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Author Topic: Question in reference to Public Slayings  (Read 961 times)

Jilseponie Wyndon

Question in reference to Public Slayings
« on: November 30, 2009, 05:27:49 pm »
After attending the Beheading of Steel, it brought up some questions I hope that can be answered for me.  Now I understand that we try to be as realistic as possible within the boundaries of the game mechanics and some things are quite difficult to do, but I do not understand why we go through some actions.

Case in Point: Steel's Execution.  Now, he did something bad and had his head temporarily removed.  Then banned from the city for a period of time. Now if I have this right ... If I had an evil character I could run rampant, killing, stealing, etc. and run off ... if I am about to get captured, I provoke them into killing me, zip I get taken off to the nearest bindstone and continue the rampage.  I get caught ... I kill myself and zip I get taken off to the nearest bindstone and continue the rampage. Of course the dance with the Soul Mother is on my shoulders, but such is the life of a thief/murderer.  So with Steels sentence ... why even go through with killing him and setting him free?  So what if he gets caught again ... he loses a limb or whatever ... Kill yourself/get killed and zip ... off to the Bindstone ... a new man.  I am surprised that the land is not crawling with such evil doers already with this system.  So, If you know a person executed is going to the bindstone and thus whole once more, why behead/sever limbs at all? All the populace knows of the bindstone and their abilities.

Now, I am not looking to to have Steel permed (1st he is a friend) I am just curious as to why things are done in this manner and the thoughts behind such a rule (your escape clause).  Not only is it not realistic, but its not logical either.  A far cry from it.  

If you are going to remove a limb you can have the player fix the clothing/armor to make it hidden/pegged/whatever, but a death?  Unsure outside of having a SS removed. Jailed (Character is unused for a certain period of time, hope you got a backup), these are options that I can think of.  I'm sure there are more, but I am really looking for answers.

Not ranting or creating a flame thread, just does not understand why.
((Looking for DM answers here, but other thoughts from regular players are welcome as well. Yes, DM's are regular players too, but I would like official answers, thank you.))
 
The following users thanked this post: Lance Stargazer, Link092, geloooo

Skywatcher

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2009, 05:36:04 pm »
I had the same question and there was another story one of my characters is involved in where a Corathite high priestess was captured by the church of Toran and executed and went "zing" to the bindstone and escaped. That made no sense that they would execute her if they knew she would just get away to inflict more mahem. I would think if most people were soulbound or if there was a way to tell if someone was soulbound then that would be an arguement against the death penalty and for life in prison for some crimes.
 

Acacea

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2009, 05:57:49 pm »
I understand the more general question behind the example, but would just comment that in Steel's case he was never meant to be permanently executed - the banning served as the sentence behind it. In fact my own character disapproved of the execution altogether - nothing to do with who provoked whom or questions of guilt, but simply because it was an unnecessary addition in her opinion, because it was done knowing it was temporary. Why then do it at all?

I don't think that a standard execution would be a typical choice of punishment for a bound character if the intent was to actually execute. Imprisonment, loss of limbs, things to detain and cripple and banish, those are more likely. Executions are only symbols except in the most serious serious serious of cases where perhaps (much) higher powers might be used to attempt permanency.

I would agree that it would be an odd and unlikely choice otherwise.
 

Dorganath

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2009, 06:14:01 pm »
I'll let Carillon give a full answer but first off, the Law of Layonara states that for the crime of murder, the penalty is death.

Quote
Crimes against the life of others and the order of society (punishable by death or life long imprisonment)
• Murder in any shape or form
• Conspiracy to overthrow a rightful government of a realm

So even though Steel is stone-bound, the sentence is carried out.  Knowing he's stone-bound, the promise of additional penalties was put into place.

This was covered elsewhere, and I'm a bit too lazy to look up the thread right now, but if Steel violated the terms of his sentence and exile, any limbs or other organs that are removed from him would be healed fully before he was released again, which has been stated previously prevents the possibility of regrowth or regeneration. As well it prevents the bindstones from reassembling him into a "whole new man".

As for the reasoning behind choosing these particular penalties, I'll leave that to the GMs who guided the events.
 

lonnarin

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2009, 06:32:50 pm »
Quote from: Dorganath


This was covered elsewhere, and I'm a bit too lazy to look up the thread right now, but if Steel violated the terms of his sentence and exile, any limbs or other organs that are removed from him would be healed fully before he was released again, which has been stated previously prevents the possibility of regrowth or regeneration. As well it prevents the bindstones from reassembling him into a "whole new man".



If only the Council of 7 had thought to dismember Sinthar's limbs and cauterize the stubs a few millenia ago, the world would be a much nicer place today! (either that or he would have committed mass genocide via kneecap nibbling ala black knight of Monty Python style)

And wouldn't that only prevent the possibility of regrowth or regeneration under *most* typical circumstances?  Take the Pale Master who as part of his ritual, chops off his own arm and grafts on a necromantic appendage to the stump.  I often wonder what would be stopping such a necromancer from simply adding extra parts to the stumps and animating them, or a particularly ingenious Goranite from making Golem-powered Prosthetics.  Perhaps only a well planned CDQ away? ;)

I for one would love to see the gnome with the mech suit, ala Robocop 2.
 

ShiffDrgnhrt

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2009, 06:37:24 pm »
The problem I have with this is...

How long after a death does the Bindstone kick in?  Via Game Mechanics it's once you push "respawn" but were it "real"... how long?  Instantly?  Long enough after that the body could be further decimated and insentially making the person go through an endless loop of respawning without vital paarts and dying again and again (or just perming)?
 

Dorganath

 

Dorganath

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2009, 06:57:53 pm »
Quote from: ShiffDrgnhrt
The problem I have with this is...

How long after a death does the Bindstone kick in?  Via Game Mechanics it's once you push "respawn" but were it "real"... how long?  Instantly?  Long enough after that the body could be further decimated and insentially making the person go through an endless loop of respawning without vital paarts and dying again and again (or just perming)?

It's something of a "choice" of one's soul when one allows the bindstone to resurrect one's body.
 

Gulnyr

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2009, 07:50:20 pm »
Quote from: ShiffDrgnhrt
The problem I have with this is...

How long after a death does the Bindstone kick in?  Via Game Mechanics it's once you push "respawn" but were it "real"... how long?  Instantly?  Long enough after that the body could be further decimated and insentially making the person go through an endless loop of respawning without vital paarts and dying again and again (or just perming)?


The time after death is really irrelevant to what you seem to be asking, anyway.  Consider that a soul and body can be reunited without unpleasant effects within three days of death.  Won't the body be getting pretty ripe after a couple of days?  And yet a person resurrected after two days won't be half rotten.  What happens to the body after death doesn't really matter, except maybe in specific, individual, unique, stand-alone, or similar special cases controlled by a DM.  

So, if a character is dead, additional dismemberment won't matter.  And if the character is not dead but also not healed prior to death, dismemberment prior to death won't matter.  Practically speaking, I'm going to go ahead and declare it an impossibility to rip someone's heart out, leaving him alive, and then heal him so that's permanent; ripping hearts out is automatically fatal and leaves no time for healing.  For ease of play, that should be considered true for any internal organ, really, y'know?  Yeah, I know, the whole pulling-out-the-intestines thing in Braveheart plus instant-heal magic.  Maybe, but let it go.  It's easy to overthink things.  I do it all the time.
 

jrizz

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2009, 08:12:44 pm »
I dont think that magics could be put in place to prevent a bindstone trip (short of doing executions next to a blood pool). That would be messing with some really powerful stuff and it would bring up all kinds of theological issues with Deities and the SM and how that would all work.

But in the case of Steel I think the execution was really meant to inflict great pain on him before banishing him. I am sure it was not a pleasant thing to get his head hacked off.
 

Shiokara

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2009, 10:36:14 pm »
Many of these replies are in the context of Steel's execution, but there were some other examples that Jilseponie brought up that haven't been addressed yet, so I'd like to offer my view on that.

One being that of the murderer. The alignment most closely associated with the example (a rampage) is chaotic evil, an alignment unavailable to the player base. But if there were a stonebound chaotic evil character, this is theoretically possible. The fact of the matter is, though, that being stonebound is very rare, even if all PCs are stonebound. Furthermore, I think the stonebinding is actually a very dangerous process, which has fatal consequences if one is not one of the stonebound, so many would even be afraid to try it, I think. This all whittles down the possibility of a stonebound rampaging killer.

As for the execution itself, it is just what was decided in this particular case. I think there have been other cases where stonebound lawbreakers were forced to bind to a particular bindstone so that they could not escape from their sentence with death.
 

ShiffDrgnhrt

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2009, 10:48:13 pm »
For instance, Sion (way back) wasa forced to bind to the Toranite Temple's stone (which made his escape attempt funny...)
 

Hellblazer

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2009, 10:54:58 pm »
It has been said before, that there is rituals that can cancel the magic of the bindstone on a person, It doesn't stop the bindstone from working, just from catching the person that the ritual is performed on. Wheter this is still true today, that's an other matter.

@Shiokara,

It's my -personal- belief that there is more npc's that uses the bindstone that one thinks. Just think about the millions of dark elfs that have been killed since the beginning of Layonara ;). But there is a desensitivity that happens when people sees something happening on a constant basis. They become less afraid of it, if it has no visible harming and/or destructive effects. There for it's my -personal- belief that there is a lot more people than just simple adventurers that uses the bindstone. Important figure head for one would probably use it, to be sure that if an assassination attempt was successful, they could be back. It hasn't been quite used that way by GM's as far as I know of, but it is definitely a great possibility. Although, if I'm wrong, well it would be great to know :D

ShiffDrgnhrt

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2009, 11:05:35 pm »
You're wrong...  o.o

//Note the sarcasm in the o.o
 

Dorganath

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2009, 11:36:26 pm »
Well actually those that can survive the stone-binding process is a rather low number (percentage-wise), and not all of them even attempt it because of the risk of instant, permanent death.  For convenience, all PCs are considered to be among the group that can bind to the stones.  As well, there are NPCs among the stonebound, but again, their numbers are few rather than many.

The number of dark elves killed and "regenerating" in the Deep could be due to several reasons, one being that there's just more of them than people suspect.  The other is that it's an obvious mechanical compromise to the need for adventurers to kill things, as is the case with most creatures.  Particularly powerful creatures like Fisteron probably have their own stones, but the whole goblin/dark elf/giant/kobold/kenku populations most assuredly do not, or at least only a small handful of their numbers even bother with binding.
 

Shiokara

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2009, 12:13:53 am »
Quote from: Dorganath
Well actually those that can survive the stone-binding process is a rather low number (percentage-wise), and not all of them even attempt it because of the risk of instant, permanent death.  For convenience, all PCs are considered to be among the group that can bind to the stones.  As well, there are NPCs among the stonebound, but again, their numbers are few rather than many.


One thing I do find surprising about this (and this statement is made in complete ignorance of Layonara's full lore and history) is that there does not seem to be any totalitarian leader who essentially farms humans, elves, dwarves, etc. for the sole purpose of trying to bind them and train them in order to create an unstoppable army. I could definitely see such a possibility in a real-world setting, even if not much is known about the stones.
 

Dorganath

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2009, 12:23:51 am »
Maybe there is! ;)

But then, it's likely such a leader might not take the risk of the stone himself, and would therefore remain rather vulnerable to any turncoats in such an army.

Paranoia is a wonderful thing!
 

SteveMaurer

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2009, 09:46:24 pm »
Quote from: Dorganath
The number of dark elves killed and "regenerating" in the Deep could be due to several reasons, one being that there's just more of them than people suspect.  The other is that it's an obvious mechanical compromise to the need for adventurers to kill things, as is the case with most creatures.  Particularly powerful creatures like Fisteron probably have their own stones, but the whole goblin/dark elf/giant/kobold/kenku populations most assuredly do not, or at least only a small handful of their numbers even bother with binding.

I thought this was simply because the priests of the Dark Elf gods simply used Raise Dead and Resurrection.    In fact, as I recall, I accounted for that in Darthirâe's origin story.

In general, you would expect a good sized temple to be able to bring back just about everyone killed in a typical PC raid within the 3 day timeframe, unless specific measures were made to prevent that from happening.

And I doubt those measures would be easy to pull off on a shaky raid of the Deep.   (While Kurn is entertaining in saying he drags hundreds of dark elf heads out of the deep, I'm not all that sure that's believable.)

The same should be true of most places in the world.   Why should a royal risk dying by failing the stonebinding ritual, when they have dozens of priests of various friendly gods willing to resurrect them at a moment's notice?
 

Link092

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2009, 10:01:55 pm »
Quote from: SteveMaurer
I thought this was simply because the priests of the Dark Elf gods simply used Raise Dead and Resurrection.    In fact, as I recall, I accounted for that in Darthirâe's origin story.

In general, you would expect a good sized temple to be able to bring back just about everyone killed in a typical PC raid within the 3 day timeframe, unless specific measures were made to prevent that from happening.

And I doubt those measures would be easy to pull off on a shaky raid of the Deep.   (While Kurn is entertaining in saying he drags hundreds of dark elf heads out of the deep, I'm not all that sure that's believable.)

The same should be true of most places in the world.   Why should a royal risk dying by failing the stonebinding ritual, when they have dozens of priests of various friendly gods willing to resurrect them at a moment's notice?


Why resurrect your political enemy? more for you now.
 

Link092

Re: Question in reference to Public Slayings
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2009, 10:04:35 pm »
Quote from: ShiffDrgnhrt
For instance, Sion (way back) wasa forced to bind to the Toranite Temple's stone (which made his escape attempt funny...)


and, gee, thanks Shiff. nice to know some one here has humor... (note the sarcasm by the sarcasm) *cough, wink*

he's still alive, it's just a matter of how many times a DM is willing to let me RP getting down a wall to attempt several escapes and do more exploring..... *shakes fist at Fort Llast's mage*
 

 

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