The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: ShiffDrgnhrt on February 17, 2007, 11:55:04 AM
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I'm wondering about what the ultimate weapon would be In Layo. And I mean as a straight, unenchanted blade(except keen). Meaning I wonder what the best, plain forged, weapon would be if combined with the feets , Improved Critical (http://nwn.layonara.com/Ki%20Critical>Ki), , and Keen Edge (as a weapon property, already built in [ex Keen Greatsword]) (http://nwn.layonara.com/Overwhelming%20Critical>Overwhelming). Any and all ideas are welcome, as well as if something even better is possible.
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A copper rapier in the hands of an epic-level Duelist.
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Now why would you say that?
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Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/17/2007 12:04 PM
A copper rapier in the hands of an epic-level Duelist.
or a coper scimitar in the hands of an epic-level WM
my reason. 10-20 crit range, X3 crit, overwhelming crit add mroe damage, ad if you got devistating crit, any roll 10+ would be a death threat. thsi is a strenth only build btw.
The rapier same reason, though i stick with WM, maybe do WM/Duelist, though this would be for a Dex build not a str build.
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My answer would be common sense.
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I wouldn't go Weapon Master/Duelist, because that would just weaken the Duelist levels... And no point in getting Mithril over Copper because the damage bonus from Enhancement is overwritten by Precise Strike damage. +3 to hit isn't that much...
You're right about the threat range and the crit multiplier; I just feel that the extra Precise Strike damage on every hit, as well as the DEX and INT to AC are worth more.
Let's say you take a 10 Rogue/30 Duelist.
Sneak Attack +5d6
Evasion
Improved Uncanny Dodge
Improved Evasion or Crippling Strike
Whirlwind Attack
Acrobatic Attack +8
Grace +12
Elaborate Parry +30
Canny Defense adds double INT bonus.
BAB would be +27/+22/+17/+12.
For feats, we'd assume all of the Duelist Prerequisites, plus Improved Critical (rapier), and assuming they didn't get Combat Prowess.
The attack stats for the rapier (copper rapier, totally unenchanted) would be
Rapier +28/+23/+18/+13 (plus DEX bonus on each attack).
3d6 (plus STR bonus) 15-20/x2
Now, if you tried Acrobatic Attack, you'd probably kill anything you aimed at.
Looking at a WM with a scimitar, though, the WM is more suited to destroying things, but honestly... *Grins.* Dex-based fighters are better.
As to why I chose Rogue over Fighter? Sneak attack and special abilities, not to mention the usefulness of INT. Also, there's more of a focus on skills and such than armor or shield proficiencies, neither of which benefit the Duelist.
EDIT: IDii's is better.
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Can you even add keen to a weapon permanently?
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Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/17/2007 12:34 PM
I wouldn't go Weapon Master/Duelist, because that would just weaken the Duelist levels... And no point in getting Mithril over Copper because the damage bonus from Enhancement is overwritten by Precise Strike damage. +3 to hit isn't that much...
You're right about the threat range and the crit multiplier; I just feel that the extra Precise Strike damage on every hit, as well as the DEX and INT to AC are worth more.
Let's say you take a 10 Rogue/30 Duelist.
Sneak Attack +5d6
Evasion
Improved Uncanny Dodge
Improved Evasion or Crippling Strike
Whirlwind Attack
Acrobatic Attack +8
Grace +12
Elaborate Parry +30
Canny Defense adds double INT bonus.
BAB would be +27/+22/+17/+12.
For feats, we'd assume all of the Duelist Prerequisites, plus Improved Critical (rapier), and assuming they didn't get Combat Prowess.
The attack stats for the rapier (copper rapier, totally unenchanted) would be
Rapier +28/+23/+18/+13 (plus DEX bonus on each attack).
3d6 (plus STR bonus) 15-20/x2
Now, if you tried Acrobatic Attack, you'd probably kill anything you aimed at.
Looking at a WM with a scimitar, though, the WM is more suited to destroying things, but honestly... *Grins.* Dex-based fighters are better.
As to why I chose Rogue over Fighter? Sneak attack and special abilities, not to mention the usefulness of INT. Also, there's more of a focus on skills and such than armor or shield proficiencies, neither of which benefit the Duelist.
EDIT: IDii's is better.
What is the difference between their AC in the best armor they can both wear?
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Well Pyyran - in a one on one fight a weapon master with a scimitar will win, your sneak attacks won't do much good.
At level 7 weapon master his crit rate becomes 12-20 without keen, 10-20 with and the multiplier x5... that's more than 70 damage every second attack with a normal copper scimitar.
Now at level 33/7 fighter/wm He'd have devestating critical :P meaning you'd roll a fort save every second attack or die, and even if you manage there's still the critical + overwhelming critical to deal with - which is just as bad as Acrobatic Attack.
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no keen is only through spells.
keen perm weapons would be to unbalanced just like perm haste.
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hmm gotta counter Pyyran.
i don't know mucha bout DUelist, but i know A LOT about WM. soemthign like a 5 fighter 5 Rogue 30 WM, would have rediculous High AB, and all the skilsl needed such as UMD and Tumble. With the AC being onyl a little less. Also, becuase they are STR base, they do more damage than a Dex based. so while the Dex will be slightly harder to hit, the str wm would hit harder and better.
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In a straight fight, the Duelist would win against the WM. Why? Two words.
Parry Mode.
They would get the same number of attacks... Let's think about what a 10 Rogue/30 Duelist would have for a Parry check.
Max Ranks 43 + Elaborate Parry 30 + Dex somewhere around +14ish.
That's already +87.
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Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/17/2007 3:15 PM
In a straight fight, the Duelist would win against the WM. Why? Two words.
Parry Mode.
They would get the same number of attacks... Let's think about what a 10 Rogue/30 Duelist would have for a Parry check.
Max Ranks 43 + Elaborate Parry 30 + Dex somewhere around +14ish.
That's already +87.
but does he hit? and woudl he always succeede? diciplin is a str based skill as well. by 40 the WM's str could be rediculously high cuz of greater str. and the base would be 43, then he could wear discp giving items. the discp could end up equaling the Parry. adn that puts the WM up again.
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Jearick Hgar - 2/18/2007 12:26 AM
Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/17/2007 3:15 PM
In a straight fight, the Duelist would win against the WM. Why? Two words.
Parry Mode.
They would get the same number of attacks... Let's think about what a 10 Rogue/30 Duelist would have for a Parry check.
Max Ranks 43 + Elaborate Parry 30 + Dex somewhere around +14ish.
That's already +87.
but does he hit? and woudl he always succeede? diciplin is a str based skill as well. by 40 the WM's str could be rediculously high cuz of greater str. and the base would be 43, then he could wear discp giving items. the discp could end up equaling the Parry. adn that puts the WM up again.
Dont forget expertice and the dicipline that will make him almost imune too sneak attacks and such :-)
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Discipline has absolutely no effect on sneak attacks or parrying attempts, only on Knockdowns, Disarms, and Called Shots. Expertise only adds to AC. As to whether or not the Duelist would always hit, it doesn't matter. The WM would NEVER hit, at least while the Duelist was in Parry Mode. (Excepting Critica- Oh.) The Duelist's probable lack of Discipline ranks wouldn't matter, as if a Knockdown, Called Shot, or Disarm attempt is parried, the character doesn't have to resist it. And let's not forget that this Duelist would probably have a Swashbuckler's Sabre at the least, as well as Gloves of the Scouts or even Greater Gloves of Swordplay. Critical hits. Rats. Forgot about those pesky things. XD Yeah, WM would win.
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In my experience parry doesn't always actually work. I found that usually it only works on 3-4 attacks per round and the rest usually hit no matter how high the parry, although it may be due to problems with the game not being unable to keep up with it or something...
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Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/17/2007 3:15 PM
In a straight fight, the Duelist would win against the WM. Why? Two words.
Parry Mode.
They would get the same number of attacks... Let's think about what a 10 Rogue/30 Duelist would have for a Parry check.
Max Ranks 43 + Elaborate Parry 30 + Dex somewhere around +14ish.
That's already +87.
lol, easily.
Switch on a bow - you dont attak - the moment you leave parry mode switch back to weapons.
It's been tried a lot in PVP servers but parry mode isn't really great.. needless to mention that your counter attacks wont even hit half of the times - and that a weapon master can use parry mode as well and then youd just stand there staring at eachother.
And at best on a dex based person you do what.. 30 damage? :p out of like 400 hp of a fighter level 40? thats assuming he has no Con bonus or toughness.
All a weapon master needs is 1 dev critical to kill you :O and his AB is much more higher than yours (All those bonus feats go into extra str... thats quite a lot of AB without considering the WM considerable bonus, and the fact his base class is fighter and not rogue)
The reason why sneak attacks are useless in a one on one fight is because hes not a shadowdancer, he wont get to hide and use sneaks - if he chugs a potion to invis himself - well, assuming that potions are ok, you just count it with a potion of heal or hell, just gnomish lenses.
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Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/18/2007 12:15 AM
In a straight fight, the Duelist would win against the WM. Why? Two words.
Parry Mode.
They would get the same number of attacks... Let's think about what a 10 Rogue/30 Duelist would have for a Parry check.
Max Ranks 43 + Elaborate Parry 30 + Dex somewhere around +14ish.
That's already +87.
parry is bugged + you cant parry a natural 20 (but you will parry the 10-19 if the wm's crit range is so far), I tried using parry in the arena and it always end the same way, you parry 3 out of 4 attack. the second attack always slip though. I tried using parry on Maraliths (6 armed demon) seems it simple cant handle it fast enough. I get max 1 reposte attack on them. better add my parry is 70+ so its not because i dont roll high enough. So if parry worked the WM would have 5% chance to hit (rolling a 20) unless he duel wielded (to many attacks to parry)
besides from all that the post it about the best weapon not a build.
there isn't any clear choise as to what weapon is the best since monster have different resistance. go with what you think would be fun instead is my advise
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A critical hit only succeeds if it.. well.. hits. Anything excepting a natural 20 is not an automatic hit in most systems, although I will admit I don't know how Layonara handles this particular topic - or, for that matter, Neverwinter Nights.
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Why would a Fighter/WM level 40 have troubles hitting? its the build with the highest BAB after Arcane Archer
And of course as Angela mentioned - 2 extra attacks from dual wielding with improved two weapon fighting is enough to deal 1 crit for almost certain :p
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*he reads up and shrugs*
I'm giving the scythe a try. I never used the weapon, see what happens.
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I like how this turned from a discussion of weapons, to an argument as to whats better, an Epic WM or an Epic Duelist.
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ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/17/2007 9:21 PM
I like how this turned from a discussion of weapons, to an argument as to whats better, an Epic WM or an Epic Duelist.
you asked what the best weapon was. Stephen said rapier in the hadns of a duelist and i said scimitar in the hands of a WM. and we both gave you our reasons.
if you don't want specific builds to bring out the weapon then here's a chart.
Best damage: scythe
Best crit range: Scim or rapier
Best all around: Bastard sword or katana
Reasons: Scythes can do rediculous amounts of damage. you don't want buidls so i wont give them. but i have seen builds than can get a scythe crit damage in the thousands. they also do 2d6 damage, that's a minimum of 2 damage, and a max of 12, without str bonus, bufs, or crit. then on top of tha. on top of that they are two handed, so you +str + half o your str to damage. continueing on they are both slashing and peircing damage. so if someone has +agaisnt slashing then it switches to peircing and the bonuses are ignored.
Scims and rapiers have 12-20 crit range, 10-20 with keen edge. nothing else needed
Bastard and katana do 1d10 damage, which is good for a one handed wep, don't think any other wep does mroe than that. plus they have a 14-20 crit range with improved crit. 12-20 with keen edge
One might argue that the dwarven battle axe is better, cuz it does 1d10 and has X3 crit instead of X2, but it's crit range is 20, 19-20 with improved crit, and 18-20 with keen edge. big difference.
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Scythes are 2d4/x4. That's a max of 16 on a crit in the hands of someone with no STR bonus. It counts as a slashing weapon for the purposes of Keen. In the hands of a WM, that goes to 19-20/x5, and 17-20/x5 with keen edge.
Scimitars and rapiers have 18-20/x2, but the rapier is piercing rather than slashing.
The bastard sword/katana has 19-20/x2 with 1d10 damage, and it's slashing.
3.5 rapiers have 17-20 crit range, and are therefore better (correct me if I'm misremembering).
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Well Wouldnt a Great sword be better then *a scythe*? Its does 2d6, a 19-20 range, and has a 2x crit, so 24 max damage. With the feats improved Crit, and Ki Crit if a WM,* and keen*, that should turn into... a 13-20 crit range and... 3x? plus 3d6 from Over Crit? Is that right? Cause if it is, i thats what my WM is gonna end up with at some point
*I was kind of aiming at figuring out what the best weapon in the hands of the ultimate warrior class build would be. You guys supplied the build nicely enough, but in the end? What do you think would do the most damage?
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Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/18/2007 1:35 AM
Scythes are 2d4/x4. That's a max of 16 on a crit in the hands of someone with no STR bonus. It counts as a slashing weapon for the purposes of Keen. In the hands of a WM, that goes to 19-20/x5, and 17-20/x5 with keen edge.
Scimitars and rapiers have 18-20/x2, but the rapier is piercing rather than slashing.
The bastard sword/katana has 19-20/x2 with 1d10 damage, and it's slashing.
3.5 rapiers have 17-20 crit range, and are therefore better (correct me if I'm misremembering).
No Rapiers are still 18-20 in 3.5.
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Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/17/2007 10:35 PM
Scythes are 2d4/x4. That's a max of 16 on a crit in the hands of someone with no STR bonus. It counts as a slashing weapon for the purposes of Keen. In the hands of a WM, that goes to 19-20/x5, and 17-20/x5 with keen edge.
Scimitars and rapiers have 18-20/x2, but the rapier is piercing rather than slashing.
The bastard sword/katana has 19-20/x2 with 1d10 damage, and it's slashing.
3.5 rapiers have 17-20 crit range, and are therefore better (correct me if I'm misremembering).
you pretty much restated what i said, i wa sonyl wrong with the scythe, thought it did 2d6 not 2d4. stillt eh scythe is uber powerful damage wise.
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ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/17/2007 12:55 PM I'm wondering about what the ultimate weapon would be In Layo. And I mean as a straight, unenchanted blade(except keen). Meaning I wonder what the best, plain forged, weapon would be if combined with the feets , Improved Critical (http://nwn.layonara.com/Ki%20Critical>Ki), , and Keen Edge (as a weapon property, already built in [ex Keen Greatsword]) (http://nwn.layonara.com/Overwhelming%20Critical>Overwhelming). Any and all ideas are welcome, as well as if something even better is possible.
You will not find a weapon with the keen propertry on Layonara. Well, there are 2 or 3 on the whole server but all in all my above statement has good odds. Edit: oh and the only reason scythe is better numbers wise than the scimitar for a str based weapon master is because WM feats ADD to crit range rather than MULTIPLYING the original range. The two handed str bonus to dmg and higher base dmg die are offset by the lack of a shield.
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It is, but it makes the same sacrifice that Greatswords do... Defense.
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ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/17/2007 10:43 PM
Well Wouldnt a Great sword be better then *a scythe*? Its does 2d6, a 19-20 range, and has a 2x crit, so 24 max damage. With the feats improved Crit, and Ki Crit if a WM,* and keen*, that should turn into... a 13-20 crit range and... 3x? plus 3d6 from Over Crit? Is that right? Cause if it is, i thats what my WM is gonna end up with at some point
*I was kind of aiming at figuring out what the best weapon in the hands of the ultimate warrior class build would be. You guys supplied the build nicely enough, but in the end? What do you think would do the most damage?
the most Damage is Scythe by far. with jsut 18 str, thats +6 damage with the scythe. so your doing 8-14 dmg, then add weapon focus 9-15, so at level 1 you could do 9-15 damage. then you add crit. and that's 36-45 damage. adn that's jsut level 1 with a copepr scythe, and int he hands of a human. level 20 WM half orc could easily have a base of 24 str could have two +2 to strs, so 28 str, with weapon focus, and a addy scythe with 1d6 or 1d8 fire damage. put that all out. so you got 2-8(base) + 13(str and two handed) + 2(encahntment) +1d8(fire) +1(weapon spec). that's a min of 19 damage, and a max of 32 no crit. throw in the WM crit that's a min of 91 max of 128. that's not addign allt eh thigns a mage can do to you and your scythe. as far as weps go, scythe bar far doe sthe most damage.
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Jearick Hgar - 2/18/2007 12:24 AM
ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/17/2007 10:43 PM
Well Wouldnt a Great sword be better then *a scythe*? Its does 2d6, a 19-20 range, and has a 2x crit, so 24 max damage. With the feats improved Crit, and Ki Crit if a WM,* and keen*, that should turn into... a 13-20 crit range and... 3x? plus 3d6 from Over Crit? Is that right? Cause if it is, i thats what my WM is gonna end up with at some point
*I was kind of aiming at figuring out what the best weapon in the hands of the ultimate warrior class build would be. You guys supplied the build nicely enough, but in the end? What do you think would do the most damage?
the most Damage is Scythe by far. with jsut 18 str, thats +6 damage with the scythe. so your doing 8-14 dmg, then add weapon focus 9-15, so at level 1 you could do 9-15 damage. then you add crit. and that's 36-45 damage. adn that's jsut level 1 with a copepr scythe, and int he hands of a human. level 20 WM half orc could easily have a base of 24 str could have two +2 to strs, so 28 str, with weapon focus, and a addy scythe with 1d6 or 1d8 fire damage. put that all out. so you got 2-8(base) + 13(str and two handed) + 2(encahntment) +1d8(fire) +1(weapon spec). that's a min of 19 damage, and a max of 32 no crit. throw in the WM crit that's a min of 91 max of 128. that's not addign allt eh thigns a mage can do to you and your scythe. as far as weps go, scythe bar far doe sthe most damage.
Weapon focus doesn't add damage... and weapon spec adds +2 damage. And you cant take it till level 6 fighter.
I mean, you're 100% right about the scythe, just not quite the right reason why.
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I've always wanted to play a scythe char cause they look cool but never really will because ooc they're most often used in tasteless ways by tasteless people.
Unless you have a good IC reason to go with the scythe.. go with the halberd. It's way more tasteful, still uncommon, almost as good numbers wise, looks cool too, and has another special perk above the scythe. Plus pole arms would be way more common if this were real than they are IG.
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Talan Va'lash - 2/17/2007 11:27 PM
Jearick Hgar - 2/18/2007 12:24 AM
ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/17/2007 10:43 PM
Well Wouldnt a Great sword be better then *a scythe*? Its does 2d6, a 19-20 range, and has a 2x crit, so 24 max damage. With the feats improved Crit, and Ki Crit if a WM,* and keen*, that should turn into... a 13-20 crit range and... 3x? plus 3d6 from Over Crit? Is that right? Cause if it is, i thats what my WM is gonna end up with at some point
*I was kind of aiming at figuring out what the best weapon in the hands of the ultimate warrior class build would be. You guys supplied the build nicely enough, but in the end? What do you think would do the most damage?
the most Damage is Scythe by far. with jsut 18 str, thats +6 damage with the scythe. so your doing 8-14 dmg, then add weapon focus 9-15, so at level 1 you could do 9-15 damage. then you add crit. and that's 36-45 damage. adn that's jsut level 1 with a copepr scythe, and int he hands of a human. level 20 WM half orc could easily have a base of 24 str could have two +2 to strs, so 28 str, with weapon focus, and a addy scythe with 1d6 or 1d8 fire damage. put that all out. so you got 2-8(base) + 13(str and two handed) + 2(encahntment) +1d8(fire) +1(weapon spec). that's a min of 19 damage, and a max of 32 no crit. throw in the WM crit that's a min of 91 max of 128. that's not addign allt eh thigns a mage can do to you and your scythe. as far as weps go, scythe bar far doe sthe most damage.
Weapon focus doesn't add damage... and weapon spec adds +2 damage. And you cant take it till level 6 fighter.
I mean, you're 100% right about the scythe, just not quite the right reason why.
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I've always wanted to play a scythe char cause they look cool but never really will because ooc they're most often used in tasteless ways by tasteless people.
Unless you have a good IC reason to go with the scythe.. go with the halberd. It's way more tasteful, still uncommon, almost as good numbers wise, looks cool too, and has another special perk above the scythe. Plus pole arms would be way more common if this were real than they are IG.
i agree one hudnred percent. the weapon focus was a typo btw, meant weapon spec. and i'ms ure weapon spec only gives +1 damage, it's the nchantment bonus that gives +2.
But ya, I don't ahve any chars that use Scythes. I like to base my weapon on my char nto my char ont he weapon. Tath uses the bastar5d sword for the round bladed weapon graphic he calls a "ch'kra". Jearick Uses a rapier cuz it's the gentleman's weapon, and Demetri uses a Hammer cuz it's a good symbolic representation of thunder, and he'll sometimes use a flail for the representation of chaos. I've been kidn thinking of using a halfling axe thrower heh
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Weapon Specialization does indeed give +2 to damage for the given weapon.
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Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/17/2007 11:21 PM
It is, but it makes the same sacrifice that Greatswords do... Defense.
Halfgiant *grins*
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From a technical point of view this is an interesting discussion topic. That said I would like to discourage anyone from planning a character based upon it.
Layo is an RP server. Weapon and level choices should be based around the how your character develops in game and what happens to them. I know that on character creation you need to state a loose plan on what levels you intend to take, but i prefer to see in game events and actions determine the path of my character. Deciding that I will build X character with Y weapon because he will do Z damage at level can lead to rather mono-dimensional characters.
May favourite char is a Great-Axe wielding barbarian. She can do lots of damage. But she is hugely flawed with her AC. It is part of her. She rushes into battle with an AC of 19 (without buffs). 18 when raging. She has nearly permed, but it is her way and I try to be faithful to her and not changing her to do more damage or have a better AC I am still sad I had to change from a Maul to a greataxe (which does more damage) (due to inability to select feats for custom weapons). She looked fantastic with a thumping great Maul over her shoulder and was a very recognizable character.
So all I am saying is yes it is interesting to see the weapon and class permutations, but when it comes to Layo, let the character limit the build. Don't make the build limit the character.
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*he nods to karana*
My dwarf Jal, I planned on him to be as original as I could. A dwarf weapon master of the scyth I havent seen around, and with him being CN, it makes the RP very interesting, along with his dislike for most dwaves. So far he only leans towards like two dwarves, because they wernt drunk, or blabbered about ale and typical dwarven things. And he is into more cold logic than emotion. So this could turn interesting
With an iron scythe, he averages around 15dmg a hit, and I've gotten I think a 67 crit. Now I just need to find a weapons master to ask questions and RP :)
To the others, thanks for all the weapon specs and stats, very interesting read.
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hawklen - 2/18/2007 3:32 AM
*he nods to karana*
My dwarf Jal, I planned on him to be as original as I could. A dwarf weapon master of the scyth I havent seen around, and with him being CN, it makes the RP very interesting, along with his dislike for most dwaves. So far he only leans towards like two dwarves, because they wernt drunk, or blabbered about ale and typical dwarven things. And he is into more cold logic than emotion. So this could turn interesting
With an iron scythe, he averages around 15dmg a hit, and I've gotten I think a 67 crit. Now I just need to find a weapons master to ask questions and RP :)
To the others, thanks for all the weapon specs and stats, very interesting read.
Just because you use a scythe doesn't mean you have to take Weapon Master levels.
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No I dont. *shrugs* Its just different
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Ther parry mode can just parry equal amount of attacks that the characters have each round. If the character have four attacks every round but can only parry three it is bugged.
A weaponmaster in scimithar have a crit range of 13-20.. atleast mine do.. with a mage casting keen on it is 10-20.
Weaponmaster or duelist?
Weaponmaster is a damage fighter, duelist is an AC fighter. so its realy up to what kind ones wan't to play.
I would peroclaim that duelist is a bit better though due to their survavability..... extremly high AC... and not due to parry mode wich is often not even good against just one enemy. The double int AC modifyer bonus duelist gets at epic lvl its just insane!!!!!
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I say skip the dmg and make a 500hp dwarf instead ;)... thereby you dont have to think about evading the first 2 hellballs *coughs*
Everyone goes dmg, try something else - great fun for both fighting and rping
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lol.. aye Varka.. I hear ya ;)
here I also have an opinion on the original topic wich weapon (in combined with a class is the best)
weaponmaster wielding scythe or scimithar?
Scythe you get x5 crits instead of x4 wich isn't a tremendous boost.. (25% more damage)
With Scimithar you get x3 instead of x2 wich is a huge diferent.. (50% more damage)
If you would have an Scythe with keen property it would be more deadly (or a mage that is with you always and cast the spell keen edge on it :)
But if you don't I personally think that the crit range isn't good enough 17-20..
And finally.. if you are going to make a character with devestating crits scimithars/kukri or rapier is the obvious choice.. however on Layo I don't think that kind of built would be any good.. there are better feats to choose to get a well rounded fighter then invest all feats just to get dev crit..
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he wanted the ultimate weapond amage wise, damage wise te Scythe is capable of doing way more than the schimitar, but ultimately ya scim rocks, liek i said.
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Most Insane Damage is Ranger's, no way, on a 40th lvl ranger you can have up to 15 favored enemies, plus 2d6 from bane of enemies, plus str bonus if melee... and such, no way.
Anyway, i still love my Arcane Archer=))
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If looking at class/feat damage bonus and not focusing on the weapon there are divine damage one should go for.. smite evil and so forth.. With an extreme built one can get up to over 1000 in damage.. ;)
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Well, i've seen a build at Bioware's epic char build page, that deals more than 2000 damage in a crit... it's an smite, it can be used 3 times/ day... but.. its not that good, the hp... Str.... it's all sucky, the saves and damge rocks, only.
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I would agree with Varka on this one. Hitpoints and saves are just as important to most classes as the damage or effects they can dish out. Any weapon to someone strong enough to use it is going to deal a lot of damage. Looking for the ultimate weapon is just kind of silly, because there isn't one. The ultimate weapon, in my opinion, is the weapon your character decided suits them best.
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hawklen - 2/18/2007 2:32 AM
*he nods to karana*
My dwarf Jal, I planned on him to be as original as I could. A dwarf weapon master of the scyth I havent seen around, and with him being CN, it makes the RP very interesting, along with his dislike for most dwaves. So far he only leans towards like two dwarves, because they wernt drunk, or blabbered about ale and typical dwarven things. And he is into more cold logic than emotion. So this could turn interesting
With an iron scythe, he averages around 15dmg a hit, and I've gotten I think a 67 crit. Now I just need to find a weapons master to ask questions and RP :)
To the others, thanks for all the weapon specs and stats, very interesting read.
I have seen a good bit of WM using a scythe on layo in the 3 years I have been here. The half ogre Micheals comes to mind. He use to crit in the 200s all the time. It was nasty =P.
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This sounds more like a "Nice Screenshot Build" than to really have it in game... :P
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Having seen a scythe in the hands of a half-giant WM up close, let me tell you it's pretty darn nasty. Mikey would routinely; and I mean at level 7 WM about 30-40% of the time it seemed; hit for 150+ pts. of damage.
It was sick.
He told me (and this is straight out of my hindquarters, as I have not checked) that a falchion in the hands of a half-giant WM would be worse. But again, only repeating.
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Falchion would indeed be worse if the weaponmaster feats would work with the custom weapons.
Now just imagine if we enabled D&D hardcore difficulty and monsters could crit on players too. Take one of those greataxe-wielding fire giants for example, they hit for like 60 damage normally. You'd be looking at 200 damage crits every now and then.
I suppose we don't often think how easymode it is for the PCs here... hehe.
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Honora - 2/19/2007 1:23 PM Having seen a scythe in the hands of a half-giant WM up close, let me tell you it's pretty darn nasty. Mikey would routinely; and I mean at level 7 WM about 30-40% of the time it seemed; hit for 150+ pts. of damage. It was sick. He told me (and this is straight out of my hindquarters, as I have not checked) that a falchion in the hands of a half-giant WM would be worse. But again, only repeating.
If only it was possible to make the WM feats for the Custom Weapons, then yes it would be godlike. But, in the same rate, it would crit about as often as Lillian for only a little bit more damage.
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I'd like to see caster criticals. A caster get's the chance to roll after a succesfull spell penetration for a critical hit. Issac's would be just ugly.
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IDii - 2/19/2007 10:32 AM
Falchion would indeed be worse if the weaponmaster feats would work with the custom weapons.
Now just imagine if we enabled D&D hardcore difficulty and monsters could crit on players too. Take one of those greataxe-wielding fire giants for example, they hit for like 60 damage normally. You'd be looking at 200 damage crits every now and then.
I suppose we don't often think how easymode it is for the PCs here... hehe.
The monster's can't get crits ont his server? Didn't even realize that. on my last server all monsters gto crits heh, the hardest boss ont he server had dev crit. crit toeing monsters are tough.
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IDii - 2/19/2007 10:32 AM
Falchion would indeed be worse if the weaponmaster feats would work with the custom weapons.
Now just imagine if we enabled D&D hardcore difficulty and monsters could crit on players too. Take one of those greataxe-wielding fire giants for example, they hit for like 60 damage normally. You'd be looking at 200 damage crits every now and then.
I suppose we don't often think how easymode it is for the PCs here... hehe.
So true..the only dice I hold back in pnp as a DM, are the crit rolls of some of the NPCs.
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Yep, monsters can't crit on Layonara since the difficulty setting is at "normal" instead of "D&D hardcore".
The difference is that monsters don't get crits, players don't get attacks of opportunity on them when using ranged weapons or potions in melee.
Also charm and domination on PCs only makes them dazed. Hold, paralyze, stun and petrification effects on players last for a shorter time too.
Would make an interesting difference if it was changed... heh, but things aren't really built in that mind. Most encounters would just murder people.
Anyway this is totally offtopic.
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The real answer?
Good RP... always more deadly than any vorpal dagger of the whoosit
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If it was possible to make the WM feats for the Custom Weapons I have the answer for the original question what the best weapon on layo would be.
-Mercurial longsword in the hands of a WM.. x5 crit and 17-20 crit range. This WM could then go for dual wielding and have 6 attacks every round wich would almost guarante atleast one crit every round. He can also switch to shield when he wan'ts for higher AC and AB when needed.
ofcourse every build have its upside and downsides.. And what build is best overall its defently not a damagefighter here on Layo..
However what weapon would be the ultimate weapon with feats and so forth was the question. If the question only was what wepaon would do most damage the weapon is obviosly the scythe since it is two handed instead of the mercurial longsword that is one-handed.
There is also mercurial greatsword wich would be similar but slightly better then the scythe since it gives 2d6 damage instead of 2d4..
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Wait, how much damage does a normal Greatsword deal?
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ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/20/2007 8:48 AM
Wait, how much damage does a normal Greatsword deal?
2d6. The difference between the Merc GS and the regular GS is that the Merc has x3 crit modifier.
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The Ultimate Weapon is having a Skabot Castoblaster 5000 at your side. Extended Keen Edge, Greater Magic Weapon, Flame Weapon, Stoneskin, Mind blank... EVERY weaponmaster should get at least 2 or 3. Doesn't even need topaz dust!
*warning* the Skabot Castoblaster 5000 is subject to randomly turning into a troll and chucking slime all over everything without notice.
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Is that something you can craft or is it a unic drop??? *grins*
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Drizzlin - 2/20/2007 1:10 PM
ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/20/2007 8:48 AM
Wait, how much damage does a normal Greatsword deal?
2d6. The difference between the Merc GS and the regular GS is that the Merc has x3 crit modifier.
mercurial greatswords are x4 (20)
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But Mercurial GS are Exotic, right? Can you even make them?
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lonnarin - 2/20/2007 12:14 PM
The Ultimate Weapon is having a Skabot Castoblaster 5000 at your side. Extended Keen Edge, Greater Magic Weapon, Flame Weapon, Stoneskin, Mind blank... EVERY weaponmaster should get at least 2 or 3. Doesn't even need topaz dust!
*warning* the Skabot Castoblaster 5000 is subject to randomly turning into a troll and chucking slime all over everything without notice.
agreed. i got to use one of those the other day completly helped in every way shape and form. i reccomend everyone getting one of these.
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All this talk of the ultimate weapon . . . fine - here it is!
(http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0602/iwin.png)
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Kukri.
Yeah. Kukri.