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Varka

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« on: August 25, 2005, 11:02:00 pm »
”Dice Bag RP”

This post is only to be answered by DM´s.
Please respect this PC as I am trying to get a better picture here.


Well the title says it all.
Often when you are on a quest and lets say someone trys to …”find a secret door” – it goes the follwing way:


Player: *searches for a secret door*  - Player waits around 1-2 min
GM: (Tell mode) make a search roll
Player: Fiddles with the dice bag (maybe makes a mistake) and rolls:
GM: Sorry you didn’t find anything.

This is the easy way of what I have seen…Then there are the once which after the GM says “make a search roll” buff to get a better roll as they have gotten the idea (I will not tell how) that there could be something….or they try more search rolls…

My point:
That every PC has a dicebag is a good thing BUT. I think that it would be better if the GM makes the Rolls in secret for PC.

This would makes it easier, quicker – and more in the spirit of the RP.

Example:
Player: *searches for a secret door* (if the PC wants to buff then it should be here without knowing if drinking a potion/using a spell will do any good)  - Player waits around 1-2 min
GM: Sorry you didn’t find anything. -  END OF STORY

What is your responds?
 

Lord Crovax

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    RE: ”Dice Bag RP”
    « Reply #1 on: August 26, 2005, 02:12:00 am »
    Quote
    Varka - 8/25/2005  12:02 AM

    ”Dice Bag RP”

    This post is only to be answered by DM´s.
    Please respect this PC as I am trying to get a better picture here.


    Well the title says it all.
    Often when you are on a quest and lets say someone trys to …”find a secret door” – it goes the follwing way:


    Player: *searches for a secret door*  - Player waits around 1-2 min
    GM: (Tell mode) make a search roll
    Player: Fiddles with the dice bag (maybe makes a mistake) and rolls:
    GM: Sorry you didn’t find anything.

    This is the easy way of what I have seen…Then there are the once which after the GM says “make a search roll” buff to get a better roll as they have gotten the idea (I will not tell how) that there could be something….or they try more search rolls…

    My point:
    That every PC has a dicebag is a good thing BUT. I think that it would be better if the GM makes the Rolls in secret for PC.

    This would makes it easier, quicker – and more in the spirit of the RP.

    Example:
    Player: *searches for a secret door* (if the PC wants to buff then it should be here without knowing if drinking a potion/using a spell will do any good)  - Player waits around 1-2 min
    GM: Sorry you didn’t find anything. -  END OF STORY

    What is your responds?    


    Well I do not DM here, though I have on other RP servers. With that in mind, the GM rolling the checks for you wouldn't be feasable as in DM mode, they have 127 in ALL skills, which means they would always roll high, so in order to provide a fair roll they would have to posses a creature with decent skills, then give them a dice bag and then roll, hoping no one attacks this new creature that suddenly appeared.

    Best way to deal with Dice Bag, tell them to Roll, unless they know why they are Rolling IC before being asked, any Buffing they do is OOC and considered Metagaming, which would be up the the GM in question and the servers rules on how thats dealt with. but more often then not I find plays mature enough to not do so, bought only buff I see used from time to time is Indentify, which makes sense as thats what it is for.

    Hope this helped some.
     

    Dorganath

    RE: ”Dice Bag RP”
    « Reply #2 on: August 26, 2005, 06:10:00 am »
    Well I do GM here...so here's my take...
      First, we GMs do have a dicebag we can use to roll FOR a particular character, so we can force the issue if the players aren't cooperating, or to simulate some sudden event, etc.  But personally I'd rather have the player roll because a) it gives them a feeling of having some kind of influence over their character's fate, and b) GMs have enough to do already in many cases.  On the latter, we're sometimes fielding requests from several people who want to try this or that.  The dice bag we have must be targeted, which takes time.  It's far simpler to send the player a tell with the roll we want them to make. 
      Add to that, I'm going to make players roll for every request, whether there's a chance of them succeeding or not...such as a search for secret doors where there are none.  If a player with insanely high search/spot modifiers goes to look for secret doors, rolls a natural 20 and ends up with a modified roll of 45 or so, and then finds out from me that he didn't find anything, that's up to the player to interpret as a) there's nothing to find or b) the hidden doors are REALLY well hidden.  So making them roll is going to give the impression that there might be a chance for success rather than simply responding "You found nothing" without rolling.
      Now then, regarding buffing before rolling...  In PnP, if a character wanted to find something or lift something really heavy or whatever, chances are they'd stack the deck in their favor by casting whatever spell, drinking whatever potion or putting on some bit of enhancing jewelry or other equipment.  Also in PnP time only moves forward as the GM dictates.  So, if there is a bunch of things going on at one time, a round or turn may pass very slowly.  As such, potions are not going to expire as quickly.  They expire in game time, not real-time.  Unfortunately, in NWN time marches on regardless of what the characters and GMs are doing at the time.  If a character were to buff, then request an action from the GM, wait for the GM to accept the action and ask for a roll and then finaly roll, the potion/spell could very well have worn off by that time, when in "reality" it wouldn't have.  So for that purpose people will buff right before making the roll.
      How I personally feel about this is that for non-combat/non-urgent situations, this is probably OK to do for the reasons I described above.  If, however, a situation arose where 2 characters were RPing some conflict and it came to *emoted* blows, it's very inappropriate in such situations to buff before rolling in those cases.  I look at it sort of in the same vein as "Take 20" for lock picking and such.  In no-stress/non-urgent situations, the characters should be able to take every possible advantage.
      This of course is my opinion only.
     

    vgn

    RE: ”Dice Bag RP”
    « Reply #3 on: August 26, 2005, 12:17:00 pm »
    As a GM here I'll tell you I use the dicebag both by forcing rolls on people or by asking for rolls from people, but I also expect that if you want to do something that you will also roll on your own and not make me ask for it.

    A few examples:
    1. Player wants to search for a secret door. Player types something to the effect of *Walks along the wall looking and feeling for oddities and possible doors.* Then I would hope you would then take the initiative to roll a search check without me asking. If you don't, I'll ask for one, so you might as well do it.

    2. A room has a magical aura in it and those who fail a will save need to run out of the room. In this case you didn't decide to do anything, this is a check I wanted. So I'm going to either force a roll on you or ask you to roll.

    3. I notice you seem stuck on a tricky riddle or puzzle. I may force an int roll on you to possibly give you a hint if it's high enough. (I've always felt if you have a smart character the player shouldn't be completely punished if he himself isn't as smart as the character.)

    So basically, if I want some information I'll either force a roll or ask for it. If you want to try something whether it is searching, bending an iron bar, etc. Then please say what you are doing and then make some rolls you think would be appropriate. If I think something different applies to what you are doing, I'll ask for it, but common sense goes a long way and you should have an idea of what roll(s) will be needed.

    As far as buffing. If I force a roll or ask for a roll in my opinion, pretty much only buffs currently active should apply. If on the other hand you are trying to do something and you want to buff before doing so, then go ahead. Buff up, say what you are doing, and make the roll. Or say what you are doing, buff, and make the roll.
     

    Lalaith Va'lash

    RE: ”Dice Bag RP”
    « Reply #4 on: August 26, 2005, 01:07:00 pm »
    "If a player with insanely high search/spot modifiers goes to look for secret doors, rolls a natural 20 and ends up with a modified roll of 45 or so, and then finds out from me that he didn't find anything, that's up to the player to interpret as a) there's nothing to find or b) the hidden doors are REALLY well hidden. " - Dorganath
      Hehe.. sorry had to chime in.  That sounds SO familiar Dorganath.
      But if its a natural 20, and there is somthing there, would you automatically give it to them regaurdless of their modifier?  or not?
      LV
     

    Dorganath

    RE: ”Dice Bag RP”
    « Reply #5 on: August 26, 2005, 01:21:00 pm »
    Quote
    Lalaith Va'lash - 8/26/2005 3:07 PM   "If a player with insanely high search/spot modifiers goes to look for secret doors, rolls a natural 20 and ends up with a modified roll of 45 or so, and then finds out from me that he didn't find anything, that's up to the player to interpret as a) there's nothing to find or b) the hidden doors are REALLY well hidden. " - Dorganath
      Hehe.. sorry had to chime in.  That sounds SO familiar Dorganath.
      But if its a natural 20, and there is somthing there, would you automatically give it to them regaurdless of their modifier?  or not?
      LV
     
    [/b]
      Maybe. :)
      The key word there is "if", of course.
      Even so, if I have in mind a DC 50 to accomplish something and a character has only +25 in that particular skill, even a natural 20 isn't going to do it.  The point here is that you may make a great roll and have crazy modifiers, but if I tell you that you didn't find anything, you need to decide for yourself whether or not you truly believe there is nothing there.
      Now, what I might do, however, is if the modified roll is a success AND the roll was a natural 20, I might assign a greater degree of success...i.e. not only did you find the secret door but the secret pressure plate to open it as well.
      One example I can think of was GMing a trip to the Great Library on a CDQ.  The main character rolled while looking for some particular books against a challenging DC.  Not only did her roll succeed, but she rolled a natural 20.  So the result was she found exactly what she was looking for and she also found the one book in the entire library that would advance the quest if and only if she came upon it. 
     
     

    Talan Va'lash

    RE: ”Dice Bag RP”
    « Reply #6 on: August 26, 2005, 02:05:00 pm »
    In official non-variant rules, there are not critical sucesses/critical failures on skill rolls, but thats a rule that half the DMs use a variant for.
     

     

    anything