The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: NEXUS7 on October 11, 2006, 11:20:07 PM
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Hi all
well I have just had news from the GMs which I will not go into detail over, but the out come of which is I wasted a lot of Layo life TIME.
In the past I have left Layo from time to time to cut down on time played, unlike many here my real life time is very scares, I have a hard job with long hours
and thows hours can be any time day or night. If I get a call mid DM game thats it im logged and gone.
So playing here is a treat I give myself, well for some time now I have been trying to do some thing and looks it was all for nothing,
and as I can not MAKE more time for layo as has been asked for. Now I have been on layo for over 12 mouths and there are DMS that have been here
less time than that. what I have found is that my game play as stagnated I just can not carry on making new PCs getting to 7th level and hanging there.
Lanthar there is a here wall a real wall at 7th to 9th you know its there, its a player time wall,
You log into Layo and start to play, up to 6 is fast around 20 hours will get you there, but then the wall hits.
The rules say no cheating in getting EXP and no telling other players how to zip up the level tree.
Good rule keeping players like myself dont even ask we keep to the rules.
So you ask on here, and you will get one flat responce, THOW SHALT PLAY DM GAMES!
Are you say to you self if your like me, DM games nice idear for thows with more game time but
when yoru RL gets in way of your lAYO life then is.
so its Sorry kids our way or NO WAY! which is there right as Lanthuar so all this himself for free.
But for me a lowly player I will never make 9th, SPugly only did it becouse the big L gave him 52k on one of the 3 DM games I have ever done.
So what is this GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA.
Its like having a realy demanding Girl freand
Its the COMITMENT WALL
see at 7th to 9th you have to move from being a Ill be a small time player to a Commited player.
Thats means real big time comitment, that means DM games and to get up that level tree lots and lots of DM games
with a group. See RP is what its all about and real RP is done many feel only in DM games. Yes you can run around with the
new players on Solo land but MDs rule here.
Thats the wall, TIME DEDICATED to LAYO = REWORDS.
8 mouths of odd hours here and there thats not what is wonted no, REAL LONG DAYS AND NIGHTS OF YOUR life sat it your pc
feeding the layo monster.
Now we who can not give that time end up looking in as other zoom past us up the level tree, they get all the cool stuff
and all the cool classes, they have been places and seen things wile we solo away on Hlint snaping for titbits of XP.
Well that wall to big for me,
what has just happoned means my PC is dead in the water, I just can not make the time and frankily im sick of trying.
Lanthuar thank you for Layo and all the DMs that work so hard here but The GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA is one that makes or brakes players,
after a year on here its broken me so dear layonorts have fun evey one and I may pop in and see LAYO nwn2 but im done here.
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* Was told not to say anything if I didnt have anything nice to say *
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NEXUS7 - 10/12/2006 4:20 PM
well I have just had some bad news from the GMs which I will not go into detail over, but the out come of which is I wasted hours of my life for nothing.
Didn't you have fun playing? If so, how were the hours you invested a waste? Isn't the fun of playing it's own reward?
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for a time yes but in the end you it the Lyoa wall very hard, that tends to take a lot of the fun out of it.
yes you should say "its ok RPing at 7th level for ever is all the fun I need" but have you ever seen any one do that.
No becous to see more of the layo world your need to clime that level lader, ask a DM in game "I keep getting deaded when I go there" you will get
"well get stronger and you be a better fighter/mage etc" add to the High level players wondaring into Hling going
"O how I hate this place, its nothing like the cool place we hand out at"
But lets face it the wall is there, its real so lets stop pretending its not.
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Nobody have ever said the wall isnt there. But your saying its completely impossible to get past, and thats not true. But DM quest help alot, and if you can't commit to any of those, at -all-, then there is not much hope. But I have to say, there is alot of low level quests these days, more than ever, and they are timed at alot of diffrent times, and diffrent days, so theres is bound to be one that fit to your schedule.
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If I'm not mistaken, all of your characters save your most recent have been special subraces. Your most recent character was only played up to level 5 as it is. Given that half-giants have an LA of +3, tieflings +2, and brownies +2 as well, you're effectively playing characters that are receiving XP as though level 10 or higher. That is a documented slowdown point, so I'm not really sure why you're so frustrated. Perhaps if you had stuck to one or two characters you would not have run into the wall you seem convinced is in place to frustrate those who don't have a lot of time to invest in the game. As with everything, more time means more returns. It's simply how things are.
It's not all about level. Make some friends and go somewhere with them. It's surprising just how much even a small group of similarly-levelled characters can manage, particularly when those characters have level adjustments to be more powerful than other characters of a given level.
This isn't your first time having these frustrations. Back in July, I seem to recall a post similar to this one. Did you forget when you came back what had frustrated you before? If the "wall" is there, then it's because you're still approaching it the wrong way.
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First of all, I wholely recognize and agree with you that there is a level wall or.. hump might be more appropriate. It is not a small hump. I'd place the peak of it at 9th level though it really does begin at 7-8, then 8-9 is a bit worse then 9-10 is the longest.
After you reach 10, 10-11 doesn't seem so bad.
Just for comparison, I've had a character at level 9 for... close to six months I believe. I also currently have a character who has been sitting at level 13 for months. The fact of the matter is that those characters sat at that level for so long for one reason: I choose to engage in non-xp gaining activites because I had more fun. Does that mean I didn't want to level? No, not really. I did. But when it was a choice between fun RP and focusing on something that would get me xp I almost always choose the former.
Well, except when I have the chance to go on a DMed quest, that's like getting both at the same time :)
NEXUS7 - 10/12/2006 12:53 AM
"O how I hate this place, its nothing like the cool place we hand out at"
ohhh hehehe, this NEEDS some clarification.
There is NO super cool place that high level characters congregate and hang out.
The complaining about hlint is all IC. There isn't really another place on the whole server where you can go and always run into other characters. Talan may talk about voltrex favorably but usually I'm there alone or with one or two other players that came with me.
Hlint is pretty much the only gathering place. Even when you're level 23 you'll still come back to hlint when you want to find people to RP with randomly.
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Anyway, I sympathize with your situation and I think ways are coming to reward the more solely rp oriented character in addition to DM RP rewards (which I believe you were a recipient of when I was on the other day ;P)
There are intangible rewards to a playstyle that doesn't focus on XP though. I'm sure there are many characters that reached high levels very quickly that I may not have met or quickly forgot.
I remember the names and mannerisms of... 4, no 5 of your characters over the past year. I'm just using my own memory as an example (as I can only speak for myself) but I'd imagine that your characters are known and remembered much more widely than many characters that gained xp quickly.
This message is for all of the players out there who focus on RP and feel frusterated by xp and levels.
Edit in response to Raynoir: Oh yeah, ECL is a bugger. After playing ECL 3's, play a human, it'll feel like cheating ;P (I'm exadggerating, but the impact of ECL should not be underestimated.)
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I've been here for a very long time, playing on and off and have only reached level 9 with one character, who then was recreated and haven't gotten any further than level 7. So I got 2 level 7, 1 level 5 and 1 level 3 and I also feel that there is a huge and almost impassable gap between 7 and 9. But, I did have fun with all of those characters and I will, slowly but steadily, get there.
All in all, every hour used on this server has almost always been a joy but my timezone and limited time right now, makes it a bit hard to do anything. :)
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Blackguy - 10/12/2006 12:09 AM
Nobody have ever said the wall isnt there. But your saying its completely impossible to get past, and thats not true. But DM quest help alot, and if you can't commit to any of those, at -all-, then there is not much hope. But I have to say, there is alot of low level quests these days, more than ever, and they are timed at alot of diffrent times, and diffrent days, so theres is bound to be one that fit to your schedule.
I saying the WALL is the Time needed to get above level 9
see my point what your saying is just what I said
"But DM quest help alot, and if you can't commit to any of those, at -all-, then there is not much hope."
Thats the wall its rock solid and there is no way past, booking a CDQ is out as well as if I can not comit to DMQs then, well you see my point.
There is no way past the "get a Layo life" or its low levels for all time.
And look I have been on here over a year, playing the times I can, when I have time I drop in. I dont do DMQs becouse I can not garentee the phone will not go and then I have to log. I have tryed to book 3 CDQs but as you book weeks in advance I dont even know if I will be un the UK from day to day so thats out.
The wall is there, it kills play for players like me there is and never will be a Level tree for us, Thows that can not commit hard time day in day out.
You know this so why say you can get past it you can not.
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Rayenoir - 10/12/2006 12:13 AM
If I'm not mistaken, all of your characters save your most recent have been special subraces. Your most recent character was only played up to level 5 as it is. Given that half-giants have an LA of +3, tieflings +2, and brownies +2 as well, you're effectively playing characters that are receiving XP as though level 10 or higher. That is a documented slowdown point, so I'm not really sure why you're so frustrated. Perhaps if you had stuck to one or two characters you would not have run into the wall you seem convinced is in place to frustrate those who don't have a lot of time to invest in the game. As with everything, more time means more returns. It's simply how things are.
It's not all about level. Make some friends and go somewhere with them. It's surprising just how much even a small group of similarly-levelled characters can manage, particularly when those characters have level adjustments to be more powerful than other characters of a given level.
This isn't your first time having these frustrations. Back in July, I seem to recall a post similar to this one. Did you forget when you came back what had frustrated you before? If the "wall" is there, then it's because you're still approaching it the wrong way.
Yes i did last time and the wall is still there, yes you can RP at any level but there is only so many time you can go into the red mains show new players around and
talk about the war.
Yes I have subraces, I new I would have the XP hit on this BUT! as layo seem to have players who all like playing subs to the pint Landuer has to shoot the door
to stop players taking them im not any amy means unusahle. As for not playing wight are you saying there "IS!" a way to get levels with spiradic playing times.
Becosue you knwo its chating to tell me, so how did you find it if there is a way.
Also I do put the time in its just that I can not make FIXED times, 4 or 8 hours here i have done I just can not book the time.
If I had a DM who seeing me in game TELLs me hay your on cool lets do that CDQ then I can say yep I have 4 hours here, But layo is about BOOKED TIME
and that I just can not do, I have got 6 count them 6 PCS to levels 6 to 10, thats becosue I can do that in game by RPsing quests with NONE BOOKED Time
The wall is the NOW YOU MUST BOOK TIME FOR QUESTS and that where layo ends for me.
So I make a new PC and RP my guys out, ask the players about MAX, Mille and Spugly all much loved all RPed and all ingame when I can make it.
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With the XP you have accumulated with your other five characters and taking your ECL into account your main character would be over level 11.
You cannot expect to have six characters and level up steadily with all of them with limited playtime. Only those with plenty of time can even attempt that feat and even then it takes time. It requires patience to get over the wall, but it does not require for you to exclusively just go to DM quests. There is no big hidden secret conspiracy. It's simply being there with groups and slowly increasing your XP through crafting, sporadic quests, quests, and/or adventuring.
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trillex - 10/12/2006 12:37 AM
I've been here for a very long time, playing on and off and have only reached level 9 with one character, who then was recreated and haven't gotten any further than level 7. So I got 2 level 7, 1 level 5 and 1 level 3 and I also feel that there is a huge and almost impassable gap between 7 and 9. But, I did have fun with all of those characters and I will, slowly but steadily, get there.
All in all, every hour used on this server has almost always been a joy but my timezone and limited time right now, makes it a bit hard to do anything. :)
Ye im the same I play all to times of day not just GMT and see a lot of the player who come one when layo has about 6 or 7 in.
Im not saying RP is not fun, why do you think i have 4 PCs all every difarent all Disened as RP PCs not Munkins.
Spugly, Softharted half Gaint who still morns Aylas death.
Max, lost plaintuched who found a key in Sigil and end up in a war, his Brain Box all a mudell andready for the dustys
Mille Mooneyes: Map maker and news hound for Bee that most respected of Brownis, How many groups have head out with Mille and had them selfs saved by here
healing.
Rosa, The mad Punk Monk who hates all god
So I do RP and Im not a XP bunny its just that to get more from layo you have to book RL time which I just can not do, the and thows who have posted here have said with out that then your stuck.
Thats the wall its big huge and fixed, there is no way around the BOOKED TIME = LEVELS
Thats why I giving up I just flat out fustrated at the lack of help for thows like me, time and again I have seen posts which say the same thing.
RP yes its good but when you stuck at the same level seeing your RP mates zooming off its just gets disartaning and fustrating.
you brake on the GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA
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I've actually noticed that spending 2-3 hours adventuring with friends can get you the equivalent of 2-3 hours worth of GM time....depending on where you go of course.
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Pankoki - 10/12/2006 2:47 AM With the XP you have accumulated with your other five characters and taking your ECL into account your main character would be over level 11.
You cannot expect to have six characters and level up steadily with all of them with limited playtime. Only those with plenty of time can even attempt that feat and even then it takes time. It requires patience to get over the wall, but it does not require for you to exclusively just go to DM quests. There is no big hidden secret conspiracy. It's simply being there with groups and slowly increasing your XP through crafting, sporadic quests, quests, and/or adventuring.
Wrong, thats not what im saying I saying thats what I tryed with my 1st PC spugly and hit the GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA also after larning what Layo was I was new to online gamming and layo is my only server. I made Max then mille then rose each let me run around the Solos and RP the NONE booked time that is my play time, BUT I found Mille the best PC Meny here make two or more befor they find that PC they realy like to play, MIlle is mine But for her to go the way I wont her to I needed to get a CDQ are the GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA means I must book that time but I can not book time QED dead PC. And Spugly well he lost all and I mean all his fellows to, Death, Lost gamers, or they levels out of quest reach, NO one below level 10 need aplay, and remeber taging with high level PCS is chating if your farming for XP. Ayla died and so he went home, sorry but Im not going to shoue horn RP into a PC just to make levels, Adding up all my PCs EX will not make him 11th becosue he needed to get thows from doing this out side Hlint whare as the others did the same quests over and obver. And one level 7 heading out solo to get Ex has a very lonly time and dies real fast. who going to help you get to your grave stone when you on your own and miles from Hlint. So your wrong sorry adding up all my EX dos not give me livel 11, just lots of the same quests which where done with fun and good RP.
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LordCove - 10/12/2006 2:55 AM
I've actually noticed that spending 2-3 hours adventuring with friends can get you the equivalent of 2-3 hours worth of GM time....depending on where you go of course.
yep it dos but it dos not get you a CDQ when you can not book time sad but true.
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With all due respect, and in perfect understanding of your dyslexia, could you please take a time to review your post before submitting? I have tried to read it a couple of times, but I fail to see how what I say fails to address your statements. Nor do I understand the point you are trying to make.
Regardless of that, and what I think is what you are stating, is the fact that you can't get with groups of players in order to level up, or that the systems in place impede your character from further progressing. Again, you are placing your own limitations. So your Shadowdancer wasn't approved yet? Alright, bummer. Level her up as a rogue and continue playing her since you enjoy being with her and sooner than later you will hit a group of players to hang out with and go ahead and get the XP.
I can tell you from my own personal experience, that I've faced all those walls you mention, yet with time and patience slowly I managed to find a niche for my character and whenever she passes by through Hlint, there's at least one or two people asking her to come along to do something. Am I lucky? No. I too had to go through at least 3+ months of shuffling about before I even got into a steady playing group.
I believe that your problem is easily solved with some patience and I understand the frustration, at some point we all have been there.
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NEXUS7 - 10/12/2006 4:03 AM Pankoki - 10/12/2006 2:47 AM With the XP you have accumulated with your other five characters and taking your ECL into account your main character would be over level 11.
You cannot expect to have six characters and level up steadily with all of them with limited playtime. Only those with plenty of time can even attempt that feat and even then it takes time. It requires patience to get over the wall, but it does not require for you to exclusively just go to DM quests. There is no big hidden secret conspiracy. It's simply being there with groups and slowly increasing your XP through crafting, sporadic quests, quests, and/or adventuring.
Wrong, thats not what im saying I saying that I tryed with my 1st and hit the GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA so after larning NEW online is my only server I made Max then mille then rose each let me run around the Solos and RP the NONE booked time that is my play time, BUT I found Mille the best PC Many here make two or more befor they find that PC they realy like to play, MIlle is mine But for her to go the way I wont her to I needed to get a CDQ are GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA means I must book that time but I can not book time QED dead PC. And Spugly well he lost all and I mean all his fellows to, Death, Lost gamers, or they levels out of quest reach, NO one below level 10 need aplay. Ayla died and so he went home, sorry but Im not going to shoue horn RP into a PC just to make levels, Adding up all my PCs EX will not make him 11th becosue he needed to get thows from doing this out side Hlint whare as the others did the same quests over and obver. And one level 7 heading out solo to get Ex has a very lonly time and dies real fast. who going to help you get to your grave stone when you on your own and miles from Hlint. So yor wrong sorry.
Regardless of why you stopped playing each, you still played each for a time instead of playing one. It doesn't really matter though because playing varying characters is part of the fun of role playing. If one is so convinced of someone that their opinion will not change despite reasoned argument then it is not really a debate anymore. The reason things need to be scheduled is so people know when to show up. The need for scheduling when more than 1 person is involved should be fairly apparent and there isn't much that can be done about it. Especially involving somehting like a CDQ when the DM, the player, and everyone the player invites must show up at the same time. That kind of coordination requires scheduling or the event simply will not be able to happen. Also, everything Pan said is correct. You can get over the wall without going on a single quest. I've done it with an ECL 2. Over several months. Also, you don't need to be high level to join parties. Those that make an RP contribution and especially those that are charismatic and likable can usually implant themselves in any group. If you are getting angry at this discussion perhaps you should step away for some time for other reasons.
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"The reason things need to be scheduled is so people know when to show up."
Im not saying other wise, but its a probelm when you can not book your time for CDQ.
"Also, you don't need to be high level to join parties. Those that make an RP contribution and especially those that are charismatic and likable can usually implant themselves in any group."
also true but it has been comented on here about the lack of lower level quest, this may have changed but when you can not book time what matter so it make.
"If you are getting angry at this discussion perhaps you should step away for some time for other reasons."
I am still at Fustration when I get to anger I will do just that.
NEWS UP DATE
http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=30802&posts=7&start=1
Thats A grate Idear, If the level of CDT is low then by droping some EXp staying at 8th and then doing some good RP and CDT logs.
The lock out of CDQs for thow that can not book time can be over come and the wall comes down. I like it its simpal and lets me RP my why out of this.
Deep breath, yep thats the way past this
Thanks aragwen and also stormspirit for there grate idears how to get past this
and to all the DMs and all who posted here,
I will take it back you can get past The GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA of Booking CDQ thinks to some clear thinking.
Deep bearth and realix
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So next time, please take the deep breath first and ask if we can come up with some solution or if there's some other way instead of making the post above.
Thank you.
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Will do, but I also feel I made a valid point here, there is a 3ed way which is take down your ex and put the time you have into RP and CDT,
aragwen (DM) made a go point on DMs not seeing PR in game if thay are not there thats where went wrong, For each hour of RP
in game I should have spent the next wrighting up in my CDT for Mille means less playing time but gets her where I would like her to be.
Also there is a wall, bump, blip call it what you will from 7th to 10th as has been pointed out here,
the only thing that counters it is TIME played in game, It could be lots of time in the short turm or
small bit of time over mouths but it can be gottem over. Booking time for guests helps aut there has to be a rot for thows
like me who can not book time, and lets be clear on this I have time just can not book it.
I know that each DM like players has there own point of view on this and thats a good thing, you need many points of view to make a team strong.
This is one instance where many hands make light work.
But also understand I was looking at a CDQ or nothing post last night which would crush any one after so much work and time.
Thanks once again.
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Don't know what to say man.. I only was able to make one dm quest and it was the defense of pranzis, got diced out of two others and I made one cdq (rhynn's) Still Today i'm lvl 13 so I dont know what to tell you. Maybe you should go around with more people see things, get into a guild and start makig the harvesting trips.. Ideas for you.
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I myself work long and unpricictable hours and raise a small child which makes playing time scarce. My character however is slowly but surely making his way over the wall. So i would say be patient and keep at it because you will eventually get over the so called wall.
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Nexus7, I think this is the 3rd or 4th time you have started a thread about this subject. Don't know what to tell you man. We certainly can't create the game around others schedules, we create it and if people like it they play. In addition, if you look at my V3 post I stated I knew about this "wall" as you are so fondly calling it. We will try to help with the problem with more NPC quests in V3. But as I have also stated a number of times in all of the other threads that this subject was brought up in... SPREAD OUT! West is mean for levels 1-8 (but can clearly be done by levels higher), Central is for level 9-17 (or around that) and East is everything up. If you want XP and you want to fight the "wall" less go to central. Little we can do about your gaming time or what you do in that time. "......Thats the wall its rock solid and there is no way past...."
Really? So how do you explain the HUNDREDS of other players that are past level 9 or for that matter the dozens and dozens that are up in the level 18-36 levles? Somehow they found a way past it.
Again....There is little we can do about your gaming time or what you do in that time.
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Leanthar yep over the year + I have been on your (by the way grate serever) I have posted about this more than once.
I think I have it now, as meny say DMQ's help a lot then for thos that can not "book" time ahead its real hard
we have the hard slog over the wall. (note if V3 helps with this then grate news there) I did take back the "Thats the wall its rock solid and there is no way past" What I should call it is "THE HILL" some can zip passed as there life can be moved around layo, but for thows whos
have to move layo around there life its a hard long uphill clime It can be done its just long and very hard.
SPREADING out would be good if only every one did it but they dont, Layo is Hlint and west centric, as has been said on this threed even
high levels come back, they may have there PCs say they dont like Hlint but every one comes back,
I have done trips to Centra, I get 2 hours off RL, I log on, I spend 1/2 rping a group to head out to Central we start the walk, sail port there, we head into the wilds, My times up I log, NExt time on in im on Central alone and if in a hard place looking at death as a fast way back to hlint. I head back to hlint 2 hours RT later I log off to do the hole thing again. There is no where on Central where groups log in and stay (th level PCs just dont do that, every one heads to Hlint.
I have gaming time its just I can not Book that Gamming time and One phone call and all that times gone as a rush off to work.
The best news is that in V3 The 7th to 9th level thing will be looked at, thats all I have been saying about levels.
Booking CDQs well thats another matter and that has been sorted in a feel a very good RP way.
Seeing how the HIll,hum,bump,wall etc is now ecnolaged to be there and is being looked at in V3 I will not rase this matter again.
And once again thank you for letting my 1st Online world be users, it is the only one I play and its to my knolage the best around.
Nexus7
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"....I have done trips to Centra, I get 2 hours off RL, I log on, I spend 1/2 rping a group to head out to Central we start the walk, sail port there..."
There is a teleport at Morakens that puts you on Central, it takes maybe 5 minutes to get there. Or you can go to a friends house and port to Prantz, which takes maybe 10-15 minutes counting finding the friend.
I don't know how to make it any quicker for you than that.
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sorry Leanthar it should have been "Sail and magic port" I am taking into acount teleports.
"Or you can go to a friends house and port to Prantz, which takes maybe 10-15 minutes counting finding the friend."
I will have to try that I asumed it was meta gaming so have never done it uless envited throw RP to use some ones teleport.
I could do a TELL to some one in West or centrail and ask them by they would have to come to me with the key to there house.
We can drop this if youy like I dont wont to take your time up on stuped stuff if im being dumb here.
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You could always try to hire a room in one's house. Or ask someone for a key to their house to use their portal. Wouldn't be expensive at all, I think. Or maybe for free, if it's a really good friend? :)
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Thats where I have been going wrong then I had the idear it would be metagaming to do this and have a key to another players house with out a room there.
I never seem to have the cash for healing let alone the 1,000s need for a room. Forming for coin I have aways tryed not to do.
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I do have to agree with one thing that he sais though. Layo does revolve around Hlint. I'm a lvl 13 and I stick to hlint because of the guild business we do there, offering goods to the new comers and such, but most of our outings are done on central. I think that if players would actualy spread around more hampshire, prantz etc and not always stick to hlint (talking of coming once in a while to hlint and staying at other places most of the time) then maybe it would be easier for others to actualy stay in higher leveled grounds as they know they could find people to team up over there and do trips with them.
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Im glad this is sorted out. Look around central or west on fridays or saturday GMT evenings, and we'll go somewhere :)
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You can just do a Tell to somebody and ask for their house key :) If some stranger asked you for yours, you wouldn't give it either. However, once you have an IC friendship with somebody who has a house, you could ask IC if you can get a copy of the key.
There's also 'public' portals, as Leanthar already stated, next to Moraken's Tower. There's also one in Casterly Castle.
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Thank Niles Will do, I have booked 2 DM games now as yet work/life has not droped things on me so I may make it for once.
But there are 2 days yet
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if you think 9 is a wall wait for 14 LOL. I have made 14 and 15 with two characters with almost no DM quests. I also dont have to play time framework that allows for quests. Once in a while one will run in the times that work for my life. You can get up to the teens with out them. Getting past say 15 without quests I am sure is hard or at least takes months of balance play between RP and XP.
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Yeah level 8 to 9 really drags, and 9 to 10 as well. Its taking me forever to get to level 14 with nepp. If he doesnt perm.
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I have to say that "geting into parties will get you places". I RP both my characters heavily but I go adventuring with my friends or people that I have interacted with.
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The thing is, the first six or seven levels are supposed to be relatively easy. Once you are fairly settled to the point where you can contribute in parties a few levels lower or higher than yourself, that is where the "XP Wall" kicks in, and for good reason. If people kept leveling at the same rate that they do in the beginning, we'd all be level 40.
The "Level 9 Hump" (which is essentially getting to level 9 and from 9 to 10) used to be a LOT bigger and badder to traverse. Now, people can usually get past it in a month or so, which ends up becoming about the average (that I've seen) for each level thereafter. You see, Layonara has to remain a challenge for those people who can put in 3-4 hours a day playing, but still be reasonable to excell in for those you can only put in a few hours a week and I think it's already about as close to that as it's ever going to be. Is it fair that Jimmy-Z can play for 25 hours in a week while Lenny-IV is lucky to get on for 5? No, not really. Is there anything Layonara can do about that? Not really, except create a fun environment for however long one has to play.
Also Layonara is about Role Playing, but no one ever said that you can't Role Play while fighting. Personally, I've seen some of the best Role Playing in my three year Layonara career during combat. Derrick, Quin; going to go back a ways and also say Tiny, Lilya, Tolinar, and Eldoran (back in the day). Many of them were made for combat RP, that's just where they shone brightest. Then you've got people who were obviously made for more "quiet" role playing, and that's fine too. It's not fair to say or imply that Layonara is holding you back because it pushes for heavy role playing. It is what you make it and that's all there is to it.
Parties and quests are what will do it for you in the end. At the end of the day there's always going to be another level for you to attain, but when you accomplish something through Role Playing, that is where the true feeling of satisfaction comes from.
ZV-
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*wonders if he'll see Tath online ever ;) *
I agree, with you, but that level 9 to 10 is a killer ;) I RP lots in combat as well as just sitting around (in party, surrounded by group of enemies, cast divine might, and say *falls on face in prayer* I think its funny)
And with hawk, I try to go on a quest every weekend, since its the only time I can. Some people can remember, hawk saying he will charge you gold if he has to raise you from the dead :D And its a bit hard to find a decent party to go out with, that doesnt go ahead and die, leaving you holding the bag.
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ZeroVega - 11/1/2006 4:37 PM
The "Level 9 Hump" (which is essentially getting to level 9 and from 9 to 10) used to be a LOT bigger and badder to traverse. Now, people can usually get past it in a month or so, which ends up becoming about the average (that I've seen) for each level thereafter.
ZV-
The Problem is that some of us spend 3-4 months raising one level.
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And that, Niles09, is very unfortunate. The problem is not on the balancing end of Layonara though. If Leanthar made levels 8, 9, and 10 easier to get through you'd still get stuck at level 11 and 12. Also, what about the people who already level fairly fast as it is? There wouldn't be that wall there for them any more either. Meaning they'd just level even faster.
I've been on the "No time to kill" (little pun there, har!) end of Layonara. When I first came here I didn't have a lot of playing time. Since then I've had good months/seasons, where I've been able to put a few hours into Layonara each day; and bad weeks/months/seasons, where I've hardly logged on at all (and felt the stinging affect of it when I log back in and find my self, once again, at the lower end of my friends' level spectrum).
All in all there are three things you need to gain levels consistently. 1) Time (even without though, you can do well). 2) ONE character. (If you're playing two, three, or four you won't level nearly as fast). 3) Smarts. (Don't do the same stuff every day. Shake things up and you'll find experiance, adventure, and fun.)
I feel for ya Niles but I don't think anything can be done at this point (except maybe introducing a few more NPC quests), but that's not quite a priority right now.
ZV-
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I think the thing is here is that once you have reached level 8-9 and hit afoot with what the original poster said as the Great Wall, by that time you are pretty much self sufficient to go on some of the harder quests, form a party and go adventuring plus at the same time have enough information to develop the character through interaction.
I agree entirely with ZV. I like how the levels are spread out. First, it makes me as player satisfied that I have accomplished that level. I know that if I was playing the stock NWN game, I would reach level 9 in no time flat, and all it will have ended up a hack and slash 'ordeal'.
Let me tell you guys that I have been on both sides of the spectrum, in terms of people RP while in combat and within the trip and others that just have orders, and only say one or two things such as "hold" "stop here" "attack". I can safely say that the RP during those trips had to be the highlight. It makes going to the same place adventuring more interesting as even though the creatures stay the same, the dialog "always" remain different.
At the end of the day for me, and I hope others find this as well...the RP in every aspect of Layonara, whether it be from combat to character development is the main enjoyment that they get from this world, and level progression is secondary. I would have no complaints at all, if it took 3-4 months to progress my character from level to level, providing there is heavy RP.
The "Level 9 Hump" (which is essentially getting to level 9 and from 9 to 10) used to be a LOT bigger and badder to traverse. Now, people can usually get past it in a month or so, which ends up becoming about the average (that I've seen) for each level thereafter. You see, Layonara has to remain a challenge for those people who can put in 3-4 hours a day playing, but still be reasonable to excell in for those you can only put in a few hours a week and I think it's already about as close to that as it's ever going to be. Is it fair that Jimmy-Z can play for 25 hours in a week while Lenny-IV is lucky to get on for 5? No, not really. Is there anything Layonara can do about that? Not really, except create a fun environment for however long one has to play.
Also Layonara is about Role Playing, but no one ever said that you can't Role Play while fighting. Personally, I've seen some of the best Role Playing in my three year Layonara career during combat. Derrick, Quin; going to go back a ways and also say Tiny, Lilya, Tolinar, and Eldoran (back in the day). Many of them were made for combat RP, that's just where they shone brightest. Then you've got people who were obviously made for more "quiet" role playing, and that's fine too.
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Ive tried a hack'n slash server before I came here, so I know the xp functions better here. I also RP at the run, adventuring and such, but some of us dont have enough time for things like quests. Besides, how fast do you lvl?
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To date on one of my character I levelled from 10-11 in one month or more. I was fortunate enough to go on one quest. I find it really difficult to attend quests, Australia is 2-3 hours behind so when its 8:30 AEST quest starting time, I am preparing for sleep, during week days.
I have to say that a lot of my 10th level character at the time (now 11th level) never ever went out on his own. He always went in a group. And for the most part he did a lot of RP. Which is what I want to develop even more. I got XP from doing that.
All I can say is run the areas (RP of course, keeping in spirit of the server) in groups. Groups and RP make a ton of difference.
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Well, it took me about fourteen months or so to get Tath (my main character from waaaaay back when, heh) up to level twenty. Obviously the first three to five went pretty fast. After that I had good months were I'd level once or twice and bad months when I'd hardly make any headway at all. I think from level 19 to 20 took two or three months, which was excruciating.
I've known people who would make level 15 and even 20 in six months, and it amazed me (and slightly annoyed me) when they passed me even though I'd been around for so much longer. Then there were people who I passed and who I'm sure got a little disgrundled about it. The fact is you can't dwell on how fast other people are leveling (it's still hard for me so I'm not acting all "holier than thou" or anything). Just do what you can with what time you have. Keep RP in what you do, even if it's going on a monster slaughtering fest. That's part of the game as well. :)
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Ive played on zan in... 17 months now, and Im lvl 12. (nearly 13 though)
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But thats the beauty of the whole thing now. Even though you are level 12 and you have developed a story around them through RP, there are so many opportunities that are now open to you. You can partake in CDQs and draw upon certain events IG that just would not have been possible fopr others that level very quickly but do not document anything at all.
Just because your character is level 12 doesn;t make him or her a lesser character to someone that is 18 or 19.
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Tanman - 11/5/2006 10:24 AM
But thats the beauty of the whole thing now. Even though you are level 12 and you have developed a story around them through RP, there are so many opportunities that are now open to you. You can partake in CDQs and draw upon certain events IG that just would not have been possible fopr others that level very quickly but do not document anything at all.
Just because your character is level 12 doesn;t make him or her a lesser character to someone that is 18 or 19.
Thats just not the way things work. Your character needs to reach lvl 21 before doing any epic development in his/her story, and quests... Last time a quest actually lay in a time I was able and wasnt locked, lvl limited or I just rolled a bad dice was somewhere around summer.
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That is true for WLCDQs. It takes a while, but RP and building the CDT will certainly go a long way to help you get that when the time comes.
A CDQ does not have any level restrictions at all to which i referred to originally. The minimum level you have to be to get a CDQ is 10.
As for quests, they are becoming a lot more varied and open. I too have a problem with getting on quests. But with the number of DMs increasing, there is more time slots available now.
I just wish there was a DM in NZ as well. :)
Niles09 - 11/6/2006 9:31 AM
Thats just not the way things work. Your character needs to reach lvl 21 before doing any epic development in his/her story, and quests... Last time a quest actually lay in a time I was able and wasnt locked, lvl limited or I just rolled a bad dice was somewhere around summer.
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I have to say just one thing here. If you wish to level up faster, travel in larger groups and explore tougher terrain. Perhaps the mountains near Valensk would be a good idea. They would be a fair challenge, but doable with a group that works well together, or at least a large enought group to overcome not working together. But if you are off killing ogre brutes and beserkers I suspect the exp is going to slow down to a trickle rather quickly. I now have a fighter level 6 or so and he is approaching this wall. (In fact he has hit a wall as he doesn't socialize enough to find people to group with that often) But take the grouping expiditions seriously. They are a great way to level. Take it from someone who very rarely gets to go on GM quests as well. (Perhaps 3-5 in the 2 years or so I have been around on and off)
Eredel
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Strykr - 11/5/2006 10:21 PM
I have to say just one thing here. If you wish to level up faster, travel in larger groups and explore tougher terrain. Perhaps the mountains near Valensk would be a good idea. They would be a fair challenge, but doable with a group that works well together, or at least a large enought group to overcome not working together. But if you are off killing ogre brutes and beserkers I suspect the exp is going to slow down to a trickle rather quickly. I now have a fighter level 6 or so and he is approaching this wall. (In fact he has hit a wall as he doesn't socialize enough to find people to group with that often) But take the grouping expiditions seriously. They are a great way to level. Take it from someone who very rarely gets to go on GM quests as well. (Perhaps 3-5 in the 2 years or so I have been around on and off)
Eredel
Yeah I know. I practically never go on my own since Zan cant really fight alone.
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Which brings me to one of the extremly annoying things about being such a low level compared to the time spend here. I know you just tried to give a good advice and help, so dont take this personally.
What really can annoy me is, when a 14 (or about that lvl) lvl char who have played here for just a few months starts "talking down on me/Zan," like Im just an unexperienced player who knows nothing about combat, geographies of the world or the history even though I would end up guiding the char through areas he never have visited, warning him/her against specieal monsters around and how to beat them, and maybe telling a tale from a quest happening a year ago.
Secondly, I know there is probaly alot of players that will totally disagree in this, but people simply tend to listen more to high lvl chars than low lvl's ecpicially in quests.
Fx, when we defended Pranzis Zan was by Pyyran put in charge of defending the merchants distrect (though I think it was only Pyyran that saw it that way) anyway, we got overrun in that distrect - totally. Being a SD Zan survived and got back to the western front, but even though she explained that the enemy has a complete opening at the nothern front and the could swarm in there (merchants distrect) noone reacted, while people happely helped any other higher level commander that asked for support.
Ofcourse this doesnt count for everyone, but... sometimes it just happens and then its not fun.
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I totally agree with you Niles. It isn't right for people to treat others with more or less respect based on level. Levels don't exist anyway. They're just a gague for us to tell how experianced they are in a certain sense. It's like Book Smarts vs. Street Smarts. If you're a level 20, but you power leveled there and you are totally in the dark on 70% of Layonara areas, history, and other characters, you've got the Layo Version of "Book Smarts." You're a high level, so people will fawn to you as if you know what you're doing. The people who do know what they're doing are the ones who get active, don't metagame, and say, "Forget the levels, I've been around the block a few times and I know what I'm talking about."
As for Pranzis, that was sorta sticky, but I don't want to draw the thread off topic. In short, I think Layonara has done all it can to even out the playing field for people who have 20 hours a week to play and the people who have 2... as much as can be done anyway. From here, it's up to players to make the concious decision to treat other players with respect. OOC, one should never be talked down to (unless they're total idiots, in which case ever other word will be #*&$!) and IC, one should only be talked down to if people KNOW them well enough or it's in their character.
(Just an example, Tath talks down to people allllll the time. If someone knows what he/she's talking about, he'll listen. But redheads who call him Duckie will get major sarcasm and cynicism.)
ZV-
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Niles09 - 11/6/2006 9:05 AM Which brings me to one of the extremly annoying things about being such a low level compared to the time spend here. I know you just tried to give a good advice and help, so dont take this personally. What really can annoy me is, when a 14 (or about that lvl) lvl char who have played here for just a few months starts "talking down on me/Zan,"
Dont forge that part of this may, cant not be sure since i wasnt tere, be part RP. Your character is, after all new to this world.
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Zan has been "active" for what would be about 18-20 years. She is certainly not new to this world.
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Niles09 - 11/6/2006 3:05 PM
Secondly, I know there is probaly alot of players that will totally disagree in this, but people simply tend to listen more to high lvl chars than low lvl's ecpicially in quests.
As with everything, it depends on the quest and on the party. Generally, on long time quests, it's how long you have participated that matters, not your level. For single session quests, it's generally one of the highest level persons.
It's something existing in all RPG-games, and not only here on Layonara. Strictly game mechanically, a higher level person is simply more powerful than a lower level one. If a lower level person wants to do something but the higher level one doesn't agree. Well, the lower level one won't be able to do it. If a higher level person wants to do something, he doesn't really need the approval from the lower level character. That's in my opinion the main reason of why the "party crowd" follow the high level people.
Now... This is actually not completely true. "Friends" has usually higher priority than "higher level". So, if your character is pretty much known by everyone as a trustable character, he or she will most probably have much more to say, even if he or she happens to be a very low level character. If the low level person just has one or two other character backing he or she up (the other characters doesn't necessary have to be high level characters), it won't matter if there are any lonely high level character there or not. Of course... If there happens to be a WL present, that one usually has more to say. It would be meta-gaming if that wasn't true (who would you listen to: "Everyday Joe" or "The High Priest of Toran"?). :P
With all this said, what's my own experience of this?
I would say it's a 50/50 thing on single session quests. Sometimes, I see low level characters leading the way. Othertimes, I see high level characters. Sometimes, even on quest series, I see low level/"new" characters do that!
The "X is higher level than Y, so therefore, I will listen more to X than Y"-problem do exist but I can't really agree on if whether it's a very big issue or not. I found it more common [not directed to anyone in particular] that the low level person in question doesn't really take the opportunity to do that, and not that he or she is not "allowed" to do that.
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ZeroVega - 11/6/2006 9:22 AM
(Just an example, Tath talks down to people allllll the time. If someone knows what he/she's talking about, he'll listen. But redheads who call him Duckie will get major sarcasm and cynicism.)
ZV-
I love you Tathy...
Also, I agree with what Niles is saying as well, as people generally -trust- the word of a high level character over the word of a lower level character. The reasoning behind this is generally 'if a character got to this level then he must have done something right , must know what he's doing, and must be an influencial person in the world of Layonara'
This is not always true, which goes back to the entire Book Smarts vs Street smarts argument ZeroVega had that I totally agree with. I've seen personal examples of the level thing with my own character Rhynn: Basically how people are more willing to listen to her now (Even when I purposely make some of the things she says completley wrong and outlandish) compared to the same line of conversation she would give at level 11 or 12.
At the same time there are those people who would totally ignore level: Example: Daralith. He's about a good 6 levels beneath Rhynn and STILL talks to Rhynn as if she's an idiot scum human, which to him, she is.
So Basically what it comes down to: You godda find the right people, the right parties, the right everything for your personal method of play.
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In response to lower level characters not being given their due respect...I have experienced this first hand and I try to give out respect to all I travel with. Usually in the groups I travel with I am either the leader (when I travel with my normal group of friends) not necessarily because I am of higher level than they are, but because I know the terrain very well. I usually know exactly what our group can handle and how quickly we can handle them. Often times when I am traveling with lower level companions, I gauge a fight with what I can handle 1 vs xx. I will not take lower level players into a fight that puts me in over my head because if something goes wrong, I can't protect them and we may all die as a result. However, I also greatly enjoy traveling with lower level groups more as an observer and support caster. I will let them do most of the work for two reasons: 1) I don't wish to powerlevel up a bunch of level 9-10 players on Central where I travel mostly where I kill everything and they just gather things. I don't feel it is good for the game really. 2) I don't wish to take away their experience of the fights that they will encounter. It is good for them to see just where they truly stand versus the evils of the land. But if they do get into trouble, I will unleash all I can as quickly as possible to save lives. In other cases, when I travel with higher level characters, (Sometimes with Ket for example), I am merely a follower again for 2 reasons. 1) He kills things extremely fast, especially when I have enhanced him magically. 2) He often takes me places too dangerous for me alone or in some cases to places I have never been (East for example), thus I have no choice but to follow, carefully.
So I guess it comes down to knowledge and power. But often level is wrongfully perceived as one or both. But experience with a character in either case will tell all. I have been with "leaders" that are no leaders at all, but have higher levels. And in some cases I have been in groups that move so painfully slow it literally drives me away. I was once told to slow down as a younger mage in an area where I was able to solo in because the leader in a group of 4-5 well versed travelers wished to single out the enemy "pulling" 1 at a time. In some cases it may be wise, but in others, it shows lack of trust or overcautiousness. I'm not saying that being overcautious is a bad thing, but it is not for everyone.
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I would suggest that you should find yourself to play within a group. Start up some new first characters together and get approved. Then play together with that group when all of you are on at the same time. The other times, alternate with the other characters that you have.
This is what I am doing now. I have a group that I play with. and when we are all together, we all play within a group. Using particular characters. I was able to get through level 8 in under two weeks or so, through a group (i am slowing down now). We will have an outing to the Dragon Isles or Krashin. We RP combat scenes like crazy and I find that just as entertaining than just grinding XP.
If I may make a suggestion I have played with Millie and Spug. IMHO, develop your friends. Talk to them IC. Just like in real life, if you develop your relationships with people then they are going to welcome you.
I see your characters and they just ask if they want to join a group....and then take off if nothing eventuates. Hang around and make friends rather than look for adventure only. Once you have formed some friends, or your character has formed friends, going on adventures is a lot easier.
There are tons of places, that can help you over the bump on Mistone. :)
But for those places, you 'definitely' need a good well rounded group.
Just my two cents worth.
I hope that helps
NEXUS7 - 11/7/2006 5:04 AM
wow I go away fro 3 weeks and there are some grate posts here, Thanks to ZV I do see where the team is comming from, For me I think the way to go is just do what I have been doing make fun PCs that work at Levels 1 to 7 and dump them at 7, I have more fun RPing a PC up a few low levels that farming EX to get over the level 9 to 10 hump and lats face it I dont wont to wast my small amount of Layo time doing that. So Ill stick at 1 to 9.
To be honest once your out of Hlint there are fower and fewer players to hock up with, on a good night you will have 50 odd on west and 20 on Central and maybe 4 to 8 on east.
DM games are out for me I have tryed but one phone call and I have to drop out.
CDQs are the same and LORE CDQ is just more time I dont have.
Layo is for players who have hours of RL they can put into a PC.
I think i have been here for about as 18 mouths,
Yes I have had 8 PCS 3 main ones
Rosa, Mille and Spugly.
Mille's locked in CDQ hell.
Spuglys looking at the 9tht to 10 level hill
So I play Rose which is fun when she hits the hill Ill drop her and make a new PC.
I ahve done all the level 1 to 7 quests 8 times each with RP and each was fun.
What Im getting at is, when I play PnP 4 hours of good RP = some thing for your PC, an object, level, life event.
4 hours of layo can be two trips for iron, a chat to ozy, Helping some down the red mines and a lot of walking about.
at then end your 0.01% closer to level 10 and 400 coin richer which you pay out in healing kits an the like.
Playing a lower level PC means 4 hours = a level or 1/3 1/4 of the way to a level.
My weeks gameing is not a pointless act, that RP meant some thing to the life of my PC.
I love RP thats what I do, ask any one about my PCs, I dont patrenice new-bes I help, I dont stunt RP I join in, and I start RP if every one is standing arould looking bord in Hlint I will kick some thing off. Becosue I love RP, read my logs.
Now I know the wall is there and is there for a good reson i feel a lot better, I will stop worry that it was some how my playing that was lacking.
As a low level player who only adds a small amount to the Layo Pie I still think you guys do a grate job, GM team and the big players who put in the hours.
Humm
My be I should start a low level group who only play levels 1 to 9.
what you think.
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I guess if you want to stay within levels 1-9, its fine.
Next time, I seee your characters, I'll look you up :).
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well..the best way to get pass this wall is stick to one character for awhile, that gets you further plus your character will get well known to others and they would gladly take him/her along for a trip somewhere. xp isnt everything but i understand that it ticks you off when you cant get somewhere cause you get absolutely pummeled. ive been there, done that, but in the end you will finally get there. so advice from a friend...stick to a character ot two and keep meeting people for a good adventure.