Covert Operations - Large Group

[Rhizome]

I suppose the comment about the level 29 character attempting to attend this quest is directed at me, as I was the only player with a level 29 character in attendance.  It's extremely disheartening to hear comments suggesting that I don't need experience points, that I've had so many opportunities, that I've had a chance to contribute to the war effort.  I'll just quickly respond to a few of these assertions and then let things rest.

Firstly, epic characters have a far more difficult time getting experience points in any way besides questing than other characters.  I've been every level from 1 to 29 and can make that statement from first hand experience as well as many discussions with other players.  The mid-level hurdle seemed minor to me compared to the epic level bog you will eventually face should you choose to play that long.  There is a realistic in-game consideration for this, epic characters should bet experience points for epic things, not simply bashing.  And so, such characters become stagnant without questing.

Secondly, there are far more quests with level caps than with level prerequisites.  Also, GMs who tend to run quests which fit with epic character involvement play epic characters themselves.  There is also an issue with time zones and quest availability.  For me personally, these things add up to a realtive dearth of questing opportunities.  This includes any of the "war effort" quests and "main plot" quets, which I would truly love to be a part of but which for honestly understandable reasons never fit my schedule.

Finally, I half-heartedly appologize for having attempted to join a quest in the way that any other player and character would have and a great many did.  I will withraw myself from the quest selection and will look upon such decisions with great reservation in the future.

No hard feelings are directed towards any individuals in particular.  I'm simply frustrated about the same situation that the rest of you are from a slightly different angle.  Good luck with the quest and I hope we can enjoy each other's company in the future.

Rhizome

[Lilswanwillow]

ummm, Rhizome, I think people just be mad at the whole level cap talk-so things got taken out on high levels because us middle-to-low level characters never really get onto the quests, because you have to be such-an-such level...

I think that hes handling the situation NICELY and things will get sorted out

and you go on any darn quest ya want to, ya hear?

[FlameStrike]

My character is currently at level 20 and waiting for his Ecdq, any xp he gets isn't really needed since i'll be put at halfway to level 22 IF i succeed at the Ecdq...
 I've asked for xp removal quite some times now, so i do think the only reason i still join on quest is... the fun i have RP'ing and interacting, otherwise if i only saw things on the XP perspective, i would have stopped playing Syn ever since i leveled for the first time to 21.

 Don't point your finger at those who are Epic or whatever, if people join, that's because they might want to have a good time, it's not always about the xp. *shrugs*

[Rasterick]

As the GM who had organised this quest, I would like to add my 50 cents (or 50 pence, depending where you are).

Firstly you are more than welcome on any quest that I run, I always believe that we should all be seen as equal in this world; and that Levels are only something that is part of the game mechanics.  I deliberately left off any level requirements on this, as I had hoped to in the quest; bring everyone to the same level by what I had planned. I was at this stage going to be a solely RP based quest. So levels would have had no bearing at all.

Anyway, thats my take on it.

[Spider]

I just wanna appologise to the big man for putting him on the spot,

I really can't wait to do this whole quest thing though

and anyone should be able to take part, we had a lvl 29 there, but we also had a lvl 1 so it all pans out.

remember the dusk and dawn quest, that was simular in that it was very popular, but was slit to time zones (i think)

[Leanthar]

"....More agreement. After all, and no offense meant to our EPIC- AND DEMIGOD-LEVEL player characters, what does someone at level 29 need with ANOTHER quest that someone who needs the experience (both mechanical and in regards to the player's RPing) could participate in, instead?

It's not really like some of us can get to almost any of the quests, after all. *cough, cough*

EDIT FOR ICE AND OTHERS LIKE HER:

The above statement was in regards to those who get to play all the time, and get quite a few opportunities for questing. That's... Really pretty much it...."

WOW! I am sorely disappointed to see that comment! *shakes head very sadly and walks away with a hung head*

So much for GM's trying to do the best they can and still get slammed in every which way.  So much for epic players trying to join quests when then can and how they can.  Show me a single (just a handful even) of quests designed for epics only.  You can't.  The epic and high level players have just as many rights to join quests as everybody else in the community.  For you to think otherwise is just plain wrong.

[OneST8]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

[freemen2]

I prefer weed :p

Now come on, jeez, don't blame people that they want xps when yer feeling fustrated about not beeing able to do a quest in order to get xps, that 1.

2. I play to interact with people in a Fantasy world has my CPs, xps are cool but secondary.  I am not the only one taking it this way....ooops that was 3 I guess.

4. It's all Gulnyrs' fault he admited it to me in front of witnesses :p

[Nyralotep]

/gets on soapbox

off topic for the post but I feel important

I have played here for a good amount of time and I know most of the Epic level characters and I can truly say that I would be honored to be on a quest with them.  Rhiz, Orth, Pan, Storm, Ozy, IDii, Ghost and the others are all excellent RP'ers and I always watch them and am challenged to do better RP.  

We sometimes forget, I think, that L has a plot that continues to advance and with Epic characters there might be a chance to overcome the forces of Blood.  

I like quests because I can further the storyline of my characters better.  I have one character that needs to be on quests to be seen by many characters because their reactions will determine the path my character will take.

Yeah it stinks to miss out on a quest and I've missed out on plenty to others and my schedule makes it very hard to make quest times.  But let's not fault any epic character for trying to further their storyline.

/gets off soapbox and stops rambling

[aragwen]

*WARNING RANT FOLLOWING*
  This is so sad. What makes a lvl1 or lvl5 or lvl10 or lvl20 or lvl30 different from each other?
  Everyone no matter their level wants to have fun and enjoy the world.  Itnever should be about XP, but rather about having a good time.
  So I dont go on quests for XP and I surely hope others dont go to quests for XP either. Quests are there to have fun and give you the opportunity to develop your character and interact with other players.
  Level does not determine your RP ability and any level can RP with any other level. I feel it is very unfair towards high level characters to not give them the respect that they deserve. High level characters are people who has been around the block, they havea huge knowledge of the world and a lot of experience to share with everyone.
  Rather than trying to exclude them why not embrace them and try to learn from them.
  One last comment, even if someone is not a high level character today, with lots of effort, RP and time invested into the world you will become a high level character as well eventually........and would you like to be treated as such then.
  The same goes for low level characters. Personally I will treat them with the same respect they treat me with. In other words if a low level characters ask for help or assistance I will gladly help him.
  Level means NOTHING......the character is still a person. Rather spend time to get to know the person rather than oh wow he is an "epic lvl character". Rhizome (as an example) is not a 29 lvl epic in my eyes......no heis the high druid of Mistone and just for the fact that he holds such a position, he gets my respect and awe. And for each character that has been around a whileyou can tell the story and you would know of the person and what he did in the world.
  Rather than going "oh no another epic joining the quest" rather ask the others "who is that, is that really Rhizome, the high druid?" or walk up and introduce yourself.
  Checking or even knowing and using a characters level is one of the worst metagaming things in my opinion. Perhaps we should remove the levels being displayed for all characters and then just RP the person.
  *END OF RANT*

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

See, the thing in my sig really is true!

The comment I made about Epics was actually prompted in my brain by Ozzy (level thirty-two demigod), though I was trying to make the statement a little bit more generalized... And really, now, did noone read the edit? "Ice and others like her" could only possibly mean "People who have lots of mechanical XP, but don't get to play all that often," after the post she made. I was just frustrated over the fact that once again, I would likely be unable to attend a quest for the mechanical XP, so that Pyyran would be further on his path to be a Duelist (which is one of his various goals in life), and for the actual roleplaying experience, which is something I'm always keen on. Whether you believe it or not, the second is as important, or more, than the first.

Some of us don't get to go on quests nearly ever, because of time restrictions and level requirements. I can understand perfectly that there are higher-level PCs in the same position, but it just seems like it wouldn't be quite as frustrating when they haven't had thier eyes on some piece of equipment that thier character lusts after and could acquire, but doesn't have the "level requirement" for.

As for reactions to "Epics..."

As a player, I've never been very impressed by players with Epic characters, just for the fact of thier levels. For the fact of incredible roleplaying? Sure. But Pyyran? As a character, Pyyran isn't impressed by nearly anything, if he doesn't respect the person, directly. Or rather, he may be impressed, but it won't exactly make him care who the High Druid is, if the High Druid's High Druidyness isn't going to seriously affect Pyyran's interactions with the rest of the world.

Should've said level 30... Would've kept people from thinking I was picking on Rhiz, who has enough to do as a DM that he deserves whatever playtime he can scrounge up. (Not saying that Ozzy and other don't, so don't even go there.)

Characters who are more powerful, generally have had more opportunities to increase thier power. By that reasoning, it makes sense that the really powerful characters got to go on lots more quests than, say, Pyyran, who's been on four (maybe five), thanks to my usual weekends in a place with no 'net. I love quests, because Pyyran gets to DO something aside from pick berries and mix magical cool-aid. My comments were made solely on my frustration over the questing that people have and have not gotten to do... As a rule, I don't specifically target anyone; or at least, I try not to. Thus, generalizations.

But in any case, I am out of steam for defending myself; I have to do it far too often on account of my increasingly poor taste in words, for all that I try and correct them.

[feniox]

Before I start, I just want to point out that im not irying to fan the flames of war with this post, and im not targeting anything at anybody, its just my opinion on the overall situation.

I think there is a difference between the epics and the lower level characters, but it's only a difference of game mechanics and not in the characters themselves.

I have travelled a few times with certain characters in a guild (which shall remain nameless:P) who are significantly higher levels than me. It wasn't a problem to begin with because they weren't all much higher than me, but as time has gone on most of them have increased a lot faster than I have, and now most of them are closing in on level 20, and some of them are a bit higher still, taking into consideration that im only currently level 11 you can understand that I feel a bit useless sometimes when im in a group like that, and sometimes wonder if they'd enjoy it more if I wasn't there because of the effect (or lack thereof) that I have on any encounters that come our way.

In my time of playing (and i've been here over a year now) that is the only problem I've ever had when mixing epics with lower level characters, and I don't think that's a good enough reason for start enforcing level caps or saying that certain people shouldn't join quests with the rest of us. As someone else said, everyone in the game is a person and we all have a right to take part whenever we want to, and aslong as everyone involved can accept that the spawns are likely to be afdjusted because of it, I don't think there needs to be a problem.

If the server holds long eonugh to get into combat that is

[Wintersheart]

feniox - 2/11/2006  3:14 PM
I have travelled a few times with certain characters in a guild (which shall remain nameless:P) who are significantly higher levels than me. It wasn't a problem to begin with because they weren't all much higher than me, but as time has gone on most of them have increased a lot faster than I have, and now most of them are closing in on level 20, and some of them are a bit higher still, taking into consideration that im only currently level 11 you can understand that I feel a bit useless sometimes when im in a group like that, and sometimes wonder if they'd enjoy it more if I wasn't there because of the effect (or lack thereof) that I have on any encounters that come our way.

You are anything but useless and there are very few characters Rolf would rather travel with than Kurgaz Ulfson. Mainly because his player really enjoys it. Kurgaz is an extremly well played character and through your RP you contribute greatly to said guild. If you didnt come I would miss you.

/Wintersheart    

[Varka]

I agree 110% with Rolf - Kurgaz.........
Varka sees the dwarf infront of him - and a great one you are...

[cappyra]

I just want to toss my 2 coppers in here:

The goal here is to have fun.  

I admit it is frustrating when you set aside time, take off early from work (or take the day off =P) arrange for a sitter etc...  and then the quest does not happen.  You have to realize that the possiblity always exist that there could be a problem.  Whether it is game mechanics or Real Life.  Always keep in mind that there are limitations to the game and above all the GMs have real lives and that should always take precedence.  The GMs are here voluntering thier precious time to make the game enjoyable for us.

Epic Characters:  Compared to the amount of characters on the server, there are very few Epic level characters.  I would consider it a Boon to have any Epic character involved in a quest.  The main reason is just by their presence, content has been added to the quest.  Let me share a couple of examples.

First I will use Rhizome *grins.   I remember the first time I was on a quest with Rhizome.  I had never met the character, but his reputaion was renowned.  The High Druid of Mistone.  Hero of the Alliance!  I saw people talking to him and when his name was mentioned I walked over.  I was like...  "So this is Rhizome, the one I had heard so many tales about.  The High Druid.  How much history he must be a part of. . ."  His mere presence made me think that the quest was important to warrant his personal attention and that our chances of success were greatly increased.   Rhizome's roleplay is top notch and is he stands as an example of how Druids should be played.

//Personal note:  Don't let one comment bring you down.  I gaurantee that is not the general feeling of the players on the server.  I would be honored to have you on any quest that I am a part of.   Especially after our little scrap with Blood Har!   Plus I would like to thank you for all the work you have done behind the scenes.

Second Rufus:  Again I had only heard whispers of the mysterious Rufus.  Again...  his presence added content and the success of the quest was increased.  Then I witnessed his unleashed power as we journeyed.  It added a face and a voice to the legend.

So...  just consider the role that Epic characters play here on Layonara.  It is just not that they are Uber... they are players, who's characters have played a major role in shaping Layonara's history.  

*steps off the soap box =)