The World of Layonara  Forums

Author Topic: Change Silver and Titanium Enhancement to work on slashing weapons  (Read 1201 times)

orth

This suggestion thread was originally started in the "Bug Reports" forum as it was discovered that Silver and Titanium enhancements were not providing slashing weapons with the extra damage as intended due to slashing damage not stacking. The suggestions to correct this problem (as more detailed described in the provided thread) were as follows: 1. Create a new version of the Silver and Titanium Enhancements that does Bludgeoning Damage. So, now there would be two types of these enhancements, one that does slashing and one that does bludgeoing. The bludgeoning could be used on slashing or piercing weapons and the slashing could be used on bludgeoning or piercing weapons. This would resolve the stacking issue. Important to note that due to mechanics, the damage provided by the enhancement would take on the damage type of the base weapon (ie, adding a silver slashing to a bludgeoning weapon would convert the slashing silver to extra bludgeoning damage). This fix would allow all weapons the ability to be enhanced with titanium and silver and would not cause any overbalancing issues. 2. Change the Silver and Titanium to do elemental damage, not slashing. Suggested elemental for silver would be fire, suggested elemental for titanium would be cold. This would still allow someone to put an elemental on their weapon for base/non-vs damage, as long as it was a different type of elemental damage (ie, could have a Mithril Battle Axe with 1d8 Silver (fire) damage for vs undead/shapechanger and a 1d8 Acid damage). If you have any comments or suggestions or want to thank me that's ok too:)
 
The following users thanked this post: miltonyorkcastle, Chazzler, jadewillow, ShiffDrgnhrt, willhoff

ShiffDrgnhrt

Re: Change Silver and Titanium Enhancement to work on slashing w
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2011, 01:56:53 pm »
3.  Same as number two, but couldn't the damage type be Magic?  The silver vs undead and shapeshifters thing always had a magical aura to it.  Just a suggestion :)
 

Stephen_Zuckerman

Re: Change Silver and Titanium Enhancement to work on slashing w
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2011, 02:27:14 pm »
As discussed in the parent thread, Magic would be SUPER DUPER unbalancing.

Also, the Longsword is seriously the best weapon in the game. Shortsword comes close, doing well in the dual-wielding spec.

I support having a Bludgeoning-type Silver/Titanium Enhancement. Easiest way to implement might be letting the existing Silver/Titanium Enhancements have a second usable property, applying the +Bludgeoning instead of +Slashing. This would prevent the necessity of adding another recipe to the list, or adding another item to the game - only adding more script to an existing one.
 

lonnarin

Re: Change Silver and Titanium Enhancement to work on slashing w
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2011, 09:38:30 pm »
Against undead/lycanthropes only, additional positive damage would not be unbalanced.  Silver is supposed to harm them because of its purity.  It is the impurity of the undeath condition or the curse of lycanthropy which makes them vulnerable to its bite.  It makes the most sense in using it as a damage type, since elemental protection spells cast by undead would not resist silver.

Besides, weapons that did positive damage, even to just undead and lycanthropes, would be decidedly awesome.  HOLY weapons!
 

davidhoff

Re: Change Silver and Titanium Enhancement to work on slashing w
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2011, 10:07:04 pm »
Lon I agree that would be neat, but Leanthar has already said that would "be a bit too much".  If we can just get a little extra physical or elemental damage for the slashing weapons using titanium or silver I think we've done well :)
 

Chazzler

Re: Change Silver and Titanium Enhancement to work on slashing w
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2011, 05:48:29 pm »
I think I suggested positive damage for silver & titanium, but yeah, would be a bit too much *grins*
I like this idea more than mine, and Stephen there made another superb suggestion too.
 

davidhoff

Re: Change Silver and Titanium Enhancement to work on slashing w
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2012, 10:06:41 pm »
Hi, was digging this up to see if the Team has any intention on changing this in the next update.  As it is now, only weapons that do either bludgeoning- only or piercing-only damage get the benefits of Titanium/Silver enhancements.  Sure would be nice to give the slashing and slashing/piercing folks some love.

Thanks
 

Dorganath

Re: Change Silver and Titanium Enhancement to work on slashing w
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2012, 06:00:26 pm »
My position hasn't really changed since this post:

http://forums.layonara.com/bug-reports/282695-silver-enhancement-not-working.html#post1714106

In fairness, I haven't thought about it either. At this moment, however, I am not inclined to change things.  Among the other oppositions to this, it would mean adding eight largely redundant items to an already-stressed palette.

I'm not closing this to the future, but it's definitely off the table for the next update.
 

davidhoff

Re: Change Silver and Titanium Enhancement to work on slashing w
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2012, 03:48:56 am »
Just to be clear, I'm not asking for silver/titanium enchantments to be changed to Magical or Divine or Positive Damage.  Both of the quotes you referenced from Leanthar and IDii were saying no because they didn't want to change it to magical/divine/positive.  They didn't address whether it should be changed so that slashing weapons can get the bonus like piercing and bludgeoning weapons do currenly.  All I'm asking is for a change so slashing weapons can get the extra physical damage from silver/titanium that currently only piercing and bludgeoning get.  I don't see a balancing issue with that, unless you want to call it balancing something that already is unbalanced.  Thank you for addressing this and considering it.
 

Dorganath

Re: Change Silver and Titanium Enhancement to work on slashing w
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 08:17:43 am »
Quote from: davidhoff
All I'm asking is for a change so slashing weapons can get the extra physical damage from silver/titanium that currently only piercing and bludgeoning get.  I don't see a balancing issue with that, unless you want to call it balancing something that already is unbalanced.  Thank you for addressing this and considering it.

I'm not going to quibble over the meaning and interpretation of the word "balanced" here. There are more considerations to game balance than all weapons getting the same treatment. Read the various discussions above and in other threads, and look past the "no" and try to better understand why "no" was said.  

I do understand what you are asking, and I'm only saying "not at this time." Again...

Quote from: Dorganath
Among the other oppositions to this, it would mean adding eight largely redundant items to an already-stressed palette.

I'm not closing this to the future, but it's definitely off the table for the next update.

To give you technical insight, the system that applies these enhancements is really quite elegant. The enhancement items themselves are tagged in a particular way, and one script handles the application of all kinds of enhancements and resistances (even ones we don't have available).  The quickest, easiest way to do what you are suggesting is to make a new set of items tagged to apply piercing damage rather than slashing. That's eight new and mostly redundant items added to the palette, eight new crafting recipes and possible confusion when applying one or the other of these nearly identical enhancements.  A possible alternative (and not one I've investigated) is to code in handling of this single special case, detecting all applications of slashing damage vs. racial type to slashing weapons and converting that to piercing. Bioware doesn't make that as easy as it might sound, so a solution like that would not only take longer to implement but require more testing as well.  

In either case, I remain unconvinced.

I understand and acknowledge all the arguments in favor of this, but as yet, nothing has jumped out at me as a strong and compelling reason to pursue this.
 

drakogear

Re: Change Silver and Titanium Enhancement to work on slashing w
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2012, 10:12:19 pm »
Well... this is unfortunate... was thinking of making a monster slayer type character and was gonna ask about monster weaknesses such as silver then try getting my monster slayer a silver sword for said monsters... but now I find that silver will not work with swords... or any other slashing weapons.

Hm, wander though... could it be possible to give an enhancement dual physical damage types?

such as... Bludgeoning-Piercing or Piercing-Slashing or maybe even Slashing-Bludgeoning or... maybe all three?

If in the case of the third being possible then no weapon would be left out... though might gain about 2 times the bonus added as there base damage... in which case maybe cut the enhancement in half.

Example: Axe: Base slashing. Add dual or triple physical damage type enhancement. converts bludgeon and piercing damage bonus to increase base damage type slashing.
 

orth

I've made a fix so the
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2015, 05:27:11 pm »

I've made a fix so the application of silver or titanium to slashing weapons will add piercing damage for the racial bonus instead. Going to wait until Dorg comes back to run this by him. I think piercing should be okay. It's not as good as bludgeoning but it's better than it doing nothing right now. 

I will also probably add a =c fixslashingracialbonus or something for players to correct existing weapons.

 

davidhoff

Great to see this being
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2015, 01:41:28 am »

Great to see this being addressed and thanks a bunch Orth!  Please forgive me, but if I understand correctly what you said, you've modified the S/T enchants to somehow recognize it's being applied to a "slashing" weapon and then convert the S/T enchant to extra "piercing" damage.  The only issue I see with making it extra piercing damage is some weapons say they are "slashing" but technically they inflict a hybrid of slashing and piercing damage (Greatswords and Longswords are two that come to mind).  The application of a S/T enchant to a hybrid weapon may not add the extra damage as intended because there may still be stacking issues with the base enchantment of the weapon or if the spell greater magic weapon is used.  I guess testing would be the only way to tell.  Unless there are balancing or technical reasons for not using bludgeoning, then I still think bludgeoning might be better.

Again thanks for working on this issue and my only reason for posting is to bring up possible undesired effects.

Great work and the community really appreciates all the recent work you've put into fixing various things and also the new server and updated versions, etc. 

 

orth

davidhoff wrote:Great to see
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2015, 09:12:10 am »

Quote from: "davidhoff"&cid="2756177"

Great to see this being addressed and thanks a bunch Orth!  Please forgive me, but if I understand correctly what you said, you've modified the S/T enchants to somehow recognize it's being applied to a "slashing" weapon and then convert the S/T enchant to extra "piercing" damage.  The only issue I see with making it extra piercing damage is some weapons say they are "slashing" but technically they inflict a hybrid of slashing and piercing damage (Greatswords and Longswords are two that come to mind).  The application of a S/T enchant to a hybrid weapon may not add the extra damage as intended because there may still be stacking issues with the base enchantment of the weapon or if the spell greater magic weapon is used.  I guess testing would be the only way to tell.  Unless there are balancing or technical reasons for not using bludgeoning, then I still think bludgeoning might be better.

Yes it was made piercing instead of bludgeoning for balance reasons. I did my research on how it impacts weapons with multiple damage types though and the piercing is fine. See the bottom part of this page.

 

 

anything