Why do Druids get so little respect?

[Ioskeha]

In my year and a half of playing one I have not seen another class get as little respect as a Druid does.  Almost half of my RP with her comes from people going out of their way to make her angry.  And let me tell you that this gets old fast.  It's really no fun to have to RP negative things all the time.  When it comes to battle tactics Druids are alway left out of the planning, from what I've seen.  When I think that any party would like to have us around.  There is no other class that has as much verity as the Druid class does.  We can serve as the main healer (minus res), scout, tank, and supporter.  I know some of it comes from RP, but at times it seems like people break their alignment just to annoy us.

[miltonyorkcastle]

Two things:

1) Druids should expect ill feelings and even fear that represents itself in negative reactions mostly because the class is based around a more secretive source of power. A druid's disdain for many things that are considered civilized not only makes them stand out, but engenders distrust, because, let's face it, people distrust and fear things they don't understand and things that live outside the accepted parts of society.
As a side note, many druids here, I believe, tend to be very outspoken. Tend to.

2) I'm not sure who you've been hanging around, but there are lots of characters around (especially the ranger types, of which there are quite a few) that prefer the company of a druid to that of other classes ~and~ know how to utilize a druid's special abilities. So don't lose heart. Not everyone that calls druids "tree huggers" dislike druids. I actually found it a bit comforting to see your character around the other day, after a long time of not seeing her.

Catch ya IG,

[Laldiien]

Are people going out of their way or just being people? In my experience, druids are tree-hugging, animal-loving, nature worshippers. Go druids. The rest of us, aren't. I have never gone out of my to annoy a druid, but here's an example. I am on my way to the Sielwood when I run past a goblin. As I am smacking down the goblin, when a druid happens by Just after the goblin is dead, the raven starts in. I kill it. Not really muchof a choice, as I can't pacify and I didn't have sanctuary or invis up. As the raven has nothing of interest, I start walking away. The druid starts in on "Why am I killing nature", and "Why am I wasting natures bounty?" yadda yadda. My reply is this. I am perfectly happy to leave nature alone, if nature leaves me alone. If nature decides it doesn't like me, well, may the most sentient win.
  That being said, I have seen some of the best RP out of druids when they are defending what they perceive to be the right thing. But my character really isn't concerned with their dogma, so it slides in one ear and right out the other. Now, at the same time, almost without exception, I have not seen a druid that wasn't a fanatic about it. That get's old, too.
  If people are breaking their alignment just to annoy you, I submit they aren't role playing, they're just being asses.

[LynnJuniper]

Laldiien - 2/20/2007  9:38 PM

Now, at the same time, almost without exception, I have not seen a druid that wasn't a fanatic about it.  That get's old, too.

I think you'd like Kire (a Rayenoir character) If you met him. He makes an awesome non-fanatical druid.

---

On the subject though: I think , personally , if animals could somehow be set to 'passive' we wouldn't have this problem as much. That way it would literally be a conscious choice to attack them (now I can understand something like a bear or even a boar attacking, but deer and such are docile ). That's just my 2 cents.

[Laldiien]

LynnJuniper - 2/20/2007 9:57 PMOn the subject though: I think , personally , if animals could somehow be set to 'passive' we wouldn't have this problem as much. That way it would literally be a conscious choice to attack them (now I can understand something like a bear or even a boar attacking, but deer and such are docile ). That's just my 2 cents.

 Very much agreed. There really is no way to avoid killing something that in fact would run away from you in any normal reality.

[Dorganath]

That was a side effect of the perception script that allows for the mass calming that druids and rangers can do. Hopefully we'll right that with the V3 release.
  On druids...
  I have a druid character that I play very infrequently. He's...difficult to get along with...not because he's a druid, but because he has low Charisma (read: not very personable to those he does not respect) and he has the rather unpopular opinion that *gasp* Drow are an infestation of evil in the world. Now, I don't play him enough to form an opinion one way or the other as to whether he is treated differently because he's a druid.
  However...
  I will say that I have seen and heard reports of druids acting almost militantly in a way that borders on and at times crosses that line between proper RP and hiding behind the no PvP rule. This is not specific to druids, mind you, but there's that saying about one or two bad apples spoiling the entire basket.
  Druids are a tricky lot, and a tricky character to play correctly, if you ask me. I think a lot of people don't understand them, both those who play them and those who play with them.
  But they're also incredibly diverse, and so among the organization of Druids, there are going to be all kinds, and some will simply react negatively to them.

[IceDragonDuvessa]

In my experience as a druid you are going to upset people with your beliefs this is something Ive learned to deal with and have fun with over the past 2+ years. If you can't handle IC conflict a druid character is not for you, most adventurers just don't care about walking AROUND the bear they could plow though. On the flip side of the coin always walking around leads to over population of bears and hungry naked people.

Looking at a druids uses in a party rather than RPing your character as they would react to one is metagaming and poor RP. I applaud those that can have a good IC conflict if it goes along with their characters thoughts, alignment, beliefs personality etc... just make sure its clear that it is IC and it isn't brought OOC.

[Hellblazer]

LynnJuniper - 2/20/2007  9:57 PM  

Laldiien - 2/20/2007  9:38 PM  Now, at the same time, almost without exception, I have not seen a druid that wasn't a fanatic about it.  That get's old, too.

 On the subject though: I think , personally , if animals could somehow be set to 'passive' we wouldn't have this problem as much. That way it would literally be a conscious choice to attack them (now I can understand something like a bear or even a boar attacking, but deer and such are docile ). That's just my 2 cents.

 A thing about this, Lex has showed it to many people, beign an Aeridinite, not all animals keep attacking, some time if you just elt yourself get hit once and stand not attacking back, the boar or dear will go away. The white stag is the best example, as I have showed to many chars that if you stand facing him even if he attacks, he will stop and you will be able to aproach him and pet him if you wish.
  SO yes some animals do attacks and cant be pacified by simply one hit or no hit at al, bear, lion and such. Boar and deer can. Unfortunatly the one near haven are to frail, and even if i dont want to I end up killing them by a counter attack  

[LightlyFrosted]

In regards to the original question of this post - I would have to say I agree with Laldiien.  Nothing against druids, but I can only take so much 'stop destroying nature' before I want to snap back 'when nature ceases in its attempts to destroy me'.  As this has failed to be a suitable answer for some druids, it has engendered, if not dislike, at the very least little respect for druids.

[darkstorme]

@Hellblazer - it's not really workable as a mage or a rogue to "let" a dire boar get a hit in.  It might try for two.  And then you die.  To that end, Kell either avoids the dire boars, or engages in a pre-emptive strike.  This is not "hating nature".  This is "threat neutralization."  If possible, I use the meat and hide of any beasts thus slaughtered... but if I'm in a hurry and it would encumber me... it's just not practical, and Kell, at least (not so much Therise), is intensely practical.

[Talan Va'lash]

Ioskeha - 2/20/2007  6:38 PM

In my year and a half of playing one I have not seen another class get as little respect as a Druid does.  Almost half of my RP with her comes from people going out of their way to make her angry.  And let me tell you that this gets old fast.  It's really no fun to have to RP negative things all the time.  When it comes to battle tactics Druids are alway left out of the planning, from what I've seen.  When I think that any party would like to have us around.  There is no other class that has as much verity as the Druid class does.  We can serve as the main healer (minus res), scout, tank, and supporter.  I know some of it comes from RP, but at times it seems like people break their alignment just to annoy us.

From watching many instances of this as an uninvolved character and a GM (don't think I've ever gotten a druid mad at one of my characters.. well, at least not for the reasons this post is about heh.) More often than not, from an uninvolved party's perspective, it looks more like the druid is going out of their way to harass the other characters about stuff, not the other way around.

Of course, thats not true for every case I witnessed, but most of the time that was my impression of the situation from watching.

[Hellblazer]

darkstorme - 2/21/2007  3:06 AM  @Hellblazer - it's not really workable as a mage or a rogue to "let" a dire boar get a hit in.  It might try for two.  And then you die.  To that end, Kell either avoids the dire boars, or engages in a pre-emptive strike.  This is not "hating nature".  This is "threat neutralization."  If possible, I use the meat and hide of any beasts thus slaughtered... but if I'm in a hurry and it would encumber me... it's just not practical, and Kell, at least (not so much Therise), is intensely practical.

 the max ive seen a boar hit was 15- 20 without armor and any buffs. I'm ot saying its not possible for it to go higher, but hit it once then back up still facing it, dont know why exatly but it works at least 7 out of 10 times did this. Funny part in this is that the boar dire boar) will keep moving beside you, coming to you but not attacking, and you will even be able to heal yourself and it and i didnt see it reatacked once it had stoped. had a few comical rp when the boar would follow in the valenske cave calling him my new little friend, with the others i was.

[Faldred]

Because they're tree-hugging, granola-eating, generally holier-than-thou, and a royal pain exceeded only by Paladins?

 

On a more serious note... it's kind of part and parcel of the class description.  By becoming a Druid, you put yourself at odds with much of society, especially the adventuring set, who tend to have certain... um... materialistic tendencies that are at odds with Druidic thinking.  A Druid is, essentially, a "weirdo" to most people, far more so than any of the other classes, where the average person can at least find something to relate to.  (Exception: Paladins, because most people can't picture having that large of a stick jammed up their posteriors.)

Of course, that's all RP (which is, of course, a good thing).  From a mechanics standpoint, Druids can be very powerful, and should be used as such in a party, but it's kind of amusing to see how the RP perception of Druids actually trumps mechanics inside the gameworld.

[LynnJuniper]

And then the problem with Fighters is, its hard to pull them off the attack, and with one hit those things can pretty much die already. I mean =Rhynn= can get lucky and kill one of those things with one melee hit.

And I will readily admit: My character Shri torments Druids. She's a Drow. Druids upset easy. She finds it amusing, when Druids work to For example: Stoneskin the deer and then warn the Haven Ogres that shes coming, to simply lob the things head off and drop it in her lap the next time she sees her.

That said, Shri and Kire get along fairly well when they're not trying to kill eachother.

[miasma_hemlock]

I know some druids might go overboard. But I've seen plenty of players from all classes who've gone overboard one way or another, from clerics to rogues, how come they don't get the same amount of hatred druids do? I've seen so much druid bashing in this place (and been at the wrong end of it) that I just can't bring myself to play much anymore, and when I do I tend to stick to people I know because invariably when I meet new people there's gonna be one who has to prove what a badass he is by provoking the druid.

I'm not saying there aren't druids who don't bait people. In particular I think it's wrong for higher level druids to start a fight with a new character who's on Johan's cloak quest or who accidently auto attacks a bird by the goblins. But on the other side the druid bashing is way too much, too. It gets very old, and repititious, and from what I've seen when you don't give them the reaction they want (because I'm not the type who will yell at someone for say killing an animal in self defense) there are a lot of people who will just find another way to try to get to you. In the end this is supposed to be fun, and having the same arguments over and over about killing animals is not fun. Being expected to fly into a rage (which I don't, but I am put in positions where it is expected and I've even been told in tells "you're supposed to be mad for this") is not fun.  Which is a shame, because I do like playing a druid for a lot of reasons, if nothing more than it is fun to play with animals.

There was a point in time a few months ago when every time I would go to the game I would get tormented by a certain group of people, and I don't think I was singled out necessarily, and I'm not going into the details or naming other names but it got to where I just couldn't play any longer because it was just the same thing every time I logged on, that this small group of people were trying to prove how evil they were or whatever by trying to provoke the druid.  Over and over and over again.  It got to the point that I was just so frustrated I deleted the account in anger and said I wasn't going to come here any more.

I totally regret doing that now, because I do miss the friends I have here and wish I had Falon to play again, but that's how mad I got.  I know raising a little conflict is part of role playing but when it's the same thing over and over it completely spoils any fun.

I don't know what the answer is in the end; i'm sure there are druids who could tone it down a little, but maybe some others could think twice about baiting them too.  For my part it is my favorite class and I try NOT to be " tree-hugging, granola-eating, generally holier-than-thou, and a royal pain", but instead playing more of a patient and tolerant druid.  Not that it helps all that much, but..

[LordCove]

Seem's this is an ongoing thing about the Druid's....however, there are, as above, some who play very well.
But as Ice pointed out....it's likely by being a Druid....you "have" to upset some people, or argue with them when they storm ahead killing anything in sight.

I'll use Sallaron as example....Ranger....but different type of one because of previous interaction's with a Druid and such. Before heading off on little adventure's, he'll always advise "not to kill the Wildlife"...and make sure it's clear to everyone. Some people ignore this....and get a ticking off on occassion, but most will respect it and fall back for the Druid/Ranger to tame them.
Like Milton said....these will be the people your character will work with and RP with best. But...of course, a good arguement is always fun too.  

[Laldiien]

I know some druids might go overboard. But I've seen plenty of players from all classes who've gone overboard one way or another, from clerics to rogues, how come they don't get the same amount of hatred druids do? I've seen so much druid bashing in this place (and been at the wrong end of it) that I just can't bring myself to play much anymore, and when I do I tend to stick to people I know because invariably when I meet new people there's gonna be one who has to prove what a badass he is by provoking the druid. I'm not saying there aren't druids who don't bait people. In particular I think it's wrong for higher level druids to start a fight with a new character who's on Johan's cloak quest or who accidently auto attacks a bird by the goblins. But on the other side the druid bashing is way too much, too. It gets very old, and from what I've seen when you don't give them the reaction they want (because I'm not the type who will yell at someone for say killing an animal in self defense) there are a lot of people who will just find another way to try to get to you. In the end this is supposed to be fun, and having the same arguments over and over about killing animals is not fun. Being expected to fly into a rage (which I don't, but I am put in positions where it is expected and I've even been told in tells "you're supposed to be mad for this") is not fun. Which is a shame, because I do like playing a druid for a lot of reasons, if nothing more than it is fun to play with animals.
  There was a point in time a few months ago when every time I would go to the game I would get tormented by a certain group of people. In fact after one particularly harsh trip where a couple of them were druid bashing all the way one of them starting this thread (which I can't see being permitted for other classes..)
  http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=31345&posts=4&start=1
  Note that most of this was said to me verbatim in game, and from there it continued for weeks, and I'm not going into the details or naming other names but it got to where I just couldn't play any longer because it was just the same thing every time I logged on, that this small group of people were trying to prove how evil they were or whatever by trying to provoke the druid. Eventually I deleted the account in anger and said I wasn't going to come here any more.I totally regret doing that now, because I do miss the friends I have here and wish I had Falon to play again, but that's how mad I got.I don't know what the answer is in the end; i'm sure there are druids who could tone it down a little, but maybe some others could think twice about baiting them too.

 @miasma. It would appear that the post you have linked (twice) upset you deeply. If you want to play a druid, roll one up. If you don't, don't. The person who made the post no longer plays here, but if you are being "tormented" by anyone, get a GM. You now have 3 options:  1) roll another druid, take what may come.  2)roll another class, take what may come.  3)find another server that suits you.  Option 3 isn't a leading favorite, but for the sake of clarity, there it is. This is a game. It's primary function is to divert your attention from reality in a pleasing way. if someone is being a jerk, and hiding behind RP to do it, consider the source.
  That being said, druids are annoying to non-druids. (Tree-huggers) Paladins are annoying to non-paladins. (Lawful-good). It can be a source of both amusment and frustration, depending. (May edit for formatting when I get to the office)
 
  Edit: Blackberries are not good for forum posts. Meh.

[Honora]

Sallaron:  "Like Milton said....these will be the people your character will work with and RP with best. But...of course, a good arguement is always fun too."

...like every time Honora sees a bear, boar, panther, malar, wolf, deer...she reaches for her knife and says "SKINS!!"?

[Pen N Popper]

http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=34933&posts=3#M225708
  60 bear skins and the poster is chided. A trapper returning from years in the vast forests would have this many (thinking early American frontier here). If the poster had killed a bear and not collected the skin, then bad! Collect the skin and still bad!
  Perhaps the druids of the land can communicate with the city PCs in a more constructive way. "The deer that are aggressive towards you are likely sickly. We would be pleased if you would assist us in putting them out of their misery. Please clean up the kill so as not to attract unwanted predators." We really don't have much choice when they attack, do we? ICly i'm not "waiting it out" and OOCly I'm not either.

[IceDragonDuvessa]

Pen N Popper - 2/21/2007  9:44 AM    http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=34933&posts=3#M225708
  60 bear skins and the poster is chided.  A trapper returning from years in the vast forests would have this many (thinking early American frontier here).  If the poster had killed a bear and not collected the skin, then bad!  Collect the skin and still bad!
  Perhaps the druids of the land can communicate with the city PCs in a more constructive way.  "The deer that are aggressive towards you are likely sickly.  We would be pleased if you would assist us in putting them out of their misery. Please clean up the kill so as not to attract unwanted predators."  We really don't have much choice when they attack, do we?  ICly i'm not "waiting it out" and OOCly I'm not either.
   

  I actually agree with this fully. Pc's that wouldn't kill animals and such often have no choice due to the AI of NwN and generally find a good reason that its happened as to not chide them ICly. Often times the auto attack causes me to turn and kill an animal myself when I forget that my taming staff counts as a weapon and negates the aura of taming.   The times I get angry are when I have tamed an animal and someone decides its necessary to force attack it anyhow or does not give me the time to tame it before turning to kill it.    I have found of the more fanatical druids that they often forget to look down at their bodies and realize what they are wearing... leather most likely. As for the man that killed 60 bears and skinned them... he probably ate the meat and saved the skin for some worthy later use. Over population due to underhunting is a sad thing too. Bears would eat all the pigs then wind up with no food source and starve to death. People are part of the great cycle too... sometimes they eat.. sometimes they are eaten though the latter less often.  Theres a lot of ways of interpretting the balance but anyway you look at it good, evil, law, chaos, life and death are all necessary to not tip the scales in one direction or the other. The fanatical preservationist is just as much danger as the wanton slayer of everything.