Removing ECDQ's

[Etinfall]

Not really wanting this for the team(a lot more work) but it would be cool to have the same type of requirement for getting past level ten that there is for epic. Not as difficult but something that says, yes your char IS progressing.

Etinfall

and I get jealous of the players who can play alot, but I would never begrudge them for it. Good for them, if they are in game more often it is more likely they will there for big events.

[Dorax Windsmith]

Thanks for clearing that up Orth.

[Harloff]

*smiles* I was only making a suggestion because I knew at least one gm (Meizter) who broke their back on CDQ/EDCQ's. And I just came with this suggestion in order to help.

Someone said it is a simple matter of supply and demand, and that is of course true but I don't think that the demand can ever be met. Over time people will gain levels and eventually end up at level 20, it can be made harder as some suggest but eventually they will get to level 20 no matter what. So the demand will always be there and steadily increase because of the popularity of the server. Even i it is fixed that way there are around 30 characters waiting for ECDQ's and about 11 months que on one (that is what Varka told me at least not checked it myself since it has never been relevant for me), and I bet some players will reach level 20 in the next 11 months. So the demand is there and will be there in the future too. However, dm's come and go and most of the gm's who stop do it because the workload i to high. That is at least the expression I have after reading their reasons for ending their carrier, and there is no signs of the workload getting smaller. New server rules are added that the gm's have to keep an eye on, more people demand ECDQ's and so on... So as I see it the team can never meet the demand, and the waiting list will continue to grow and grow. It might be me just seing things negatively but it is my impression that the waiting lists have steadily increased in the 1.2 years I have played.

I understand from the post above that many see my suggestion as sacrelegious, which is of course caused by me not seing it as a big deal (still don't and you can't convince me, I simply don't think that way). And I accept your different view on the matter eventhough I don't understand it, perhaps caused by my education as an engineer, I think in mathematical logics e.i. level 21 comes after level 20 as level 11 comes after 10. Furthermore, I see no direct correlation between slow level progress and good RP, I do, however, see a direct correlation between time online and level progress and between time on quests and level progress. However, the correlation between time online and level progress is ruined if you want to become a high level crafter then your time online will be spend on grinding crafing exp rather than adventuring exp.

[Varka]

Harloff - I asked loosely around for information about ECDQs, about the "time-spand"/"waiting-time"..(which was around 10 months)...Didn’t sign up for anything yet.
Just know the list is long, we are heading for summertime - so it is probably a combination of all...(asked around a 1½ month ago)




BTW.
I agree and disagree with Skarps opinion - And it is not because I am lvl 20.......
Loooooong story why but I write a few words?

Being Epic shall stay special - just a matter of how you define an Epic Character. Dot.

Do you define an Epic PC by lvl (as the game is based on lvls)? - 100% pure system based
Do you define an Epic PC by "PC action"?  - Pure RP 100%

Until I started playing Layo I played 12 years "system-less" games - Pure RP...No numbers of str, dex, con, skills points - nothing...

So I see the "two lines" as a confrontation here on Layo. We speak of RP and major marks on Layo but what I see on the post it a lot of talk around lvls - No offence because I love levelling - like a child in the candy store.

A lvl 10, 15, or 25 can be an Epic PC in my eyes - it is his/her action that does it. Example.

The people that made "Skype" - They are Epics but maybe they are not "so skilled"
The people behind Linux (the high brain) - that stands behind a front figure and uses 24/7 now in programming but will be never known as they stand behind the scene. Really skilled people. They are also Epics.

Gladiator:
Maximus is Epic - skilled and becoming known as he listens to the Slave dealer
The "slave-dealer" is also Epic because he won the crowd. In that way the crowd made him Epic.


Layo now:
Remiel, Kobal, Rev are Epics of name  - and yes they have probably also killed a few goblins

But little Bob from Greenland - Could easily also be "Epic" by going from one battle to another - slaying and killing. Chop, chop chop all days long. Why? Because he uses his skill. Melee skill - the only way to get better at fighting is by fighting. I got 125000 xp yesterday for slaying a few foes and making a raft? ...Someone please tell me how this works for my melee skill?..

Well - As you see I am more into "skills" as I call then so....my ideas don’t really fit in - but here is a loose idea.

Say - to get to Epic you need - 10.000 points
You can get points by:
- chop hop chop all day long (let the xp-cliff og 10 mio stay put)
- Gm hands out points for every quest you participated in. Looks at the PC individually
- points for CDQ
- points for an ECDQ
- ETC....



Leaving a mark on Layo "can" be done in many Ways - I will point at Ahndar and Jacchri which I see as characters that could go under my idea.


Good weekend


PS:
Leanthars comment
"*smiles* No Harloff they are not a big deal for that reason. They are a big deal because I do not want a bejesus amount of character above level 20 walking around the world like a god"...

That is what I call a "clean cut". Dot and done.

[Zen]

Aloha All,

Now that the nice stuff is over I can see one way to put an end to all of this!

It's called a bell curve and most good PnP DM's that I have met use them. Here in a computer setting all we need to do is increase the amount of XP needed to reach the next level. This can be done many ways: Doubleing the XP to the next level; Adding a percentage to the current values;etc. etc.

I think this would be easyer than dropping the xp receved from monsters and Quests. and still accomplish the bell type ramp. For all you PnP players out there this is why most DM's have you play characters ONLY in their game.

I have been PnP gaming from 1980 to present (yes I still PnP) and you almost sound like you think that Leanther is a Monty Hall type GM (a least with XP). I would even agree to a level rollback if higher XP to the next level is installed!

And please rember the Player said this and don't take it out on my Characters.

[Dorganath]

Let's remember here, and this was kind of hinted a few posts up, that the ECDQ is a construct for Layonara. It's not standard rules, and NWN would happily let you level from 20 to 21 without giving it a second thought. However, Leanthar has decided (and it's his world so he can do this) that making the transition from level 20 to level 21, and thereby also making the transition from standard rules to epic rules, should mean something other than just another level.
  "Leaving one's mark on Layonara"....while technically true that it can be done in many ways, there's nothing really "epic" about leaving goblin/ogre/giant bloodstains. Leaving one's mark is generally done external to the normal game mechanics, through CDQ/ECDQ, GM-led quests and the like. We could debate what leaving one's mark means all day, but the fact is that this is how Leanthar wants it to be, and I'm doubtful that position will change any time soon.
  Even the rules themselves imply that going into epic levels is something special. The feats and other goodies available at epic levels truly are exceptional, reflecting that the character has quite grown beyond himself and has become something more than just what he/she has killed. And let's be honest...who wouldn't want access to the epic feats and spells? Many of them are pretty nice and really enhance one's character's already legendary abilities. If we had no ECDQ process, there would be a lot of power-leveled 20+ level characters out in the world, with very few of them having any RP depth whatsoever.
  @Harloff: I too am an engineer (electrical), so let me see if I can give you a real-world physical/scientific example of how going from 20 to 21 is not just another level. I'm sure you've studied physics and specifically the properties and states of matter. By "states" I mean solid, liquid and gaseous forms. Between each is a phase transition. As one adds energy to a substance, let's say water in this case, the temperature of that substance rises in a generally linear fashion. However, when the temperature reaches a phase change boundary, such as going from solid to liquid at 0 degrees C (32 deg. F), additional energy must be expended in order to reach that next temperature. So as a given unit of energy is expended to increase the temperature of ice by one degree all the way up through the freezing point, additional energy must be applied to raise the temperature across that freezing point. The same thing happens when transitioning from liquid to gaseous forms. This extra energy at phase boundaries are generally known as "latent heat".
  Now...applying that example to Layonara and epic status...consider the levels of 1-20 as a solid form. To get to 21 (liquid form) one must expend more energy to get there. This is reflected by the ECDQ process. The next transition, level 29 to 30 (gaseous) likewise requires another expendature of energy (ECDQ). Finally, as one becomes truly the stuff of lore and legend by moving from level 39 to 40 (plasma), another extra expendature (ECDQ) must be made.
  So you see....ECDQs are really an immutable law of physics

[Faldred]

Dorganath - 4/27/2006  5:38 PM

There were no Epic rules in 1st edition as such, and the defined class progression effectively ended (or became rather mundane) at different points depending on the class. Each class also leveled at a different rate.

Gosh, I'm old enough to remember 1st edition and AD&D (2nd Ed.)... back in those days, level 10-12 characters were considered "high level".  Just look at things like the Against the Giants module series to see what "high level" adventures were...

There was clearly no concept of "Epic", and I believe that non-human races had level caps for most classes.  It's been a long, long, time, and I'm not sure what ever happened to my old AD&D player's manual, DM guide, etc.

[miltonyorkcastle]

Just want to pop in and say I agree with Dorax.  Quit being jealous and be happy for the people that have the time to commit.  We're all around to have fun afterall.

[Zen]

Faldred - 4/28/2006  8:28 AM


I believe that non-human races had level caps for most classes.

Yes there were level caps on everything but the Fighter class. That aside do you remember "Chainmail"? Wow I really feel old now :p

[jrizz]

"chainmail"!!*snicker* you are old *laughs* Doh! I'm old for knowing what you are talking about

[xXDenizeNXx]

Puts his hand up and says nah can't be that old can we? LoL

[Eight-Bit]

orth - 4/27/2006 8:44 PM Players used to lose 10% of their total XP if they respawned. They could go back to their grave to get half of that back. 4% of their XP if they were raised, 2% if they were resurrected.

 Do you remember that time we were trying to get you to level 17 or so, and Maddison joined in just after we got to the old Crypts near Melnon? We traveled around, and we almost got the Avatar of Corath, but then you suddenly died 3,000xp away from your level. I believe you lost somewhere in the range of 600,000xp. I am suprised you ever spoke with Qui-Z again.
  I am so glad that the system has been altered, and in my opinion, entirely fixed.

[Ar7]

There was a similar situation were Madisson was on the loosing side. She was around level 9 and there were lots of level 4-5 characters. So Madisson decided to take them to the old Kobold caves, the little ones acted in a such a hectic way, that almost the entire party got killed, including Madisson. I then heard lots of cursing about how he lost weeks worth of questing in a stupid Kobold dungeon *laughs*

[Force_of_Will_]

I actually miss that death system.
I must be a sucker for pain.