Poll on transition to NWN2

[ZeroVega]

Doc-Holiday - 4/28/2006 11:28 AM
  Reasonably speaking..
  if Layo2 takes off AFTER a few hundred years...
  Human PC's will have died...
  gnomish and dwarvish may have retired...
  elvish would be a possibility...
  just my thoughts on that...

 I have a sneaking feeling that if "they" do go far enough into the future (they being Leanthar's Legion of Sadistic GMs), they will ensure that it is a clean wipe so that no one gets indignant. Otherwise we'll have people complaining (as mature as we all are). Plus, there are waaaaaaay too many young elves. Heck, Leanthar could jump ahead half a millenia and half the elves on Layonara would only be 600-ish.
  Also I sort of hope we do go ahead a good long distance. If Blood wins I'd like to see just what becomes of Layonara after he's ruled for several hundred years. And if he loses, it would be nice to start fresh in a world that has (as far as humans are concearned) long since forgotten the great war against Sinthar Bloodstone. Spiffy innit?

[Yllyrryon]

miltonyorkcastle wrote:

awww, there wasn't an option on the poll for those of us out there who just don't care. Wipe or no wipe, we'll enjoy whatever comes, and a server wipe is really the last thing on our minds. Or am I the only one?

I'm with you on this, milt.  Other than enjoying the occasional Nwn2 screen shot preview, I'm focused on the "here-and-now", and having a blast - just as I will be when we get to Nwn2.  

[Fatherchaos]

I've been mulling over the prospects of transitioning from NWN to NWN2 (e.g. layo2), especially the issue of character wipe.

Given all the options on the table, and the idea that "its not the levels, items, gold . . etc, its the environment and characters" (paraphrase from earlier post) I personally feel that all characters should be reset to level 1; crafting, level, the whole bit.

Simply discarding the charaters, imho, would set back a lot of individuals, particularly those just getting into the swing of things. True, certain characters, dropped back to level one, would loose their epic abilities. However, through good rp, their epic quality and history would not be lost.

I look at this as a balance of the effort individuals put into their characters and the effort the great layo team puts into their world. Level 1 seems like a great opportunity to avoid loosing previous efforts on both sides, while allowing great flexibility for things to come.

Putting all characters back to level 1 would put far less pressure to finish all the "high level" areas, and allow the layo2 world time to grow with the same and new characters. This will provide another great opportunity: allowing characters who would have otherwise not interacted an opportunity to adventure together. Character histories would not be lost, and new relationships would be forged.

I also see yet another benefit to resetting characters to level 1; Playing layo2 sooner. With less pressure on the dev team to finish "everything" layo2 could conceivably be released as all immediately required areas are finished. The level 1 wipe also lets players the opportunity to truely discover new areas, ala, "Did you hear the news? A new cave was found near Valensk! And, a new port city was just founded!" From experience, playing in a new growing world, with old history, has always proven to be the most entertaining.

Of course there is also the option of characters trying new paths. Like Ozy taking up the axe as a cleric of Vorax, or Dimmy hitting the books to become a wizard

I'm certain the transition to layo2 will not be without its hurdles, and quite frankly, I'm looking forward to all the new and intersting sights, sounds, and characters. I've been here a short time, but the effort I've seen from the layo dev team has been nothing less than astounding!

I'm postive the wipe will be considered carefully by all, but all things considered, a level 1 reset seems to be the friendliest option.

[Milo]

After a general character wipe, players can still recreate the PCs they had in NWN and restart from level one.  So the option of resetting it and a wipe are pretty similar. When the character wipe occured going from LayoBeta to LayoV1, many of the old and ancient characters (Quint Rosewyrn, for example) were remade at level 1.

[Deacon]

So there was a significant time change from LayoBeta to LayoV1?

[Shadowblade225]

Every post by ZeroVega is identical to my own thoughts on this. From a personal level, and throw rocks at me if you will, the immersion, overall experience and enjoyment of layonara would be reduced rather significantly for me if every (or most) of the players were allowed to start the exact layonara PC they've had from lvl 1 again.  I'd just prefer the wipe/start of brand new characters.

[Milo]

Deacon - 4/28/2006  2:23 PM

So there was a significant time change from LayoBeta to LayoV1?

I don't believe so in the case of moving from Beta to V1, but I'm not sure about moving to NWN2 since the main plot will probably be wrapped by then. Just speaking from past experience here

[Thunder Pants]

do we even know for certain if the characters from NWN will be transferable to NWN2? i mean, if the characters arn't transferable isn't all this argument irrelevent de to the fact that there will have to be a wipe due to characters not being able to load into NWN2?

[feniox]

When this first came up I was a bit fearful of a character wipe but after thinking about it, I think I agree with Zerovega too, the idea of a complete wipe and starting a fresh new playing field appeals to me a lot more than just "picking up" where we left off.

I also think a complete character wipe would be a lot simpler from a RP stance that the other options, imagine the epics going back to level 1 but keeping all of their histories and achievements, but then they leave Hlint (or wherever the starting city would be) and getting slaughtered by the first group of bugs or goblins they come across, hardly seems like. The only way to counter that is to let certain characters keep levels, but as said before this gives them an unfair advantage from the very outset.

Yes, we will all miss our lovingly crafted characters, but as long as we are all in the same boat im sure most of us will be able to cope with it the loss.  

[Shadowblade225]

Thunder Pants - 4/28/2006 5:26 PM do we even know for certain if the characters from NWN will be transferable to NWN2? i mean, if the characters arn't transferable isn't all this argument irrelevent de to the fact that there will have to be a wipe due to characters not being able to load into NWN2?

 From what I understand - no, the characters will not be transferrable inthe wayof simply takinga character file and sticking it into the NWN2 folder directory. I don't see any other alternative other than a character wipe unless from a timeline standpoint, the NWN2 version took place immediately (or within a few years) after the NWN1 version. Characters can be transferred to the NWN2 version via the DM by replacing items, exp/lvls (but how much?), using the DM tool following identical creation of the NWN2 version of the character. (In other words - creating the character from scratch). This however is bound to stir up a whole host of problems for the DM team - most of which were covered in previous posts. Again, I really don't see any other way but a wipe. From a logical standpoint I think the argument of keeping one's characters is flawed, but the idea itself isn't irrelevant and is certainly important to other players. (and yep - I know you weren't insinuating otherwise).

[Thunder Pants]

i understand how important our characters are to us, to to think the DMs are going level up and reequip each and every character on the server is rediculous, it's simply too many man hours to do something like that, as there are literaly hundreds and players, and several of them haver multiple characters, even at 10 minutes per character (which is being light) your looking at weeks worth of straight DM work of simply bringing characters to the point of where they were before

not to mention the fact that then there is a slew of issue with players perhaps not being entirerly honest or making mistakes, really if the character files can't be transfered over then there is no agument, there will have to be a character wipe

[GhostWhoWalks]

I for one hope that the next chapter in the plot takes place far enough down the line that all the characters are dust. I'd like to see a totally clean slate. Stories would exist, even books of our characters... but in the past.

And that's coming from someone with a lot of attatchement to his character.

[EdTheKet]

I have very serious doubts that the plot will continue where it broke off

Why's that? World consistency above all, Ar7

I have a lot to say, but it all boils down to a very short sentence:

We're in good hands.

Thank you, comments like this make my day!

I just hope the next manual isn't 800 pages long.

If I have anything to do with it, it could be. Oh wait, I do

[aragwen]

I just hope the next manual isn't 800 pages long.

If I have anything to do with it, it could be. Oh wait, I do

 I agree,it should notbe 800 pages long,itshould be2000 pages

[Ar7]

I didn't mean it that way Ed. What I wanted to say was that I have doubts that it's the 3rd January 1380 when NWN ends and 4th January 1380 when NWN2 picks up. This is only my assumption though and this guess is as good as any other

[SuperMunch]

I agree, it should not be 800 pages long, it should be 2000 pages

*groans*

Alright, I'll read it...  As long as Freldo can contribute with a line or two.

[Zelda1]

It wouldn't be too bad.. I mean.. it took me almost 6 months to get to level 12.. so that would kinda stink... but I like RPing more than gaining levels which is why I'm here. If we did have to wipe.. it wouldn't be so bad because we're all in it together.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Though I've skipped over most of this thread (It's late, I'm tired), I feel there are really only two ways that this can be accomplished, and both depend on plot.

If the plot continues right where it leaves off, keep the characters. It makes very little sense for everyone to suddenly be dropped back down to the abilities they had when they were new-summoned. I mean, really, Pyyran would likely pick on Ozymandias just because he could, if for no other reason. I'd put in some heavy hours to make sure he had the levels to manage it, too. Really, unless there's some cataclysmic event that involves the Dragon that summoned us all, there's no reason for everyone to suddenly be level 1. If we had a wipe... Well, perhaps the Dragon took all the chars to some other plane; who knows?

If the plot starts a goodly time after the current plot, then the characters should all be wiped or dropped to level 1 (with the idea that they were reincarnated, though I don't think that fits L's style). Epics would either be NPCified (something I personally find more reasonable than this next) or reincarnated with the rest.

Myself... The two things I like best are either a continuation with as few changes as possible, or a total change, all the way, with old remnants of our PCs scattered across the world.

That said, if there ARE remnants, I would like to be one of the first to request that there be a Rahth family somewhere in Hamp. *Whistles innocently.*

[Fatherchaos]

Stephen,

You actually hit on a point that I was contemplating. The reasoning behind why all characters would continue on as lvl 1 into the new game. Before I get to that, I'd first like to hit on the options that I think are currently fair for NWN2/layo2 (no particular order).

So far I had considered three reasonable options:
1. Transfering old characters in full to the new game, sans crafting abilities. Limiting this to one char each to reduce dev time, and done also only on request (so no instant - poof - your there).
2. Complete wipe - everything is new and fresh - likely starting on a new continent etc. E.g. South point instead of Hlint. I like the idea of traces of the old characters being left behind, perhaps even the characters themselves.
3. Same character name and history, new life as a level 1. Caused by some soul wrenching event perhaps where the Dream Dragon calls on everyone to seal some great evil/stop blood's last backup plan etc. Or you wake up in bed, knowing your history, but the Dream Dragon had to fight blood on another plane, that you had been dreaming that whole time, but that Dream ultimately had a visible effect on the world.

After having reviewed all the options, I must admit that I am forlornly leaning to option 2, and holding out hope for option 1. Some points were brought up that I now feel that option 3 is really nothing more than the pollution of option 1&2 combined, though I admit it is a viable and interesting alternative. I certainly want to continue my character(s) more than anything, and would love dearly to see them moved into nwn2 in all its glory, even if I would have to restart. Especially after I've seen potential visions of what point harbor and others may become.

Mark me down for an all or nothing special

[iceyfire]

It wouldnt seem fair to allow a few pc's to survive and the rest not, so a wipe is unavoidable.
As i see it, it would be fairly hard to implement the character over the new ruleset and major changes to the gameplay itself.
So really it is simple *Shrugs*.
I Will be especially sad to see Sabrissia pass on before she has reached her full potential but hey thats life.
However i think it would be much more fun to start new, since it is a new game as such.
Not exackly just a graphics overhaul if you know what i mean, lots of changes to one's build in most classes.