it really sounds like you're just burnt out from the game, and yearn for 'the good ol' days', whenever those were. I'm really sorry to hear that. I think there is a conflict between what you call "playing the game" and what you consider "fun", and that you really might want to consider resolving this by redefining what it means for you to play the game so that it is fun.

Note: Bolded sections are not for emphasis, just place markers.
 

Lynn1020

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2009, 07:04:27 am »
Not sure about Pibemanden. I was more referring to it seems that a lot that goes on in pms excludes people. I am not talking about your personal character development and know there are some things that are best left to PMs.  Layonara has always encouraged grouping and role playing.  I do not understand how this does that.


I don't know how to explain what I mean...

One example... I was talking in IRC a while ago.. I mention that Milara had not been hear or seen about for some time. A gm mentioned that wasn't necessarily true and maybe should ask around. You would think if Milara had been around that almost everyone would have heard. There was no "Rumor Has It" post on that. I know if my characters had ran in to Milara I think I would have to tell some one. :D

I was told that some characters know a lot of information because they do a lot of leg work through pm's.  Well I'm not going to keep bugging GM to respond to a bunch of pms of me poking until I hit the right thing.  I don't think all GM's have the time to do that and I don't expect them to.  If I have information I want to share it and pull others in with it. It is so much more fun that way.  But I guess not everyone feels that way. Which I guess is fine.

I love finding new people to rp with and it doesn't have to be about changing the world. That is what I enjoy the most and keeps me here.   I'm not wanting WL or anything like that.  But when I do come on a quest that is world plot or world changing.. it seems that more than just a selected group of people should have information.  Posting more on the forms solves that and frees up GM's times for more impromtus and quest times.  If you look at the calendar for this month most of the quest are CDQ's.  Why take up more GM time for pms when not necessary.

I do not have any idea if I'm getting across what I'm trying to say.. But things like this is what I love seeing...this gives others the opportunity to join in if they choose to and doesn't leave just one or two players with the information. Also doesn't require a GM to receive a dozen pms from several people to get the information out. Which leaves the GMs with more time for other things.

I have other players talk to me about these things.. so I know it isn't just me that is frustrated.  But they are like.. what else can you do? With that it just forces people in to the groups they are comfortable with and not bother trying. I know this is the point I am at. Once that is no longer fun then it will be time to move on.
 

willhoff

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2009, 07:48:14 am »
Just thought I would post this so since you mentioned there was no post on sightings of Milara.  I realize it was just an example of your main point, but thought it would help:)

http://forums.layonara.com/rumour-has/249022-drunken-bar.html

(hopefully the link works)
 

Lynn1020

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2009, 07:53:48 am »
Quote from: willhoff
Just thought I would post this so since you mentioned there was no post on sightings of Milara.  I realize it was just an example of your main point, but thought it would help:)

http://forums.layonara.com/rumour-has/249022-drunken-bar.html

(hopefully the link works)


Yea I saw that and that is great and exactly what I meant!  But the one I'm referring to was way before that.
 

Gulnyr

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2009, 06:25:16 pm »
Quote from: Shiokara
What is the solution for PMing for quests? Well, first, you can attend quests that don't have big spans of time between their various start times.
...
One quest date ended with us jumping into a portal, the next started with us coming out the other side--simple.

I know you touched on the problem with this later in the paragraph, but you may not realize how widespread it used to be.  I remember when almost every quest I attended ended with a time bubble, essentially pausing the world there so that no one else had any chance to join the series.  There was complaining and rethinking, and now it happens much less often so that more players can be included more often.  As weird as "Oh, I just happened to be in [random tiny village no adventurer has any business visiting] and saw you guys!  What a coincidence!" or "I was on the other side of the world and heard [tiny village] was [having an experience], so I rushed here in ten hours," can be, it's actually better than making quests hard to join.  If that means there is time between quest sessions for characters to do things, I think it's a small price to pay and wouldn't want the old time bubbles back, especially considering how many fewer quests there are these days.

You're not wrong, but the cure can be worse than the disease. *shrug*

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Jennara if you want to rescue a cat from a tree, do it. You don't need a GM to RP rescuing a cat.

I do.  And no I don't need a DM, but DM interaction feels better than going alone.  Jennara waves to the guards every time she enters or exits Hemp.  They never actually wave back, but I pretend they do because I like to imagine the world is alive.  Wouldn't it be cool if the guards actually greeted back once?  Wow!  Isn't the forum full of thanks for DMs spicing up mining trips and such?  Well, it used to be, anyway.  DM interaction is fun, needed or not.

So yes, very good point and I didn't take it as preaching.  No doubt we can do our own things.  But the points were that impromptu events - or even just little things to bring the world alive more - would be nice to see more often, and not every event has to be overblown with complexity or epically scaled.

Quote from: Lynn1020
I was told that some characters know a lot of information because they do a lot of leg work through pm's.  

Ah.  

I don't know how much other people do, so maybe I'm just typing to waste bits.  A lot of the time when I'm PMing a DM about things that aren't personal to Jennara, it's probably something to do with a quest.  What I learn that way either gets reported in the quest's forum or during a quest session.  That's because if Jennara is trying to learn something, it's probably for the benefit of the group.  Other characters may be different.

On the OOC side, there have been times when I've felt a bit irritated by the apparent lack of action by other players and/or characters.  Not a lot, because everyone has a different playstyle and schedule, but a little because it seemed no one else cared enough to help.  And there have been times I've stopped, either because I've felt like I've asked enough questions for a while or because I'm a little burned out and it's someone else's turn to step up.

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But things like this is what I love seeing...this gives others the opportunity to join in if they choose to and doesn't leave just one or two players with the information. Also doesn't require a GM to receive a dozen pms from several people to get the information out. Which leaves the GMs with more time for other things.

I know what you're saying.  Consider that thread is a question, though, and not a statement.  I'll grant that people with information have a little more responsibility to let others know, but people who want to know things need to ask, too.  You asked about Milara on irc, but did you ever ask in-game or even IC on the forum?  "I haven't heard anything of Milara recently, and that makes me nervous.  Have you heard anything?"

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I have other players talk to me about these things.. so I know it isn't just me that is frustrated.  But they are like.. what else can you do?

Ask questions, like the thread you linked.  I bet that's what a lot of PMs are, really.  Just questions about whatever's going on, but not just randomly.  I would agree just going fishing by PM is pretty low, but most PMs are probably following specific leads.  Despite the fact that the information being sought that way might be something everyone would like to know, the character isn't necessarily going around publicly researching.  They may be private PMs, just like the ones you say are alright.  Let someone else PM DMs, if you prefer, then you poke around for answers on the forum or in-game.  If no one knows, maybe your question will spur someone to find out, and creating the interest in a topic is as important as having the information.  I don't think this is what you're saying, but - just to be clear - you can't just sit and wait for information to fall into your lap and expect to know everything that's going on.


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With that it just forces people in to the groups they are comfortable with and not bother trying. I know this is the point I am at. Once that is no longer fun then it will be time to move on.

I'm sorry you're frustrated and I'm sorry I've become confused.  I don't understand how being frustrated and lacking information forces any particular grouping.  That actually sounds like the worst way to resolve the lack.
 

Lynn1020

Re: Pm's, Quest, CDQ's and more!
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2009, 08:38:51 pm »
Quote from: Gulnyr

I'm sorry you're frustrated and I'm sorry I've become confused.  I don't understand how being frustrated and lacking information forces any particular grouping.  That actually sounds like the worst way to resolve the lack.

I don't know anyway to explain it than I already have... and now I feel like I'm just rambling.

But you and others have made a lot of good points in this thread and gave me a lot to think about on what maybe I as a player should be doing differently. Also think most of it can be done in the forms without taking up more of GM's time.

I guess my main point in all of this posting is... try to include others and make them feel welcome instead of excluding them.  This is not pointed at you Gulnyr or any one person... But something we all should do.
 

 

anything