The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: _M_O_B_ on June 05, 2006, 11:07:20 pm
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Dorganath - 6/6/2006 6:05 AM That characters will not be transferable has also been known for a long time. What is meant by a character wipe is a decision on whether or not existing characters will be allowed to be recreated in the next version of Layonara, or if people must create all new characters. Clearly the process is much different, but experience, status, and whatever else a character may have accumulated could in theory be returned to the new character. Whether or not this happens has yet to be decided, but it is the topic for another thread.
so what does everyone think? Personally I think SOME characters should be transferred over, I mean, how can we RP a whole bunch of legendary heroes disappearing from Layo? Some kind of plague that only effects heroes? But as to WHO should be transferred over, maybe one character per person over a certain lvl? Dunno...
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Complete wipe.
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Well, we have a couple of options. First, we could move to another Prime (planet). Second, and more attractively, we could set it so far into the future they're all dead, anyhow.
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Keep the same characters, but have them all start out again from level one? Means that people will get to keep their characters, and any RP value as well. Don't know why everyone would be extremely weak though... perhaps due to the cataclysmic events of the final showdown with Blood? Meh, just an idea
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But those events are happening relatively soon, and we've got a boatload of time before the NWN2 switch.
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Personally, I'd like to see it set fairly far into the future, a few hundred years at least. A whole new campaign. I'm not sure what's planned, but one can hope.
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Hmm... good points those, the finale thing is happening rather soon, and yeah, having it set futher on would make sense, and means we'd be able to have a whole new campaign. Although, having it set in the future brings up the question of how far in the future, as most elves should still be alive (going by the average age of elves).
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Heh. Not after a thousand or two years.
Remember that in magical worlds, technology rarely thrives, so we shouldn't have any reason to worry about the level of technology increasing.
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apart from the question of whether any characters are started at a level above 1 due to whatever in NWN1 layonara, I think players should be able to recreate a character that they played in NWN1 if that character could conceivably be alive in the NWN2 time period. Theres a lot of leeway with that, elves, wizards, favoured clerics... the average joe human fighter probably wouldn't make it though... unless you wanted to play that half elven ranger as a grizzled old man who became a druid or something hehe. Would be kinda fun to play your characters when they're old and crotchety *grins*
Though I bet many players will choose to start fresh even if the option is open to bring one of their characters back.
As for why they've lost levels... I'm more prone to gloss over that fact rather than create an elaborate story for why (unless it fits somehow.) I don't like modifying the IC story due to an OOC event such as transition to NWN2.
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Heh... there is a giant thread about this here (http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25185) where a ton of people already weighed in on this subject.
Having everyone keep their levels is impossible (no epic levels), so there would be math and characters below a certain level would have no reason to be rebuilt in the first place. It also seems like it would be a silly amount of work for a setting that the development people essentially have a fresh start on to tweak and mess around with as they wish... I don't really want to force the same setting on a new game when there is a chance to go crazy and make it how they want it ideally.
So, as I voted there, I'm for the total character wipe, where the setting takes place far enough in the distance that the only thing remaining of the Dragoncalled are their stories and their bloodlines (and not so far in the distance that these things also are completely gone). OneST8 mentioned the options a really long while back (and I am feeling way too lazy to look for the thread to quote), and one of the options tossed out were epic (World Leader..whatever!) responsibilities of the line... This kind of reminds me of people like Kobal, who is restoring his ancestral home under Mount Norand and all that after doing all these epic things to reclaim it...destroying a bloodpool, for starters. Kobal's descendant should still be ruling that down the line when the story picks back up, and of course the only person who should be playing it is Harlas.
That's just one example... It's not starting with extra levels (as is suggested when you say "only certain people get their levels back"), or the hereditary +2342 Axe of Doom. It's just starting at the same level as everyone else, with some piece of a story that people have worked so hard on and the in-game responsibility on top of it.
It seems like the best option all around, for the people running and making it (fresh start), the newer players (everyone starting at the same level, rather than feeling under the shadow of the many epic characters), and the older players attached to either epic characters or ones who would still qualify as having made a serious mark on the world (able to progress from the same point as everyone else, but still have a character with a piece of that attachment and years-long development.)
Edit-- Couldn't stand to quote someone unsourced... I like the bare idea of this as I said, with a lot tweaking and maybe broadening it a little.
OneST8 - 2/7/2006 7:12 PM
When the world migrates, it'll be the start of a "new age" and all the current characters will become part of the "history of the current age" in some way. For instance Epic characters will become "Legendary" and their "children" will potentially inherit various things from their epic bloodline. (Possibly things like: Fort Raynold, Ashley Temple of Katia, etc where the decendants are the keepers of those places and must defend their bloodline.)
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I really hope we don't have the same characters running around. Many of us have had the same characters for a really long time. I wouldn't mind seeing them put to rest forever. Or in the case of some elves, perhaps made NPC's.
If that is what's going to happen though, I'd like to see notice though, so we can "wrap up" our stories. If that makes sense.
Doesn't really seem to make sense to me to have them continue in the new game sans levels. Part of the character is the levels. It would really be weird. Especially people that are quite famous for doing amazing deeds or whatever.
Not that any of it is mine to decide. Just giving my opinion. Heh.
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I just dont think I could overcome using another year to get to lvl 11. Im not playing like four hours a day, but still I, and everyone else has used lots of time on this.
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Stephen_Zuckerman - 6/6/2006 8:09 PM Remember that in magical worlds, technology rarely thrives, so we shouldn't have any reason to worry about the level of technology increasing.
*shocked* How can you say that! What about all the cute little gnomes running around with their useless inventions, like the potato launcher! Wouldn't it be cool if the potato launcher was a weapon... *stares off blankly into space*
Uh... yes... back on topic, it probably would be better if it was set way into the future, as otherwise it'd be kind of unfair on the shorter lived races.
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Whoa, there is a TON of stuff on that page Acacea linked to, in fact, it was pretty much talking about what's going on here :)
Actually, I think I voted on that poll a while ago... *shrugs* Stupid memory not remembering things... *hits self on head*
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I say complete wipe and whole new campaign...Current Epics get the chance to do some sort of quest to ascend to godhood to replace the ones killed by Blood (or whatever)...if it happens and essentially are out of the game except in place of some of the current gods.
hehe what do you reckon about them apples?
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As many have already said.
Complete wipe, fresh start, new campaign, new characters etc. But it would be cool with some legends/storries of the old epics.
Players can try something new, correct mistakes, go another way....etc.
The team: By making a wipe there are so many things suddenly open - history, able to correct "things/bugs/gaps/holes/etc" in all the experice they have gain from NWN1......balance of players...heck there is a lot.
To MOB: Character Transfer: Two words: - Who and fairplay?
If you look at it really really basically - How can you aruge that one player behind a screen is better than the other one?
For me (objective) - it does not matter if a player has played 1,2,5,10,20 or 20000000 months of Layo. What happens to one player should happen to all players.
(Subjective - Varka would of course survive all of you guys...somehow...... ;) )
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Actually....after more thinking...
I think it should be a total wipe, with everyone making new characters. It'd be good to see the people play different characters than they'd be used to. Also ti'd be interesting to see all the bloodlines and children of the PC's in NWN1 Layo
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GhostWhoWalks - 6/6/2006 1:15 AM
Or in the case of some elves, perhaps made NPC's.
I want Bjornigar to be immortalized as a grizzled old quarry boss npc in the crafthall, yelling at newbies to fetch him ingots and teach them how to smelt and make armor. "ye wanna learn da riddle oh da steel lad? git yer ah pickaxe and start chippin!"
Also, one must bribe him with some tavern food or a big fat mutton for him to even initialize the quest :P
As for new Characters, beware Ogzughimmal, Zigfried the Bardarian and Gromak Kneesplitter... They are insane.
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like most of you already said I't like to see a complete wipe. give all of us a change to work on our current characters children/offspring, or start all over again with something that you haven't done before. The options that a compleet wipe would open op for use all are big. I'm already thinking of a character I could use in layonara/NWN2, And I'd like that one to be of the same bloodline as my current character Sonya DarkAngel. The way things look right now I could make about 3 different kind of offspring for Sonya. :P But i'll make just one for her, 2 at the very most. I'll just wait for the team to make a desicion on this subject. But I still think I compleet wipe would be more fair to everyone. no mather how frustraiting it might be for the players who spent years on the current character. i do hope that the palyers who are now against a comleet whipe will come to see the posibilities they will get when the team will deside for a compleet whipe, and years into the future.
your fantasy and creativity and the setting of layonara/NWN2 will the only limitations.
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Layonara under NWN2 will be a different campaign completely. It will be set in the aftermath of the war with Blood, whether good or bad outcome. Clearly this has not concluded yet, so even thinking too much about how things will be can quickly become a futile exercise. How far in the future the new campaign takes place has not yet been decided. Really, until this happens, it's really difficult to discuss a character wipe (or lack thereof) with any certainty.
Whatever option we decide on, however Leanthar decides to position the new campaign, the decision on characters and their disposition will be handled as fairly and transparently as possible.
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I would think that epics and high-level, well-known characters might need a wipe (otherwise, how would you explain their sudden loss of power/ability), but new characters could easily be knocked down a few pegs - a lot of people... well, some people, spend a lot of time coming up with an acceptable backstory for their character, and it'd be a shame never to see those characters develop.
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It's true that a lot of work has been put into undeveloped characters, and it would indeed be a shame to see them never develop. There is still the problem of, if they spare a few, they'll have to spare them across the board. Same thing for a wipe. If they wipe a few, they'll have to wipe them all, and since it is assumed at this point that the characters will not be transferable to NWN 2, planning on a wipe is safer than surprising everyone last minute.
"Sorry folks, we got fooled ourselves, start on those new bios." (Imagine how that would go over.) At this point, those character bios and developments that so much time was put in to can be used as "guides" to form new characters, and you'll have at least half a year to do that. (From now to January at LEAST.)
Also, I am 100% confident that Epic Characters, Prominent Sub-Epic characters, and Player Run Organizations and Quests WILL be written into History come NWN 2 and the next campaign. The writing, project and GM Teams, however, have a LOT to work on from what I've seen so it's not a high priority, which is why it falls to the players (as Leanthar has been posting about for the past couple months.) GMs already have to do a little summary of ECDQs (Now WLDQs) and they don't all have enough time to make a historical writeup for Layonara. If you want your characters to be remembered for their accomplishments, it's up to you to decide whether they're worth remembering or not, and record them. (Same thing for player run organizations.)
I also want to point out that well over half of the playerbase here was not around before V1 and V2, but Layoanra did go through four Beta stages where the only continent that players could travel on was Mistone. There were only two servers to play on, North Mistone and South Mistone. There were far fewer subraces, no custom PrCs, and the world was pretty much just running off what was found in the initial toolset as L and the Team compiled information and fixed bugs for the later V1 and V2 releases. We started with little come NWN 1 and I think everyone should assume it'll be the same come NWN 2. You can't expect a fully finished world to simply emerge, it's a process and one the players have to be involved with.
What do we know for sure at this point? (Only what the GM team tells us.)
1. They'll be looking in to using NWN 2 as a platform for Layonara in the future.
2. The game will most likely be released in the early fall.
3. The GM toolset will be at least minimally ready by the time Layo 2 is released (if it is).
4. The GM team will work as hard, and possibly harder than every to get us switched over (if we go).
5. We're in good hands. Layonara (for Leanthar) is twenty years old, he knows what he's doing.
6. I am a Stud Muffin.
7. Layonara will rock whether we stay NWN or go NWN 2.
8. This list should have ended at five.
9. It's not even funny any more.
Peace-ness ya'll.
ZV-
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Could you elaborate on point 6? :P
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NO! Let's just use our imaginations - or not - instead.
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if it is indeed set centuries in the future, I'm hoping that the gnomes of Goran will have made the realms an eberron-esque combination of Rennaissance and Industrial ages, circa 1600-1800. It'd be nice to have train stations alongside the shiproutes, and possibly entire nations of sentient work-golems rising against their Goranite masters. There'd have to be talk of their leader, Percy... golem driven mad by the oversummons of Celgar, leading the great mechanic revolution!
Also, we need to get the dragons breeding so they won't go entirely extinct by then, or at least find out what distant realm they travelled from long ago to come to our world for repopulation. You can't have Dungeons and Dragons without the Dragons! Sadly, most of the ones I've met so far are all chromatically mean, save for the gold dragon in my dream. I dunno, maybe the lizardfolk and kobolds of the world will band together under Fisterion's banner and finally make a solid scalykind empire to thwart us in the future. The peoples of light and civilization would be under Rofirein... oh the great era of the 2nd Dragon Wars! (Bloodstone's great "I told you so")
In all, it'd be incredibly gratifying if it turned out that Bloodstone was doing the right thing afterall, having seen the futue where entire nations of witless servants are swept up in the chromoatic vs metallic bloodfeuds. He's actually not that bad if you think about it... other than the return for revenge and lay waste to the masses thing, he was only following his orders and saving the world better than those in "command" of him. Who are we to blame him for being overly efficient in his task, if we give him the task in the 1st place?
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I am for a complete wipe Í see no other logical solutions. letting some people start at higher levels than 1 and others at level 1 would be idotic and unfair to say the least. And halving levels as i suggested in a previous thread would also be odd since alot of characters would be stripped of their prestige classes that way. So I say wipe the whole server, it would also be the solution that would take the least effort for the team.
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Filatus - 6/6/2006 7:44 AM
Could you elaborate on point 6? :P
Ah, that's why I broke my tooth on that pastry... stale chocolate chip my foot, I KNEW it was a platinum armor stud!
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Heh, at least I chose the name Stud-Muffin over Sweet-cheeks.
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Hey Lonn, ever thought about using your talents on the cinematic industry? I bet you'd do a much better job than Uwe Boll ^_^
Alright, ontopic...
I wouldn't mind keeping Syn as a PC on NwN2 for all the work and development i put into my character, though if a wipe is in order, i agree that it should be for everyone without exceptions.
Like the team already said, we'll have to wait and see what's coming up.
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I'm still for a wipe.
And yes you are a stud-muffin ZV... ;)
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Wipe. I like the idea of the campaign a few years (50 or so) in the future from end of this campaign.
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As do I. There are Many High-level characters who joined years before I even had a copy of NWN, who have paved the way for the future of Layonara and affected things in game which burn their name in History. Im looking forward to trying to be one of these people in NWN2.
I understand that for them, it may be gutting to have a Level 36 Character wiped and have to start again. But a new game, a newly designed world.....why not a new character.
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*Varka listens to ZV - listen check 12 + 22 = 34* ....*varka nods in agreement with the drow* (sorry I could not help adding that) ;)
*spot check on the fraises "stud muffin” 1+0 = 1* What? where? Why? who? Muffin? *varka walks out of Hlints north gate in the belief there are muffin somewhere in "the broken halls"*
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The writing, project and GM Teams, however, have a LOT to work on from what I've seen so it's not a high priority, which is why it falls to the players (as Leanthar has been posting about for the past couple months.) GMs already have to do a little summary of ECDQs (Now WLDQs) and they don't all have enough time to make a historical writeup for Layonara. If you want your characters to be remembered for their accomplishments, it's up to you to decide whether they're worth remembering or not, and record them. (Same thing for player run organizations.)
Exactly!
And you can send all of the story-telling goodness to heretic@layonara.com !
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LordCove - 6/7/2006 3:46 AM
As do I. There are Many High-level characters who joined years before I even had a copy of NWN, who have paved the way for the future of Layonara and affected things in game which burn their name in History. Im looking forward to trying to be one of these people in NWN2.
I understand that for them, it may be gutting to have a Level 36 Character wiped and have to start again. But a new game, a newly designed world.....why not a new character.
couldn't agree with you more