The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xavori on May 05, 2006, 01:58:52 PM
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Hello there. Just in case you don't know, I'm a fairly new player to Layonara, and I've just reached level 5 with my dear Rogue character :). Mainly, due to the support and help from many powerful heroes and heroines in the town of Hlint (Long list, growing every day!).
My question/issue: I find it hard to find a place where to hunt monsters without getting killed, going all by myself. The monsters are either too weak, and thus I get little to no exp, or too strong, and even if I kill them I end up severly wounded. My tactics are simple yet effective: go on stealth, sneak attack, switch to melee once they approach. I've tried Seilwood forest, the crypts, and the north of Hlint (Where orcs have a great time slaughtering me :P).
Now, don't get me wrong, but while I enjoy roleplaying a lot, I'd also like to progress with my character. That's why I'm asking for help in this area. So if you've got strategy tips or maybe a recommendation of where to hunt creatures, I'd be most grateful.
(I hope I post this in the right forum; I tried looking for a "Assistance" type of sub-forum, but found none)
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Layo aren't meant to be solo-ed (you'll have a hard time doing that, even harder one since you play a rogue)... :)
And, with a party, you can pretty much go everywhere you want (you'll at least notice when you can't move any further).
*thinks* Actually, I don't belive there exist a place like that you describe...
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pure rogues aren't strong solo characters, especially at low levels.
for one they rely on being able to attack a monster thats not attacking them to get sneak attacks, if you're soloing, everything is attacking you and you can't sneak attack.
That said, soloing with almost any character wont be a very rewarding experience. D&D is buit for a party, and Layo tries to stay close to that mindset.
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It's dissapointing that I can't solo, at least to some extent. Especially with so few people around my level available to go hunting (Most of the time I'm forced to ask someone with a rating of Overpowering or Impossible to aid me). Seems like I should wait for people to appear so that I can go out and hunt. Or at least do something else meanwhile. I don't feel like bugging high level folks with "wanna hunt slimes with me today?" all the time :p
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You'll get used to it. All the characters i've had on here get to about level five and from there on it's a bit of a slow process to level 10. But once you get used to it you'll realise it's better that way.
Don't feel too bad about not being able to solo either, yes it's harder as a Rogue, but it's not particularly easy as a fighter character either :)
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feniox - 5/5/2006 4:30 PM
You'll get used to it. All the characters i've had on here get to about level five and from there on it's a bit of a slow process to level 10. But once you get used to it you'll realise it's better that way.
Don't feel too bad about not being able to solo either, yes it's harder as a Rogue, but it's not particularly easy as a fighter character either :)
I sure hope I get used to it. It's just not nice to keep asking other people of higher level to help you out, since there's no one of your own level range to hunt with.
Why is it "a slow progress to level 10"? What happens then :O
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Oh the XP needs tend to get VERY high..........
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As i was just looking at the calender like i do most days , just notice a quest Minerva is running that would be great for you , you get the chance to gain the Exp that you want , Its a great chance also to RP and meet new people to hunt with in the future ....
Check it out and see if it fits you time frame ,
Mumbles
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mumbles - 5/5/2006 6:15 PM
As i was just looking at the calender like i do most days , just notice a quest Minerva is running that would be great for you , you get the chance to gain the Exp that you want , Its a great chance also to RP and meet new people to hunt with in the future ....
Check it out and see if it fits you time frame ,
Mumbles
Thanks for the head's up. But I didn't sign myself up for that one since it says "party limit 10", and there's way over 10 people already there :o
But, if it seems like I can participate anyways, I'll gladly sign up.
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See......I've come across this problem a kajillion times.....People wont hunt with you because of your play time which kinda sucks because you level uber slow......So then you get stuck and screwed like me after playing here for 2 years with your highest a level 10 character...
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Weston is Lv 10
Ward Ferrier is lv 6
see them.. play with them.. they love you
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Dulan is level 10, and he ususally takes some lower levels ogre hunting (But not in a power-leveling way, just a kill here or there), There will be some characters your level, even if it's a level 2 cleric for example, you could go a bit further with his healing for example.
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Xavori - 5/6/2006 3:46 AM
mumbles - 5/5/2006 6:15 PM
As i was just looking at the calender like i do most days , just notice a quest Minerva is running that would be great for you , you get the chance to gain the Exp that you want , Its a great chance also to RP and meet new people to hunt with in the future ....
Check it out and see if it fits you time frame ,
Mumbles
Thanks for the head's up. But I didn't sign myself up for that one since it says "party limit 10", and there's way over 10 people already there :o
But, if it seems like I can participate anyways, I'll gladly sign up.
One more won't hurt then... ;)
Not everyone who signs up actually show up, and not everyone who show up signs up either. And, I'm not aware of any "don't sign up if party limit is hit"-rule here.
If there are too many people showing up on the quest, the DM usually lets everyone roll a d100 or whatever and the people with the lowest rolls are forced to leave.
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Xavori: Hey there - I got a strategy that you can use on your own. It is not a really "super-mega-major-extra" strategy but it can make a difference.
1- Sneak up to a foe - make sure only to have one foe at the time
2. Attack a few times - when more foes are entering the battle - you run
3. You run around a corner and try hide - this is something that takes time to learn - further you have to find out what foes you can hide from.
4. If you manage to hide - move a bit away and heal up
5. Make ready for another attack and make sure to aim for the wounded one again.
This is "some" way to do it, it takes time in the beginning - but it is a way...
Last: I believe everyone reading this will scream, yell and call me a power-player.....but hey ;) ..Fighters, mages, clerics etc have their way.... rouges have another way...
And I could easily make an excuse for this way of playing - as everyone could agree with it or disagree
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Disclaimer: Don't do any of this unless you can back it up with RP - this is the Powergamer's explanation, though there are other reasons that go along with it.
Hiding around corners doesn't actually work... Though you do get a nice Sneak Attack when they come bustling around the corner after you.
Invest in Hide and Move Silently. Heavily. As a Rogue, they are your most important skills. Though, really, you should drop some into Open Lock and Disable Device (I'm sorry, Disable Trap), so that you're more useful in party at higher levels. Tumble's another IMPORTANT one - you get boosts to your AC every five ranks.
H&MS keep you from being seen, and thusly slaughtered. It also helps when you can single out an opponent, and Sneak Attack him. Don't forget, when you attack a spellcaster, you get a Sneak Attack right after they cast a spell.
At low-to-mid levels, you are most useful right behind the front guys, raining death with a bow or crossbow. You'll deal damage like a fighter with a greatsword, three or four levels higher than you. Don't forget to keep your meatshields alive, though; one Ogre Berserker breaking through the line to wail on you can be decidedly problematic.
A Rogue is the ultimate Jack-of-all-Trades, as you know. Dishing out monstrous damage behind the meatshields, healing people with potions (and, outside of battle, Healing Kits - by the way, Heal's another important skill, because Kits cost less than potions), unlocking things and disabling traps, scouting ahead, even using the occasional scroll, wand, or alignment-restricted item.
But remember. In combat, if you're not doing Sneak Attacks, then you're nothing more than a fighter of three-quarters your level with light armor and worthless HP.
Aye, most of this is dealing with partied combat. Why? Rogues can't Solo very well on Layo. At all. No animal companion, no heavy armor, no buffs... Just a double handfull of d6 extra damage when you suprise an enemy.
Party up. Or settle in for a long, grueling slog to the next level.
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Varka - 5/6/2006 10:02 AM
Xavori: Hey there - I got a strategy that you can use on your own. It is not a really "super-mega-major-extra" strategy but it can make a difference.
1- Sneak up to a foe - make sure only to have one foe at the time
2. Attack a few times - when more foes are entering the battle - you run
3. You run around a corner and try hide - this is something that takes time to learn - further you have to find out what foes you can hide from.
4. If you manage to hide - move a bit away and heal up
5. Make ready for another attack and make sure to aim for the wounded one again.
This is "some" way to do it, it takes time in the beginning - but it is a way...
Last: I believe everyone reading this will scream, yell and call me a power-player.....but hey ;) ..Fighters, mages, clerics etc have their way.... rouges have another way...
And I could easily make an excuse for this way of playing - as everyone could agree with it or disagree
I was told by a DM, that you shouldn't run from monsters as it's abuse of AI. Also, if you can't handle something you must just get stuck in there and die - Highly unlikely due to human nature to survive.
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Xavori - 5/5/2006 5:47 PM
Why is it "a slow progress to level 10"? What happens then :O
As someone else said, the XP requirements to level do get really high, people usually find the gap between levels 8-10 to be the longest ones. But once you get to level 10 it evens out a bit because you can then start venturing (and being useful) to groups on the central server, and the XP for the creatures there is quite good.
It took me ages to get Kurgaz to level 10, but once I was there and started travelling with friends on Dregar I started getting a level in just over a week, until I got to level 14, when it slows down a bit again. I'm on level 15 now and don't expect to be levelling again in a hurry, as I've only been on for quests and the like recently, though if I started joining more groups in between it probably wouldn't be so hard.
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surely that way is only doable with hide in plain sight
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Thank you all for the information; sadly, I've been doing all of that, even the skill selection. Now I wonder if I should begin a new character, so that it isn't that hard to solo...
In any case, I still appreciate the feedback. If I decide to create a new character, which class would you say that is good at soloing? I just don't want to be doing nothing at all while I wait for people to come and have adventures with me :(
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okay.
First: Get the idea of "soloing" out of your head. Seriously. As has been said, this place is designed around the party. Any place you can solo should be someplace waaaaaaaaaaay below your level and shouldn't provide you with much if any XP. (as I think you've discovered)
Second: Get the idea of "soloing" out of your head. There is nothing wrong with a 5th level character hangning with a 15th level, as long as the 15th level isn't leading the 5th level around so the 5th level can mooch XP. If there is an RP reason, RP going on, then it isn't a big deal. There are some fine lines that can be abused here, but I think if you just use a little common sense, you'll understand what I mean.
Third: Get the... hehe... actually, unless you're a cleric smiting undead or slightly evil, adventurers don't run around "hunting" without a good in-character reason. Gold can be a very good in-character reason. But please don't be stupid and camp an area for gold. Your character has no concept of XP as a system of numbers, and he can practice is sword play in a sparring round less dangerously and nearly as effectively as in an ogre cave. Going after CNR and exploration are two more good in-character reasons to face down some uglies.
Fourth: Any character you make, will have a hard time soloing. If you aren't having a hard time, then that means we need to fix something. This place is designed around interaction. I suggest you see about getting into one of the quests on the calendars, and spending time at the player events, specifically at either of the player run taverns: the Leilon Arms and the Freelancer's Tavern.
Fifth: You are only ever "doing nothing" if you choose to be. There is soooooooo much to do beyond monster killing that's still adventurous. And that brings up the same discussion that has been brought up many times. This place puts character development above numerical progression. Therefore things take ~time~. DM run quests are the primary source of experience. But they are also steeped in RP. There are numerous disussions on this in the forums. If you want to know more, do a search.
If and when I think of more stuff, I'll blabber on some more. :P
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@Philosopher - for a rogue, it's very RP-friendly to run and hide and strike again.
If the rogue can outrun the monster chasing him, and makes his way around a corner - why, it's the perfect time to set up an ambush. The monster charges around the corner... and comes up short, looking around in confusion. Why, that adventurer MUST be here, he just came this way! Our intrepid hero releases his hold on the rockface above and behind the unsuspecting monster, landing silently as a cat, and approaches stealthily, his dagger already drawn and gleaming in the moonlight....
Bwa haa haa haa...
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the action that should not be done and is exploitative and harms other players in an ooc manner is leading enemies to a transition to get away from them.
Don't lead enemies to a transition to play the "who can load into the next area faster and get away" game. It leaves the monsters there at the transition to attack other players who go through the transition before they even fully load the area. The "hey, don't expect stuff to always be the same, its a dynamic world." excuse does not hold out in this circumstance as area transitions are an ooc bow to the game mechanics. characters should not be ambushed at transitions because a transition isn't an IC chokepoint its an ooc chokepoint. IC, walking is continuous, you walk around from one place to the next and don't have to wait to load the area.
Anyway, thats whats against the rules to do wrt running away. Its fine to run away and set up an ambush as long as you are not exploiting the AI in some other way (i.e. getting them stuck on terrain so you can snipe them with a bow or getting them to do any other such silly thing that is obviously due to the stupid AI and not something any living being would do.)
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Why not RP in Hlint for a while? Walk up to a stranger sat on the bench near Hlint bank, introduce yourself and talk, Dulan tends to ask LOADS of questions and sometimes get into arguments about things, or get a deep insight at another character's past...
Also if I am in "Nothing to do state" I tend to craft, like chop some trees to make into charcoal, collect knuckles to enchant with etc etc....As your a rouge, maybe some clay and sand to tinker, make moulds and glass ingots to then sell on!
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I've read waaaay to many suggestions about "Why don't you roleplay, too?", and while I understand that they are good-intentioned, let me assure you that I like roleplaying, and I'm not obsessed with being the number one player in matters of levels or something like that ;)
Yes, I know that I can roleplay with others if there isn't a buddy to hunt stuff with. Yes, I know that I can craft stuff, but trust me when I tell you, it's frustrating to gather resources only to have them go to waste after trying to craft the most basic items (Like cloth).
Still, the comments posted recently have given me time to change my perspective, and so I'll focus more on roleplaying, rather than always being out there, hunting and slaying critters. I can't participate in most events, mainly because I don't have the time to remain in my pc for so many hours in a row, either because my siblings come by and want their turns, or simply because my eyes and body hurt like... a lot, if I play for too long.
Once more, thank you for the help. It's useful :)
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Hey, I'm pretty new too, but I've made some great friends so far (some VASTLY higher in level than me). Still, I know where you're coming from. Trying to RP a paladin the way he's supposed to be, I'm not one to go up and attach myself to groups or what not (a paladin would find that imposing). On the other hand, just from having conversations with folks, I get invited on a great many outings ("to root out evil" and the like; fantastic IC reasons for a paladin) with high level people, and the experience (both the points and the time spent with new friends) is really good.
I'm on most nights, usually between 2130 and 2300 CST. For a rogue and a paladin to team up will take some interesting RP, but I'm sure we could hash it out. Look up Creighton...be happy to play with you.:)
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Creighton - 5/6/2006 8:10 PM
Hey, I'm pretty new too, but I've made some great friends so far (some VASTLY higher in level than me). Still, I know where you're coming from. Trying to RP a paladin the way he's supposed to be, I'm not one to go up and attach myself to groups or what not (a paladin would find that imposing). On the other hand, just from having conversations with folks, I get invited on a great many outings ("to root out evil" and the like; fantastic IC reasons for a paladin) with high level people, and the experience (both the points and the time spent with new friends) is really good.
I'm on most nights, usually between 2130 and 2300 CST. For a rogue and a paladin to team up will take some interesting RP, but I'm sure we could hash it out. Look up Creighton...be happy to play with you.:)
Thanks. I'll try to remember your name if I say you :)
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Even after all this time I'm still in that same position. "Cleansing X area of Y evildoers" gets so old its irritating, but even in groups it has to be done so often to gain that next level you want to puke. I usually end up sitting in Hlint until I log off because everyone's talking about plots I have never heard of, or the wrong combination of people is around to do anything. i.e. no cleric/fighter/rogue(for Storan's)/etc. . . A lot of times, anywhere groups want to "go" involves at least 1-2 hours, and I don't always have the time to join them since travel time to a lot of places can be upwards of 30 minutes.
Roleplaying is nice, but *just* sitting in Hlint all the time gets old.
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PsychicToaster - 5/8/2006 11:11 AM
Even after all this time I'm still in that same position. "Cleansing X area of Y evildoers" gets so old its irritating, but even in groups it has to be done so often to gain that next level you want to puke. I usually end up sitting in Hlint until I log off because everyone's talking about plots I have never heard of, or the wrong combination of people is around to do anything. i.e. no cleric/fighter/rogue(for Storan's)/etc. . . A lot of times, anywhere groups want to "go" involves at least 1-2 hours, and I don't always have the time to join them since travel time to a lot of places can be upwards of 30 minutes.
Roleplaying is nice, but *just* sitting in Hlint all the time gets old.
That's my fear, too. Today I did a GM quest (Great quest, by the way), and it took about 3 hours to do.I'm afraid I won't have the time to do things like that all days. Especially if I get a job for the summer. I wonder what I will do when my levelling depends on GM quests... roleplaying at Hlint forever sounds like something that will get old, as you say.
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I just find it irksome that we have to dance around the word "Hunting" as a naughty word even though that's exactly what people are doing.
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PsychicToaster - 5/9/2006 7:52 AM I just find it irksome that we have to dance around the word "Hunting" as a naughty word even though that's exactly what people are doing.
unless you play a dim witted half-orc ;) (that is currently a bit stuffed up cos i'm stupid and forgot tho change his name when i rebuilt him >