The World of Layonara

NWN Discussions and Suggestions => NWN Ideas, Suggestions, Requests => Topic started by: orth on May 27, 2005, 11:48:00 AM

Title: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: orth on May 27, 2005, 11:48:00 AM
Please post any discussion you have on the Demon Cards.  We will submit them to the programmer and see if he's up for taking any into account.  There is no guarantee of this though.
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Talan Va'lash on May 27, 2005, 12:34:00 PM
The potion of heroism card, instead of just making creatures better, makes them invulnerable.  They take no damage for the duration of the card and are even immune to assasins and scorched earth (which is supposed to remove all creatures/cards from play.)
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Reventage on May 27, 2005, 01:09:00 PM
Quote
Talan Va'lash - 5/27/2005  10:34 PMThe potion of heroism card, instead of just making creatures better, makes them invulnerable.  They take no damage for the duration of the card and are even immune to assasins and scorched earth (which is supposed to remove all creatures/cards from play.)

No it just gives them 50 more hitpoints. They will not show up as injured before those extra 50 hitpoints are lost. Also it only makes the creature immune to one assasin or scorched earth. The next one you use on it will work. I actually think this potion is fine the way it is and a great help for the few people who actually play creature decks.
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Reventage on May 27, 2005, 01:16:00 PM
Fire Elementals.

The damage these creatures deal when they die is enormous. It's over 100hp which means that if you manage to get one of these creatures to the opponents end and it dies, you have a certain win. The only ways to kill these without them exploding is using either an assassin or a scorched earth card.

I think an interesting solution for this would be lowering the damage they do on death to something around 25 HP and then maybe add an sacrifice option for them which would kill the creature but raise the damage the explosion does to around 40 or so. This would still be strong against other creatures, but would not be an insta win. Still, having the ability to force the elemental to die might be a bit too strong, so maybe just keep it at the same damage dealt regardless on the way it dies.

Or then the damage the explosion does could simply be lowered substantially.
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Reventage on May 27, 2005, 01:17:00 PM
Mind Control.

This card is still too strong. It's cost should be raised by at least one more generator, or maybe change it so that using the card will actually destroy one of your generators.
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: FlameStrike on May 27, 2005, 01:38:00 PM
The damage that the Fire Elemental deals should be set to 50, divided among nearby creatures only, or like Rev suggested, only 25 to the Avatar/nearby creatures. Turning 'friendly fire' on would be good aswell, as it would make players think before sending their elementals, and actually play smart.

 Mind control... this card's power is too unbalancing as it is, it should probably cost 2 + creature's casting cost to be played, or like Rev suggested, sacrificing one of your own generators, but reducing the cost to the same of the target's casting cost.

 I believe that the game still needs creatures with specific abilities, such as immunity to spells, immunity to specific spells, such as Assassin, Scorched Earth, Mind Control, etc., creatures that 'reflect back' spells cast at them, creatures that deal damage to the player casting any spell on them, and so on.

Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Force_of_Will_ on June 11, 2005, 02:43:00 PM
How about an expansion set with say 25 or 50 new cards.
Maybe with expansions released every once and awhile the game will become more popular.
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Fista on August 20, 2005, 05:25:00 PM
expansion sets would be cool.. "Creatures 2nd Edition" sounds good ^^ anyway, i also think you should make creature decks more popular somehow . playing against a spell deck is boring..
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: miltonyorkcastle on August 31, 2005, 10:00:00 PM
okay, in creatures, when forced to discard a card, the game makes you discard anything but a generator, unless all you have in your hand is generators.  so, for instance, if I have a generator next in line to be discarded, and I am forced to discard, instead of the generator being discarded, the next non-generator card is.  in my humble opinion, that is retarded.  if the generator is in line to be discarded, it should be discarded.
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: ShrubberyJSC on November 12, 2005, 03:07:00 PM
Quote
miltonyorkcastle - 8/31/2005  10:00 PM

okay, in creatures, when forced to discard a card, the game makes you discard anything but a generator, unless all you have in your hand is generators.  so, for instance, if I have a generator next in line to be discarded, and I am forced to discard, instead of the generator being discarded, the next non-generator card is.  in my humble opinion, that is retarded.  if the generator is in line to be discarded, it should be discarded.


I could be horribly wrong, but isn't the discarded card randomly chosen?
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Rayenoir on November 13, 2005, 08:21:00 AM
Nope.  It's the card farthest to the left in your "hand".
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: muaddib on November 13, 2005, 12:05:00 PM
I like the discard the way it is and if any of you have ever gone against a deck like aleisters you would understand why.

 I think there is a bug with mind control thing because some times when the creature is fighting and you take them over they will continue to fight the creature that they were fighting even if the are both on the same side then. They wont attack your avater though. And for mind control being over powered i dont think it is. I usually only keep one or two in my deck and its mainly for at the begining when i have no craetures to summon or to slow down an attack of 2 or more creatures and i have no creatures to summon.

And another bug i think is when the witch that as 3/1 and costs 1 generator to play i cant remeber its name but in the desciption it says if it deals damage it switches sides but it doesnt. I could be wrong i havent fought it that many times but i have never seen it switch in the few times i have.

I think the game is fine as it is except for a few bugs and new cards would be great.
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Acacea on November 13, 2005, 03:20:00 PM
*Shifty.* I've lost to my own Chaos Witches before. It can't be some bug that ONLY chooses me to work with, right? :)
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: muaddib on November 13, 2005, 03:56:00 PM
Whenever Aliester would play his it would keep attacking me and never switch to him unless it did less damage to him and i didnt see it.
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: muaddib on November 14, 2005, 02:02:00 PM
Can we get a card emporium on central the lag on west makes it hard to play.
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: miltonyorkcastle on November 16, 2005, 12:47:00 PM
yes, I have found that the Chaos witches almost never "switch sides" like it says they're supposed to in their decription.  I think that needs to be fixed, or their generator cost needs to be increased.

Also, I agree with Talan about the Heroism potion (it also protects from one Life Drain as well) and the Holy Vengance spell also does the same, despite the fact that neither of those cards have the said effects in their descriptions.

Either the generator cost of the card needs to be increased, or those extra effects taken away.  The counter argument is that the potion/spell only lasts two rounds.  As it turns out, a Bugbear Berserker with a Potion of Heroism, which can be played in the third round (Bugbear cost = 2, Heroism = 1), can kill an avatar in the two rounds it will take to slay the monster using two Assasins, an Assasin and a Scorched Earth, or an Assasin and a Life Drain.

I don't know about you, but this seems a wee bit over-powered.
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Khromag on December 14, 2005, 04:25:00 PM
Put some card players (with new Uniques you can win from them) in other taverns and inns around Layonara.

I also like the idea of an emporium on central too (same base NPCs there)! Lag on west is killer when playing Creatures.

Maybe (expansion set wise)........................

Elemental Set: lesser elementals (with a full range like angels/undead/animals/etc)
  Air Elemental - Cost 1 - 1/1 creature - sacrfice to increase attack speed of other elementals
  Water Elemental - Cost 2 - 1/1 creature - decreases the movement/attack rate of nearby enemies
  Earth Elemental - Cost 3 - 2/2 creature - grants Armor (higher defense) to nearby elementals
  Fire Elemental - Cost 4 - 3/2 creature - increases the accuracy of nearby elementals

Time Rift - Cost 5 Spell - Both players (but not creatures paralyzed next round (may not play cards and do not get a draw or discard)

Ice Storm - Cost 4 Spell - All creatures in play are slowed for 2 rounds

Blaze of Glory - Cost 4 Spell - target Creature's attack, defense, and HP are doubled for 2 rounds then the creature dies.
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Eight-Bit on March 06, 2006, 06:33:14 PM
I've found some pretty nasty combos, orth. Do you want me to post them here or PM them to you?


As for the requests about an expansion pack, are we using Adam Miller's Demon Cards 3?


// Update \\\\

I was hoping to see the effect that summoning a Dragon has on your own creatures equal to Assassin, or Scorched Earth. As it stands right now it's a nearly unbeatable combination. Even if the possibility of Mind Control, Assassin, Scorched Earth, or even a Warp Reality stopping the effects, it is still way too powerful to beat. Considering how easy the two cards are to get as well, I think this needs to be suggested to the programmer.
Title: Re: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: orth on March 10, 2006, 10:05:37 AM
Yes 8bit we're using the latest Adam Miller cards.  I've never even really looked at the code for the cards, so I'm not sure there is anything I can do about nasty combos save for making cards unavilable, but feel free to PM me details.
Title: Re: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: miltonyorkcastle on March 10, 2006, 10:31:24 AM
Bugbear Berserker + Herosim Potion = Dead Dragon.  *snickers*  

Now, a Dragon with a Heroism Potion....  =P
Title: Re: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Guardian 452 on November 28, 2006, 09:50:28 AM
Move the card game to Central... access it via portal in most Inns, and traveling to it by foot. (Prantz & the Hotel Layonara might be a good place for it under Broegar?)

Their is no sense in having this feature on West... its too laggy to play most times... especially with this new lag spike when most players log in. Please consider moving the card games to Central, or even East!

Dont have EVERY card for sale on the vendor.

Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Reventage on November 28, 2006, 09:58:05 AM
There is already a card game room on East.
Title: Re: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Guardian 452 on November 28, 2006, 11:04:52 AM
Is it accessable by means other than walking, running, riding a horse or stowing away in the gunny sack of a large giant?  Such as a portal...

If so, awesome!.... if not... then it's doing little to no good in addressing the problem at hand.

Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Dorganath on November 28, 2006, 11:26:54 AM
It is in one of the easiest-to-reach places on East. And if you think really hard about it, I bet you'll figure out where it's located.  :)
  (hint: it's not the Great Library)
Title: RE: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Tialle Dianesis on January 31, 2007, 12:40:09 AM
Just a late suggestion. When a new player first buys a starter creature deck, I believe that deck shouldn't be made up of random cards but a set pre-made deck. I have seen new players buy a starter deck and receive incredibly powerful cards like Vampires Master, Zombie Lord, Beholder, etc. This seems unfair and too unbalanced to me. Plus it takes the fun out of having to work one's way up to make a great Creature's Deck when the deck you first buy is more powerful than other players who have devoted hours into Creatures. If I remember correctly from my pokemon days back in elementary the starter deck was just a generic deck filled with the most basic cards. It would be nice if Creatures worked off the same concept.
Title: Re: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: darkstorme on January 31, 2007, 01:41:15 PM
Vampire Master is a shoot-yourself-in-the-foot card, regardless.  Nice to have, but difficult to employ without getting yourself in trouble.  And back further, before Pokemon, when Magic the Gathering was the blend of the day, starter decks worked in the same way as in creatures - a mix of random cards.  It worked, and it made even buying a starter deck potentially exciting.  *grins*
Title: Re: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Witch Hunter on February 09, 2007, 12:53:00 PM
Actually I happened to play one out of the blue (was trying it vs wyatt) when he was spamming me with zombies/skeletons...

took me 1 turn and i had like 5 vampires+the master running at Wyatt... it was rather funny.
Title: Re: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Witch Hunter on April 19, 2007, 05:52:27 AM
Again...
 Elder Fire Elementals should be balanced a bit... when they die their explosion deals more than 100 damage which means insta kill unless you have a potion of heroism on your creature - as for the player avatar, impossible to protect him from it.
 
 If a fire elemental reaches your avatar the only way to get rid of it without dying is scortched earth/assassin/boomerang/mind control/warp reality - which is rather limited.
Title: Re: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: darkstorme on April 19, 2007, 06:10:15 AM
Personally, I'd like to see Wyatt's intelligence kicked up a notch or two.  As it stands, he's using the old weighting system for the cards, and double-sacrificing Maidens, calling up Dragons when they'll kill him, and not saving assassins as the newer weighting system would suggest he should.

You should be able to pull the new weighting system and drop it in to the existing script structure with no conflicts - and it'd be nice to see Wyatt playing like he's supposed to, rather than like the rest, just with better cards.
Title: Re: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Halfwit Genious on August 13, 2007, 02:30:45 AM
*eyes dodge back and forth to make sure no one is watching then he hastily adds a post* Creature cards ruuuuuuule! We need more player led competitions.

As far as cards like mind control and potion of heroism being overpowered goes there is a simple counter to mind control and that is... having your own mind controls to counter the others player's. And for potion of heroism, yes they are immune to assasination and scorched earth but those are bully tactics! Use their own potion against them by mind controling their monster. The potion stays on the monster and it turns against them.

Oh and one last thing.


Ultimate Card = Pain Golem

He sucks life directly from the opponents avatar while being incredibly tough. I once had one take on a dragon and a pit fiend at the same time alone without a potion of heroism and it won. That is over powered if anything is.
Title: Re: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: AeonBlues on August 13, 2007, 07:13:22 AM
O.o

The problem with card room on East, is you have to be level 17 to play there.

Brutal combos are part of the game.  Like magic, the art of building a deck is choosing cards that work well together.  The reason I beat the AI players, is not because my deck is so much better.  When starting, I play with inferior decks and win fairly consistently.  AI's are dumb.  It took year of development among like thousands of programmers to make decent chess programs.   They never made a program that can play go or  bridge or many other games, and compete against a skilled  player.  Good luck getting an AI to think, "I'd better save that lighting bolt, cause Aeon has a maiden of paradise in his hand, and will follow it up with that vampire master on turn 3.  Hmm.    

Personally, I am a big fan of the Paralyze spell.  It is a great counter to heroism, and a very effective card against pit fiends I might add.  Perhaps boomerang is too, not 100% on that.  Oh and dispel magic.  I don't see heroism as being over balanced as cards go in this kind of game.  Maybe raise the cost by 1.

I strongly agree that fire elementals are just dumb the way they are, but hey if you weaken them, you will increase my win % against wyatt.

I don't see mind control as being over powered.   It is a very nice card, but it does not feel out of balance to me.   It is a card you can expect to see, and should have appropriate counters for.   maybe boomerang is a good counter for this too.  I need to experiment with that card.  It is also a dead card against a deck that doesn't use creatures.  I use mind control in my undead deck, because that is good RP for undead.  I do not use it in my Angel beat down deck.  I mean jeez, it is not like a loxodon warhammer, where you just have to have one in every deck.  ;)  I will put 2 lightning bolts in any deck I build.  Lightning bolt is the best card in the game.

*ponders* Wish list for new cards:

Web: Cost 4: All enemy creatures become paralyzed for 3 rounds.

Maiden of strife: Cost 2.  0/2 creature, sacrifice Maiden of strife and opponent discards 2 cards.

Pillar of envy:  Cost 5.  Creates pillar next to the players generators.  Upkeep: Uses 2 power each turn.  Casts lightning bolt at the bigging of every turn. :D

I'll give new cards some more thought.

AeonBlues
Title: Re: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Dorganath on August 13, 2007, 08:20:39 AM
Quote from: AeonBlues
O.o

The problem with card room on East, is you have to be level 17 to play there.

No you don't.  Arnax can be visited by anyone. :)

That said, I don't know off-hand if the card game is still in Arnax with the next update.
Title: Re: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Xirion on August 13, 2007, 08:55:03 AM
But the east server has a level req of 17 I believe and therefor somehow the cardroom aswell... maybe that was meant by that O.o
Title: Re: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: Pibemanden on August 13, 2007, 09:04:16 AM
As Dorg stated, there are three exceptions to the level 17 rule, 1. The great library, 2. Arnax and everything within that and 3. DM quests
Title: Re: Demon Card Discussion/Balancing/Ideas
Post by: AeonBlues on August 14, 2007, 03:36:42 AM
Clean sweep: Cost 4: Both players discard  all cards in their hand and draw 7 cards.

Locust Mummy: cost 5: Upkeep: Same damage penalty as vampire master: summons a 4/5 mummy.  At the bigging of every turn Locust mummy spawns a 1/1 locust creature.

Haste: Cost 1: Players most powerful creature get 1 extra attack per turn & +1/+1

bumblebee: (could be a scorpion or spider) Cost 3: Creates a 1/2 creature that poisons with every hit.  Poisoned creatures suffer a -1/-0 penalty.
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