The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: EdTheKet on July 08, 2006, 02:09:32 AM
-
It’s on nearly everyone’s mind these days. What is Layonara going to do with the characters when we move over.
First, let me make clear to you all that we have not decided yet what to do.
However, I will try to list the things we’re weighing, and maybe you as player have some insight as well.
Many things are not yet known about NWN2 though. What we do know is that in NWN2, you can’t go beyond lvl 20. Level 20+ is likely being saved for expansion packs.
So here’s a list of options, note that there might be more, but it’s the ones that are most obvious.
You will see problems with each of them, as well as advantages and disadvantages, which all need to be taken into consideration and weighed.
Feasibility, practicality, player happiness, player retention, consistency, all these things need to be taken into account.
Hopefully, you will see that it is by no means a clear cut case or a straightforward decision which needs to be made.
1. The Full Wipe
This means everyone starts a new character at level 1. That way, it’s a new start for everyone.
Advantages:
- everyone starts out the same
- everything is new for everyone
- you get the option to break out of your ‘group’ you may have been in and leveled with in NWN1 and meet more people then those that were close to your level in NWN1
- players can’t explore every area of the new servers immediately, they need to grow in power first before being able to explore everywhere.
Disadvantages:
- everybody loses his NWN1 character to whom he/she has grown attached and invested a lot of time in
- hundreds of new character submissions to be approved by the GMs (but this can be done in a long period, i.e. open up submissions 2 months before switching or something)
- people leaving because there is no point in continuing to play with a character that can’t be played in NWN2
2. The carry-over-characters-to-NWN2 option
This means people get to keep their characters and play on. This isn’t as easy as it sounds though.
Problems:
- Characters from NWN1 can probably not be imported into NWN2 so have to be remade. All of them, which is a lot of work (and comes in addition to building a new world)
- Characters of lvl 20+ need to be delevelled somehow, as 20+ doesn’t exist in NWN2. How should these be delevelled? To 20? To half their level? Some other factor?
And if we delevel them by a certain factor, how do we deal with characters below 20?
And how do we explain away the fact that characters all of a sudden become less powerful then they were?
- What to do with crafting? It is not known if we can implement CNR in NWN2. If it can, do we return people to their previous crafting level, or change it, or set it to zero (which would be strange).
Advantages:
- People keep the characters they already have
Disadvantages:
- Consistency issues with conversions (i.e. becoming less powerfull, having a lower crafting skill)
- Lots of work transferring characters to NWN2
- People can immediately explore all new servers because of their high level, this can lead to a ‘been there, done that, bye bye’ attitude with players leaving.
- people don’t start out all equal
3. The “in between” option
A certain level is set, everyone above gets transferred to NWN2 (but delevelled in some way due to the lvl 20 max issue), everyone below that certain level needs to start over.
Advantages:
- less work in transferring and conversion
- some people would keep their characters, and they are likely those who already influenced the world, like completing their Epic or World Leader quest.
Disadvantages:
- some people will not keep their characters. So it can (and will) be seen as an unfair transfer, so people will leave
- people don’t start out all equal
4. Full wipe with extras
Everyone will start a new character at lvl 1, however, those who left a mark on the world (i.e. successfully completed their Epic/WLDQ, or above a certain level) get something extra. Examples could be some kind of descent from the previous character (if the NWN2 campaign is in the future), note that this does not mean special powers or anything, just some added flavor.
They could for example, describe the history of the family line from the NWN1 character to the NWN2 one.
Advantages:
- everyone starts out the same
- everything is new for everyone
- you get the option to break out of your ‘group’ you may have been in and leveled with in NWN1 and meet more people then those that were close to your level in NWN1
- players can’t explore every area of the new servers immediately, they need to grow in power first before being able to explore everywhere.
-there’s still a sense of being linked to ‘old’ characters.
Disadvantages:
- everybody loses his NWN1 character to whom he/she has grown attached and invested a lot of time in
- hundreds of new character submissions to be approved by the GMs (but this can be done in a long period, i.e. open up submissions 2 months before switching or something)
- people leaving because there is no point in continuing to play with a character that can’t be played in NWN2, but maybe less so as there’s a sense of continuity.
So you see, there's a lot to consider, as well as several things that are unknown. That's why we still haven't decided on what we're going to do yet.
Feel free to share your insights, but please do take into account the points already raised above, and think of any advantages, disadvantages and potential problems with your suggestion.
Thank you.
-
I don't mind waiting until you guys have decided on what you want to do.
I am already taking steps for a possible "full wipe with extras"-option, I am completely aware that it might not happen and I'm oke with that.
Personally I would start a new character for layo/nwn2 anyhow, since it would be easier for me to RP not knowing all areas. It’s harder for me if my character knows a lot of areas and I as a player haven't been there.
I understand that a full wipe (with or without extra's) would mean I have to make an new character that might (or might not) be a descendant of my NWN1 character.
I also understand that it would mean you guys of the team would have to get a lot of submissions approved. But starting with the submissions about 2 moths before release sounds like a possible solution. Still it would mean a lot of work for the layo team.
The problem of some players leaving because of one of the options is something that might not be avoidable. Since some people can not or will not buy NWN2 for what ever reason. On the other side the players that love to be on Layo for reasons like: loving the RP quality or other reasons, will not leave, or at least try every option they have to be able to play on Layo/NWN2. I’m not sure about that but it's my own view on things. I understand if not every player agrees with me.
Like I said a full wipe with or without extra's, sounds like a good idea to me. But then again I haven't been playing for a very long time and I'm not too attached to my character.
-
Nice post Ed :)
Reading through I must say I like option 4 the best.
1. The disadvantages of having to put out hundred of work hours ressurecting the characters from today's layonara, reintegrating them in the new world. In terms of character power, crafting, soulstrands?, property and overall cohession to its predecessor of today, I simply don't see how this option can be comfortable. Even if you neglect most of it, which you state would be odd, it will likley take just as long having them returned, as it would getting regular subs, probably even longer.
There is the level question, who gets what and why, is it fair. It brings so many issues that simply has a huge headache warning written all over it.
2. The joy in doing something new.
Being unable to see everything and travel everywhere is something that will drive people to continue playing.
Isn't it human nature to explore the unknown? :)
I mean come on, you aren't going to be copy pasting layo into nwn2? :O
What will be beyond the horizon of the new layonara "hlint"?
3. The equality factor.
Even though some world leaders of today might have left a more significant mark in the history of layonara. Being able to describe a familly line and perhaps play a decendant of their character of today's world isn't impossible for anyone?
The only difference is of course not everyone will play the decendant of the harper or the bird lord?
And even if they choose to do so, does it automatically mean they will become the new one in the new world?
If it makes more sense then perhaps put it some old characters as NPCs if the future isn't too far off.
Then in time, a new player controlled character could replace the NPC. Be it a known and skilled warrior, a dwarven thane, the harper etc. It would make sense and still bring an overall fairness.
4. The new Era.
The time of the dragon called is over. Or will be over as the Dark Ages ends?
What will become of Layonara, will the dregarian kingdom recover? Or will new warlords fight it out and forge their own new kingdoms and empires?
No matter the outcome, I think with a new era, there should be a new people, and a new generation of adventurers.
-
This may be a daft question but what is the rush to transfer to NWN2?
If Layo waited until the expansion packs come out that do allow 20+ characters then there would be no need for any decisson. I mean Layo isn't looking at tranfering to NWN2 till around four months after it's released anyway by which point there will most likely be at least one expansion out.
Those that wished to create new characters could and those with time invested in exisiting characters could transfer them.
Also it would allow the whole team more time to play with and poke at NWN2 before it went 'live' on Layo so to speak as well as allowing more time for money to be raised to sort out the servers to run NWN2....Would give Obsidian chance to iron out the kinks too.
-
Oh oh oh! I'm not going to make this confusing or long winded... 1 or 4. Pretty simple, I like 1 and 4! :)
-
My feelings are leaning toward option 4, but I'm with DMOE. Why the rush? Looking at my 3year old PC and the specs for NWN2 I know an upgrade is not in the budget for a good long time.
-
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Love the idea of a full wipe. Already got my next char planned (monk, of course). Those people who had the time, patience and devotion to make their mark in NWN will likely do so again in NWN 2, old char or no. It's the person, not the char.
Only one other thing; I reallllly hope there is CNR and crafting in NWN 2...that is a big big part of the game for me.
-
Honora - 7/8/2006 5:10 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Love the idea of a full wipe. Already got my next char planned (monk, of course). Those people who had the time, patience and devotion to make their mark in NWN will likely do so again in NWN 2, old char or no. It's the person, not the char.
Only one other thing; I reallllly hope there is CNR and crafting in NWN 2...that is a big big part of the game for me.
I´ll have to disagree since I can name a long list of players/characters who do not play as much any longer. As such loosing their characters could become aproblem to them.
That being said, I will really agree with any decision being made, though I do fancy keeping Rufus around.
PS. This just came to my mind, the point about character suddenly becoming weak, if they are being tranfered, is a bit wrong. Because relatively to the entire world, they will still remain very powerful. So it is not the level, but the level/world ratio that counts
-
One more thing, sorry about the second post, but I thought it was better that way.
A plus to transfering some (all) of the characters to NWN2 is that the balancing process will be easier. The entire world - all dungeons, areas, enemies - will be tested, since there will higher level characters from the start. As such you will be able to solve all the balancing issues at once, instead of them kreeping up one by one and causing trouble.
I will bring an example, the crypt on east, the one near Demon mountains. It was rarely used, as there were few epics back then, so even though balance issues existed, nobody knew of them. Then one group of players camped and was caught, remember the scandal?
I think it could have been avoided if there were more players moving around the area. So this experience should be kept in mind during the transition to NWN2
-
Im also going with 1 or 4.
I agree that the time some people have put into their PCs deserves recognition. Anyone who has completed a World Leader quest should have some kind of recognition in NWN ( special abilitie.....increase in a certain save or certain stat ).....since theyve helped shape Layo.
But I must confess, I would like the chance to start from scratch with everyone else and claw my way up to an Epic Level 20. It would probably gut me to start NWN2 as a new Level 1 character.....and find that there are already Level 20 characters running around.....claiming all the best quests and having their names placed into the history of Layonara all over again.
It would be nice to give everyone the chance to change the path of Layonara if they wish to put the hours into it.
Or....if characters are transferable......make them keep their DT tokens.
Not sure. Come on folks, what you think?
-
Option 1 for me. I like it as it will place all players at the same point.
-
I would think you wouldn't need the extras option in order to say you were descended from x character, otherwise there'd be little question. You'd just take the full wipe and for the majority of characters it would make little difference if they said they were N's great-great-great-great-great grandson or something. For anyone in any position of influence or the few playing a PC that would be legend in the future, that would be something of a bummer and lacking in flavor, as that option wouldn't be really open for them...in a sense, punishing the ones who have been around the longest and spent the most time on their characters. :)
Option number four takes into account the need for less strain on the staff in the transfer-headache, the need for a clean start for everyone to start at the same level and the world to be made into how it is envisioned, and the need to not totally rip apart all the time of stories and development that many people have put as many as a few years into, and the quests that have revolved around them. Some for only a single character that will be lost in the wipe.
I don't see, for instance, why Kobal's descendants wouldn't still hold the mountain...and also don't really see why Harlas couldn't play one of them. ;) It's not a super-item, not uber-powers, just a piece of a story, a single facet of development handed down instead of being lost to a transition. I know I can think of a few people that would simply not be returning should they not be able to salvage at least a little bit of the stories they've put so much into. Many people still would, but I think the last option best suits everyone, in both fresh starts all around, and acknowledging work and loyalty.
Even if we waited for epic levels, I don't think the characters should be transferred over, at all, ever.
In fact, whether or not we switch to NWN2 at all, it seems like an overhaul should be had at some point, even moreso with the main plot completed... I imagine there are a lot of unhappy people that wouldn't agree with me, though. :)
a) I don't think any of the 'extras' should be in terms of items, levels, stats, or that kind of mechanical gain, unless/until it merely ties in with something similar to 'epic' status much much much later in life. In which case it's still not a mechanical benefit at the start.
b) I don't think it should be just 'World Leaders' OR 'anyone above a certain level.' I suppose it makes it harder that way, but it is after all up to the players to write the things. There is no level that I would say "everyone above this has affected the world enough to do it" but it certainly isn't limited to epics, either. Maybe scale it by level but widen the number who can try for it, or something. One of those "broaden selection, raise standards" things.
c) I think in the case of multiple characters that have had such an effect on the world, only one per player should be approved like that (ie with the 'extras) from the start. I'm not really seeing this as a "must-do," just a suggestion.
d) I'm not in any hurry... and I feel like I have a long way to go with my character. I just think it should be done eventually, regardless of what game we're playing. As long as we know a ways ahead of time, we can at least know to wrap up our stories or not.
(Edited for grammar: affect/effect)
-
I'll just throw out a crazy idea...
First, I am assuming that for the first 4-6 months that nwn2 is out the Layonara world team will be excited (like many of us) and will be working on the nwn2 version of the world. This leaves a gap in support of the nwn1 version which we should all expect. The team will have the tough job of trying to keep a solid player base while balancing work on the new version. On the other hand, lots of players too will take this time to play with nwn2 themselves outside of Layonara.
So, here's the crazy idea: Have the current world, Layo #1, slowly begin shrinking due to some cataclysm. Areas begin disappearing to ruin, foes once spread out are driven to other areas as if before a wild fire. The module shrinks which hopefully reduces Layo #1 support hastles but keeps players entertained. As portions of Layo #2 come online, a portal opens. Your PC from Layo #1 can step back and forth through the portal. In the Layo #2 version he starts at level 1 as they are truly two separate char vaults on the server. I'll leave the full story of the two worlds up to others more creative than myself.
What does this do? It is kind of like the best of both worlds.
- You keep your old PC in the old dying world as you build your new PC with the same persona.
- Perhaps there are some quests on the old Layo #1 side that bestow power/gifts/items to the Layo #2 side (since inventories don't swap across the portal).
- Players get a chance to migrate themselves from nwn1 to nwn2 (system hardware, new game features, etc.)
- The Layo team gets to roll things out as slowly as they wish. No rush or pressure on them.
-
Though its a tough pill to swallow, a total wipe and starting everyone at level one is my first choice. I think the fear of it is greater than the actuality. I understand the loss of a cherished character but I think we all are creative enough here to come up with a new character for the new PW. Also, if you love a character you presently have, just re-make them in the new world. Now you get to play them all over again and explore their personality.
I will mention I do also see the advantages to option 4. I also play on a server called Stormnexus, where there is something called "Ascensions". Many of you have probably seen this idea before. A character reaches level 40 and submits for an Ascension. They are give a number of points to spend on stats, feats, or skills. Then they make the new version of their character (changing the name slightly) and once the ascension is appproved and the waiting period over, the chosen bonus skills, feats, etc. are edited into their character and it can be played. This gives an extra edge to the Ascended character. They start at level one but have an extra feat or two, or their DEX or STR is higher than what a "normal" 1st level character is capable of.
Personally I advocate Option 1, however painful initially. I think we all at one point or another deal with the loss of a character here and on other servers. I just saw the post about a character named Glenn who got his last DT and was sorely missed by the player and his friends. Its sad, but I would imagine the player will make a new character and develop a whole new aspect of RP with it. So in a way we all already face the imminent fact of losing our characters here.
-
I think Pen N Popper has the best idea here. at least as far as slowly destroying layo 1 and implementing layo 2 on the server as it is available. I would, however combine it with option 1. That would allow players to continue with their current characters and experminent with a new character on layo 2 as the world slowly grows. And as Pen notes, slowly killing one world and rolling out the new one allows the team to progress at a more comfortable pace. That might mean an easier time fixing bugs and ironing out kinks.
I personally will probably not be getting nwn2 right off the bat, as it is going to require serious hardware upgrades for both me and my wife. Those aren't cheap :)
combining these two ideas would allow me more time to get the necessary upgrades to play nwn2. I would hate to have to leave layo just because my computers aren't up to playing the new version.
-
A couple thoughts, and I'm sure there will be some difference in opinions here. I'm happy to have a polite discussion on any of these points with anyone disagreeing. 1) There is no way to be 100% fair if there are transfers. 2) There will be a population of players that find transfers to be a form of favoritism, and while I personally think favoritism is as natural as butter on bread... it's still a burden on the community to have it rear it's head in the form of rants or general big brother theorists. 3) Anyone who feels that holding onto their time invested character translates into more roleplay opportunity is wrong. I've actually found that there's a propensity towards decreased roleplay value if they are thrown in at an increased level. Their own experience is diminished and it's akin to being on staff and building the world. You see it too fast and just plain aren't as excited as you should have been during the experience. 4) The workload associated with transfers is far far more then new character approvals. I don't think anyone will dispute this. It is easier to flatline everyone. 5) The value added of higher level balancing is minimal. 6) Don't do anything that is biologically impossible. Don't stretch the scope of magic with time portals. 7) The server will gain a sincere reputation as an adventuring company server if a core group, which by nature will be staff due to staff generally being here the longest as that's how they gained their staff position, is granted higher levels from the start and enter a different bracket of questing and world influence. I'm not saying this is a terrible thing, the cream rises, and it's the cream that most often contributes... though it's where the perception will be proven. 8) The feeling of mortality of a character will sting a lot of people. I bet that a lot of people will start the depression now if they know their character will be going away due to graphics upgrades. I'm guessing over 90% of the server has felt this sting. Maybe not on 5 year old characters, but probably on multi-year characters that went away with a wipe or by other measures. And they were unhappy the second they heard it was going to happen and their motivation was temporarily destroyed. Some for a couple days, some for a couple weeks. Some just left because they finally realized that this game is temporary... which we all tend to forget or refuse to recognize. But then... you're all still here aren't you? You're all excited with your current characters aren't you? I know I am. So accept a new start in 2007. Put off accepting it for now if that makes today more enjoyable... but don't sacrifice what's fair and best for a community that deep down desperately loves new beginnings.
9) This is presumption at it's best, but based on my limited experience with these things, I am guessing that the lead developers, the very few folks now in the exciting phase of defining a new world, or new age, have their mindset on new beginnings. They know that this is the best stage of a product's life, and it's the most exciting time. And I'm guessing that the reasons for considering the transfer of characters is to keep their best players and best workers motivated to keep the world spinning. This is a true signal of respect for the people making this world spin. The greatest motivation would be to offer them confidence in return that you don't need reward or transfered status and/or time value to keep it spinning. 10) I touched on this already a bit and I don't at all intend to be mean with this statement, but... anyone who feels that the game will not be fun if they have to 'start over' is already burned out and should probably find something else to do, or rekindle their love with the game somehow. Sure it's not easy, but ff you can't love a beginning and find excitement for it... then what excitement is left for you on the world? It's the experience that defines the best of why we're here right? You can't deny that the best experience has a beginning and an end. Transfers.... limited continuation of what once was is by definition stagnation. Anyhow, I hope this is constructive.
-
And yes... that was just a color test on numbers.
-
Heres some random thoughts on the ideas, I'm going to try to list a few positive and negative things.
I am in favor of a full wipe. I like my characters, and I'm very attached to them, I would LOVE to transfer one of them to NwN2, but really I think the feasability of it is going to be the deciding factor.
NwN2 is a new game, and we are going to have a new world, regardless of whether the plot gets placed 100 or 1000 years in the future, or whether we do a 'prequel' type of thing and go BACK in time to a lost era before Blood and recorded history, or whether we start out after a dark age, when all knowledge of previous events is lost. The fact remains that unless they make NwN2 backward compatable by some whim of thier own bringing anything we currently have forward to what we will be moving to is going to be a gigantic pain in the arse.
If we allow people to retain characters theres the rebuild process for the new game. I see 100's of GM hours spent on that.
If we allow people to retain characters do they get to retain an item or two? Would be silly to strip them of their most prized possesions imho, but that leads to a balancing and consistancy issue as well.
If we allow people to retain players, even at a reduced level thats is going to instill resentment in the 'lesser haves' It's a fact. And I don't mean to minimize the role that those who have gone epic or beyond here on Layonara, but the next incarnation will be a new layonara.
If we allow people to retain players it WILL unbalance the game. Those higher level players will be in higher level areas, and, though they will be the front guard on balancing and bugfixing for sure, they are also going to be selling those higher end items they find to lower end players, they will be accumulating coin and resources at an accelerated rate, and it will set the stage for an 'elite' group of players for a good many months. While everyone else is struggling to explore and get thier feet under them, there will be a group of people who will become the aristocracy of the game, by virtue of getting to skip the beginning.
For example, take a level 25 character, say he has to get knocked down to level 12.5 (just to keep the math simple) That level 12.5 character is going to be able to jump right out from the gate and get much further afield than anyone else. By the time those that start at level 1 are at level 7 he'll most likely be nearing level 14, assuming we keep a similar XP scale, by the time the 'regulars' get level 10 he'll be 16. Now, lets go back to the start...
Mr. Level 12.5 starts out, his buddy is level 1. They have a lot of fun playing together, so Mr. 12.5 takes his buddy out with him. Buddy gets a free ride basically though the more challenging beginning stages, has access to goods, items, and money beyond his own ability to attain. Despite whatever rules are in place, thats GOING to happen.
People are going to leave layonara, thats a fact no matter what happens. New people are going to join as well. I think since the GM team is starting now we are going to be ahead of the curve with implementation, and will probably be one of the first NwN2 PW's out there.
Its hard for me to think of anything really positive about keeping ANY existing players, yeah, it sucks for those who have tons of hours into a character thats gotten to a level of prestige in THIS world, but why should that carry over into the NEXT world? I just think it would be far less of a headache for everyone to begin again with a new character, with a new story, a new world, in a new game with new challenges and new opportunities to make themselves great again. Besides, how to you accomodate the all knowing right hand of the god of whatever within the new story line? Or do those that have spiffy titles suddenly lose them? That makes even less sense.
Anyway, I don't envy the choices you guys have to make. If it were me, once the plug were pulled on THIS version of Layonara, that would be the last of it. New game, new world, new character.
Vyris
-
Just going to chime in as one of the players with a character in one of the extremes level wise.
I fully agree with what Chongo stated and see very little good in holding on to the old characters after the transition.
To keep it short and sweet: I love Rev and have had a blast playing her but I can't come up with a concept that would allow moving her into the NWN 2 that I can approve. The only thing that comes even close would be turning her into an NPC.
Everything has its lifespan and Rev has had a good life.
Furthermore by being forced to start from the beginning we old timers get to mingle with the new players which, I believe, will be good for us all.
Full wipe, while maybe allowing the new characters to retain a bit of the glamour of their ancestry, is the only path I see as feasible.
-
Anything short of a total wipe is going to cause hard feelings with someone and that will result in more work for the team when they need to be implementing NWN2 and making the new Layo. The fairness and freshness with a complete wipe is the only way I can see to smooth the transition. I have enjoyed Rawkwin but I am also looking forward to entering the new Layo like I did Hlint for the first time with no clue of what to expect.
-
So, yeah, I'm pretty bias toward one choice so I'm not even going to waste breath being fair and balanced.:)
Top 10 Reasons that ZeroVega wants a Complete Wipe:
[list=1]
- An even playing field for everyone come NwN2
- More old and new player interaction
- No mullagins. (I have only one character that I play consistently, but several people have two or more. It would be unrealistic and silly to try and get all of everyone's characters switched over and if you ask someone to pick one character, that character might not have any friends come NwN2 or may have lost the few PCs that made him/her worth playing. Constant doubt would fill my mind if I played more than one character about whether or not I made the right choice.
- We just don't know how far into the future we'll be going. What is going to happen between now and "then"? The whole world could freeze over and everyone could migrate underground, all the drow could migrate ABOVE ground (not much sunlight any more you know?) the dragons could establish a Draconian Empire... any number of things could happen that would raise the call for a new generation of heroes. Could happen today or it could happen in three months, we just don't know.
- Fun-ness factors. I'm sorry, but I believe that one of the funnerest things about Layonara, is that there's always someplace you haven't been! Exploring all of the areas from level 1 to level 20 has given me some of the best times of my LIFE. I would NOT continue playing Tath, even if I was given the choice to. I wouldn't want to be able to buff up and romp across the whole of several continents without ever taking a single damage point. I want to strugle and fight for my life to get something as mundane as an apple! That's what it's all about.
- Quest involvment: Well, there is this stigma going around that higher level characters control quests. It's partially true (though it's as much the fault of lower levels as it is higher) and if you allow Epics of World Leaders to keep playing that gap will only increase. Plus there will be the whole favoritism thing and then migranes...
- Because I say so.
- Because Chongo says so.
- Because Rev says so.
- Because Vyris says so... wait! Vyris is back?!
-
I would think the hardest thing about shifting characters over would be deciding how to make the rules match. The 3.5 rules are so different that I think I would have made very different decisions in making a cleric with how domains are handled and such. I think the amount work involved in translating the characters would take all of the work away from making Layo 2 cool. From a team work load standpoint I think we want them working on Layo 2 and not on moving characters and resolving rule differences.
-
I like option 4, but the extra can only be that they have a statue of themselves in front of an important building like a temple, library or courthouse, or that the epic characters are NPCized to replace the Waylends, Talons, Garents and Erirbags of the world. Instead of Erag asking for dark essences, it could be a dreaded dark robed guy named albert who smells like onions, or the nefarious coldfinger looking for mummy dust. On that note, you could put people like Rufus in as right hand men to the Black Sun, have Ozy find some dreaded artifact that has him becoming the nxt Bloodstone and laying wast to Voltrex... etc.
Also, when the next verion comes out, please split the beginning city into 3 options... Farmlandsy Hlintesque, Barbarian Outskirts and Big-City dirty slums. Make all Wemics, Orcs, Goblins, Drow, Duergar, brownies, barbarians & rangers etc start off in the barbarian outskirts with their own amneties and such, with the same for the goody goodies and half-breeds in farmboy-land and the rogue, wizards and nefarious CN types have to deal with life in the slums.
In this way, we can avoid the whole "Hlint is a freak town!" aspect, and give each character a chance to have some breathing room and alienation from other races. Though, I would also like to see these 3 initial spawnpoints within safe walking distance of one another, akin to Hlint to Llast to Leillon, or Hlint to Spellguard... etc.
-
Hi Guys! I usally don't express my opiniom but here is a short one.
I am for a total wipe too. *smiles at Chongo and Rawk and a few more* I think it would be fair not only to us players but to the team as well. They have worked hard to provide a great gaming experience for everyone and to spend time Transferring Characters and dealing with issues just seems silly when they can be continuing to build a great world. Some one above mentioned that maybe the epics can be NPC's and I think that would be a great idea. Just my thoughts. Anyway I have a TON of fun regardless of what the decision will be.
-
- As a note to something mentioned earlier--there was no mention of having a wipe and the extras being that some people started with extra levels. Having that kind of thing in place (the majority starting at level 1 except for a special few) completely destroys the whole purpose of a full wipe. Likewise they should not start with extra stats--these are not the characters themselves, they are just people down the line. An inheritance of a title, a story, a responsibility, something of that sort sure, but not anything that gives them a mechanical edge from the start. Roleplay only and in most cases, likely to only even matter to the player in question.
- I agree with the splitting of starting cities.
- I also agree not to stretch the magic of the world to time portals and such... keep it simple.
- I disagree that NPCizing the "epics" should be the extras in question. You can do that anyway...and should. If they're a part of history, then let them be a part of history, regardless of options. This is advertised as a world that players can make a difference in; so much the better if a lot of history includes famous PCs in the future. Regardless of level.
- The so-called extras should be in place to avoid punishing the people who have been loyal...It seems like every other game has a system in place to reward loyalty and effort in players, why give them the short end of the stick, here? In said other places, they're mostly just super powers or something that would be silly for a roleplaying world, but the point remains that there is at least a nod to long-term sticking-around instead of a kick in the shin. :) Example.
In option number one, the full wipe, Joe #2342 can still create a character descended from Bob #2309. Why? Because it doesn't affect things all that much. Not that Bob doesn't matter to his friends or hasn't done things here and there, simply that if he has kids and they have kids and they have kids, there is not really all too much to inherit in the grand scheme of things, except that "my great great great grand-daddy was dragoncalled." Who cares? Who would not approve that? It's flavor for the player and does little one way or the other, go for it.
Anyone could do that EXCEPT anyone with any amount of notoriety. We would approve the descendents of people who have not impacted the world greatly, but not the ones who have... why? They have proven they have the maturity and role playing abilities to handle it, since they reached the status in the first place. They get no material or mechanical benefits from creating a character down the line, and it would be a new character and not merely the same again with the same role. It does not grant them the title of their forefathers, merely makes them a part of the line and gives them an inherited purpose and story. Some big shoes to fill (or not fill), or something.
Anyone can make up an inherited purpose and story, but the ones who have written them in events onto the history of the world can't play on theirs unless specifically given the option.
I think giving them said option offers a richer history and more flavor for the world. Which I am a big fan of.
-
I am for a total wipe as well for all the reasons that have been previously stated. I like the idea of starting off fresh and developing new relationships in game while exploring a new world. I also think that if anyone, not just those who reach a certain status/level, should be able to submit a story or some history about a NWN experience or character which could be used by the team (if they choose) to include in the handbook or create an NPC from.
I too will have fun regardless of whatever decision is finally made. Thanks to the team in advance for all the hard work that will have to go into this transition.
-
4, 8)
-
Although it has been a rather long time since I've been in game, I would vote for 1 or 4 also. The development of the new, old or next era leaves alot of openings.
Epic characters and their 'extras' could be just as 'simple' as a Ruin, Dungeon or Crypt in their family name. Where did all the ones we have traversed in these lands come from anyway?
Just ask the players themselves I'm sure they could come up with something suitable to match their chars. Say maybe an epic written by a bard handed down through generations, the whole story only told by members of the family. Maybe they will come up with a suitable demise for their chars themselves. A prayer created by a priest that is added to their orders repitoire, a battle style created by a fighter of great skill. A smithing technique created by an epic blacksmith of notoriety, whose name only has to be put into a CNR recipe or two.
Anyways just a couple of thoughts.
*Berg walks down a well worn path, holding his small sons hand* "And that over there," *he points at a small mountain in the distance* "and that mountain over there is the last resting place of a mighty dwarven adventurer, they say it is the smallest mountain in the range because a great explosion occured deep inside." *his sons eyes widen in wonder* "You see he caved in the mountain to save his friends from a terrible monster they had found deep within it...."
-
Acacea - 7/8/2006 3:59 PM
- As a note to something mentioned earlier--there was no mention of having a wipe and the extras being that some people started with extra levels. Having that kind of thing in place (the majority starting at level 1 except for a special few) completely destroys the whole purpose of a full wipe. Likewise they should not start with extra stats--these are not the characters themselves, they are just people down the line. An inheritance of a title, a story, a responsibility, something of that sort sure, but not anything that gives them a mechanical edge from the start. Roleplay only and in most cases, likely to only even matter to the player in question.
What was proposed I believe was that characters above level 'X' might possibly be allowed to recreate thier characters, depending on the advancement of the timeline and whether it was feasable for a character to still be alive due to race and age etc. This would involve creating a character and having a DM assign XP to the point that releveling is allowed.
If I read it correctly this would also happen on a sliding scale, with those highest level winding up being the highest level rebuilds, and those at the cusp of what was allowed getting a minimal rebuild, anyone below level 'X' would have to start over.
My issue with this, to use my friend Rhizome as an example... if Rhizome were to suddenly be say... level 18, instead of whatever ungodly level he is now, he would be less 'Rhiz' and more a bad parody. Pick any character of epic levels, if you KNOW them IG I doubt you can imagine them at half power and still think of them the same.
Plus, as I stated, what happens to thier titles, and how do you deal with THOSE? Not to mention a LOT of the people who are epic level are also GM's. This isn't a coincidence, the people that are epic have contributed to the story of Layonara with thier game play, and that is recognised often as a big plus when they applied to be GM's, as is entirely as it should be. Those that contribute the most continue to contribute when given another avenue for contribution.
All that being said, if a big chunk of GM characters are the ones converted over and allowed to start at a higher level there will definately be calls of favoritism and resentment, however unfair those comments may be, my experience with human nature has taught me that those who are not given what they deem to be a 'fair shake' will undoubtable resent those who are given more. Regardless of the merits of the actions that are the cause of the reward.
To use myself as an example, Berdin is my favorite character, hands down. I love to play him, but he's only level 14. I've invested a lot of time and thought in Berdin's RP, the friendship he has with others, the skills and spells he's developed to stay within the Dogma of Vorax, his animosity toward that goat-herding, drow worshipping son of a maggot Daren, his ambitions within the church of Vorax, getting his enchanting and alchemy skills up to high levels, all that. Say level 14 were the cut-off, and I were offered a chance to make Berdin in the new version, but I could only make him level 5... well, thats kindof a slap in the face.
I'd rather have a Berdin statue out front of a temple of Vorax somewhere, and be able to write into the history books that at the end of his long and valient life he was made cannon of Mistone or something and leave it at that, then start anew.
Vyris
-
I would like to have a complete wipe (option 1). Then if players who have characters that attain world leader status (or some high level) prior to the switch-over would like their nwn 2 character to obtain"something extra" from their previous character (by virtue of family or some other +well developed+ connection, as in option 4), they would have to complete a cdq whose difficulty level would be commensurate with whatever they sought to claim.
-
Vyris, I am completely against people being started at different levels and I am sorry that I didn't make it clear that I was talking about option four, which is a complete and total character wipe with all new characters starting at the same level.
I was pointing out that the "extras" should therefore NOT be of mechanical benefit.
Yllyrryon: In my opinion that is still option four, as they still have the influence attached to the family. It should not come into play until they have worked a bit on it, but the extra is that it is available and worked into the character from the start, if you ask me. Since you assigned that to #1, I would just mention that it only reinforces how small of a thing that really is at the start--a matter of history and flavor.
-
Acacea - 7/8/2006 5:49 PM
Vyris, I am completely against people being started at different levels and I am sorry that I didn't make it clear that I was talking about option four, which is a complete and total character wipe with all new characters starting at the same level.
I was pointing out that the "extras" should therefore NOT be of mechanical benefit.
Ahh. heh I misunderstood the thrust of your agruement, so, yeah, I think I pretty much agree with whatever Acacea said.
Vyris
-
Berdin needs to send Bjornigar's fat butt a letter saying when he's ready to hunt giants. Found us a pair of Voraxian mining brothers and a Ketibjorn who need a good dwarven rampage to get the blood pumping. I have but a simple goal really, just one... KILL GRANNOCH!!! *laughs maniacally*
-
lonnarin - 7/8/2006 7:02 PM
Berdin needs to send Bjornigar's fat butt a letter saying when he's ready to hunt giants. Found us a pair of Voraxian mining brothers and a Ketibjorn who need a good dwarven rampage to get the blood pumping. I have but a simple goal really, just one... KILL GRANNOCH!!! *laughs maniacally*
In order to not hi-jack this thread I will PM you with plans for such a night out!
ROAR!!!
Vyris
-
DMOE - 7/8/2006 6:44 AM This may be a daft question but what is the rush to transfer to NWN2?
If Layo waited until the expansion packs come out that do allow 20+ characters then there would be no need for any decisson. I mean Layo isn't looking at tranfering to NWN2 till around four months after it's released anyway by which point there will most likely be at least one expansion out.
Those that wished to create new characters could and those with time invested in exisiting characters could transfer them.
Also it would allow the whole team more time to play with and poke at NWN2 before it went 'live' on Layo so to speak as well as allowing more time for money to be raised to sort out the servers to run NWN2....Would give Obsidian chance to iron out the kinks too.
hmm.. *smiles* I definately agree with this!
and with what Minerva said. I'm pinching pennies as it is, it would be a decent amount of time before I could afford to buy a game with my budget, let alone the PC to power it.
And do we know anything about its capabilities with Mac and Linux yet? I for one am all for Layo one lasting a bit longer- before Layo2 and NwN2 come along.
-
1 and 4 would be the best choices. If your character had enough impact, then you can trace your new characters background to the old one.
Here's another problem with transfering a character...do you wipe any or all DT's? (Didn't see that in any other thread). If your character is converted, how would you do the DT's? Loose all or some or none of them? Those with 9 would want to loose however many they could, yet those with few to none would see loosing any as unfair.
As was stated by others though, I'm quite happy with NWN 1 and Layo (budget won't allow an upgrade in the near future anyway).
Besides, imagine how much more RP'ing is going to happen if 4 is the choice...I know I would like for my new character to trace their family history back to my original character; "I am here in honor of 'insert character name here', and will follow in thier footsteps (or in some cases, clear their name)."
-
I like option 4.
-
Some good points are being raised people, thanks. Keep on talking :)
-
Option 4 for me.
Even though it pains me to abandon my characters I prefer to start with everyone at lvl 1. This ensures that I find people to adventure with and a new history/character development i initiated. Having a lvl 20 Kobal stand in Hlint giving advice to the newcomers and from time to time to go out alone on a trip is not something I would be looking forward to. Instead I would love to see Kobal as an NPC in the halls of the Crescent Moon & Shield beneath Mount Norand. Perhaps my new character will be his grandson or even further off. It would preserve some of the history and background of Kobal and the clans, which was written down and can be found in the libraries of the clans.
I am a fan of spawning in places that make sense. Elves in an elven settlement, dwarves beneath Norand of course :), humans in Hlint, halflings in gryphon nest and drow in a stinking duergar dungeon where they are surrounded and most likly killed by illithids.
Let us start anew, but preserve the good things that make Layonara what it is.
-
Harlas Ravelkione - 7/9/2006 10:13 AM Let us start anew, but preserve the good things that make Layonara what it is.
This pretty much summarizes my view of Layonara in the future.
-
I haven't been here all that long, but I think I can speak for other "short-timers" when I say that I've gotten pretty attached to my character.
However (and this is where some of those singing my praises probably stop to throw stones) I favor option #1.
So many great points have been raised as to why this would be the most fair and equitable option that I won't rehash them in my post, but if you've read down this far you get the idea.
Some would leave in a fit of sadness because of the loss of a character that they may have 2+ years invested in. I'd be willing to bet that those would also be the ones to come back once the shock wore off (after all, if they've been playing THAT long, they would have to be pretty loyal in the first place).
I loathe the idea of losing Creighton...although I don't have the time invested that some do, I still have developed a real bond with the character, and with other characters through him. Still...I have no doubt that those players I spend most of my time with will more than likely be the same ones my characters wind up being friends with in Layo 2 (plus, there's the opportunity to make new friends; I might actually end up being friends with someone whose name I now only see listed as playing on the East Server...imagine that!).
As far as having a statue or monument or tavern or a new line of tennis shoes named after certain characters...I think that's great. It would add continuity and a sense of nostalgia to the game for those who've been on Layo 1. As far as being a descendant of your original Layo character...I have no issue with that either...so long as it gives no advantage that any schmoe getting a character approved would not have. This game and those that make it possible have impressed me with their fairness and efforts to keep things balanced, and as much as I've tried to convince myself otherwise, option #1 seems the only true way to do that.
Besides, in the end, it's about the players...I, like many of you, have played D&D on the top of a table for many years...characters come and characters go...you may keep the Character Record Sheet, and every once in a blue moon you may blow the dust off of it and take them out for a spin, but the bottom line is that time moves on and you keep playing with a bunch of people that all enjoy having a good time together.
-
Voting for Option 1.
I absolutely love my character. However, I think to remove all things that one might want to lump into acts of showing favoritism, the clean wipe is the most secure. (Besides that she is human. Depending on how long the current dark ages go for she may not be able to out-live the time period, heh :P)
The concept of an NPC role for certain characters I personally find appealing and I feel the same about links to characters of old (option 4). Yet, the process by which it is determined what characters get such honors can always (and likely will) be called into question.
I also believe that all should have the option of being part of a certian character's history. Whether they are a relative several generations later or a current partner, provided they have the permission of the origenal character these roleplaying options should be permissable. (Just opinion)
Certain characters (mine included) have already left marks on the world and such events have been noted already. Either through additions to timelines or the handbook or elsewhere, these PC's have been documented well. If anything were to be carried over to NWN2 it should be that history not the character itself. With the 20+ limitation, this just makes more sense to me than deleveled characters.
-
I like option 1.
Question: when you say extras, how about if the "extras" for players isn't with thier characters? Instead, maybe something in the game design itself. Like names of places. I am going to the Plenarius mountians, want to come? We can hunt for Rhizomes. Or hey barkeep, give me one enzo and a plate of venison. Well, maybe not that exactly, but you get my point?
Either way I will still support Layonara.
-
I think the extras should be up to said Epic/World Leader characters to decide and the GMs to approve. Still, it has to fit in with RPed events. Can you immagine "The Coldfinger Inn"? I couldn't. Coldfinger Mannor perhaps, where the ghost of the long dead Necromancer, Rufus Coldfinger still haunts the halls. Or how about "Varka's Magical Herb and Tea Shoppe"? No... no, that wouldn't work. But something you know... dwarfy like. Needs to fit and I think it should be up to the players of the characters to submit them for approval if they want them in.
-
I agree with that yes, but am not sure if that's really directly related... What I don't understand is that people are speaking of the "extras" right now as simply what will be done with future-dead characters incorporated into history. In my opinion, this should happen regardless--the events occurred; if people want a real-feeling world with a unique history with flavor, then pieces of its past should be included. That just seems like a given to me, regardless of wipe or timelines or anything. There would/should be remnants.
Past makes the present and all that, so I'd hope that effort would be made on all parts to help craft that future, instead of considering it an "extra special" feature that the history of the world is actually in place.
The extras are not, in my opinion, how the old characters are dealt with (like having a dungeon named after them or whatever), but instead how the NEW characters created by the same players, would be handled.
Full Wipe With Extras
Everyone will start a new character at lvl 1, however, those who left a mark on the world (i.e. successfully completed their Epic/WLDQ, or above a certain level) get something extra. Examples could be some kind of descent from the previous character (if the NWN2 campaign is in the future), note that this does not mean special powers or anything, just some added flavor.
(And Varka needs to be a dwarven summon like in his WL request! Too cool :P)
-
Option four, but with a twist: any player can have a character that is a decendent of one of their current characters, provided there are no non-racial benifits or pelalties applied to the new character, who may or may not know his/her family's past generations.
-
Having watched this thread develop and seen some excellent points raised I do have to say I am in agreement that option 4 sounds best BUT I still don't see what the great rush is for Layo to do NWN2.
Ok, we've only had two posts from people saying they would have trouble upgrading their systems in time for Layo's planned switch but I am sure there are more. I'd hate to lose Minerva as a DM due to this or good RP'ers such as Lalaith simply due to finacial reasons. I know for us it will involve replacement Graphics cards as well as two copies of the game and expansions...Might not sound alot but when every penny counts....
So yeah, option 4 but with a thought to who we may lose not because they don't like the option but simply because money doesn't grow on trees!
-
Too many replies for me to read so I'll just state my mind...
Option 4 but I think it will require a lot of work on those that approve characters as "characters that made their mark" is very ambiguous. Let's take Matilda (my favorite example because I love eight-bit's characters) - she's not a world leader but I know there are a lot of characters that would follow them to hell and back. Could eight-bit play Matilda's (and Freldo's :) ) decendant?
As for my part, I'll have to see what they did to the bard in NWN2, but I'd like to play another one, with less caffine and a smaller corn fixation.
And what DMOE said... which I think is being largely ignored.
A new computer capable of running NWN2 isn't gonna be cheap - the system requirements for it, according to the guy preseting the game at E3 isn't ridiculously high, but if you want great quality stuff, you're gonna have to shell out some big bucks. I think a lot of us aren't up to shelling out a lot of money on a new PC just because of a game.
On that note, about the switch being currently scheduled in January. It's a good time frame but I wonder if a volunteer effort of this magnitude, no matter how dedicated the coders are, can rebuild a significant part of the world in just 5 months.
-
I don't think it's being ignored, really. There is no absolute, set date for this, just an "it's going to be out and we're probably going to do it by x date that is a long ways into the future, and thus we need to know how to handle it." In fact, I don't think we can even know for certain that rebuilding Layo on NWN2 is even feasible until the tools are in the hands of the people developing it.
I'm certainly not rolling in it and don't know at all when this would happen, or if it would happen at all for even just myself, let alone for the whole server. I just interpreted the question as, "assuming all this goes well and we make the transition successfully, what are everyone's thoughts on how to handle the characters?" :)
Preparation, and all that. I'd still like to have some idea of where we are ideally ending up, even if for some reason it doesn't happen quickly or ever.
-
Perhaps we will loose some players due to the hardware requirements of NWN2, at least for a time until they find a pot of gold or something.
But if we choose not to upgrade to NWN2 I think we will loose more players. If Layo stays NWN1 a lot of people will start migrating I think. Gameplay is more important than eyecandy - but don't underestimate the power of eyecandy.
-
Just to point out...
Most people probably will not need a major upgrade to run NWN2 unless they want to experience it in all its visual glory. At a minimum, it requires a video card capable of handling Shader Model 2.0. Shader Model 3.0 is needed for all the really cool looking stuff, or so that's the report. I don't think the requirements have really been officially released yet, so it's all speculative at this point anyway.
I also want to give an example of something.
I played NWN on a 400MHz Pentum II with 384MB of RAM from the OC all the way through HotU, which states a minimum requirement of an 800MHz Pentium III, if I recall. While I will admit freely that I wasn't playing with the highest possible visual settings, the one thing that did keep the game playable for me was the fact that I had invested in a video card upgrade. So I guess my point is that the hardware needs may not be as bad as one might think at the moment.
But the discussion of hardware requirements kind of gets off topic a bit.
The point of this thread was to illustrate the thought process we're going through in trying to figure out how best to handle the transition to NWN2. This post assumes that the transition will happen, though even now, we cannot say with any great certainty wheter or not we will convert Layonara to NWN2. There's no great "rush", but at the same time, we want to be prepared in case we do. Right now, there's a lot of if's associated with a transition to NWN2. Nothing at this point is pre-ordained. But to answer the general question of "why bother?" the answer is that NWN2, if it proves to be viable for our PW, should help us do some things that are currently impossible or a significantly difficult effort under NWN1...things that I think a lot of you would like to see. But at this point, the question of "if" (and thereby "when") remains up in the air.
So to try to steer this back onto topic, keep in mind Ed posted this to give you an idea of some of the things we consider for the transition to NWN2. It wasn't really intended as a "vote" as such nor do we really need to get into a debate about the finer points at this time, though surely your input is welcomed. Keep in mind also that these are not the only 4 options that would be considered, only the most prevalent at this time.
Feel free to make other reasonable suggestions (as other people have done) regarding the transition.
-
I am somewhat hesitant to enter into this discussion, as I am, compared to many of the players here, still a newcomer to this world, and have no high-level characters that will suffer from a wipe.
That aside... the only reasonable options are a full wipe, or to reset all characters back to level 1. Either case poses a logical (story) issue:
With a full wipe, what happened to the old characters? There are ways around this, such as setting the time to far enough in the future that the old PCs would have all died off, but does that fit the story plans? Alternatively, the disappearance of the Dragoncalled could be incorporated into the plot as either backstory to the new campaign or a mystery to be solved within it.
Resetting to level 1 begs the question of why the characters' knowledge, skills, and abilities have gone away. While it's possible to have some catacylsmic event cause amnesia or some illness that makes the heros start over, it seems contrived, and starting over with the same character is not too much different from starting with a new character, except that they have a more detailed past -- which is in itself both a blessing and a curse; in any case, the charatcer could develop completely differently than before based on new choices. Again, the loss of levels, abilities, et al., would be built into the campaign as backstory or a mystery to be solved.
As far as "extras" and whatnot... anything the preserves continuity should be allowed, as long as it doesn't cause any significant burden on the dev team or unfair advantages or disadvantages for players. Epic (ok... "World Leader") characters have gotten to that position by doing epic things -- those should be reflected in the world in some fashion, even if it is only a statue or a story. But it shouldn't be limited to just epics -- any person or group that has done something that would leave a lasting mark on the world should be able to submit an idea to the team that reflects that mark. Maybe a trade association transcends the lives of its founders, and continues on as an NPC organization in the world. A town could rename itself or build a statue to honor a hero that saved it. Whatever it is, the only real questions are 1) is it reasonable for such an impact to still be felt "X" years down the road, and 2) is the requested impact reasonable to implement without affecting any planned plot lines or considerable development effort.
As for the players... those who have the time and energy (i.e., all of you insomniacs on at all hours of the day and night) will very likely be the leading characters in the new version, just from the ability to spend more time with their characters. This means it will be somewhat the same group as exists today -- some won't make the switch (or have less time now than they did then) and there'll be new blood from those who have joined later in the server's lifetime. Those who are timezone-limited will likely be playing with much the same players as before, even if the characters are different. Heck, groups could form in advance and plan out their characters if they want to stay together as a group.
On a final note, though, as much as I'm lookin g forward to NWN2 and Layonara 3, it looks like I won't have the time to play much, if at all, once 2007 hits. My wife and I are expecting our second AND THIRD children on or about Feb. 1 (taking into account that twins usually come at 37-38 weeks). Any "free time", if I ever get any, will likely be spent sleeping. :)
-
I'd like to re-emphasize the point that's been made several times before - why hurry? Give the game designers (and beta-testers, of course) all the time they want to iron out the starting version of Layo2, while the old version's still running. We're not going to lose that many people, given the sheer richness of experience offered by Layo, to the new flashy interface... and better to have solid code/design under our feet than risk initial scrambled bugfixes or stability problems. Layo's quite content where it is, so a rush-out is hardly necessary.
-
It looks like most people here want #4, with some story background granted to World leaders or Epics? What makes Layo unique to me is the helpfulness of the players here, the creativity of the gms, and hard work the team members put into it. That's not going to change is it? (rhetorical question I hope the answer better be a resounding NO) Wipe and start over is my 2 pence.
-
I think number 4 is the best option as well, but I think there must be a tie to the past because of all the hard work and amazing characters who exist now. I like NPC options, but I also like some sort of glamour from the past character's deeds.
-
I like Option 3. I've played one character in 17 months here. I'd hate to lose all that history and start all over. Plus if I had to create a new character, he'd be almost identical to Klaug. He's the character I want to play and enjoy playing. I wouldn't mind starting over at level 1, I just don't want to lose the character. I'm sure that a reason could be imagined why everyone is level 1 again.
Let me throw another wrinkle in: If characters are allowed to transfer, would all of their lost soul strands transfer too? Seems unfair if a character with 9 is suddenly reset to 0.
This will not be an easy choice and I don't envy L. Whatever choice he makes there will be rumblings.
-
I've been watching this thread with interest, of course, as I primarily play one character here (Xiao Lin), and have been playing him for years now. I have some ideas on the subject, and some thoughts to share. First off, as many of you know, I stopped playing on Layo for about a year or so. My hiatus coincided with the start of V2, by coincidence only. My return to the server was sort of like coming to a whole new server, since so many changes had been made.
Why do I mention this? Because when I came back with a high level character, there were many areas of the west server that I had no need to go to, so I effectively missed out on many changes. I finally did decide to explore many of these areas one day, but it was rather tedious, because nothing presented a challenge. This is what I feel would happen with NWN2 and a new Layo if we tried to start it with our old characters of various levels. I feel it would be best not just for the server, but for the player base, to let everyone discover the new lands from the ground up, struggling like everyone else just to survive a night outside the town gates.
I do, however, have one idea that has not been presented here. Perhaps the new storyline could be written in a way that all the Dragoncalled are taken to an alternate plane or something at some point in time after Layo V2 ends. The heroes would be 'frozen', in some sense of the word. These characters would not be available to anyone at Layo V3 rollout time, but the plotline could be written so a major world event could 'free' this powerful group later on, perhaps when the world needed them most.
The nice thing about this would be that the event can be put off until such time that Leanthar and the GM team feels it would not unbalance the player base. Say, when the first set of new characters reaches lvl 20. Granted, this could take a long time, but how cool would it be to see the old heroes make their return after such a long absence? By then, the expansions would surely be out giving access to epic levels.
Even if it takes a year or two to reach this point in the new version, I think many players would be happy to know that their favorite characters might get the chance to live again. Just a thought, but I'd be happy if something like this was put into place. I'd get to play a new character for a long time, but wouldn't necessarily have to say goodbye to Xiao forever.
-
I believe that a total wipe is necessary. Just trust me on that one. Trust me. Word. However, to appeal to the people who want to continue with their current characters, the option of playing a decendent, however direct or indirect based upon the new timeline, should be allowed. I wouldn't mind Tilda having a daughter between the transition.
EDIT - However, with the idea of children, you will basically have the same character with a different name, all of the former experiences, and none of the levels or abilities the former had. For example...
Something obscure happens. Something big. Something a low level has no right to understand, yet...
"Mother told me of this once; it's a (metagaming blah blah blah). To fix it we need to find the (metagaming blah blah blah), and place it in the Throne of (blah blah Metagame, metagame)."
But, hey, we're all mature, good RPers. Even if some of us owe me fifteen bucks *shakes fist at ZV*, I think we can manage a full wipe. Some of us are even excited about it.
The only trouble with a full wipe, is of course, people who powerlevel expecting it will give them some sort of standing as a character, other than simply being tough and hard to gank.
I'm all over the place here. Just glass the server vault. We'll all get by just fine.
Anyway, I got a new character app. all ready written.
-
Har! Talk about constructive thinking. :) I like very much what you presented Chrys.
Let me put another twist on the Idea. Assume that some heroes will indeed get sent to another plane or frozen in stasis by whatever plot idea fits. They are Legend to return to the world once need is dire. First I would like that those that wish to have this opportunity write up their characters Lives like the CD threads. Something compressed with their deeds etc. (No WLDQs need to be run or anything of that timeconsuming matter) but the players have to take a bit of time to "save" their characters by writing them into the Historybooks.
In V3 at a certain point these Characters can be freed. But instead of letting a horde of heroes loose on Layonara we could make a queast per Character to be freed. So you could gather your mates and say. Lets go free Xiao from the stasis bubble. So these WorldLeaders or Epic Heroes would trickle back into the world and not go BAM! Here we all Are! Lets rock! :p
Also these Quests could be unique quests that can get started by NPC interaction at lvl 20 or so and would not necessarily need GM attendance. Of course if GMs run these "return to the plane" quests or whatever we could call them would be much the sweeter.
So I vote for everyone starting at LVL1 with that option for those that write their stories into the History of Layonara to be able to one day return.
-
I vote we keep all the current players in little white and red balls that we hurl forth when needed.
[big]"Reventage!!!!... I CHOOSE YOU!!!"[/big]
but seriously...
A wipe is the way to go.... I am intreagued by the Frozen idea as well. (but im more than biast having a level 25 character that I have played since October 2003.
-
Plenarius Ashaley (8/8), cost 8
A more serious reply and thoughts from both personal and developer levels will come.
-
Dorganath - 7/10/2006 8:09 AM Just to point out...
Most people probably will not need a major upgrade to run NWN2 unless they want to experience it in all its visual glory.
Just to run with this little bit, I checked the requirements...My video card won't support it...and...my wife said I can't have a new one unless this one letterally blows up. Anyway, I figure we all have a while before actually fretting over this. The world has to be either rebuilt or transfered to NWN2 and then the scripting begins...testing...more scripting...more testing. As far as the "extras" go that I've been reading in this thread, It should only be the GM's choice (Unless you are a world leader, you usually never choose what's named after your character). We've got time folks. Don't get all jumpy. Why not, just for a short time, once Layo 2 is up, let us take our old characters through it for a couple of days (provided our levels allow)? That way, we get the enjoyment of having one last romp with our fav. character, and the Layo team can see how all the spawns and everything works with our level characters (kinda like a massive final beta test)....just a thought...I can just see the CHAOS now!
-
Sounds like someone needs to figure out how to make a video card blow up. Maybe try wedging a little piece of paper in the cooling fan on the video card. Heh Heh *evil grin*
-
hehe
-
Nook - 7/10/2006 10:24 PM
Why not, just for a short time, once Layo 2 is up, let us take our old characters through it for a couple of days (provided our levels allow)? That way, we get the enjoyment of having one last romp with our fav. character, and the Layo team can see how all the spawns and everything works with our level characters (kinda like a massive final beta test)....just a thought...I can just see the CHAOS now!
Why not? Rule set changes, unfortunately. The 3.5 ruleset used in NWN2 would require serious rebuilds of many classes, much more effort than would be worth it for just a few days. Unless, of course, Obsidian (or a third party) comes up with a nifty charatcer conversion tool -- and from public comments to date, I'm pretty sure Obsidian won't be providing such a tool, as it doesn't make sense for the new OC, which should start with a level 1 character. Even then, it's a lot of effort for a small payoff.
-
It's not like the old characters would simply be stored there, conveniently waiting for us to tromp around the first time and then never again. Even if we didn't really need a wipe for this (we do! ;) ), all of the effort mentioned throughout the thread would still have to be put in to do the transfer...except in this suggestion, it's not even for any long term playing--just a few days. Way too much effort (staff-side) for no gain except a very short lark.
-
To add to my idea about 'freezing' the heroes from V2, another advantage would be that when the time came for the heroes to be released, the team would only have to convert characters on a case-by-case basis. I also like the idea of there being a CDQ or some such to get said character back.
I feel by the time this actually happened, along with the CDQ, only those players who had become SERIOUSLY attached to their old characters would bother, since most people will have grown to love their new characters by then. If there was some considerable effort required on the part of the player to get the old character back, it would weed out a lot of people, and drastically reduce the workload on the GM team to convertany old characters over.
PS - Even if the GM team decides not to do this, could you tell us you're going to, anyway?It will be kind of like telling a child the family dog has gone to live on a beautiful farm, where they can run and play all day long. Later, when we are mature enough to handle it, and have grown to love our new dog, you can tell us the truth. :(
-
I just couldn't pass this up... (thank orth for opening this can of worms...)
Cole Norseman
Attack: 8
Defense: 2
Cost: 5
Special: If a halfling is played as an ally, add 2 to his defense. If the halfling is Jennara Creekskipper, add 2 to defense and 1 to attack. If the halfling is Acacea Thistletongue, add 3 to defense. If Jennara and Acacea are present as allies, the bonuses stack. If Freldo Jabutica is played as either an ally or an enemy, tap both Cole and Freldo for one turn as Freldo records one of Cole's adventures.
-
Chrys Ellis - 7/11/2006 8:23 AM
I feel by the time this actually happened, along with the CDQ, only those players who had become SERIOUSLY attached to their old characters would bother, since most people will have grown to love their new characters by then. If there was some considerable effort required on the part of the player to get the old character back, it would weed out a lot of people, and drastically reduce the workload on the GM team to convert any old characters over.
Yep. I honestly wouldn't expect anyone to pull back an old character since with your idea they'd already have another level 20 character that they were now attached to.
I would be wary though, that the folks who would turn to bring back their old characters would do this out of boredom, as this would inherently be true if they were so bored with their new fully vested character that they will have been playing for quite some time.
It's a neat idea, probably the neatest I've seen yet that involves immortality for certain individuals. But it still probably rattles the cage on the community and natural flow of progression.
People who have impact, people that were a part of the major history of the world, they should become apparent in the major history of the world. Areas and literature. We go out to do great things on this world to make an impact. This is at an ideal of gameplay. I have never found the ideal of gameplay to maintain a high level character. But we all still feel that sting when our investment fades away. So take it at it's ideal. Areas and literature... you did your great deeds, people will now remember your name for the ages.
-
Ok, ok...my fault Faldred and Acacea, wasn't thinking when I did that last post. I forgot 'bout the conversion times for the characters (actually, I completely forgot they had to be converted when I wrote it.) He-he-he. DDDUUUUUHHHH!
Still, if it WAS possible to do it in a effortlessly short amount of time...it would be fun.
:)
-
In an easier-to-read format:
I agree with a wipe. A total wipe. Let nothing remain. Allow for characters to be descendents of previous PCs. Any special freebies or bonuses to long term players and PCs will cause problems. Something all around, where everyone is given equal treatment (Like a free level 1 character of their choosing. ;) ) will be best.
-
Option 4 all the way.
As to the Freezing idea... Eh. Maybe have a few long-lost heroes resurrected as NPCs for certain Plot Quests, but I think anything else would be a bit unbalanced. Admittedly, I may be changing my tune if Pyyran manages to make Epic, but I'll let this rest as my official statement.
Hardware Requirements. I get the feeling that NWN2 will be just a smidgen less graphics-intense than, for example, Doom 3. Now, Doom 3 runs pretty well on my machine, with the singular issue that I get four frames per second.
I have to say I agree with the sentiment, "What's the rush?"
-
Stephen_Zuckerman - 7/12/2006 10:32 PM
Hardware Requirements. I get the feeling that NWN2 will be just a smidgen less graphics-intense than, for example, Doom 3. Now, Doom 3 runs pretty well on my machine, with the singular issue that I get four frames per second.
Wow... I've never heard of anyone playing "Doom" as a turn-based strategy game before... 8)
-
I would relish the chance to play with some of the long time layo people, I would love to be able to go on many more level appropriate quests, I love starting new characters anyway, I say a complete wipe would be great
-
Faldred - 7/13/2006 7:36 AM
Stephen_Zuckerman - 7/12/2006 10:32 PM
Hardware Requirements. I get the feeling that NWN2 will be just a smidgen less graphics-intense than, for example, Doom 3. Now, Doom 3 runs pretty well on my machine, with the singular issue that I get four frames per second.
Wow... I've never heard of anyone playing "Doom" as a turn-based strategy game before... 8)
Have you seen the demos for NWN2? They're insane...
-
Insane, perhaps, if you haven't been playing many more recent games.
I will vote for option one.
The freezing thing sounds very intriguing, maybe as a plot tool for something interesting down the line.
A large portion of the NWN community seems to be very... I guess... frugal. While my system can handle the NWN2 specs I tend to be more concerned with content and the possible sudden drop in individuality/variety. That's not to say it can't be fun. We all know what a great group of GMs Layo has and for many of us its the story and interaction that truly drives us.
When or if it happens.. it happens.
-
I'm in favor of a full wipe, but also allowing posible descendants from current PCs. I already have a story for a new character related to Jet, his grand-nephew or something.... but it wouldn't be that important in his story. Just a little something to acknowledge that the past events of Layonara happened. I love playing Jet, but I also would love to start over again in a brand new world to explore. That would be far cooler than to continue the same ol' routine that I follow now :)
Although it would be strange with no Ozy around....
-
I'd vote for option four, basically I feel that everyone should start out at level one again, its fairer for everyone and will stop players feeling that some people are 'favoured' more than others. On the other hand it also allows those characters have been around for a long time and have really been a major part of the Layonara Mythos to continue to cast their shadows over what is really a developing world. Similar to RL really, all cultures have myths and legends of former hero's and characters and many do claim descent from such. Perhaps not in todays world but definately in the time period that Layo is set.
So option 4 for me :)
Oh just as a note...I should be back soon RL problems cleared up now but after I got my spanking new PC discovered that I'd lost my orginal NWN disc, but hopefully Amazon will have it in my letterbox before the weekend. C'ya all soon
-
*smiles and waves* Hiya Steve!!!
-
*grins* Hiya Leanthar...It'll be so good to be back :)
-
WIPE AWAY.
-
1 - Complete Wipe
2 - Next "age" - 1000 years or so after NWN1 version
3 - All characters allowed to play decendents of their or another's prev. characters except WLDQ PCs
4 - To play decendents of WLDQ will require a special layer to bio of character submission
5 - #4 so that no character will start off with "exceptional status" via name
6 - WLDQ elves like Rev and Ozy and long-lived dwarves (Kobal) get to be NPCS if they live past NWN1
7 - Cities/towns/trees/etc... in name of WLDQ characters where appropriate
-
**glances up at Shadowblade's post** I'm down with that.
-
Layonara is a wonderful invention. I'm sure all of you can pretty well agree with that. The characters you have developed have blossomed and come quite far. Remember all the fun you had, though, in developing them? The emotions you ran them through, the mindsets you gave them? Remember how, at level eight, your character first began to learn a craft, first felled a group of giants, first travelled into the dungeon in the hills, etc? Good. You shouldn't forget about that. Those were some good times.
Why let that character's memory die off? Those epic characters, or those characters who have influenced the world around them greatly with outrageous acts of heroism or intellectualism will be remembered, even if the campaign begins five hundred or six hundred years into the future. Bloodstone might be a vague memory of the past, as is so often the case in the ways of humans, or perhaps the idea of such a terrible power becoming true is very evident in the minds of everyone these days. Whether or not Bloodstone is still almighty and wonderful, the fact remains that the epic characters who fought him will still probably be remembered for all those daring feats they performed.
A group of settlements in western Dregar have banded together under a charter of rights and laws known as "The Words of Reventage". A college has been opened four miles out of Hlint, known as "The Royal Llewellyn (Or whatever Ozy's last name is :P) Institution for the Musically Inclined". There is a pie that all halflings seem to learn to make for one reason or another, known as "Triba Gues Pumpkin Blueberry Jamboree Deep Dish Wonderpie". The bows of the Va'lashes are revered artifacts on magical display deep in the woods, in the middle of an unbelievably prosperous elven community, made that way because of the wisdom of the elven couple.
Their descendents may not be granted any special powers, but surely they are at least partly honoured, or mayhaps pitied for the giant roles with which they are expected to live up to. Perhaps there have been other descendants before them, and indeed, there likely are. These descendents have either lived up to the name and made a name for themselves, or they came short. Will the same happen for your characters?
This is just a suggestion. It is pretty much in line with everything Acacea has said thus far.
Advantages
- Everybody starts at level 1. Nice and fair, there are no special abilities, no wondrous anything.
- The people who have put so much into Layonara are able to brag about their old characters some more while RPing whatever other character they are (The apprentice of the great granddaughter of Ozy, perhaps) and thus have the fun of developing a new character while never forgetting about the old character. "As my ancestor Kobal said, Never trust a beardless dwarf."
- Everybody wins, I think, except for the few people who will want genuine physical reimbursement for all the work they put into their characters, before realizing that this is, in fact, a role-playing server. Your reward should be extra role-play benefits. :)
- Layonara continues to flourish, expand, and become even more wonderous. Huzzah!
Disadvantages
- Anyone? :)
-
I'd have to say I like option 1. The reason for this is that having any characters starting, potentially, well ahead of others creates an immediate status to that character. This may be wanted or unwanted. The issue I see is that these upper level characters could immediately, or nearly immediately start flooding the market with items, acquiring wealth beyond that of other characters abilities and thus acquire prime real estate and such which could bring on much frustration to many people. I know this may sound a bit selfish, but I already have a very strong tailor in Layonara and I would hate to lose all the many hours invested to get where he is, but should that happen, so be it. As long as it is fair with everyone else.
I also think that it could potentially create better relationships by starting out as equals and not have immediate "leaders" based on sheer power that comes inherent with levels.
Regardless of what happens, I do look forward to being a part of the community.
**After reading the last several posts, I have to agree with all of the comments. The ideas of implementing monuments, buildings, something after the world leaders would be awesome. And they do well deserve that.
-
the whole future idea sounds good, because we can speed up the "dark ages".
maybe we could put in a bit of history inbetween, have a new arch-villain, make a piece of the story that couldn't be played for practical reasons.
-
Shadowblade225 - 7/21/2006 8:57 AM
1 - Complete Wipe
2 - Next "age" - 1000 years or so after NWN1 version
3 - All characters allowed to play decendents of their or another's prev. characters except WLDQ PCs
4 - To play decendents of WLDQ will require a special layer to bio of character submission
5 - #4 so that no character will start off with "exceptional status" via name
6 - WLDQ elves like Rev and Ozy and long-lived dwarves (Kobal) get to be NPCS if they live past NWN1
7 - Cities/towns/trees/etc... in name of WLDQ characters where appropriate
Now I have been away along time and just peeked by at times.. Though I am very eager to see layonara in NWN 2 nad trust me I'll be here.. And reading the suggestions in this post, there is alot of nice ideas going, but what shadowblade said here is my "vote" ;)
-
Im for 4 and then 1 thats it for me (nice and short)
-
yeah definitely option 4. set things far enough into the future to enable the option of drastic changes to politics, geography, economics, etc. and allow individuals with influential characters the option of being involved at some level to any changes in timeline/geopolitics that their characters would have affected.
-
I still say mix three and four.
-
Mix of 1, 3 and 4 (like Marswipp). Full wipe where players will be allowed to either play decendants of their old characters or new ones and have WL PC decendants require a special layer to their bio. (Sort of like a Paladin. Acknowledging that their characters won't have a ton of special knowledge or "connections" or powers or anything like that.) Still, it has yet to be decided whether we'll go to NwN2 or simply start a new Campaign with NwN, and if we go the route of the latter, will there still be a wipe. Meh, let's get the first figured out... umm... first. :)
-
Can I ask as Ozy, is 1000s of years old and has been around for ever, could he not live throw the 1000 years and be in Layo NWN2 just as he is now but older a even more crochaty and grumpy.
You know he reminds me of Marvin the Andarod out of The hich Hickers giuld to the galixy
"Life! dont talk to me about life"
-
I don't play on layonara to be an all mighty powerful character. I play here because of Layonara and the people I have met. I keep coming back because of the Layonara community, the RP, and the DM dedication to the community. I am all for a character wipe. I don't care if I have a level 15-20 pc right now.
I might be for keeping your back ground and history of a PC, or even the name with a new background and history. However we all need to start fresh and at level 1.
-
Lalaith Va'lash - 7/8/2006 8:20 PM And do we know anything about its capabilities with Mac and Linux yet? I for one am all for Layo one lasting a bit longer- before Layo2 and NwN2 come along.
NwN2 won't be available for either (though the server may be available for Linux, I didn't check on that). The only way to play it on a Mac will be to Boot Camp into Windows, if you have an Intel. And even then it won't run on a Mac Mini, MacBook or low end iMac-- you will need at least a 128mb video card, not shared video memory. It's too bad because a lot of us OSX users are going to be left in the cold when all the servers and players switch over...
-
I play half my time on a mac. it is too bad that it wont be supported in NWN2. even running boot camp or paralles there will be a performance hit :(
As for how it should go I am with shadowblade225 all the way. that list seems like the way to go, clean start for all.
-
Shadowblade225 - 7/21/2006 8:57 PM
1 - Complete Wipe
2 - Next "age" - 1000 years or so after NWN1 version
3 - All characters allowed to play decendents of their or another's prev. characters except WLDQ PCs
4 - To play decendents of WLDQ will require a special layer to bio of character submission
5 - #4 so that no character will start off with "exceptional status" via name
6 - WLDQ elves like Rev and Ozy and long-lived dwarves (Kobal) get to be NPCS if they live past NWN1 7 - Cities/towns/trees/etc... in name of WLDQ characters where appropriate
sounds good to me to.
-
I know that we're all excited about the imminate release of NWN2 but you know to be honest I have mixed thoughts about the possibility of changing over to NWN2.
On the one hand there has been so much customisation done in Layo, that will have to be redone if it can be redone at all. I keep hearing rumours that NWN2 will not be able to handle as much as the original but whether that is true or not, I just don't know. Even if we do change it will probably be a long time until we get back to the level we're at now. It doesn't seem that it will support MAC or Linux, something which will affect a significant proportion of the NWN communty as well as certain people in Layonara as well.
On the other hand there will be better graphics, although that doesn't really concern me as much and in fact it may cause a problem with people who don't have good graphics cards or less powerful systems. However one thing that does excite me about the new game is the changes to skills, feats and classes, I'm not talking about PRC classes but the orginal core classes. For example the changes to the bard song and the change that allows druids to sacrifice spells for summons in the same way that clerics can for healing, as well as many other probable changes. I still wonder how they are going to implement 'tumble' for instance will it be automatic as it is now, or will you actually be able to tumble? Have to wait and see I suppose. I expect that there will be new crafting skills as well, how will we intergrate these into Layonara's crafting system if in fact we do.
There are lots of questions and very few answers and to be honest given the downsides as well as the benefits of the new game, will it add to Layonara or diminish it? Although unfortunately I'm sure that one of the things that future players will take into consideration when thinking of joining Layonara will be whether it runs NWN2 or not.
-
is there any way we could make this a poll?
If so my vote is option 3
-
With regards to making this a poll, I'll quote myself in the post that started this:
So here’s a list of options, note that there might be more, but it’s the ones that are most obvious.
and
Feel free to share your insights, but please do take into account the points already raised above, and think of any advantages, disadvantages and potential problems with your suggestion.
So no, no poll, I was looking for suggestions :)
Thanks!
-
Option 1 for me.
As a newish (is that a word?) player, one of the things I found off-putting about layo generally was that so many friendships/guilds/alliances/associations had already been formed that I felt a little outside the 'boys club' (generic expression!) as it was.
A glance at the calendar confirms this, for me anyway, as so many of the quests are 'by invite only', 'friends of character X only', 'returning players only please', 'restricted to levels 20+', whatever...
Option 1 would certainly address this! My fear would be that other options might see quests of 'descendants of character x only' from day 1...
PS. I'm also on a mac so it's probably irrelevant anyway!
-
Pseudonym - 9/21/2006 12:16 AM
-'by invite only'
-'friends of character X only'
Quests marked like these are usually CDQ and WLDQ, in which case it involvs 1 person, and whoever they want to come, these is not a normal quest its something speacil for one person. You two can have a CDQ and invite your friends, or you can invite random strangers onto something that is going to effect your chars life, i personally wondent want some people i dident know along, be they lvl 2 or 35.
'returning players only please'
Alot of times if you see this its becouse its a continual quest being run over a course of 6 months or so. Alot of time, if it says that, it is becouse of there the last quest ended, for example, middle of the ocean, middle of the Abyss, locked in a dungion. Now the lock is there becouse there is no way anyone is going to randomly pop up in these locations and be all "hey can i come yada yada" Inless maybe your a sea elf.. and you jump onto the ship.. or a tifling and live in the Abyss or something.. but odds are, due to the RP, new chars joining the quests just wont fit.
'restricted to levels 20+'
Now these are becouse of there the quest is going. Most people under lvl 20 have no place being on the east server. Or whatever foe the quest is focused on, is something that a lower lvl char just can not handel becouse your going to die, again and again, and the party is going to have to raise you and wait, and drag on about it. So GM's let anyone come on any quest, which works i think, but the 3 death rule usually stands, as well as Calem rule. After 3 deaths, your forced to auto respawn as the system makes you, and your out of the quest for that day, alot of times if you doing something constructive your welcome, but if your just along for the ride, and saying nothing, they will makes sure you die, or they will ask you to leave becouse all you end up doing is sitting invisable in the back milking exp.
Ive noticed that were in kinda a dry spell for quests, alot of WLDQ are currently running, i belive that has a big factor in it. I know ive seen some months where there is a quest going every day, then this month there are a few days without a quest, or at least an open quest. It happens, give the GM's some time to site back relax and be creative so they can come back next month or whenever and have some interesting new long quest to throw at you.
-
Maybe I didn't make my point particularly well . . . I know all the reasons why they are restricted, however, that doesn't change the fact they still are restricted, especially affecting newer players, does it?
Option 1 would, for me, address that to a degree. If GMs weren't so busy running WLDQs and the such maybe there would be a lot more time for open quests?
-
The above may be true.....but what with the new powers being bestowed upon WLs, you may find yourself actually questing with them and gaining XP for your role play rating. Also, once you reach the dizzying heights of Level 20, and have put so much time into your character, you'll be overjoyed to have the chance for a WL position or a CDQ.
Or of course, get in early on a GM quest, and you'll find yourself Locked IN the quest, never needing to worry if you'll have a place tonight or suffer a really bad roll for a slot. I certainly dont think theres any lack of GM quests....I've been on many, at differing times.
I've probably posted already here....but here it is again. Option 1, a complete wipe, but transforming possible WL characters into quest giving NPCs.
-
Pseudonym - 9/21/2006 3:18 AM
Option 1 would, for me, address that to a degree. If GMs weren't so busy running WLDQs and the such maybe there would be a lot more time for open quests?
Eh....that's a little unfair, don't you think? I'd wager if your character was at the point where he/she could qualify for WL status that you'd be thinking differently, especially if you'd spent 1-2 RL years building and developing that character...but I digress.
The fact is that there are more CDQs being run (which can be run at any point after 10th level) than WLDQs, as there are relatively few potential WL's with requests in the pipeline, there are even fewer GMs who are qualified/approved to run a WLDQ (not all GMs run them, either by choice or by experience), so they're really a minor contributor to the quest schedule.
It's also important to note that very few quests have ever required level 20+. It's extremely rare, and in fact most quests have low or no level requirements.
Lastly, we just added 5 GMs and when they get up to speed, I'm certain there will be more quests available for all experience levels. These kinds of things go in cycles as GMs come and go. It really can't be helped, but we do the best we can.
-
Dorganath - 9/21/2006 10:37 PM Eh....that's a little unfair, don't you think? I'd wager if your character was at the point where he/she could qualify for WL status that you'd be thinking differently, especially if you'd spent 1-2 RL years building and developing that character...but I digress.
I'm sure I would think differently then . . . I thought the point of this thread was for Ed to get different opinions from different perspectives on the matter of a nwn2 changeover? I was trying to point out, FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A NEW PLAYER, my perceived advantage of option 1. Obviously I would have a different perspective to that of a 4 year player!! People who have characters who have been running for years can post as they see fit on this thread with their own motivations and reasons for doing so without the need to justify such opinions to me!! My post on this matter is my opinion only!
-
Right you are Pseudonym...youre entitled to your opinion and I agree with your comments also.
However I can add from my experience spending 1-2RL years on Layo that option 1 is still the right one in my opinion and that all current epics after submitting a concluding bio should be remade as NPC's that can be used on quests or whatever.
-
I was not trying to shut down your opinion regarding the best course of action if and when we move to NWN2. I was, however, trying to clarify that WLDQs are not the main contributor to a lack of open quests. If anything, WLDQs get put off more than regular scheduled quests, and there are far fewer.
Anyway, if you felt I was trying to shut you down, I apologize. I was only responding to what appeared to me as a cause-effect conclusion based on an inaccuracy.
-
*looks up at Dorganath's post*
Who ever accused me of being argumentative? *grins* I was just contemplating the perspective of a first day player who rocks up on the server after reading somewhere that layo runs 40+ GM quests a month, looks at the calendar for September and sees; 4 x CD Quests (char levels 14-16), 4 x Mid-High Level Quests (levels 10-20), 15 x long running/locked party/invite only quests, 12 x WLD Quests and only 3 x Open quests.
Anyway, if Ed is still reading this, can I change my vote over to Option 5 ... sticking with NWN1?
Fom the other changeover thread it seems the main advantages of NWN2 are ones of graphics improvements but as the premier RP server ... who cares? The apparent disadvantages (Mac/Linux issues let alone the mountain of work required for content) seem, to my mind at least, to outweigh the advantages!
If antone wants to PM me with the errors of my ways . . . feel free! Sorry for getting thread off track!!
OPTION 1 or 5!
-
LoganGrimnar - 9/21/2006 12:59 AM
they will makes sure you die
All I can say to that is hmmm
-
Problem we have Psuedo is that we're from Aust and you're probably not gonna get on many quests regardless of the lvl's they service.
At best when Pan and Storm were running some in our time zones you might have picked up a couple a week. Now it's probably only Dez that you'll get on.
anyway I'm not complaining with that. My time commitments wont allow for much quest activity unless they're relatively short in length, so I'm happy. Anyhow I digress...
cheers,
Polak76
-
Sticking with NWN1 actually seems like a very good idea, though I'd look forward to jumping the campaign forward even without a game change.
-
Can we try and keep this on topic please :) Thanks!
-
I'll vouch for that. Stick with NWN1. If its not broke.....why make another?
Bring another campaign out.....the world is full of new characters making progress....I would be gutted if Febuary came and we all swapped to NWN2. Yeah, sure, it would be great to start again on NWN2.....but I cant find any fault with 1 yet.
-
Right...another random blurt. If the transition to NWN2 happens and a character chooses to play a descendant of another previous layonara NWN1 character, it should be requested, and this should be common courtesy, that you get permission from the player whom played the character you wish to play a descendent of, before submitting the character for approval regardless if that character was a low or high level character, WL, ect..., .
-
What really annoys me about a wipe is, Ive come to enjoy playing Zan's character and develop her story, I would really like to finish it, but its not like Im ever gonna reach lvl 21 before next year. A wipe would really destroy many good stories and characters.
-
An interesting thing about setting it far in the future is that you can "Phase Out" a lot of areas and focus on new ones. Instead of Hlint being the main hub, everything could be designed around a new little town. *Throws a dart at the map* Like Shard for example.
What does this have to do with characters? Well if you phase out certain areas and cities then you can phase out characters heavily associated to that city or location too. Lar could become a bustling mining and crafting city, and the Blacklung family has become engrossed in the process and politics. Leilon is hinted at in the lore later of once having a great inn. Etc. etc.
Basically give the "important" players a tangible place in the lore and history of Layonara. And potentially allow bloodlines. Just require a large amount of background in the character submission. No doubt that being adventurers (And thus the "Sports stars" and whatnot of Layonara, they're bound to find a girl and bear offspring. As long as that doesn't infer preset power, then I see no problem in wiping the slate clean and allowing some bloodline characters.
This also allows people to play a character who is very similar in his goals and ideals to their original character.
So, I say wipey wipey, but with privelages.
Having said that, fairness be danged, I want Ozy to be able to be Ozy =P Hehe.
-
I think it really depends on what the people who create the world (DMs) want to create.
If its the current world transposed to NWN2 then we need some formula to transfer characters given the 20th lvl restriction in the new game (cut the characters lvl in half comes to mind).
If we wipe then we start again but I think most people will just be playing thier favorite characters all over again. I will be playing a dwarf fighter or human ranger just like ive done in D&D for the last 27 years and I imagine that most people have a favorite char that they play most of the time.
Both seem fine to me. it all depends on what world the DM wants to create. Ill be back either way.
The options that might keep me away are the compromise ones that seem cheesy to me. Why do we need a whole tribe of decendents running around?
Wipe or continue I think. If continue then cut all char lvls in half to stay under the lvl 20 cap.
-
A decision has been made, please see here:
http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=30619&posts=34&start=1
Thank you all for your input!