The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Fogo_ on July 17, 2005, 03:58:00 PM
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I have read the rules about PvP. I understand that you can't attack a character, at all. And i don't like it. A duel, or a fight can be a part of RP. Paladins wants to fight evil, doesn't they? And PvP isn't bad if the player who plays know the rules, it has to be a part of RP. If the other one Rp's to not fight, then he won't be killed. And of course, you can't kill a guy without any reason! You have rules about 3-days ban and such... that would be one rule i think. You'll se how fun it is. But i know it's not fun to be attacked by a Impossible guy, without reason. But i like to fight Impossible guys in Rp... i know i'll die. But still, it's soo fun.
As i said RP PvP! It's sometimes fun too test your char and luck. But it's not fun if you have a death count. :D
If you have any grudges against PvP. You don't need to fight, or you can write to me. Say why you don't like PvP. I can say whats fun with it.
And a RP fight. Isn't like three bandits attack you for money. It's like fighting evil guys on the server. And there has to be some trouble makers. But not as an overdrive. And make a jail! I love jails! I know stealing is not welcome either, but if you are seen. That player have to pay who he stole from, and the guards, and at last spend some time in jail! Like 7 play days.
But can anyone make a vote thing on this server. If you are for PvP. I hope it's gonna change.
I hope i got everything in. But i'll answer as quick as i can. And for those who thinks i haven't played this server. I have, but it was a while ago.
PvP for the People!
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I've seen, and played, both sides of the PvP argument. It just does not fit here.
It fits in other servers, but here things are just different. I am know that PvP can be good in some cases, but I can garuntee you that it will not become commonplace here.
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also there is a PvP arena, you can have your duels, only they will have to be DM supervised, and both parties have to agree to it ahead of time, there has been isolated incidences of pvp in the past, and there will be isolated instances of pvp in the future, don't don't expect it to be commonplace since as Zhofe said, it doesn't fit here
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I, for one, am totally in favor of the current PvP and PP rules. I've played on servers where they are allowed, and it's just not fun. It was, in fact, a major selling point in coming to this server.
No PvP! No PP!
:-)
Just my 2 copper.
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Nope. PvP causes more problems then it is worth.
No matter how straight foward the rules are, there will always be those that bend/break them. And there will always be those that get upset at being killed and then you have griefing.
The *only* way I could see any sort of PvP is if there was an arena strictly for that. Contests if you will. Each contestant would know they risked death, etc. But that is it.
Edit: Thunder Pants was typing as I was. So. I did not know there was an arena. So YAY! :)
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i belive that arena is broken, or tehy just havent gotten to making it work. PvP is totaly possable as far as i know BUT BUT BUT... it has to be watched by a GM. So if there is a very good RP reasion and no other way to do it then contact a GM. But inless you have a really really rally good rp purpos im pritty shure its a hells no. thought i could be totaly worng, this is just how i rember the rules back in the day when i joined up. Oh and also... seeing as how we are all "good guys" inless you have gone through the tuff rp required to be evil, then you really would be going against your alignment my figting any other char... TN and CG are like as bad as it gets... there are some CN and i thank even a few evil chars but i dont thank it would be good rp alignments considered, to fight. Though a epic battle of power between Tah and Al to determin who is the most powerful mage in the lands, a fair preplaned mage dule, with a few gms watching it, i thak would be a damned good show and could have lagit RP reasions. Such as who is going to be the archmage of layo(inless there is one) or somthing like that. There are ways to fght in the game without PvP, back when i played tuff and buff chars like my dwarven battle rager which used to pick on Brutus, challanged him to armwrestling matches on some ranger or druids wolfs back sence there was no table... he lost everytime, back in the day when he first started playing here(i thank i rember him asking me how to RP back then lol)as well as got into a sluging contest with Bruenor after with we both proptly ran into wild surge inn got really drunk and started armwrestiling and fighting again. Just use the dice bag, for arm wrestiling have both chars do a simple str test. For the punching contest i thank one char did an str and the other did a con.. if str was higher teh defender would use the emote wand to fall over, get back up and then hit the attacker... this could have gone on for hours and i would have been intertained. *sighs* but alas... now i play weak mages that cast hold monster on chars like Brut and Bru and then tourture them with all sorts of spells intell hold ran out, and extended hold can last a very very long time...
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I can see times when this would be cool...like what you were saying when a group of bandits lays seige to a highway and robs those who pass and then a group of good PC's comes in and takes them out after they are fed up with it. But I can also see where it is bad, because of the reason's already mentioned. I wish it was possible to have it open, but with the amount of people and lack of proper GM observation (I mean like 4 or 5 on at once monitoring the PvP 24 hours a day) then it's just not going to work.
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It's always interesting when someone brings this up again.
PvP isn't going to happen. Take all the votes you want, post rallying cries for PvP, chant slogans, whatever. PvP still won't happen. It is one of the server's definite rules.
Get used to it. Layonara is a better place for it.
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It was an extremely good call to only allow PVP in the presence of a DM. This way, any sort of PVP will have to be RP'd, and make sense to do so.
I've read L's reasoning, and he is bang on.
" I personally am not against PvP but I am against the attitudes, heated tempers, etc. that come from it. So I will make it known again, and in a post. PvP, Player Killing (PK'ing), and Griefing are NOT tolerated on Layonara."
-L
Not everyone is mature enough to handle PvP, and it can lead to some pretty annoying OOC conflict. I know, I've been down that road a thousand times.
The layo player base would not be as tight as they are now if PvP was a big a free for all.
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Yes, allow it when supervised. I have some ideas for my mage in that respect. I mean he's supposed to be someone with a short fuse and, real 'lightning' anger. But when a dwarf punches him in the kidneys he can do nothing about it. His strength is nothing compared to the dwarf and he can't cast his spells.
I've noticed how this problem for mages is a bit abused by other players playing fighters. A mage can not respond with magic and they know it wouldn't be realtistic RP'ing, when they respond with the mage beating the crap out of the dwarf. (did I say dwarf again? Hmm.)
Therefore I'd like to suggest some leniency concerning spells like curse and charmed person. I like these two spells, the enchanting bard who uses it to get on a fighter's good side to persuade him to join his adventure. And the mage who curses a dwarf, after the dwarf insulted him off course, with curse. If the dwarf fails his save he could have donkey's ears for example. The player playing the dwarf would be forced to show everyone, he comes across, what the dwarf looks like and that he has donkey's ears.
(Hmm, did I say dwarf again?)
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I know it can go overdrive with PvP. And it's almost always a Dm nearby. If a fight before PvP starts in Hlint for example. There will flock other chars like a public. As when two players gets married! There are of course a Dm there. But i understand why PvP doesn't fit in Layonara. And an Arena, i love such things! I didn't know one existed! But i can surely survive without PvP. I like Layonara as it is, (or was, some time i played ago) and i like the rules. And if the players understand "the rules of PvP". Then PvP won't go as an overdrive. But an evil guy can't go really evil without fighting good guys. And for example if the evil guy goes on a mission, (This story told an other player me) they are going to destroy an evil worshipping guild. The evil chars asks questions about it, and seems officially intressed. He decides to join, (here goes my input) doesn't the adventures need to kill him to then? Thay can you start with persuadeing. Roll some dices. Doesn't that work, why can't they for example cast a sleep spell on him, and drag him out of the building while they slaughter everyone inside? Or just slaughter him too?
I know that PvP isn't good in other cases, but they can resolve as an last effort.
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With death tokens, PvPing is crazy. :o
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Yeah, you can't get DT's from player kills though. Then again there are traps and summons, not sure how those work...
About PvP... Well personally I like PvP quite a bit and used to play with some servers where PvP was a pretty big thing, and enjoyed it too. Now I don't mean arena servers but normal RP servers.
Not sure if I want it on Layonara though. Kinda like the way it's now. Well sure it could improve the world if we could keep it in control. Keep it as a pretty rare thing and well roleplayed. After all the player characters are supposed to be there to help in the fight against Blood, doesn't make much sense for them to be killing each others. But like I said... in some cases it would improve things.
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Thats exacty how i think, it was in control in 3kds, and i think it will be here. But i like Layonara as it is, with or without PvP. But PvP is a plus in the corner. ;D
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LoganGrimnar - 7/17/2005 7:43 PM
......... Though a epic battle of power between Tah and Al to determin who is the most powerful mage in the lands, a fair preplaned mage dule, with a few gms watching it, i thak would be a damned good show and could have lagit RP reasions. Such as who is going to be the archmage of layo(inless there is one) or somthing like that.......
That's a no brainer... NONE OF THE ABOVE...
[big]RUFUS vs. REGGUB [/big]
PvP would be the death of Layonara... I'm sure their is a select few players who could do it and do it right... but for each of them there will be 20 hot head punks wound up on Pixie Stix & Mt. Dew who will ruin it.
G-452
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*points up*
What G-452 said.
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I actually think that PvP would enchance the RP rather than ruin it. Though I know that it is not possible at the time, I hope that someday some of the "sketches" will be brought to life.
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damn the few
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Ar7 I know you could handle PvP and it would greatly enhance Rufus!!!
But I also know many can't handle it. Weather they take it personally, or just whine and moan that they got bad rolls and should have won.
I think to an extent PvP should be allowed but I think more so that the majority of the server would make a mess of it.
PvP would be great and a way to further allow respect where it is due.
So when that level 4 mouths off to an Epic he can simply put them in their place if it is truly warranted and within the characters alignment to do so.
Let's face it we have people who should be allowed to attack Drow on site, or Goblins, or Orcs etc.... or kill evil players... mind you I mean the moron evil players who flaunt it up and down main street Hlint.
Rufus is my kind of Evil player and he fits Layo like a glove IMO. But I can imagine their are times when he is restrained by the PvP rules of the world. As are other peoples characters.
I think it would be nice to be able to act as we feel our characters would but that is such a fine line and I just know many would abuse it.
Perhaps some type of trial could be done. with more lightened rules for a while and see how it goes then adjust back if it goes poorly or allow more freedom if the majority of the server proves they can handle it.
Beleive it or not Fogo I'm actually in favor of PvP, I just don't beleive the player community as a whole can handle it.
For me that is what it always have come down to... how will this affect Layo as a whole. Not just how it will affect me and my characters.
G-452
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If you really think it makes sense to go PvP with someone....conccur with the player and a DM. It's not like you can never do it...
Preferential treatment for those who can and cannot "handle it" would just create more problems.
I'm sure many of you have surfed various message boards. Have you seen some of the flame wars and extremely offensive arguments that occur of the most trivial topics? Layo-boards are a safe haven because they are well moderated. There are more jerks online now than there is webpages, and I think they would ooze into the pvp environment.
I think a more open approach to PvP would single handedly make the world fall apart. If I were to kill someone for lipping Ayreon, that person would most likely never RP well with any of my characters. And imagine they got a death token?? Immediatly this person would pester the "Grievances" staff. That would be one isolated inncident between two people. There are hundreds of PCs within the world here, and this sort of thing would not let up. Not to mention evil characters going on rampages because they think it's "good RP."
More rules would have to be made, which means there would be more rules being broken by new players,and those who pay no attention to rules. People would use exploits to kill others, and then even more rules would have to be made, and steps to *try* and script out the bugs (assuming they're not hardcoded) which is often fruitless. People would complain about others using bugs on them when no exploits were utilized.
I don't even really need to push the point though, because it will never be allowed here.
In a perfect (RL) world, it would work and be awesome. There are just too many jerks on the net.
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I understand Exactly how you mean. And thats how i have been thinking too. But as you know, im not in charge, and rules are there always. And rules for PvP, should be strickt. For a try i mean. I like your idéa bur maybe not everyone does. But a try time would be good if many enjoys it. Maybe i shall make a Poll?
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I get that too, and thats jerks as you call them, but everybody isn't like that. You see, i don't remember any account names at all, only short of player names. But there are jerks who wants to revenge on there characters.
Example, you gets in a fight with an challenging guy, you kicks his ass, big time! And the next day, a big ***** ****** Impossible big mama fighter, got a grudge against you. And wants to kick your ass.
Thats one jerk who doesn't know the feeling of RP, IC and that this is a game. He's an asshole, true!
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I'm pretty sure you don't need a GM when you go
pvp in the Arena. And it should work, it wasn't
too long ago someone tested it.
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Hmm, I just feel stupid for example when I met this wemic once.. i would've killed him immediately .. but since i cannot attack him im really confused about what to do. i just "draw my blades" and insult him. it just kinda eats the fun of the situation for not being able to take any kind of hostile action which would normally be taken. i mean, when a goblin follows someone to town, at first it walks forward in peace.. then it gets whacked from all directions. when i played my goblin which looks about same, wasn't attacked and people didn't even notice me.. except for a giant who wants to smash me but that too, if pvp was allowed and i woulda been smashed, i wouldnt have said it wasn't fun because that's what would really happen.
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Language people, language. If you can't follow that rule how are we to expect you to follow pvp rules?
quote*****
I get that too, and thats jerks as you call them, but everybody isn't like that. You see, i don't remember any account names at all, only short of player names. But there are jerks who wants to revenge on there characters.
Example, you gets in a fight with an challenging guy, you kicks his ass, big time! And the next day, a big ***** ****** Impossible big mama fighter, got a grudge against you. And wants to kick your ass.
Thats one jerk who doesn't know the feeling of RP, IC and that this is a game. He's an asshole, true!
end quote****
edit:added quote
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*nods, agreeing with Etinfall, so you know he must be right*
Vyris
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But, the PvP isn't fun if the odds are againt one of the players, for me at least. I like to fight an equal fight!
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Sry, i got mad. :D But's it true, they are mad, those who gets kicked big time. Can get angry and goes for a revenge. :( They are bad.
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This really just sounds like one of those "wouldn't it be cool IF we could take only the good stuff out of a potentially disastrous thing via an incredibly complicated rule/script/brainwashing process" thing.
It's not going to happen because of all the things already said (it's been stated very plainly), but people have agreed, it WOULD be cool if you could do X.
Frankly, I think while finding a few quarters at the bottom of a spiked pit would be pretty neat, it wouldn't be worth the fall. Especially if you had to spend ages making the pit for yourself to fall in. :o
*ponder* Maybe use a vacuum of some sort.
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A really good world where PvP is handled well is World of Caenyr ... and part of the reason it works is because by the time you spend any amount of time there you are level 20. So everyone is kinda balanced.
And there aren't really many penalties for death there either, so no one gets too mad ... and most guilds have a revival device so they can train with each other.
But, the fact that I am here and not there is proof of which I prefer ...
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If you really want pvp fights, fair ones, that bad there are pvp
worlds out there with some nice algorithms that prevent or allow
PvP between single characters or parties. Basicly a comparison
between the total lvls.
And playing on another server doesn't mean you can't play here too.
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Acacea - 7/23/2005 11:13 AM
This really just sounds like one of those "wouldn't it be cool IF we could take only the good stuff out of a potentially disastrous thing via an incredibly complicated rule/script/brainwashing process" thing.
It's not going to happen because of all the things already said (it's been stated very plainly), but people have agreed, it WOULD be cool if you could do X.
Frankly, I think while finding a few quarters at the bottom of a spiked pit would be pretty neat, it wouldn't be worth the fall. Especially if you had to spend ages making the pit for yourself to fall in. :o
*ponder* Maybe use a vacuum of some sort.
hehehe...exactly what you said.
While we're at it we could allow stealing as well!!! :)
*runs away laughing*
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First off, in a big ole battle between Tah and Al, I'd probably pay millions of billions of gold to watch it. I would be... y'know... humbled.
I remember on a semi-not-really-at-all-ever-allowed-PvP=thing RP server, I boxed a certain mage of great repute. Boxed. As in no weapons, just fists. No armor, no items no nothing. Darned mage cheated, and wore everything. And he knows who he is! Darned cheating grumble grumble...
Anyways... This has lead me to an idea!!! A boxing tournament! Wooo...
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Just jumping in with my opinion. I'm coming from a server where PVP was the main big thing. A war between Celestials and Demons with players in both factions. It was absolutely the best server i've played on but i grew kinda tired of my character there and decided to come and play here.
I for one think absolutely no PvP is a big limitation on my RPing. Last time a wizard summoned his familiar, an imp which basically is demonic and my character absolutely hates demons, of any kind. And all i could do was glare at it and even then i had to watch my language because i might anger other people with what they MIGHT think is offensive language. I think it wouldn't be the first time a person get sanctioned for using offensive language In Character?
My point is ... how is a person to RP these events? Am i allowed to smack the familiar? Should i just go on and "glare" at it all the time? I don't know ... suggestions are welcome.
A little more response of the other players would have helped too ... but nobody even tried to stop me when i got really angry at the imp. That actually was a big disappointment for me :(
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Umm those monks with +5 arms will win your boxing tournament naked.
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I hate PvP for the simple fact that it’s unfair. When people see an open pvp server rule they say “Yippy I can do anything I want!” And more times then not they can and the DM won’t say anything about it. Oh they may pretend they are playing favorites by making an exception to the rule here and there for the disadvantaged players. For the most part people are stupid in this world I don’t care how you look at it there are some ignorant people living among us and those are the kind of people that swarm a PvP server looking for a ‘good time’ killing other people. This server was made for only one purpose and that purpose being to have fun. No one is going to have any fun with Drow, Goblins, Orcs, Half giants, and so on roaming around and an open PvP rule given.. High level people will start attacking goblins and orcs on sight.
I say if your blood lust for conflict runs so deep that you would kill on sight then RP it out. Don’t attack the person but post that you are and see what happens.
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No, i just asked if there were possible to add PvP. But if it isn't, of course i can live with that. I like this world just like it is. But PvP, is some spice on the meatballs. Yummi! You understand?
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A boxing turnament, it is great! But i have heard it from an other server. But thats an good idéa.
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monks will fight in an other room, of course! They sort of, lives for boxing. :D
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Have you been a victim for an unfair match?? Impossible guys, sometimes, see the Effortless guys as N00bs, but they maybe even are better Rper than themselves. If you attack an effortless guy, you are an sadist, rude and bad player. That are not fun, expassially for the low lvl guy. He might get pissed, and smack you with their high lvl char. Then you see this unfair, it isn't. But it is unfair to attack at the first place. PvP can be fun, and it can be the worst thing happend to a server. It depends on the players. Of course! But i won't hate this server for not having PvP. Layonara is not for being evil, and being mean towards other players. This server is for being friends, so i have relized. I won't complain, this server is good as it is. But i'd like to have an boxing arena installed. :D