The World of Layonara
NWN Discussions and Suggestions => NWN Ideas, Suggestions, Requests => Topic started by: Witch Hunter on March 19, 2007, 07:29:27 PM
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I just thought... the Soulmother kinda SCREAAAAAAAAAAAAMS when you lose a strand... wouldn't it be cool if it damaged everyone nearby like (not much...) a d6 sonic damage and made them deaf for a short period of time? :P
adds to the chaos and plunder!
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I wouldn't care for that ... what if you had -8 HP, Stabalized and your buddy died and got hit for a SS? Then you die and you get an SS ...
.. n .. o .. w .. a .. y
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So? a stray fireball could do it all the same :p
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Haha maybe just the visual effects... leave the psychological damage for RP.... :P
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I always saw the visual effect more as a very effective way of showing you failed your roll. Losing a strand of your soul would probably be a lot more subtile that that big fx.
For the most part I've always seen people rp it afterwards as having sensed the soulmother or having noticed nothing at all. Which would make some sense given the dragon- and nondragoncalled's special relationship to the soulmother.
Might be that there has been posted about this before, but it would be nice to have some consistency in this.
// disclaimer: it's late and this might not make any sense
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I've always RPed Pyyran as being able to sense it... But then, he's an exceptional fellow.
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Well the visual effect is there... so I'd assume we all see/hear it, we see any other visual effect that occurs don't we?
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I don't know about that, its something I've always worried about. If we go into a potentially hostile place with wards on Just in case. Are the wards visible? For example, is there really a little swordy halo floating over my head for Mindblank?
Back on the topic: I wouldn't mind a small sonic shock from the Soul Mom. Well Rhynn would, I think its a 'cute' Idea.
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I could very well be wrong, but I think the glaring visual effect was added to bring people's attention to the fact they just lost a strand. It used to be just a blurb in the combat window that was easily missed in heavy combat. The same with the 3 death visual that kicks you back to your last bind point. Its a visual representation to let those around you know what is happening but not something to be literally taken in game.
The loss of a soul strand is a very personal representation of a character, and as Filatus said, there is a wide variation in the role play of the act of being one step closer to death.
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Yep but people actually react to it... I've heard plenty of "Oh oh... who did the soulmother get now?" and the like when she hits >.> A "AHHH my ears!! I CAN'T HEAR! I CAN'T HEAR!" would be much cooler :P
As for the subject of wards - I believe they are very visable, the whole point is that you have something magical covering your body adding protection, otherwise the visuals could really be removed as they add a bunch of lag *giggles*
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People read tags and scream "Rust Monster" when they see seagulls too... not to say that is right...
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What Minerva said is essentially correct.
It's not really the Soul Mother screaming. She's not actually there.
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So what exactly happens? no actual visual effect to the soulstrand rip?
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Historically speaking, the loss of a Soul Strand didn't always show the "wail" VFX. It was added a while back to give you a better indication when Soul Strand loss occurs. It is really an OOC indication there to give you, the player, a visual cue which you can use to RP the feeling of loss that came from that death.
But our characters do not see parts of souls, nor do they really perceive the Soul Mother in any way unless she wants to be perceived.
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The Soul Mother has the Harvester to do her dirty work for her, anyway, right? :P I think there are few people who have actually seen her.
Edit - the wail adds some drama, though! It's kind of dull to see "you've lost a soul strand" and missing the whole feeling of a piece of your soul slipping away from you, or being torn completely, like in movies where it's represented as a ghost shape of the physical body being drawn out of it! Not so much her screaming...its your souuuuul screaming. Or something. Hehe. It does add some confusion though, clearly. Just like the ghostly visual for the death effects - everyone ends up thinking they're transparent or have a visual cue.
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As for the subject of wards - I believe they are very visable, the whole point is that you have something magical covering your body adding protection, otherwise the visuals could really be removed as they add a bunch of lag *giggles*
I think the actual reason why you see the wards is to prevent visual boredome. Either way seing them or not after a while they do get boring. It is also a visual aid to see when your ward actualy fails.
I can udnerstand that a ward that actualy affect your phisical being such as stone skin, woudl be visible, but a ward that woudl affect the invisible, hence the mind, would not be visible.
In the haste of combat, you do not pay so much attention to the status bar of you spells on top of the screen but more to where the action is, and I think this is why most wards are visible.
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The soul scream is something that only the character who looses the strand should be feeling or experiencing and for all others it is OOC visual.
Furthermore going a bit off topic I have to agree with Hellblazer here.
I have never perceived visual effect to be visible and always thought of them as OOC visual information.
Certain things can be seen like barkskin, stoneskin and flame weapon.
But other things like Greater Magic Weapon or Death Wards is something that a character can for sure not see. Those are kinda easy as they have no visual representation, but the hard one is protection of elements. I have always thought the runes are not actually circling your character.
Now this opens the whole concept of people roleplaying wards failing. If you dont have spell craft skill there is no way in my opinion that someone would know for example that his death ward is failing. Matter of fact the fighter (with no understanding of the weave) would not even know if the cleric casted death ward on him or not.
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Well, I would think the fighter would at least know the cleric had cast something - while there may be no end visual effect, I'd expect a flare of light or some such from the hands of the cleric casting the spell.. just as a sign that the power of his deity is with him.
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My perception on this is that wither the visual is present or not, someone would feel something is odd, but would not understand what it is. Although with time and by association he would recognize a certain bodily feeling, mood or clarity of mind to a certain spell if he took notion of how he felt as the spells are being casted.
But in essence that would require that the fighter or any other class that do not have SC, has a good enough int to be able to think of how something is affecting him and make the correct association.
But yes, the visuals of most spells are strictly ooc to my humble opinion. As for the soul ripping. I think we could view this in two folds. One, the one that are attune to the weave or the divine (Cleric, bard, ranger and druid) could perceive it as being a disturbance in the normal fabric. But those who has no training, or atonement (not sure if its the right word) to the weave or the divine, would only see a body falling to the ground and dying as to any of them.
Or
We can view it as being something that has such an impact, that what you see on your screen your character would see it, if if they did, it would have such an effect that their moral would be shaken, and their own fear of total oblivion would make them pass in a moment of introspection. Of course in the heat of the battle, the adrenaline would make its way until it fades and then it would hit the people that what has happen has a deep impact and face them with their own unavoidable demise.
Either way, i think it comes down to how you RP. Unless of course, it's a common concenscious by the GM team that the soul ripping is totally ooc.
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Unless of course, it's a common concenscious by the GM team that the soul ripping is totally ooc.
"Soul ripping" is not OOC...because a bit of your character's soul is indeed lost, or rather, a bit of what binds your character's soul to you (i.e. a Soul Strand) is lost. This is an IC thing, and it would be felt by your character.
What is OOC is the "Wail" visual effect that accompanies the loss. That's there for the player to know that a Soul Strand was lost.
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Wow, I thought the Wail was visible to all! Hmm..
Now, this is raising another question for me!
The concept of the Soul Mother seems to cast a negative pall around death, moreso than otherwise. It tends to paint the visage of a greedy, soul-sucking predator for some characters at times (I know Ariel certainly starts to feel that way when people go on about Her).
So I have been wondering, if death is accompanied by something so violent as having a strand torn from your soul by the Soul Mother, is it unrealistic for a character to feel that death is a release, and that it is not negative?
And, describing a Soul Strand as something that tethers your soul to your body I think is wonderful, makes much sense to me.
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Wow, I thought the Wail was visible to all! Hmm..
Now, this is raising another question for me!
The concept of the Soul Mother seems to cast a negative pall around death, moreso than otherwise. It tends to paint the visage of a greedy, soul-sucking predator for some characters at times (I know Ariel certainly starts to feel that way when people go on about Her).
So I have been wondering, if death is accompanied by something so violent as having a strand torn from your soul by the Soul Mother, is it unrealistic for a character to feel that death is a release, and that it is not negative?
And, describing a Soul Strand as something that tethers your soul to your body I think is wonderful, makes much sense to me.
The visual effect is visible to all players...but it's not really a thing that our characters would see. The same can be said about the white glow that characters have while recovering from death. What our characters would see is a rather sickly pallor to indicate a less-than-healthy state, not a translucent white glow. Again, we have limits in the engine and so to give some kind of easy-to-identify state, we have things like these.
Regarding the Soul Mother's nature...well, it's difficult to answer fully without giving away things that should not be given away. There is some write-up about her in the current handbook, which is probably a good start, but to characterize her as a predator is probably not entirely accurate. But! I think I'll leave it there.
As for your character's feelings on death, I suppose that's up to you. What happens on death is documented in the handbook and on LORE...and maybe still on the forums too, but that's a mechanical thing, and does not dictate how one should feel about death. I would suggest you figure out your own answer to that question, but I believe there are many "reasonable" perspectives on death and that part of how one may feel about it may have its roots in a character's belief (or lack thereof) in the dogma of one or more deities.
:)
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Actually, the very first person that achieved perm status on Layonara actually were visited by the soulmother and had his soul taken.
This was visible by all the players that stood around the body. This was on the 10th token, and before that there was no way to check if you had lost a token.
I think that the new animation only brings the feeling to your character that something felt wrong opun that death, and perhaps a checkup at the nearest healer can confirm that another strand was cut.
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If there are several perspectives on death, perhaps there can be several perspectives on the loss of a strand. It'd prevent the need to reroute a bunch of RPing and CDTs, either way ;)
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Actually, the very first person that achieved perm status on Layonara actually were visited by the soulmother and had his soul taken.
This was visible by all the players that stood around the body. This was on the 10th token, and before that there was no way to check if you had lost a token.
I think that the new animation only brings the feeling to your character that something felt wrong opun that death, and perhaps a checkup at the nearest healer can confirm that another strand was cut.
Yep...that is visible. But that's a different kind of situation. :)
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"Soul ripping" is not OOC...because a bit of your character's soul is indeed lost, or rather, a bit of what binds your character's soul to you (i.e. a Soul Strand) is lost. This is an IC thing, and it would be felt by your character.
What is OOC is the "Wail" visual effect that accompanies the loss. That's there for the player to know that a Soul Strand was lost.
Sorry dorg i meant the visual not the actual soul ripping.
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Well, I've always played Pyyran as having an uncanny sense of danger, and of the changing tides of luck. The most obvious thing I do to RP this is his "trouble itch..." Mechanically, however, this is represented by both Improved Evasion and Improved Uncanny Dodge, which are both (if I remember right) Extraordinary abilities which give the character a heightened "sixth sense" which I think fits the Trouble Itch really well.
His sixth sense, as well as his sheer volume of experience with magic and death, I play as giving him a good idea when something Big happens, like the death of a party member/friend, the loss of a Strand in his immediate vicinity, a trap that he's about to step on, or the goblin sneaking up behind him. (After all, he retains his DEX bonus to AC against attackers he's unaware of, and can get out of the way of an exploding Fireball before it is finished being cast.)
Characters with Healing or Death domains, I would think, would also get a sense of when something catastrophic relating to death occurs. Likewise, specialists in Necromancy, and Sorcerers of any flavour.
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Really, Sorcerers of any flavour? Do elaborate - what makes you say that?
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They have a deeply ingrained connection to the Weave and to magic... I would think it would give them as strong a sixth sense (if not one that could react in the same way, with the same alacrity) as Pyyran has through Imp. Evasion and Uncanny Dodge.
I've always considered Sorcerers' Spellcraft to be an intuitive thing, rather than one gained through study. Therefore, if something Big happens (and I would think that the Soul Mother ripping away a strand would be big), I'd think they'd feel it.
Then again, this all hinges on how you view Sorcerers.
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I'm not sure how a sorcerer's or wizard's spellcraft and/or connection to the Weave would give them an understanding of something like a soul being torn from its foundations.
Furthermore, I think that a high level sorcerer would be far more sensitive to disturbances in the Weave (and it has not yet been established that a lost Soul Strand is in fact such a thing) than a low-level sorcerer. While both have an innate ability with the Weave, the lower-level sorcerer just may not have the experience or be as attuned as the high-level sorcerer. In that, an event could happen that a low-level sorcerer may completely miss but one that would proverbially "raise the hackles" of a high-level one.
So don't factor out things like experience and such on what one's character can and cannot perceive, and in this case also identify. And don't make too many assumptions that can lead to over-RPing what these numbers and line-items actually mean.
I personally think it's incorrect to say any necromancer, cleric or the other things you mentioned would be able to sense and identify each and every Soul Strand loss in the vicinity regardless of level, experience or other factors.
My opinion only, of course. :)
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I actually agree with you wholeheartedly, Dorg - experience is a big part of it... I should've clarified that in my post, I was mainly speaking of characters with a fair deal of experience. Pyyran, for instance, is one of the more experienced people on Layonara who are devoted Adventurers (and, to my knowledge, the only one who lists his profession as such, at least among PCs). And even then, his Trouble Itch is imperfect, even with all of his efforts to tune in on it. (I plan to take him to Bard levels, if he makes it past 10th in Duelist.)
I would think, furthermore, that Sorcerers, and really anyone who relies on intuition, would be able to have greater understanding of the base intuition inherent in at least all humans, as they gain experience with it.