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The Layonara Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: NEXUS7 on November 29, 2005, 05:20:00 PM

Title: Are whips any good
Post by: NEXUS7 on November 29, 2005, 05:20:00 PM
Are whips of any use in NWN?
can you disarm a bad guy
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Talan Va'lash on November 29, 2005, 05:21:00 PM
disarm is disabled on layo, so their usefullness if definitely decreased.

-TV
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Guardian 452 on November 29, 2005, 05:32:00 PM
When compared to most weapons you can use, yes they are pretty useless especially with disarm not working...

but they still look and sound COOL !  :)


EDIT - Also once you get an element and silver enchant on one it would be a fine  weapon I think.




Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Dorganath on November 29, 2005, 05:47:00 PM
Bloodstone has one...*shrugs*
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Eloyn on November 29, 2005, 05:52:00 PM
I agree, pretty useless even with added damage, my cleric used one and he couldn't hit a goblin with it (equivalent of not hitting a barn 2 feet in front of you :) )
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Doc-Holiday on November 29, 2005, 05:53:00 PM
All the more to fear him...

Whip it... Whip it good...

huh?... medicine.. again? but Vyris....I just had some five minutes *gags*
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Vyris on November 29, 2005, 11:13:00 PM
I think we needs to increas Doc's dosage guys... this stuff isn't working real well anymore.


Vyris
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Talan Va'lash on November 30, 2005, 02:11:00 AM
whip it... into shape... shape it up....


-Sir Neverstays Ontopic
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: NEXUS7 on November 30, 2005, 03:38:00 AM
Its just that I would make whips have a stun efext, kind of sound shock
and the like. This would stop them form being just toys to some thing that
has a combat use. For use on mages it would be very good. Stun for 1 round
would mean its not to harsh in game but still have use.

Im going to post this one the Sugestion
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Thunder Pants on November 30, 2005, 05:20:00 AM
a stun effect is overpowered, it gives Rogues sneak attacks, prevents opponants from fighting back, and stops any current action the being was doing before, among other things, personaly i think if anything is done to the whips it should be an increase in the strike range, as this allows them to be used from outside the targets attackrange assuming the target is in combat with others, should the target not be in contact with outs the range gap is quickly closed

this allows the whip user to be a support combat character and keeps them relitivly out of harm
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Zen on November 30, 2005, 08:12:00 AM
How about a stun effect that gets everyone but the weilder of the whip? That would make it even.
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Bryantiza on November 30, 2005, 08:17:00 AM
I don't understand why the whips are so underpowered anyways. I mean in rl, a whip can do some serious damage if used properly... Surely it would do something like stun, or just cancels the attacked enemies current move, but does not stun him. I mean if I was about to hit someone and I was whipped I would be too busy screaming in pain to finish the attack... ah well thats my view. I'll stop talking now before I offend someone.
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Dorganath on November 30, 2005, 08:25:00 AM
You could say the same thing about being struck by a sword or a mace or something....even moreso, really. 
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Bryantiza on November 30, 2005, 08:29:00 AM
hmm okay point taken....but it is easier to dodge a sword or mace than it is a whip.  A whip moves at VERY high speeds and wouldn't be as easy to avoid or deflect...
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Dorganath on November 30, 2005, 08:46:00 AM
A whip is primarliy an instrument of discipline and punishment, not a weapon of war/combat.
  Armies did not go onto the battlefields brandishing whips, except maybe for their horses and pack animals.
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Harlas Ravelkione on November 30, 2005, 09:00:00 AM
If you are being charged by a dwarven warrior in full plate, who wears a helmet, carries a large shield and wields a battleaxe, would you try to whip this dwarf to death?
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Dorganath on November 30, 2005, 09:13:00 AM
*chuckles*
  [Fully Armored Dwarven Battlerager]: Oi'll cleave ye in two ye dirty drow! *charges* [Weakling Drow Whipping Boy]: Oh yeah? *snaps whip* [Fully Armored Dwarven Battlerager]: *cries* Oi.....Mommieeeee *runs away*
  Yeah...that's likely. :)
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Rasterick on November 30, 2005, 09:17:00 AM
Indianna Jones did a similar thing.. *scratches head* Nope, perhaps not.
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: LoganGrimnar on November 30, 2005, 09:23:00 AM
the extra range thing would be great for a whip
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Bryantiza on November 30, 2005, 09:28:00 AM
haha, yeah but it depends on the whip. If its got a sharp blade on the end then I don't see how it could be any less affective than a sword and to be fair theres not alot that can stop a fully armored dwarven battle rager from beating you up now is there?  ;)
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Candyman111 on November 30, 2005, 09:58:00 AM
A whip would be even better if you added a spring steel blade, a hilt,pommel, and crossguard, and maybe if you took away its overall flexablility.  In other words....get a sword.
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Vyris on November 30, 2005, 11:21:00 AM
Quote
Bryantiza - 11/30/2005  9:17 AM

I don't understand why the whips are so underpowered anyways. I mean in rl, a whip can do some serious damage if used properly... Surely it would do something like stun, or just cancels the attacked enemies current move, but does not stun him. I mean if I was about to hit someone and I was whipped I would be too busy screaming in pain to finish the attack... ah well thats my view. I'll stop talking now before I offend someone.


Got one word for you: Armor.

I don't care how good you are with a whip, if you smack me with a whip and I am wearing even reletively light padded armor I'm going to gut you like a fish with my sword before you do more than make me really mad.

Vyris
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Bryantiza on November 30, 2005, 11:26:00 AM
yeah but thats why i stated that with most fighting made whips, they tend to have sharp metal blades attached to the end to pierce armor and stuff. with a sharp light blade at the end, a whip can do some serious damage even with pretty thick armor..not to sure how well it could do against ful plate though...any one care to wear some full plate armor to find out  ;)  *please note i'm only joking..... hehe*
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Vyris on November 30, 2005, 11:34:00 AM
Quote
Bryantiza - 11/30/2005  12:26 PM

yeah but thats why i stated that with most fighting made whips, they tend to have sharp metal blades attached to the end to pierce armor and stuff. with a sharp light blade at the end, a whip can do some serious damage even with pretty thick armor..not to sure how well it could do against ful plate though...any one care to wear some full plate armor to find out  ;)  *please note i'm only joking..... hehe*


If you're going to stick spikes or blades on the end of a whip strong and large enough to penetrate armor you no longer have a whip, you have a morning star with a long reach.

Vyris
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Bryantiza on November 30, 2005, 11:48:00 AM
it wouldn't have lots of spikes. *sighs* hmm i'm not sure how to decribe it... erm. its just a whip but with a single spiked metal coat on the end.

Check out the picture on this link (if it works)

http://people.freenet.de/Pchan/Quistis%20Final%20Fantasy%20VIII.jpg

you get what I mean?

edit: but obviously it wouldn't be as big as that as it wouldn't work bery well unless its light metal.... but you get the general idea?
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Gulnyr on November 30, 2005, 01:52:00 PM
If you put an object on the end of a whip, like a blade, with enough mass to be effective against armor, you would change the way the whip worked.  The inertia of that object would change the way you would weild the whip, turning it into a sort of very long flail (but not a very good one).  It wouldn't really be a whip any more.  If the blade were small enough to still use the whip like a whip, it would be very light weight, so it wouldn't do anything to armored opponents, though it would help cut unprotected skin.
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Etinfall on November 30, 2005, 02:08:00 PM
whips break the speed of sound barrier. With a metal on the end you would not be able to do that.
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Red Monkey on November 30, 2005, 02:24:00 PM
***Old Fart Pontificates ALERT***

A whip does not break the sound barrier, although it does make a cracking sound by its ending action.  
Snapping your fingers does not break the sound barrier, but enough nitpicking.

The true power of a whip is to elicit pain avoidance. Any average person has no intention of having a whip hit them twice, regardless of the actual damage.  A verteran could not help but raise an arm in defence even while they are coming at you. A true master can blind you and do lordy knows what and tying someone to a post and going to town is excruiating and can lead to shock and infection but a whip is a tool for driving beasts and crowds.

Adding bits of glass and metal adds tetinus...more blood and more pain, too much added kills any accuracy even in the hands of a master.

In game you COULD argue that the target gets a -1 to hit from the fear of it and half movement towards you.  Damage resistant creatures would ignore it.  Could elicit fear from normal animals.

No more that 2 whip users can stack that -1 to hit....
Add magical effects to taste of course.

Nuts...this goes to the development threads now in spirit.
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: orth on November 30, 2005, 02:51:00 PM
Whips will pack a little more punch in the next update.  Still working out the changes.  Probably in base damage, critical threat and critical multiplier.
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Etinfall on November 30, 2005, 03:22:00 PM
Quote
Red Monkey - 11/30/2005  4:24 PM

***Old Fart Pontificates ALERT***

A whip does not break the sound barrier, although it does make a cracking sound by its ending action.  
Snapping your fingers does not break the sound barrier, but enough nitpicking.

The true power of a whip is to elicit pain avoidance. Any average person has no intention of having a whip hit them twice, regardless of the actual damage.  A verteran could not help but raise an arm in defence even while they are coming at you. A true master can blind you and do lordy knows what and tying someone to a post and going to town is excruiating and can lead to shock and infection but a whip is a tool for driving beasts and crowds.



Adding bits of glass and metal adds tetinus...more blood and more pain, too much added kills any accuracy even in the hands of a master.

In game you COULD argue that the target gets a -1 to hit from the fear of it and half movement towards you.  Damage resistant creatures would ignore it.  Could elicit fear from normal animals.

No more that 2 whip users can stack that -1 to hit....
Add magical effects to taste of course.

Nuts...this goes to the development threads now in spirit.


Whip
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
For other uses, see Whip (disambiguation).
A whip is a tapered flexible length of either a single cord or plaited (braided) leather or other material, commonly with a stiff handle. Whips are used to produce a loud sharp sound—a "crack"—to drive or direct livestock or harnessed animals.
When rapidly shaken at the base, whips "crack" and make a loud noise because their tails have broken the sound barrier.
Other devices made of straps and used to strike human beings or animals as a means of control or punishment or torture are sometimes also called whips—though they do not crack. These may include riding crops, horse whips, and various flogging instruments.

from this site-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whip

so it seems both are correct.
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Etinfall on November 30, 2005, 03:29:00 PM
and here.
http://www.earthsky.org/faqs/?f=96

FAQs about
When a whip "cracks," does it make the noise because the tip of the whip is breaking the sound barrier?
Yes, it does. When you snap a whip, you deliver energy to the handle portion of the whip. As that energy passes through the whip, the speed of the energy increases -- because the energy is spread out over a smaller area as the whip gets thinner and less stiff. At its tip, the whip may be moving at nearly twice the speed of sound. The speed of sound at sea level is seven hundred and sixty miles per hour.

So the tip of the whip moves faster than sound -- or "breaks the sound barrier." But why do we hear a noise when any object breaks the sound barrier?

A moving object creates pressure changes in the air around it. These changes move away from the object at the speed of sound. Most things in our everyday lives move slower than the speed of sound -- so they never catch up with the pressure disturbances they create. But if an object's velocity exceeds the speed of sound, the air molecules don't retreat fast enough to get out of the way of the object flying through them. The recoil of the air molecules creates a large amount of energy when the molecules smack back into each other. This movement of air molecules reaches our ear as the crack of a whip.
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Stephen_Zuckerman on November 30, 2005, 03:29:00 PM
If you stuck a piece of pointy metal on the end, a whip would cease to become a whip, and become an elastic rope dart with a handle.

Though with just the usual end, someone who's good with a whip can still slice a person open; that little bit of leather, going as fast as it does, will go right through skin. Only if done right, but still. And saying that a whip designed to crack is not so much meant to cause harm as sound... Well, stand there, and let me hit you with mine. Then you can say it, if you still feel that way.
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Red Monkey on November 30, 2005, 03:33:00 PM
Wikipedia.....you kids and your wikipedia.
  Using the term "breaking the sound barrier" is implicit with accelerating to a speed beyond the speed of sound.  Using it in lieu of "making a sound" is lazy.....wikipedia, WIKIPEDIA!
  *Blows the horn of battle and calls the old warriors*
  We cannot both be correct, two statements enter!
  One Statement leaves!
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Stephen_Zuckerman on November 30, 2005, 03:37:00 PM
I, also, have some disdain for Wikipedia... It's unreliable; all articles are submitted by more-or-less random users of the site. I've come across several that I knew for a fact to be false.

Anyway, the description of why a whip makes a sound that was posted just before my attempt at wit is indeed correct, and needs no further explanation.

There's your truth.

As for why snapping one's fingers makes a noise? It's your finger hitting the palm of your hand that does it.

... Yes, I did spend twenty minutes proving that to myself. BUT THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO. ;_;
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Guardian 452 on November 30, 2005, 03:40:00 PM
Quote
orth - 11/30/2005  4:51 PM

Whips will pack a little more punch in the next update.  Still working out the changes.  Probably in base damage, critical threat and critical multiplier.



Yay I know a certain Bard/Slalld of Xeen who is gonna be happy!  :)
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: Stephen_Zuckerman on November 30, 2005, 03:50:00 PM
I know quite a few people who'll be happy... Are whips Martial or Exotic in Layo?
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: FlameStrike on November 30, 2005, 05:56:00 PM
They are Exotic, from last time i had seen one.
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: NEXUS7 on December 01, 2005, 03:30:00 AM
Hazar
Looks like the whip thing will be looked into in the next update cool

I like the idaer of whips as a uneck wepon one that takes dedication to larn.
1: one feat to get it.


There is a wepon which is a balde on a chain thats how you get a whip with a blade
ya need some thing strong to hold the blade and it dont CRACK like a whip.

All looks good to me

Are whips DEX or STR to hit?
Say there DEX and a small wepon so expertes works
the grate clive would good if used with trip

I like the idear that whips dont kill they just subdue
feels better to me.


Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: NEXUS7 on December 01, 2005, 03:51:00 AM
>Got one word for you: Armor.

>I don't care how good you are with a whip, if you smack me with a whip and I am wearing even reletively light padded armor I'm going to gut you like a fish with my sword before you do >more than make me really mad.

>Vyris

I agree with that but remeber in Layonara magic could push PAIN throw that armor as the natuer of the whip is unneak
or if it could trip and was a dex wepon than that same armor could be come your down fall.
Thats why I like trip.

One of the resaons that full plate armor was over taken in history was the fact that foot men in light armor with the new
High carben Stelto style rapeers could inflicks peasring wouns throw that armor the more you try to make that armor proof to
such atacks the more restrictive it became. Only in mass combat on and off hosues did it sustain a place
untill gun powder put pay to its protetive eliments even in that.

A man with full plate on has a hell of a job running down a man with no armor and a fine sword.
In mass combat this is not true but in a one to one fight in the open.
Your dead if you have full plate on for a long combat, ya have to close and kill as fast as you can.
Or your just swinging half blind trying to get a lucky hit wile yous light aponent just bides his time

Like a wolf hunting elk he can just run you down.
If he has a bow or cross bow ya just as dead.

But NWN is not the real world so I would say whips should cut throw armor.

Thats just my point of view

Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: lunchboxkilla on December 03, 2005, 07:08:00 AM
Armor has gaps joints and open holse that can lead to an easy death to the person that wears it.  A helm can nopt cover a neck, Arms need to move freely, and if your a man.... Plates of steel down there!?Moving as fast as I run? your kidding right?
Title: RE: Are whips any good
Post by: FlameStrike on December 03, 2005, 07:39:00 AM
Every melee weapon uses the STR to hit, unless it is considered light and you take Weapon Finesse, then if your DEX modifier is higher, that's what will count for your AB.
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