108 Port Hempstead Locks the Doors

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Nothing is served by outing people who break the rules and are dealt with in an OOC manner unless a permanent banning occurs as a result.  All it results in is people engaging in "name tag metagaming" pointing and yelling "THIEF!!!!" at some person who may have just made an honest mistake.  So as a result, this person, new to the world now gets ostracized for a mistake and ends up just leaving and telling everyone he knows that Layonara is a hostile place filled with metagaming griefers.

Who does that help?  

That's pretty much how we have dealt with this kind of thing and how we will continue to deal with it.  

It's been posted publicly that there were thefts.  That is all the warning the player-base needs to make sure their doors are locked and their goods are secured.  We don't need to be pointing fingers.

*Nods in agreement.* I'm right there with you that the ostracization of these two is by no means needful or wanted. If it were possible to let people know without the two receiving negative consequences other than those already in effect, I'd be all for it (as mentioned above). However, you're assuredly right... I don't really believe that every last person on Layo would be as forgiving as myself, even for a first offense.

[Hellblazer]

It might also be that people simply don't read the rules. It wouldn't be the first time I see this happen.  If they do not read the rules, they can think that this PW is okay with stealing, other server have such installed that it is okay for their player base to pick pocket or steal if they manage to get inside a place where things can be stolen.

I am not saying that this is right.. for this server. But we do have to be mindful that they might have been accustomed to an other style of playing, and if they are new here, they will need some time to adjust to our rules and gaming style.

As a though maybe asking certain and random questions about the rules at player creation might be an effective way to make sure the player base would read the rules.

[Dorganath]

Yeah um...

http://forums.layonara.com/character-submissions/114377-guidelines-characters-submissions-prestige-classes-other-information.html

This contains a link to the player rules.

Further, character approvers have a lot to do and an unenviable job as it is.  People get twisted out of shape because they ask for further clarification about some aspect or other of their characters. A pop quiz on the rules on top of that...well, not really something we should need to do, nor really want to do.

Your point is well-taken, but we flip back to "Ignorance of the rules/law is no excuse."  Other worlds may allow pickpocketing and other forms of stealing, other worlds may rely heavily on the FR pantheon, magic level and such, and still other worlds probably have a vastly different set of systems than we do.  The fact is, people go to one server or the other and need to expect to conform to that world, not the other way around.

I think this thread has started to run its course.  In all the playing of Devil's Advocate and demands for identities of the accused, we're losing sight of the bigger issue:

The doors of an in-game charity had to be locked because people were stealing donations.
Explain it away all you want, but the net effect is that things have been diminished because of this.

[Hellblazer]

I never said that we should conform to them, far from that. But being lenient is a long way better than going public with name pointing and tagging someone with something he did, when he might have been used to play like that for years and not yet adjusted to all the changes. Even if he read or not the rules, habits doesn't go away over night.

Now it's unfortunate that this happens and will probably have me and the other angels rethink our policy of free look at our stocks.

[Serissa]

Nope.  No matter what, I wouldn't want to close the Angels' chests.  I remember the old Orc Bashers Shop in Hlint, when you could still go in and look.  That was my education on equipment--I'd never have survived without that place.

[Dorganath]

I never said that we should conform to them, far from that. But being lenient is a long way better than going public with name pointing and tagging someone with something he did, when he might have been used to play like that for years and not yet adjusted to all the changes. Even if he read or not the rules, habits doesn't go away over night.

Now it's unfortunate that this happens and will probably have me and the other angels rethink our policy of free look at our stocks.

I think we're on the same page then.

We were lenient in that the individuals were not permanently banned on the spot and that their names were not pasted up for all to see.    The individuals have been given an opportunity to adjust and hopefully have an enriching experience here.

All I'm saying is, the excuse of "habit" only goes so far.  And while I firmly acknowledge that this is not RL, RL is in fact filled with examples of this with far less tolerance.  The best example I can give is if we substitute "NWN PW's" for "countries" and then see how tolerant some countries are about the breaking of their laws, even something that may be legal in one's country of origin.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

I find it really sad when one person, whether on purpose or accident, regardless of whether they know the rules, ruins things for other people. I dont mean just here.  I mean with anything