The World of Layonara
NWN Discussions and Suggestions => NWN Ideas, Suggestions, Requests => Topic started by: Hellblazer on October 17, 2006, 10:38:39 PM
-
I like that idea of breakable equipement. Not only does it give realisme to the game, but it also give more job oportunities to the armor, weapons crafters, woods crafter and tailors. As it is, I have this guild guarb that i wear almost all the time, even in combat. I would imagine that after a combat of being sliced and buldge, it would have a lot of tear and in such would need to be changed.
I wonder how extensive adding a count down to an equipement would be hard to make. Talking of lower marks, the 1d8 and such going down every 10 points of the weapons, armor and equipement, untill it finaly breaks. For armor and shields it would be the ac
A way to do this is. If the weapon hits the flesh it doesnt receive damage, but if it hits a shields, armor or the other weapons as being blocked, then it would receive a point of damage. Hitting Golems would result in the same kind of damage, and when your weapons IE.: Katana, that has 1d10, receive 10 points in damage, it would go down to 1d9 and so on. And the oposite for your amor and shiled if you get hit or block a hit, it would receive a point in damage, after 10 points it would lose some ac.
Repairing the sword could be possible but to an extent. if your at 1d5 and decide to repair the sword it would only be able to be put back at 1d8 maximum on a perfect dice roll and after that it would be 1d6, 1d4 untill finaly it breaks. Same for armor and shields.
Critical hits would make more damage up to masive critical that, if you hit a stronger shields or sword, that your sword is, you would break your sword in combat or vice versa, if your shield is lower than your foes sword it would break your shield.
As for the new legendary weapons you guys are planning, it would have a considerably higher hit points to it and would be stronger to. Meaning that instead of taking 10 hit points to downgrade it it coul be 40 or 50.
I think that if it is possible, this would give a new insite of, take care of your equipement and your equipement will take care of you.
-
I've seen a similar system on another server (Narc's 3.5 Adventure Games). It contributed heavily to lag, and didn't work all that well.
I would personally be against a system like this, not just because of the hit it would give the server, but also because it would make having unique, high-quality items* virtually pointless, as after two or three tough battles they'd be dust.
*Unique for the character, as well as high-quality for the character. For example, Pyyran's Coldfire (an Iron Rapier with Frost II and a Flame visual), while not technically unique, has been an important RP point for him for a long time. Losing such a weapon (at a total list cost of about 6000gp for the iron weapon and Elemental II) would be devastating not just to the character, but to myself as well. According to your currently suggested system, Coldfire would shatter after a decent fencing match. Even according to Narc's (which was based on time) it would fall apart after I finished with my hiatus while I studied for Finals. That would take a lot of the fun out of a fight, for me.
-
well that depends,
See if you take for granted that the rapier has a 1d8 ( i think) then you have a minimum of 80 hits with it (8 times 10 points) but those damage point would only be calculated if you swings hits, the armor or is blocked by the shields or sword. the 10 points is only a suggestion it could actualy be 30 points before your weapon would lose a d1 to it effeciency.
so lets keep the 10 points for the purpose of the example.
you get in a battle and you get blocked 30 times, that means that your wepon went from 1d8 to 1d5 (still 50 points of damage to it). After the fight you get your friend the weapon crafter to repair your sword and it goes back to 1d8, because he was lucky and he made a perfect roll. Now your back to 80 hit points, still only using 10 hp as a example. BUt if he didnt get a perfect roll and it would get to 1d7 it would never go back to 1d8 no matter the number of repairs you would put to it.
Now unless you are realy careless and that you dont take care of your equipement, which would sound wrong from what you just said about that sword, you would strive to get it fix as many time as possible for it to be always sharp and true.
this example didnt take into account th diferent type of metals. So here is what I am thinking.
Copper would get 10 points per d1 bronze being a composite would get 20 per d1 Iron :30 per d1 adamantium 50 per d1 ect
Elemantal enchantment giving special abilities to the weapons would not help in its durability but the silver or mithrill would.
Silver 1: 5 per d1 silver 2: 10 silver 3: 15 silver 4: 20
mitrhill 1:10 mithrill 2: 20 mithrill 3: 30 mithrill 4: 40
So let say that you have a Iron rapier with a silver 2 on it. Knowing that the iron rapier has 1d8 that gives it a durability of 240 hit points plus and extra 80 for the silver 2 coating for a total of 320 hits points (armor hits, shields and sword blocking) before it shaters. I realy dont think you would actualy get that amount of damage in one single trip unless you're realy unlucky and all your hits gets blocked. Remember that nto all foes wears aromor and wield shields.
Now I dont know for the lag issue..
-
This is something that has been in consideration for quite some time now. Clearly, it is a major, major shift and takes a lot of support items and services to do correctly. Most likely, this will happen at some point and in some form. I can't really comment on when or what form such a system will take, because it is at best loosely defined.
-
Ah good. does you plans also includes armor and shields deterioration?
-
Armor, shields, weapons, gloves, helmets....Basically anything that can fatigue.
-
nice.
-
DAoC had a system in place for both item decay, item repair, and limits on levels. You could equip an item of higher level than you were supposed to wear, but because it was more complicated and powerful than you should have, it decayed much faster.
If items can decay, than items should be repairable. And how would this affect quest rewards and other unique items?
-
It would be possible to repair items. Some items would be more "special" than others and either not degrade at all or degrade so slowly as to be nearly irrelevant..while others might be nearly disposable in their ability to withstand stress. Repairs would probably require money and resources...and likely a specialist of some kind to perform the repair. And no, that specialist would not be a PC crafter.
Again though, these are just some conceptual things we've considered, and should not be construed as absolute by any stretch.
-
The way I'd do it would be that on a critical fumble (ie an attack roll of 1) would damage a weapon to a degree based on the material it is composed of.
On the other side, if a character gets hit by a critical from an opponent a random number is generated to depict whether is was armor/helm/shield/gloves that was effected and that item would recieve a certain number of damage based on its make-up.
Thats my opinion.
Cheers,
Polak76
-
Polak, on Layonara creatures do not deal critical hits on characters due to the server difficulty settings, but yeah you could get the same effects you suggested if said creatures eventually roll 20 on their attack rolls.
-
I like the idea and I know if the Team says they are and have been considering it then it will be good. Look forward to it.
Maybe save using the extra unique sword for the most special of combat :) I wouldn't use it on just any goblin. Repairing is good as it would also use gold perhaps. And Weapon smiths would be able to earn gold for the services.
Etin
-
Etinfall - 10/18/2006 8:24 PM And Weapon smiths would be able to earn gold for the services. Etin
Actually, no.
If and when we put something like this into place, part of the idea would be to drain gold from the economy. If PC weapon/armor crafters had the means to do these repairs, then the gold would simply shift, not drain. For this reason, repairs would likely be handled through an NPC or device of some kind and possibly through kits that can be purchased though have less of an effect.
-
Just as good. The NPC crafters would make money ;) I am all for draining the economy of gold. Seeing as I have so little as it is :) don't need gold to sllep under a tree.
-
Like Diablo I and II 8)
But... that means nothing, this is so cool, if used correctly, some items, cannot break, etc. As well, unique items, exceptional, etc, thats a good idea too, when the item is more rare, more durability, or, some item good for lvl req. that breaks fast. Not a bad idea.
-
To make a point about the effects suggested...
You can't drop a damage category from a d6 (rapier damage - gods, I wish it was a d8 ;) ) to a d5. While, technically, you can generate a random number between 1 and 5 using a random number generator, 1d5 isn't coded (to my knowledge) in the system. Giving it a -1 to damage is possible, certainly, but... The damage categories coded in are 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12, 2d4, 2d6, and I believe 2d8. (Note: I have no real working knowledge of the way the game runs; I have only experience with what I've seen in-game and in the toolset.)
Another thing. Mithril is a weapon material like iron, copper, or bronze. You're thinking of a titanium enhancement.
Anyhow, this is definately something to think about for V3, but my main concern remains LAG... Though the impact on the economy is also to be considered.
Those folks with lots and lots and lots and lots of gold will still be paying the same amount for repairs as those with virtually no gold (assuming the same repairs). The poor get poorer, while the rich don't feel much of a hit.
-
Stephen_Zuckerman - 10/21/2006 3:43 PM You're thinking of a titanium enhancement.
Yes thats right, thank you
Stephen_Zuckerman - 10/21/2006 3:43 PMThe poor get poorer, while the rich don't feel much of a hit.
I'm sorry to say but that's life.
-
First off guys, let's have some faith in your GM and Development teams. Things like the economy and how it affects all players will be duly considered and given the attention which is appropriate. Something like this is obviously a major system, and we'll do our best to design and implement it according to what is best for the world as a whole. So please, let's keep the doom-saying to a minimum right now, OK? :)
To say "That's life"...well, that's a bit harsh, but it is to some extent. That the rich will feel a lesser hit than the poor. That's just a matter of percentages, and we can't do much about that. One could say the same thing for anything in this world that costs money. The rich can buy Level IV enhancements all day long and shrug it off. The poor have to work to get enough money for one. There's really nothing we want to do or can do about that.
-
-
Naturally, lag is a concern, and if it causes too much lag, we won't put it in, especially if it causes lag in the critical path of combat. Again...we'll consider every conceivable angle before implementing something like this.
At this exact moment, such a thing is not on our "high priority" list, but rather on our "significant and nice to have" list. That, of course, is subject to change at any given millisecond. :)
-
I so dont like the idea of uber expensive items breaking (unless you do something dumb like wack a vein too many times). But if this was put into effect then the prices for armor and swords would be affected the same way say arrows and bolts are. They a perishable items and thus prices would have to drop to reflect that. One of the reasons for the high price of swords, armor, shields is that they dont go away once they are made, so if there was a time limit or whatever method for the life span of these items then the prices should drop to reflect that. Lots of gold would still move around, the idea of breakable items would by no means remove more gold from the system as a matter of fact it would put more gold into the system. Now the idea of getting repairs through a NPC crafter (that would put the item back to 100%) that would take a lot of gold out of the system. The higher the quality of item the higher the coast to fix it. This would drain gold more from the top then the bottom.
Costs could be based on the lens value and metal/wood/skin of the item:
Copper, Hickory 10% of item value to fix
Bronze 20% of the item value to fix
Iron, Oak 30% of the item value to fix
Platty 40% of the item value to fix
Addy, Mahogany 50% of the item value to fix
Mithril, Yew 75% of the item value to fix
Dropped rare items would cause a bit of a issue but they can be mapped to some type.
-
It's important to note...breakage will not just happen. What will happen first is the weapon/item itself will get "fatigued" or whatever term we assign and that will make it less effective or something like that. Only after an extended period of use with a fatigued weapon or whatever will it actually break.
In other words, weapons shouldn't be randomly breaking in combat, for example. Also, higher-end items would be more durable than low-end items.
-
At this time are you going with the items eventually breaking... poof gone?
or damaged to the point that they cant be equipped untill repaired? And if it goes that far it cost a lot more to fix than normal repairs.
Id hate to be on Underdark map 78 and have my good and maybe only blade go poof cause it's taken so much damage since we set out. So the idea of it becoming un equipable is more appealing.
-
*points up*
Items won't suddenly break. They'll degrade. Whatever mechanism that takes place once an item is degraded or unusable hasn't really been decided. I kind of doubt items will be "poof, gone" as you say either. Rather they'll be useless or really quite uneffective...or possibly unequipable.
-
I know they wont go from pristine to broken and gone I saw that.... but some of thoese underdark trips can last 6 hours + and with a TON of fights.... my concern was leaving Arabel with a pristine weapon, shield, etc etc... and 5 hours later on the 78th Underdark map your item has degraded to the point of breaking and is lost forever..... so I thought the un equipable method would sit better with people.... We already have people afraid to adventure because of tokens... Let's not add a fear of loosing gear it took RL years to earn to that I say!
EDIT - But it say its damaged to the point that you can no longer equip it... at least you have it still and if you can afford it pay top have it refurbished to it's pristine condition.... this service (bringing an item back from unusable) should be more expensive than basic repairs too.
-
Guardian 452 - 10/30/2006 2:56 PM I know they wont go from pristine to broken and gone I saw that.... but some of thoese underdark trips can last 6 hours + and with a TON of fights.... my concern was leaving Arabel with a pristine weapon, shield, etc etc... and 5 hours later on the 78th Underdark map your item has degraded to the point of breaking and is lost forever..... so I thought the un equipable method would sit better with people.... We already have people afraid to adventure because of tokens... Let's not add a fear of loosing gear it took RL years to earn to that I say!
That is exactly what I am saying will not happen. People won't live in fear of their hard-earned weapons and armor evaporating in a cloud of metal dust or wood chips from one single long outing. The last time we talked about this, the intent was not to make people fear losing their weapons, especially the very valuable ones, but rather to present some gradual degradation that can be managed through repairs.
I think it is very unlikely that a broken weapon will be lost forever. If indeed it breaks due to neglecting it, there will probably be a repair process, though probably an expensive one.
-
so the perishable aspect is addressed. But what about G-452's thought? Some trips are long and filled with lots-o-fights. If the possability for a item to degrade during a single trip exists then PCs will carry multi high end weapons, armors, and shields. This will only add to server lag. I can see players figuring out exactly how many hits a item can take before it losses any pluses and packing spares of everything to make sure they are always at the best they can be.
-
Idea: Whetstones.
On a long, long trip to the Underdark, which lasts sixish hours realtime, your characters are spending a MINIMUM of four days underground. Assuming you actually camp at any point in there... Well, you do the math. If you're fighting hard, constantly, for four days solid, you're going to have some wear and tear. Major wear and tear.
What does a warrior do with his blade as soon as camp is pitched? He pulls out a whetstone and sharpens it, helping with at least some of the dulling and chipping of the edge.
So, have a flint-and-steel like item that would restore a small number of lost durability points. Or perhaps give it charges, and have it restore points equal to the charges you expend (with a modifier for weapon material).
-
Nice Idea!
-
Can we please stop predicting doom before this is even fully designed?
Where did the idea come from that a weapon, armor, shield or whatever could go from pristine to scrap in one trip?
The interval of degradation and the mechanics behind it are something which need to be worked out, but I'm fairly certain that if weapons were made to be that fragile, the system would quickly sap the fun out of adventuring, which is something we don't want to do.
Whetstones are a little narrow of a concept, as they don't address non-edged weapons, armor (one does not sharpen leather, for example) or other non-weapon items.. I believe above I have mentioned two methods of item repair: NPCs and repair kits. The latter can be taken along for field repairs...and they're not as good as having an NPC do it, but it can stave off the effects of degradation over long trips.
Again, this has not been fully designed or balanced, so please, let's not predict it's failure just yet and have some confidence that we'll work out the correct balance for Layonara.
-
Wasn't trying to kill the idea in any way shape or form. Its the closest thing we will have to realism.... if the items just go unuseable that doesnt get them out of circulation and make more business for crafters... but it's certainly a start.
The combination of NPC and "field kits" (several kinds for different types of repairs) are awesome ideas... even better if the "field kits" are only craftable thru CNR!!! Then every craftsman who sells their goods can also push these "field kits" and keep money flowing in!
EDIT Example Field Kits.... Whetstones for blades, patches of cloth and leather with a needle & string for leather and clothing items ... etc...
-
Guardian 452 - 10/30/2006 4:31 PM The combination of NPC and "field kits" (several kinds for different types of repairs) are awesome ideas... even better if the "field kits" are only craftable thru CNR!!! Then every craftsman who sells their goods can also push these "field kits" and keep money flowing in!
Um...probably the kits would not be craftable, because we want that gold out of the system, not shifted around the system.
-
*shrug* either way.... I was just thinking of ways to help all of us whiney crafters ;)
-
No predictions of doom just helping to flesh out the idea. I for one think it can be a great added item both for cutting down on gold in the system (although is there really too much gold in the system? most of the people I talk to in game are on the poor side) and having some fun RP around it. I often RP that I am working on my armor or weapons.
-
I'd like to know if anything has been developed for this?
-
For NWN? No. For the MMO? Yes.
-
thanks