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Author Topic: Summoner Character Build?  (Read 177 times)

ccroft323

Summoner Character Build?
« on: April 09, 2018, 02:17:58 am »
Hello all,

Wasn't really sure where the best place to put this was, so general discussion seemed like a good choice. I had an idea for a potentially interesting character concept based around doing a lot of summoning as the primary method of damage dealing. I was wondering if this was really a possibility in the NWN engine, and if it is, if anyone had any ideas about the best way of making it happen mechanically. 

Thanks!
"If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you." -Steven Wright
 

Chazzler

Re: Summoner Character Build?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2018, 08:42:16 am »
NWN Engine gives room for one summoned creature, a familiar and a dominated creature at the same time.
So, en Enchanter Wizard, a familiar and lots of summons ought to do the trick. In order for this to work, one would of course need to be able to cast wards on the creatures summoned, otherwise the simple masses of creatures at some places would decimate the summons.
Unfortunately towards such a build you would get slightly less experience points per slain monster according to the amount of non-player creatures in your party.
 

ccroft323

Re: Summoner Character Build?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2018, 12:56:33 pm »
Thank you for the response. Do you know how well summoning might scale through levels? I wouldn't want to make a character that, while interesting, doesn't put enough forward to be truly useful to a party.
"If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you." -Steven Wright
 

Chazzler

Re: Summoner Character Build?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 08:54:51 am »
Summoned creatures scale nicely  throughout the levels. Especially if they are warded and buffed.
Unfortunately for some characters who have the deity field filled on creation, the 9th level summon is an elder earth elemental, which does not stand much chance against most creature masses, especially without a buffing.
Leaving the diety field blank gives wizards, sorcerers and (I think) bards access to arcane summons, which are constructs.

The more to-hit targets and hitters a party has, the better the chances of each party member survival is.
 

silverblades

Re: Summoner Character Build?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2018, 04:31:55 pm »
LORE has some excellent information regarding deity specific summons. I will say Lucinda is one of the more powerful summons that I have seen as first hand knowledge being able to cast 9th lvl. summons, but I believe the 8th lvl is superior.  We don't get it much now with a smaller player base but summoning undead was pretty much frowned upon in parties and still is in a RP world sense. But rolling  solo should be fine if you go that route. ( If you go Palemaster you can summon a Lich which can summon even more ! )

As with all summons they have their quirkiness. Caster summons will 1. self buff, 2.  cast offensive spells, 3.  engage melee.
 So if you think your caster summons is going to run to your rescue while your running away with a mob on your back think again. Their very mechanical, if you understand that and plan ahead then their very useful.  I will also add that they need buffs, Strength Dex Con, at the minimum, haste if you can afford it. this lowers your available spells but necessary if you plan to roll with a summons.

Also you must be good at commanding them with quick keys as they attack anything.  If they get surrounded forget it. write them off,  learn and try again.

If you want to see Lucinda summons send me a PM with a time slot and Ill Jump in.

Regarding Familiars,  Not to be used after i would say 8th safely for combat.  Most powerful I thought was panther. Just remember if they get killed you get reduced stats.  I have a Druid and the Dire wolf is OK but my character is only 7th. so I cant attest to its usefulness at higher levels.  I also buff the wolf just so it can survive and I don't get dinged with my familiars death.  If I know I'm going to loose I run away then un-summon.  That way I'm out of range of spawns and they don't follow me.

Notes regarding high levels 25+ and summons.  I rarely see players use summons if at all.  their use can mean a quick death to a party if its not under control. It can also get killed rather easy if its out of control( surrounded) which means you just lost alot of good spells that could of been used on party members. Now you have to wait to get your spells back ( rest timer) then do another rollout of buff spells which at high levels takes a few minutes for casters to get them out after all is said and done.
hmm.. I wonder where this  goes.
 

davidhoff

Re: Summoner Character Build?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2018, 08:54:00 pm »
I've seen Silverblade's Shield golem in action and he's quite impressive.  I've never been that big a fan of summons myself, mainly because some spells you or your party cast can have your summon turn on you or the party (like darkness or grease to name two).  However they are neat and useful with proper buffs and precautions.  At higher levels (especially in bigger parties) it usually goes quicker and smoother without summons but they can still be fun.  My wizard Tralek has used his Gate spell to get past some tough opponents, but it only lasts a short duration.  The mithril golem is also a good summon.  There's a chart somewhere on arcane and diety summons that tells you what you'll get.  I'd say the golem summons are probably the best IMO.
 

Acacea

Re: Summoner Character Build?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 09:02:03 pm »
Yeah, vanilla NWN doesn't really do "summoners", especially since familiars aren't for fighting. Since anyone can cast the same summon as you, it doesn't really feel like building a summoner to me, if that makes any sense - vs building an enchanter, who actually needs to be able to beat SR and saves in order to succeed at enslaving minds. Depending on if you wanted the real concept behind summoning (ie "from beyond") or just the experience of having minions, you're either kinda stuck (because the RP build gives no real benefits or perks that help develop it) or going with something like Chazz suggested with a more generalized take than summoning per se.

(By default, arcane summons go off alignment. Remember that deity field and arcane devotion options exist to RP true devotion to a single deity, not just a cosmetic option or to get better stuff. Nowadays there are obviously less eyes in the sky and things going on, so it doesn't come up much, but on quest or about with a DM around you would be expected to RP that devotion and uphold the dogma you adopted!)
 

Chuckles_McChuck

Re: Summoner Character Build?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2018, 11:37:37 am »
For the Enchanter route also know that Dominate Monster is a 9th level spell so you will be waiting until level 17 to get it.  I also believe a lot of creatures in those high level areas are immune to mind-effecting spells, or highly resistant if not (I play an enchanter, but she is too low level to test this out right now).

Constructs are definitely great, but if I recall the level 8 construct is an Iron Golem, which you don't want to use with a party unless you make sure they are buffed to be immune to its acid spray.
 

Chazzler

Re: Summoner Character Build?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2018, 06:03:14 pm »
Yeah, Dominate Monster is a 9th circle spell, so it is a long way to get it.
Then there are hold person, hold monster, dominate person, confusion and some other enchantments as well to help around.
8th level summon in golems is a Shield Golem, which does not have acidic spray but has some offensive spells and an aura that's either stun or something else.
 

silverblades

Re: Summoner Character Build?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2018, 03:18:38 am »
Shield golem has aura electric for damage, and is hasted. casts 2 spells before entering melee. missile storm (lesser, greater ??)  and lightning balls. Extremely useful golem and AI is very smart on this golem. As Ive stated previous i feel is superior to 9th lvl mithril golem which has damage immunity /15 but is slow and AI gets stuck wondering what to do. Does not cast spells, essentially a expensive meat shield. better off with a deathwail or PWK if you built your Wiz correctly. This golem progression only applies to Lucinda specific summons to my knowledge.
hmm.. I wonder where this  goes.