Somethings I should explain about the 'Da Plan' RP to take down the Gloom.

[AbnerMojo]

I just figured it was worth taking a moment to put this up, and explain a few things to avoid problems later.

First off, this is really a all about RP thing here. As such it isn't about going and killing a monster, collecting XP and True, and leaving. It is no where near that simple.

What this is really about is a story, a story of three Halfling friends getting together, coming up with a crazy idea, and working to see if they can do it. And really that is the whole point to it first and foremost.

So I think if your interested in being apart of it you have to ask yourself, as a player, is this how I wanna spend my time? A lot of heavy RP, a lot of material gathering, a lot of talking, and little experience or True, and a good possibility of it all being for nothing and my character getting killed.

See this is really kind of a 'Heist' RP more then it is a matter of getting the strongest game statistic wise characters together to take down a game statistic tough monster. Which is why it is so challenging, to take what are fairly low level characters, and plan something, and then follow it out to where they can take down a creature like this.

I.E. If your more a WOW type player, then a PnP player, this probably won't interest you. In fact it will most likely annoy you.

I just wanna make it clear here, this whole thing is about the role playing of characters to rise to what is a essentially impossible challenge. And really if they succeed or not shouldn't be the point. The point should be the fun had Rping the things they need to do all the way to the conclusion.

Playing a rogue character I can tell you, while many people are great Rpers here, a lot of the time spent playing is devoted to three things, XP, CNR, and gathering True. And it can be a bit all to 'mechanical' in a way. As characters mostly made up of fighting and magic types follow a rinse and repeat cycle of fighter fight, healer heal, caster cast, repeat on next group of monsters. Playing becomes more about time management, getting the most of those three things in the least amount of time.

Which as a rogue character can be a bit, well boring. There is no time to sneak or scout, the party just moves ahead like a steam roller over the monsters. There is no time to lay traps for an ambush, or pause to disarm a trap, cause character A in the party has an item which makes it O.K. To set that trap off with out regard, and character B has a spell with such an such game mechanic properties. And with so many high strength warriors, why lock pick, just break the few locked doors down. All in all, this common approach to adventuring gets my character killed quite a bit, because other then his back stab, what else can a rogue offer but to sit in the back and use missile weapons because that is the 'smart' thing to do game mechanic wise.

I am not trying to offend anyone, or criticize how they play, I'm just pointing out how this thing is different. There won't be a lot of XP, or Gold, or nifty stat improving item in it. This will all be about the characters interacting, and trying to meet a goal for just the sake of meeting a goal. In short, think of it as a quest RP, but with really lousy XP and no reward. If after all that your still interested, then please, get involved. And if you think it just is not for you, well thats just as fine too. You should play how you want to play.

I'm just worried that the whole thing can get derailed, with people having their character join in, then either getting bored because they aren't getting XP, CNR, or Gold. Or worse, having hard feelings cause they think their limited time to play is being wasted. And that would really be a shame.

[steverimmer]

No I'm sure that most people who've been to the area realise that any 'serious plan' to clean that area is doomed to failure, without at least a bunch of epic's going along to help.  Therefore I guessed, and I suspect most others did too that this is more of an RP event or events.  Which is great

So count me in...Bil will be right behind you!

[gilshem ironstone]

I for one am very excited to help lay this plan in whatever way I can.  And to boot, it is going to be fun to create an optimistic view on heroic deeds and the like.  So I very much look forward to intense planning and comraderie whether or not we get eviscerated, for many again, by that nightmarish Gloom.

[Zelda1]

All my characters are meant more for RP than bashing anyway. They can be tanks if they want to... but they keep their day jobs. I'll look forward to something new other than buff, bash, rest, buff, bash, rest. Count Rissa in.

[Chongo]

AbnerMojo - 11/21/2006  11:53 AM

Which as a rogue character can be a bit, well boring. There is no time to sneak or scout, the party just moves ahead like a steam roller over the monsters. There is no time to lay traps for an ambush, or pause to disarm a trap, cause character A in the party has an item which makes it O.K. To set that trap off with out regard, and character B has a spell with such an such game mechanic properties. And with so many high strength warriors, why lock pick, just break the few locked doors down. All in all, this common approach to adventuring gets my character killed quite a bit, because other then his back stab, what else can a rogue offer but to sit in the back and use missile weapons because that is the 'smart' thing to do game mechanic wise.

I can assure you that rogue skills are needed continually throughout the CR levels.  And I'm not talking about sneak attacks, I'm talking about seeing the overlapping epic traps in Milara's areas, the dc 65 epic sonic heading into the abyss (if you are trying to steal it that is ), the majority of unbreakable doors that have locks on them...

Good rogue skills are needed.  And it's a real shining moment when you're the guy with 26 skill points in 10 areas while everyone else has had to split it two ways.

Now all we have to do from here is form a secret society dedicated to killing the mage pixies.

[Filatus]

*grins* The pixie killing society is far from secret.

[AbnerMojo]

Wow, well I'll look forward to when my character can get to those areas. But right now at the low levels, even though I have been maxing out my pick locks, disarm traps, and other major rogue skills, I have except on quest found few places to use them on Mistone, and the parts of Dreger I have been to. Most of the pickable locks I come across have DC's of 133, and the few regular traps I have found have DC's way above my levels ability to even try. (Automatic Failures, even to flag.) So yeah, it will be great when I get to the skill level in game to do that stuff, by right now at ninth level, I'm pretty much stuck as the guy people call to pick Storan's lock to get Bodak teeth. Sorry if I am sounding critical here, I guess since I only play one character who is a rogue, well it is easy to get frustrated with how much the lower levels can be geared to like Zelda1 put it, 'buff, bash, rest, buff, bash, rest.' So I really am looking forward to trying this plan, because it will rely on trap use a lot. And it can not be rushed in the normal way.

[Tanman]

I can tell you that there are places on Mistone that a rogue is needed to sneak, or pick locks even at lvl 9. Some people requested that they needed Rose to go to these places for that specific purpose. Rogues are a necessity, and it really depends on the party you go with. And even more so on quests when you can use dice rolls for move silent and hide checks. I guess the group that you hang out with also neeed to recognise the need for a rogue and setting traps. Their trap setting helps a lot if set properly!

AND don't ask me where these are....that will spoil the fun.  

[Hellblazer]

as for the playing of a rogue being boring. It depends on your party that you are with and how from the start of the trip you rp your char on being proactive in wanting to sneak and lure.
  See Ferrit is a rogue, and when she goes out on a trip with her friends (note that Ferrit is not my char), she does goes ahead, spotting the enemies and also lures them back to us in small numbers.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Pyyran looked at the notice, and, having met the Gloom a few times, laughed nervously and prayed a bit of luck Uilliam's way, because "they'll all be slaughtered out of hand by that thing."

Tyeaan looked at it, checked his notes, saw the phrase "Wild Magic" and decided against.

Grok is illiterate. *Giggle.* Because otherwise he would help. INT 6'll do that to you.

Ceviren hasn't seen it; he's been too busy making potions.

As a player, I can pretty much guarantee that you're all going to die horrible horrible deaths, but at the same time, had I a character who WOULD and COULD help, I'd be right there with you. (Hint: You'll need a mid-to-high level Shadowdancer who maxed Set Trap from 1st level to ever dream of killing the Gloom with overlapping traps.)

It's a quest I wholeheartedly support, even though my characters might not.

Some comments for you as a rogue... Quests are your way to go. In that slog from about 8th to about 12th, you'll get BORED without them, and you can be darned useful in them. The locks you see with DC 133 are unpickable, because they lead to things the team doesn't want us accessing without the proper key (like player housing). The highest the game mechanics will allow you to get your Open Lock skill is +100 or so, and then burning some epic lockpicks is still not going to get the job done (you'll be one point shy, taking 20).

I'm not sure where I was taking this post, anymore.

[AbnerMojo]

And that was my point, except for quest, my character never gets to really use his skills. As for other places on Mistone, I'm completely baffled as to where they could be. I have litterally sneaked solo all across the place. And I either find traps an locks I can't do anything with, or I can't go any further on my own. I mean do I need to go back and revisit some places like the bottom of Broken Dungeon? All the doors an traps had DC's of 133 when I was there on my own. Do the DC's on things change? Cause I have been maxing out my rogue skills with every level, and still have not found much I can use them on.

[AbnerMojo]

Oh Thanks Steve, I was writing that when you posted the answer to my question about DC's.

[Hellblazer]

AbnerMojo - 11/21/2006  3:53 PM  And that was my point, except for quest, my character never gets to really use his skills. As for other places on Mistone, I'm completely baffled as to where they could be. I have litterally sneaked solo all across the place. And I either find traps an locks I can't do anything with, or I can't go any further on my own. I mean do I need to go back and revisit some places like the bottom of Broken Dungeon? All the doors an traps had DC's of 133 when I was there on my own. Do the DC's on things change? Cause I have been maxing out my rogue skills with every level, and still have not found much I can use them on.

 if you cant find traps or undo them, that is because you didnt put enough points into the spot and traps skills.

[AbnerMojo]

Uhm, I have been. I put has many points between levels in those skills specifically as it will let me. And what I'm saying is that they either are not there, or that they have high DC's meant for much higher level characters.

[Weeblie]

There are traps for all level ranges, I belive. Same with locks.

The trick is to find them.

[DeadHead Fred]

Not to hijack this already hijacked thread, but why do rogues have to search to find something to justify their existence?  Fighters don't have to search for things to hack, clerics don't have to search for undead to cleanse, wizards don't have to search for things to blast, even driuds don't have to search for furry creatures to hug.

It seems to me there should be that door in Red Light Caves that everyone knows about (because you run right past it as you go down deeper), but that you can't get through without your handy rogue (it doesn't have to be there, but you get the idea).

Most places adventurers would go should have something requiring rogues.  They don't have to be required to get through, but if you can get past the challenge, there'd be something worth getting to.

Ok, enough hijacking.  I'll surrender peacefully to the authorities...

[Chongo]

Buy some gloves and a belt.  It'll get you +9 to disable and open lock.  Which is a huge benefit.  I think I only have 25 points in disable trap, but I can recover a dc 65 with the belt of utility, gloves of mischief, a good bard, and some standard stat buffs.  Team game right?