The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Aqwena on July 14, 2006, 03:22:58 AM
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Is there a general rule of thumb when in a party that describes the distrobution of loot? Some players are more materialistic than others, that's a basic fact of human nature. However I personally in a game like this believe in need before greed on loot items. For example, yesterday on Dreagar a large group of us adventured together and we had a lot of fun. At the end of the adventure a few loot items were available. One of which were the blue suade shoes. Now these shoes were not useful to everyone as it only gave +1 dex +1 cha, yet most everyone rolled on them for greed. My character Aqwena "Auuumi" was desperatly in need of these shoes. They were an immediate upgrade as charisma is a Sorcerers primary attribute. Yet nobody even considered if anyone needed the shoes, everyone just rolled for greed with the winner wanting to sell them to me for 20k gold.
I would think that if a character can and will immediatly use an item as an upgrade then that character should have priority, with multiple "needs" rolling for the item.
Auuumi
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I understand what you are saying, but there is a simple cost implication. Blue suede shoes are valuable and everybody needs money. If you don't need that item, you can use it to buy another item they would need. If people don't roll they are missing out on the oportunity to come into money.
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The market price for these shoes are inded somwere around 20 k. And the most fair thing is to make a roll for the item. Also these shoes are excellent for crafting like gemcrafting. Voon do wan't those shoes because it will increase his chanses in making fine jewelery and Boon did the roll so he ccould give them to his bro if he would win them. And who is deciding who are in need of the item most?
In my opinion its not greed to roll for boots that are worth 20 k. since for those 20 k you get from them when you sell them you can buy what you are in more need of, example an Adamantium sword or whatever.. So maybe the winner that wanted to sell them for you for 20 k was in fact rolling for an addy sword that he now kan buy for the profit from the boots.
The general rule is that the ones intrested make a roll and the winner gets it. Of course in partys were all the character knows eachother well, people step down an let the one that needs it the most have it.
I have a grand example here.
Kilkenny. Gotak, Xiao and a few others were adventuring on Xantril. on the trip an Emerald ring with bulls strenght were found. market price for that would be about 150.000 gold at minimum. we rolled for it and Xiao wonn it. but a day after he gaved it to Gotak since he would have more use for it. that was a fine gesture me thinks :)
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I know how you feel Aqwena and at the end of his quests Leanthar gives out a few nice items that you can roll for, and he wont allow people to roll for it if they just plan to sell it, it is just common curtousy, especially since the items he gives at the end of his plot quests are a tad rare. Also though there are other factors like the two above just posted and I personally think it all goes down to your characters alignment and personality(still a degree of courtesy should be shown).
My character only met yours once, so I dont know how yours would react to it, but for example my character most of the time will go on a "I'll treat you the same way you treat me basis". So if someone wins an item she really wants only to want to sell it to her. Next time when it comes to looting and she finds a few nice things she would pocket them and not say a single thing (she'd probably want to do something to give the person a bit of a scare as well). Once again though I think this would depend on your alignment and how you play your character.
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Auuumi,
I totally agree with your opinion on this and really don't like to be with parties that do that kind of thing. I am lucky and don't know if this is a common occurence or not in normal play. My opinion is that if you find a rare item and it was a loot drop, only the people that need it should roll for it. Period. If noone needs it, great, everyone roll for it, the winner auctions it off and has fun with their new found coin. It would also be acceptable for someone to win the item, then someone else in party says to you "hey I saw you looking at those shoes, well I have a pair for sale".
An exception I see to this is if a party does something like gather diamonds (CNR). I find it acceptable for people that won the diamond on the roll (or ideally everyone got one in the distribution) to sell the diamond to another party member. Then again, diamonds are CNR anyway and not rare items like blue shoes or purple hard hats or whatever else is out there.
I assume that you made your needs known to the party regarding the shoes you found and your characters need for the shoes to help the party in the future. People that didn't need them should have dropped out of the rolls. I suppose we could say "it's IC for my half orc gnome fighter to want anything a party finds so I should get to roll" and think that is sufficient. Well, it's not. Think about the OOC part of this too and how if there was a nice item you wanted and someone said "it's IC for my brownie barbarian sorceress to destroy all special loot drops because I think they are evil so I got rid of it on a corpse".
If I ever find another pair, I'll just give them to you. I promise. ;)
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To me if it is a DM quest then only people who have will actually use it and not sell it should role for items.
As for general adventuring loot it depends on the party...
Some parties enquire as to who is able to use it first and role amoung those only rolling amoung the entire party if none of the people it is suitable for want it. You tend to find these parties are full of people who know each other and they always run the loot like this.
Other parties just roll for each item and highest gets it.
Neither is wrong in my book. Everyone has (hopefully) pulled their weight and made it possible for those items to picked up as loot. So what if the Fighter wins those boots? (For example) He can sell them and buy his next set of plate and didn't he work as hard to earn them?
Maybe the latter way is considered greedy but then the argument could go the other way....Why should your character get it just because they can use it better than another when the entire party made it possible to pick it up?
I'd like to point out that I'm playing Devils Advocate with my last comment as I'm lucky enough to usually travel in the first kind of party.
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i was there in that party and i myself agree that need goes above greed, but its no written rule and if someone wants to roll for them out of greed, it doesn't matter to me...i would not do it if i don't need it. In the case of the boots i rolled since it has charisma on it and my char can always use that for undead encounters and charisma multipliers in the divine spells...so auuumi wasn't the only one who needed the boots....this shows that sometimes you don't even know if people really need them or if they role out of greed....you said it yourself, you thought you was the only one that needed the boots....well serissa could use them as well, and one day i will have those boots, maybe next time i get lucky....
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This is how I see it and it works in my quests. If you do not need (ie you are not going to equip the item when you get it) then do not roll for it, simple as that. Let the players that NEED the item get the item first, I don't care what the 'resale' value of an item is or not. Respect and courtesouy for the community members come first. So if you have no intention of equipping the item when you get it and keeping it for a few levels then do not roll for it. Now, if nobody has a need for it then everybody is open to roll for the item and then do what hey want for it. That is the right thing to do folks as it works well within a community, it allows players to have fun and not get frustrated by the players in a community, and it keeps the players around longer. I always go through all of the items and let everybody roll for them one at a time. Then we go through one last time for any item that was not 'needed' and roll for that item and the winner gets it and does whatever she/he wants with it. There is no hard set rule for this as I do not want to get to that level of 'managaing' the community, this should be up to players but the right thing to do for the community as a whole is Need before Greed. But the players define need and greed, not the team or myself. One good rule of thumb though would be if you plan on wearing the item for at least 1-2 full levels and you plan on equipping it when you get the item.
One thing I want to throw in here...this is a game, clearly....but what if it was real? What if you were in a jungle (as an example) with 3-6 people, climbing the mountains, cutting through the trees, fighting those creatures, healing and protecting each other day after day.... I guarantee in that case you would definetly put need before greed and I would bet you a good amount of money that even the 'greedy' ones would do it as it would allow them a better chance to survive in the long run. The party dynamics would be quite different than a 'game' because you would have to put need before greed and I feel that is what you should do in the game.
My 2 cents. :)
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There's no "rule" as such. Personally, I generally don't party with people I don't already know well, and when I do, I often avoid the whole loot issue completely. It's not that my character couldn't use the coin (he really could) or nifty items but I just prefer to avoid the hassle due to the greed issue. In-game, I guess that comes out as being altruistic, but really it's just me not wanting to mess with it. There have also been occasions where I started to participate in the loot process and just stepped out because it was getting too silly.
When I do party up for some adventuring and it's with a group I know well, typically what happens is that the group understands the concept of party loot, and when we're done, each person mentions what got picked up, what it does and we talk about who can use it. It all comes down to an issue of general respect and a process that's not dominated by greed or the "gimmes".
The same was quite true in my old PnP days, when the party would divide up treasure at the end, and never would a fighter, for example, ask for a mage staff for example so that he could sell it for the coin.
My personal opinion is that people should not compete for items for which they have no use or RP reason to have. Though therein lies the loophole of "well, it's my character's RP to be greedy..." *shrugs*
So like I said...there's no rule, and not all parties/people deal with the loot situation in the same way. But people should deal with loot, be it gold or items, in a fair and equitable way.
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I have updated LORE with a post, again it is NOT a rule...just a request.
http://nwn.layonara.com/Handling%20of%20Loot
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Heck im tickled when I even get to see what is looted... seems often I end up with the looter who pockets it all and never says word 1.
No one to blame there but myself I suppose.
Whenever I am asked about items after a trip I say if I have first hand use of it or if I would only want it to sell it over.... and if no one speaks up and says they will use it personally then I roll with the others.
IMO thats how it should be.
Another idea is.... you win something your done.... so don't roll till you see the item you really want... or really need.
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Heck im tickled when I even get to see what is looted... seems often I end up with the looter who pockets it all and never says word 1.
That is just plain wrong and a serious limitation of the game engine. Guess you really need to trust the looter to do the right thing in game. I'd have the paladin loot but usually need him up front. :)
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As someone who loots a lot for my groups our general way is to announce any items as we go, then we decide at the end, and need is the primary factor in deciding. That way everyone knows as we go what we've picked up. If more than one person could use an item they roll off. Otherwise it's given; no questions, no coin expected. To pocket loot without telling is not only deceptive, it's despicable.
Although at the end of a very long night I sometimes have to be reminded to split when I'm dog tired and my nose is in the keyboard :).
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Guardian 452 - 7/14/2006 9:22 AM
Another idea is.... you win something your done.... so don't roll till you see the item you really want... or really need.
Well, ideally the loot -- items and gold combined -- would be split up into relatively even "piles" or "shares", and then each character gets to choose one share. The choosing order can be detemrined either through group consensus or by die rolls. (For example, a party member who went "above and beyond" the call of duty may be granted first choice of shares by the other party members before any other order is determined -- in extreme cases, a group could even decide to give one member multiple shares.)
Particularly valuable items may each be an entire "share" itself. The problem, of course, comes when an extemely rare or valuable item is included that is worth well more than other shares (possibly even combined). If it's a regular group, it shouldn't be much of a problem -- whomever gets the rare item this time doesn't get one next time, or takes smaller shares for a while. In an ad-hoc group, someone who wants the valuable item may need to put in gold/items into the "pot" the rest share to make up for it.
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You know.. I have seen scripts that announce to the party items/coin that have been looted. I'm sure, though, that 1) it adds to lag and 2) it steps a little too far in the direction of some MMO's.. Just mentioning.
I'm always NbG in any game I play. If I was playing a selfish character I might grumble about it but I still do it. I look at it this way - if it strengthens those that my character is partied with it means 1) better chance for all of us to survive and 2) we'll be able to do tougher encounters sooner.
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There are some things that I can't help but not refrain from saying even though I know I shouldn't speak them. This is more of getting it off my chest and ya I'll look bad for saying it - sounding more like a whiner.
There have been many...many instances whereby my character has been in utterly desperate need of something while certain other players, who's PC's were far...far more well equipped, have rolled for the item and won it outright. In these instances the item of interest would serve them somewhat, but there was really no need. I've learned to accept that. This has happened on plot quests and otherwise. It's simply chance. But I would like to see that if a character has a notoriously low AC for instance, while other characters already have a more than adequate AC, if an item is a particular sheild, it should at least be discussed and pointed out that this character has more of a need than any of the other characters.
Ugh, well now I feel at least a bit better.
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Keep in mind the last post was during OOC loot/item splitting, not IC. IC it would obviously depend upon the nature of the character.
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Of course, not being a friendly person here is my small contribution. Does your character even deserve the item? Need vs Deserving. Does your character just skulk and provide a few buffs like Ozy? If so then probably you only really deserve what no one else wants and a fair cut of the gold. Traditionally thou I've always seen handling items found on a need basis, whom will get the most out of it and in turn contribute the most thru it.
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Meira - 7/14/2006 8:57 AM You know.. I have seen scripts that announce to the party items/coin that have been looted. I'm sure, though, that 1) it adds to lag and 2) it steps a little too far in the direction of some MMO's.. Just mentioning.
We actually have something like this, but we need to get it tested to see how much it affects lag. I've been holding off putting it into the game since we're not sure how much lag it will produce.
And yeah, something like that would solve the problem of dishonesty, but not solve the problem of greed.
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Dorganath - 7/14/2006 11:00 AM Meira - 7/14/2006 8:57 AM You know.. I have seen scripts that announce to the party items/coin that have been looted. I'm sure, though, that 1) it adds to lag and 2) it steps a little too far in the direction of some MMO's.. Just mentioning.
We actually have something like this, but we need to get it tested to see how much it affects lag. I've been holding off putting it into the game since we're not sure how much lag it will produce.
And yeah, something like that would solve the problem of dishonesty, but not solve the problem of greed.
If you'd like a system that is low overhead and proven on many PW's I will send it to you. Loot distribution is a problem that needs to be fixed.
Edit: Edited so it reads as intended
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*shakes head sadly at Talan* "problem" is loosely defined. "been done for months" does not qualify here because you are not the integrator and you are not the one keeping things running on the modules. You are a part of a team, lets act like a team member Talan.
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I dunno, and shoot me down, but this sooooo seems like an in-character issue rather than an OOC issue. That is, if the characters are greedy, and you don't like it, talk to them about it IC, if they're your friends, or find someone else to roll with, just like you would in RL. I understand the concept of griefing, but geesh, if the loot was always spread fairly and on a need basis, it sorta busts the illusion for me. Life ain't like that. You get cheated, things aren't fair, etc. I'd rather have that than always getting my fair share. It's, to me, much more interesting, complicated, and real.
So you they aren't going to let you have the boots you need, speak up, complain the whole way back, do something about it. Whine until they give them to you to shut you up. Or don't. But if you're character wouldn't do everything it takes to get the stuff he/she needs (which is totally fine and fits "realism"), then don't complain out-of-character that he/she didn't get them. Relying on the goodwill of the party is, well, rediculous, unless you are in a party of all lawful and neutral good characters. And no, I'm not aiming this directly at you, Agwena. I totally understand what it's like to see the things you desire pass you by, especially due to the greed of others. I'm just putting this out there in general. My opinion, of course.
My general rule of thumb is, if at all possible, keep it in-character.
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I appreciate this thread and the new LORE entry.
Keep in mind a fundamental motivator of the Nwn game is acquisitive: as gamers we want to get xp so we can get levels and all the powers that come with them; and we want gold so we can participate in the economy to acquire more powerful items, houses, and other luxuries. Hence this aspect of the game feeds greed.
Just being aware of this factor helps to keep it in perspective.
I like the analogy you offered in the LORE entry, Leanthar. Realistically, camaraderie and maximizing the effectiveness of the group (and hence the survivability of individuals) would trump any other consideration whatsoever.
I concede that such a group ethic is more lawful, and a group dominated by chaotic individuals might function differently, if not less effectively (Milt made some good points in his post which he made while I was composing this).
And I like your admonition, Milt, to keep it in-character as much as possible - but the “greed element” I have mentioned is an out-of-character dynamic affecting +every+ player to some degree.
So I reiterate the main point of my post, here: +gaming+ factors foster greed in each individual player; by being aware of this (and that our fellow players are experiencing the same thing, and wanting to maximize their enjoyment of Layo), each of us can play and roleplay more effectively.
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miltonyorkcastle - 7/14/2006 12:53 PM
I dunno, and shoot me down, but this sooooo seems like an in-character issue rather than an OOC issue. That is, if the characters are greedy, and you don't like it, talk to them about it IC, if they're your friends, or find someone else to roll with, just like you would in RL. I understand the concept of griefing, but geesh, if the loot was always spread fairly and on a need basis, it sorta busts the illusion for me. Life ain't like that. You get cheated, things aren't fair, etc. I'd rather have that than always getting my fair share. It's, to me, much more interesting, complicated, and real.
So you they aren't going to let you have the boots you need, speak up, complain the whole way back, do something about it. Whine until they give them to you to shut you up. Or don't. But if you're character wouldn't do everything it takes to get the stuff he/she needs (which is totally fine and fits "realism"), then don't complain out-of-character that he/she didn't get them. Relying on the goodwill of the party is, well, rediculous, unless you are in a party of all lawful and neutral good characters. And no, I'm not aiming this directly at you, Agwena. I totally understand what it's like to see the things you desire pass you by, especially due to the greed of others. I'm just putting this out there in general. My opinion, of course.
My general rule of thumb is, if at all possible, keep it in-character.
Unfortunately this is a non-PvP server. If it were a PvP server, then there would be repercussions when you're caught stealing... like you being stabbed in the back.
In order to maintain the family-oriented atmosphere that really causes Layonara to be the most angst- and anger free massive module in NWN (trust me here), the non PvP rule needs to respected to the point where you betray what you wish your character might do.
Now stealing, cheating, lying... about loot, while perfectly in character for some, puts this at risk because there is no possible interaction on the subject for the defending character. It's fist shaking at the most, and this by default causes it to fall close to the griefing aspect.
I agree with you fully, it's just not in the grain of what keeps Layo as the most peaceful community out there. And unfortunately that means keeping the straight line on certain aspects, and I find this to be included in that package of keeping the peace.
All that said, this aspect that you and I are discussing detracts a bit from the original posting, which was a bit more innocent in nature I think. Sorry for getting off base. :o
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**grins wickedly** There are other ways besides killing and fist shaking to deal with those who trespass against you...
But yeah, that's slightly off track from the topic of the original post. :P
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Well you started it. *sticks out tongue, wiggles fingers from his ears, and runs off with the loot*
:p
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"Need" the item? What, so if your character doesn't get it for themselves when they lose the d100 roll, they will spontaneously combust and become unplayable? Admit it, everybody here just WANTS an item, some more than others perhaps, but it's not a "need" like food, shelter or basic clothing. What is fair when everybody in a group is fighting a group of monsters, is that everybody who contributed has equal claim/ie: the right to roll for it.
If you don't like a character's greed, don't group with them. This is an IC issue, and characters who are friends of yours will naturally gravitate items towards you.
On another note, you should see the amount of greed that happened the last time Bjorn went for diamonds. Eerily about 3 or 4 ultra-low level people got side invited into the group as we entered the caves... fully incapable of either working with or "using" the diamonds. These people stood in the hallways far back, doing nothing with great valor... *snickers* and lo and behold, they were also the most vocal about getting a split of the diamonds, even suggesting that Ozy and Bjorn, two of the only people who had business being there or did any work, have to roll along with them.
Grudgingly, Bjorn made the split as he did not forewarn these people that "hey, you're not coming along because we need you, you asked to see the rift and you saw it. Want diamonds? mine them yourselves!" I'll never make that mistake again. About 4 grubby little hands that did not "need", earn or deserve diamonds got them that day. Now, whenever I go ANYWHERE that has decent CNR, I make the people following me sign a contract/waiver acknowledging that their cut is the loot gold and opportunity to rolld100s on dropped items, nothing more. If they don't like it, then they don't follow me.
So aye, I can see how people not needing things all rolling d100s gets annoying, but it's ENTIRELY an IC issue. Those people tthat weasled and cheated Bjorn out of his diamond pile will NEVER get the opportunity to join Bjornigar Enterprises again! Therein is the IC system of checks and balances.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAH! (Tough luck mooches! ;) )
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*snickers* I looooves the Fat Dwarf.
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A non issue for me. Long ago I accepted that I will never get the winning roll for anything I need in a large group of players. So I adventure with people and characters I trust and know my need and not with others that don't.
As for what Lonn said I can totally agree, if I ever get in a group doing CNR I never try and get part of it unless it's offered to me. My main character, Nob, makes sure the fighters are always alive so he passes good items like that to the fighters and usually keeps items used by Wizards unless there are other Wizards present.
Now if we could get some scrolls above 3rd level to drop that might get my hopes up to do more die rolls ;)
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To comment on the topic and the one that branched out from it...
- The idea of handling "loot splitting" in an OOC fashion because the -player- wants something just makes me twitch.
I can agree completely that it is better for items to go where they are needed, but I do not think items such as L's quest rewards are a good example. Those are not looted from corpses, they are rolled out of character after it's all gone down, and are usually class specific. Anyone who sold one, whether or not they still use it, would need to be shot. Gently. But shot. :) So it is in everyone's best interest to try only for what you can use, as the only thing you accomplish in doing otherwise is ripping someone else off. You don't even get money from a sale, and it's completely out of character so "my alignment justifies this" isn't going to cut it.
In this case, it is a valuable item found in a party of varied characters, that is as a whole likely hunting for gold as well as XP... and it is not a class specific item. As much as I cringe at the description, they're still ultimately a pair of dancing shoes. Yes, they benefit a sorceror or a bard (or really anyone that wants them, let's be honest) because of their stats, but I don't feel anyone is obligated to hand them out... and I'm saying that as a player of a bard who would be in the running for them if they dropped for a group I was in.
This thread does bring up valid issues, and yet it seems to have started mostly because someone did not get an item that they felt they were due. We do not know the character's role in the party, how well it was played, the roles of the others in the party, how the distribution was handled and if it was in or out of character, who looted, what other items were split (if any), or any other factors that would make it easier to assess the situation in a more unbiased fashion than "my character totally should have gotten these." I can understand the sentiment, but would rather refrain from jumping on it without knowing the surrounding circumstances (did anyone ELSE need it?), and what attempts you made -IC- to deal with this completely IC issue, before coming to post on the forums. (Ouch on the selling back to you though, harsh.)
So yes... with Cole on that one. IC all the way, while acknowledging the whole greater need thing.
- On the somewhat different subject of outright stealing things, I also like that done in an IC fashion. Many people list the "ideal ways to handle looting" but the methods of any CN character of mine would be very different from that of the LG paladin. It seems obvious to me that the "ideal way of looting" is actually just making someone you trust grab the gold and items. IC and OOC. No problems.
I can (very) grudgingly admit that a system sharing what party members find would make sense for these OOC snakey actions, but do not at all think it is a "duh," as to me it only creates metagaming situations, removing the option of well-played, IC theft in most cases, in a purely OOC fashion. Swiping a longbow or a greataxe? Bogus. Pocketing change and trinkets? *Shrugs...* Have a problem? Don't let rogues loot -- solved. :)
It would be implemented to help prevent the tasteless and clearly OOC theft but it does come with a sacrifice to roleplaying that is perhaps necessary because of players that are not roleplaying in the first place. (Abusing PvP rules, "I can hide stripping off his adamantium full plate and stashing it," etc)
In the end, though, you don't need to betray your character concept in order to "respect" fellow players when it comes to theft. It's called emoting and skill checks. You don't even need to tell them what the check is for. But if you're -really- concerned about the roleplaying ("it's my alignment!"), then you should very well know that simply keeping an item is an auto-success that is forced and OOC. If you've got the skills, use them...it's what they're there for.
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"if I ever get in a group doing CNR I never try and get part of it unless it's offered to me."
well, offered or bargained for. ;) It's totally acceptable to speak up before a CNR expedition to say. "Hey, I too work with this material, can I get a cut?" Every crafter should speak up before such ventures. As for random drops, bargaining for dibs-rights also is acceptable. Before venturing out, every character expresses which key item they want more than anything else. The mage says he wants the dusts or scrolls, the fighter wants the weapons, the cleric wants Oppressive Theocracy, etc.. Then if by chance such items show up, they get that one, and have to sit out the next item found out of fairness. This is called "Round Robin Contingient" Looting.
Let's see, more looting classes...
Free-For-All: Everybody picks up what they can... usually used when gold is almost negligable or groups are in a hurry, in transit.
Pile & Split: EVERYBODY loots, then tosses it in a big pile at the end and splits it
The Red Bank: One Looter divys up everything as equally as possible.
The Swiss Bank: Through laundering, some people found more equal than others... ;)
Worker's Revolution: any of the other forms, mixed with the requirement that only those who work with particular CNR get to split it.
Worker's Beneficience: As above with Worker's Revolutuion, but the crafters opt out of the gold-split as to bribe the rest of the group fairly.
Bourgeoise Fleecing: The higher the level, the higher their order in line
Marxist Revolt- The LOWER the Level, the Higher their order in line
Round Robin: No member may recieve his 2nd random item until ALL others have at least 1
Round Robin- Chance: Every person gets to roll for an item until they get one, then they must wait until everybody else gets an item before they can roll again.
Round Robin- Contingient: per Round Robin, but with Dibs called well before the venture. "I would like a Bloodletter's Blade if we find one!"
Round Robin- Static: Like Round Robin Chance, but no rolls are made. Instead, the group has a numbered list of members who are in line to recieve special items. So when item 1 is found, it goes to player 1, Item 2 to player 2, etc. Afterwards they usually trade with eachother.
Cut-throat Chance: Every time an item is found, EVERYBODY rolls d100, no matter how many items they already won (the most practiced method, unfortunately)
Dibs: declaration of ownership rights
Blind Dibs: When dibs are called before the item is identified... ie: oh hey I found something... *3 players raise their hands*
Contingient Dibs: BEFORE the adventure, the character calls dibs on a certain item or type of item that his class uses. Mage- "I want the scrolls!"
Rabid Dibs: When dibs are called when item is SEEN, whether they use it or not
Absentee Dibs: When dibs are called for an item a character would like to hold onto a friend not in the party... "My mage friend needs topaz, I want a cut of that"
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lonnarin - 7/14/2006 3:12 PM
The mage says he wants the dusts or scrolls, the fighter wants the weapons, the cleric wants Oppressive Theocracy, etc..
Point for Lonn! *Snickers.*
Edit- Aha! You back-edited. Lonn's Loot Methods post is now my favorite in the thread...
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lonnarin - 7/14/2006 3:13 PM
On another note, you should see the amount of greed that happened the last time Bjorn went for diamonds. Eerily about 3 or 4 ultra-low level people got side invited into the group as we entered the caves... fully incapable of either working with or "using" the diamonds. These people stood in the hallways far back, doing nothing with great valor... *snickers* and lo and behold, they were also the most vocal about getting a split of the diamonds, even suggesting that Ozy and Bjorn, two of the only people who had business being there or did any work, have to roll along with them.
Grudgingly, Bjorn made the split as he did not forewarn these people that "hey, you're not coming along because we need you, you asked to see the rift and you saw it. Want diamonds? mine them yourselves!" I'll never make that mistake again. About 4 grubby little hands that did not "need", earn or deserve diamonds got them that day. Now, whenever I go ANYWHERE that has decent CNR, I make the people following me sign a contract/waiver acknowledging that their cut is the loot gold and opportunity to rolld100s on dropped items, nothing more. If they don't like it, then they don't follow me.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAH! (Tough luck mooches! ;) )
I completely agre..... HEY WAIT! I was with you on that!
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Acacea - 7/14/2006 4:02 PM
- On the somewhat different subject of outright stealing things, I also like that done in an IC fashion. Many people list the "ideal ways to handle looting" but the methods of any CN character of mine would be very different from that of the LG paladin. It seems obvious to me that the "ideal way of looting" is actually just making someone you trust grab the gold and items. IC and OOC. No problems.
I can (very) grudgingly admit that a system sharing what party members find would make sense for these OOC snakey actions, but do not at all think it is a "duh," as to me it only creates metagaming situations, removing the option of well-played, IC theft in most cases, in a purely OOC fashion. Swiping a longbow or a greataxe? Bogus. Pocketing change and trinkets? *Shrugs...* Have a problem? Don't let rogues loot -- solved. :)
I agree with you completely on these points. 100%.
But, this is a family oriented no PvP server, and it's a rocky road entertaining any of these. Now this extends into a lot of aspects that we tend to try and smooth over with soft metagaming.
The problem arises in the disparity of playstyle, ethics, and opinion in the large crowd that makes up this player base. And it ultimately comes down to keeping the peace on a broad sweeping scale.
Why was PP'ing made against the rules? Because of the disparity in the player base and inevitable disputes.
Why was PK'ing made against the rules? The same reason.
In every situation where something should arise in an IC fashion to lead to PP'ing or more usually PK'ing.. we metagame, alter our RP to the best of our ability, and change the desirably course to keep the peace that is set by the server rules.
Unfair loot distribution or keeping items found without notifying others is something that potentially brings forth the same problem that disrupts the peace. Because of the disparity of opinion, playstyle, and ethics in the player base and inevitable disputes.
Sure, it leads to altering situational roleplay, and it disrupts the IC nature a lot of people would prefer to keep. But if we can deal with that in reference to PvP in other aspects, then we can deal with it here. And people will keep the peace.
Yeah, I know that the players that we each like to circle around and associate with don't need these rules. They probably don't need PvP rules either amongst themselves. But when they apply that to someone of different playstyle and anticipate the same response as they'd have amongst their own preferred peers... problems often arise.
Now there's potentially system that will help with distinguishing better the usable information you'd need to actually roleplay this out. The one Dorgonath pointed out. And if it allows the group to see what is picked up... then the opportunity arises to fairly roleplay out the situation should any theiving characters play their part. This resolves the issue in one sense... but then makes many scenarios PvP. What if they don't concede that they have that additional item? What do you do then? Is there a broad spectrum solution that stays true to the no PvP server?
It just gets difficult, and I think in the end, the disparity of opinion, playstyle, and ethics in the player base will lead to inevitable disputes that bring this into the realm of PvP situations that Layonara has as of yet successfully avoided to keep the peace for a happy server.
But yes, in theory I'm 100% with you.