The Dogma states "bear in mind that in the Great Cycle of life, death also has its place" right? Now what do we do with raise dead? Is the death within the great cycle a death of old age or any death?...
As I've recently made an Aeridinite the "eternal struggle" that is the Dogma came up to my head, I've talked it over with plenty and, well, I want to bring the discussion to public because some sort of explanation has to be set in stone, no?
I've heard the argument time and again that "if you don't go to a place looking to fight, but looking for, say, gems, then it's not bad if you have to kill to protect yourself! It's the intent that matters!" I have to say that that is purest rubbish. Sure, spawn points are OOC knowledge. But really... If you go into a place known as "The Red Light GOBLIN Caves," it's rather obvious you're going to find goblins. Goblins are warlike, typically speaking, and busting into their place... Well... That's going to end in violence. Solution? Don't goAlright, let's consider this for a moment.
Domains
# Air
# Earth
# Healing
# Sun
# Water
# Good
Clerics of Aeridin often combine the healing domains with one of the other domains.
Disagree with stance on constructs, really...mechanical creations are pretty different from anything concerned with the Lifegiver... if you can make a box that can wave a metal arm, why should Aeridin care? It has nothing to do with undead without stretching it way too much, especially for a deity that is already rather restrictive. :)
Edit- Except as stated, when using the remains of the dead and such.
One aspect of Aeridin, and an important one at that is the greater cycle of the natural world. I'm not talking about trees, and animals here. I talking about the seasons and the elements, earth, water, air and sun.
Aeridin appears to be the primary god concerned with the cycle of these elements. This can cleary be seen by the domains avaliable to clerics of The Lifegiver.
Speaking to the sun archer in game would give a different view of Aeridin.
There is a blatant difference between a cleric and a priest. The priest remains at the service of the temple and aid those who comes to them. The cleric will go out and meet those who needs their help.
Raising someone that shouldn't be raised is one of the biggest crimes, if not -the- biggest crime, according to the dogma of Aeridin. A cleric of the Lifegiver would most probably not dare to perform the raise, if there would be any doubt of doing wrong.
*Grumbles something about Grannoch being the elemental goddess*
Edit - And Hellblazer, not objecting to a construct being destroyed is much different than stating Aeridinites see constructs in the same manner as they do undead, frowning upon their creation and presence if not outright going after them etc, which is what was stated, and what I was disagreeing with.
This was so much simpler before, when everyone was called by Ozlo. The calling set forth a purpose in a character's life, which also could be used to define "untimely death" and the permission to use the Raise Dead/Resurrect spell. Now, with that gone, it's much, much more difficult to tell.What I would like to know, then, is what the in character-reason for the Soul Strands and the ability to bind one's soul to the various bindpoints around the world. How is that explained nowadays, for the characters who were created after the call of Ozlo?
To put it very simple: How do you know a person has not permed?
Normally, a person perms the -first- time he dies. A NPC dying is not respawning to a bindstone. If he dies, he's dead. If you raise him, you are breaking against the "laws of Aeridin".
Alright so they gain slower XP compared to who? A cleric of vorax that's sole purpose is war?This brings up an interesting point. As much as a Warrior (or Cleric of Vorax) gain experience from battle, if we Aeridinites aren't supposed to "fight", shouldn't we gain our experience from what we do best, then, which is Healing and caring for life? Of course I realize this is more or less impossible to accomplish, but seeing how the game is the way it is, we really have no choice other than to go out on fighting excursions in between the events we can attend to, or the limited amount of quests there are. If my Cleric of Aeridin wants to become better at what she does, she must help out in fights. It's that simple.
How is that fair to the player himself? Now you said something about being a level/xp oriented person but that's very easy for you to say at level 17 with access to all the glorious aspects of being a cleric.
Now you said something about being a level/xp oriented person but that's very easy for you to say at level 17 with access to all the glorious aspects of being a cleric (level 1-9 spells being one!)
One aspect of Aeridin, and an important one at that is the greater cycle of the natural world. I'm not talking about trees, and animals here. I talking about the seasons and the elements, earth, water, air and sun.
Aeridin appears to be the primary god concerned with the cycle of these elements. This can cleary be seen by the domains avaliable to clerics of The Lifegiver.
*Grumbles something about Grannoch being the elemental goddess*
Edit - And Hellblazer, not objecting to a construct being destroyed is much different than stating Aeridinites see constructs in the same manner as they do undead, frowning upon their creation and presence if not outright going after them etc, which is what was stated, and what I was disagreeing with.
Aye but, if i am not mistaken, the process for creating those constructs means that life has been infused in them by an non natural or Divine means In essence it is artificialy creating life as much as necromancy can artificially refuse a decaying body with a soul and taking them under their ontrol. IMHO
What I would like to know, then, is what the in character-reason for the Soul Strands and the ability to bind one's soul to the various bindpoints around the world. How is that explained nowadays, for the characters who were created after the call of Ozlo?
Now to be fair to Alleina, that character was created 2006-01-06 and almost 15 months later she is only level 17, where many others in the same time period would be way further ahead. So I am sure she had her fair share of waiting for those "nice" spells to come around.
If my Cleric of Aeridin wants to become better at what she does, she must help out in fights. It's that simple.
In scenario 1, much like a modern paramedic or doctor might be able to revive a patient who has died in some way, why wouldn't an Aeridinite restore life to someone, through Raise Dead for example, who perhaps shouldn't have died in the first place? To draw the line at NPCs just seems quite the wrong perspective, in my opinion.
I did not mean that in a disrespectful way, I'm just saying it's very easy to tell others to take it slow when you can do all the nifty clerical stuff.
Sure it took him time, much more than the average time - but should everyone follow his example just because he did it?
An evil cleric of Corath could still get along with hunting very easily - mindless slaughter is not something hard to encounter (and there are plenty deityless true neutral people that could help with such an act)
It basiclly comes down to Aeridins dogma being the only one that forbids (in some way, although not clear) going on hunts... but there is no actual reward to being a pacifisthealer other than the occasional DM quest. infact, many DM quests are denied from a cleric of Aeridin also, simply because they involve fighting or choices that go againts the Dogma... and I hardly see a level 5 cleric arguing with a level 15 fighter and winning an effective argument!
This places me in a very bad position, because it makes me look like I'm xp hungry. But I'd like to point out that the experince I want for my character is nooooooothing more than what normal characters recieve, it's not like I'm hopping from level 1 to 15 in a week.
What I would like to know, then, is what the in character-reason for the Soul Strands and the ability to bind one's soul to the various bindpoints around the world. How is that explained nowadays, for the characters who were created after the call of Ozlo?
(1) Why not extend your hand a bit if you already raise the Dragon Called? Is it that tough to believe everyone has a purpose beyond dying to a sword/club/insert nasty method of death here. Not to mention the soulstrand factor.
(2) Here is where being a cleric of Aeridin truly becomes what it means, rather than not raise them one SHOULD raise them, this is what differs Aeridin from other gods, the importance of preservation and a full life. Since we are speaking about personal conclusions I can say full heartily that I'd raise regardless of soul stones, especially considering my characters background and personality.
(3) Why not raise them? Does Aeridin deny their right to live? Truly doesn't sound like an act of the goodiest two-shoe god out there, especially considering the Dogma states: "Do not refuse to aid those who need it"... who are we to deny them the right just because Aeridin isn't their favorite person? How do we promote such likeness to Aeridin if we do not show his gifts to anyone?
Yes, that is one way. Quests are another. The issue though is whether or not your Cleric of Aeridin should be actively seeking conflict and engaging directly in combat in an offensive capacity.The problem with quests is that more often than not, they include killing, or at least some kind of objective that is questionable for a Cleric of Aeridin to perform. Not counting the rather unprofitable delivery quests, we only have quests that include killing something else. Even if it is killing Kobolds or Rats for the 'safety' of the city, it's still not so obvious an Aeridinite would perform such a task. The only quests we definitely can take, are the ones involving crypts or undead. In any case, my point is that Aeridinites are very limited to what they can do in order to progress in skill, if they are to follow the Dogma like fanatics. Role-play elements and sacrifices made when choosing character to play aside, this does give a rather unfair advantage to other classes, seeing how we cannot gain any skill by helping the sick or healing the wounded, while a Warrior or the like can easily do what he or she does best, and excel significantly in their skills. This is why I do not think we should be so anal and strict about certain things that dictate the Dogma of an Aeridin Cleric.
This is a major part of the puzzle we try to solve. With this question answered, I believe the "Who can we raise?" question will soon be uncovered also!Yes, I am definitely looking forward to the revised version of the handbook. I intend to read every word, gradually. It should clear many matters up.
The problem with quests is that more often than not, they include killing, or at least some kind of objective that is questionable for a Cleric of Aeridin to perform. Not counting the rather unprofitable delivery quests, we only have quests that include killing something else. Even if it is killing Kobolds or Rats for the 'safety' of the city, it's still not so obvious an Aeridinite would perform such a task. The only quests we definitely can take, are the ones involving crypts or undead. In any case, my point is that Aeridinites are very limited to what they can do in order to progress in skill, if they are to follow the Dogma like fanatics. Role-play elements and sacrifices made when choosing character to play aside, this does give a rather unfair advantage to other classes, seeing how we cannot gain any skill by helping the sick or healing the wounded, while a Warrior or the like can easily do what he or she does best, and excel significantly in their skills. This is why I do not think we should be so anal and strict about certain things that dictate the Dogma of an Aeridin Cleric.
1) A person getting a sword through his heart.
2) A person tripping and falling down a cliff.
3) A person getting a heart attack.
4) A person catching plague.
5) A person having problem breathing in his sleep, and dies of suffocation
Some are touching the borders between "normal" and "untimely death". For 99% of the deaths, even in real life, there are some "reason" behind it. People don't die of old age, but of the illness that goes hand-in-hand with old age.
I tend to believe a stereotype Aeridinite is like the doctor doing all in his power to "fix" a person, until the moment of death itself (when he murmurs a prayer, saying "We did what we could." and moves onto the next sick person!). This is most probably a very orthodox view of this matter.
Heh, I do not expect anyone to follow what I do. I would actually classify anyone doing that as... well... insane... *Coughs.*
The reason for why not is quite clear, I believe. Alleina is reluctant to raise anyone, and if she do that at all, she feels that the person in question do have to value the life itself. To activate a soulstone, you have to "sacrifice" a tiny part of your own soul (symbolised by the XP decrease).
The difference of our thinking on this steems from the fact that we have two completely different views in core about the whole dogma.
Raising people is on the other hand, touching the grey line and seems to be something "optional" for a cleric. And because of my belief that raises should be avoided as much as possible, it's probably self explaining of why she refuses to raise people of enemy deity.
The thing is that game mechanics (i.e. the gaining of XP) should not be used as an excuse for an Aeridinite to go out and bash. Rather, an Aeridinite might accompany a group that is going out to bash and he/she could provide healing, protection, etc, assuming the purpose is not simply one of "Let's go bash". The options available to play one's dogma are even greater on GM-led quests, some of which involve little to no killing at all.
AHH FINALLY!! this is what I said earlier - can a cleric join a group if his purpose is to heal the wounded and ward them? (not buff, ward.) Because if so, you cleared the fog for me at least.A cleric of Aeridin can join a group. Whether he should join that group should however be determined based on the group's purpose. I'm not going to go down the slippery slope of trying to define for you under what circumstances a cleric of Aeridin would/should join a group. However, I can give an example of a situation where a cleric of Aeridin probably should not join a group: Character A: Hey, what do you say we go give the giants in the desert some trouble? Character B: Aye, I could use some training...and some Trues Character A: *nods* Character B: We should bring a healer though...know any? Character A: Yeah, is one. Character A: *turns to * Hey there, would you like to come train with us against the giants in the desert? We could use a good healer. So looking at this situation, the entire purpose of the group is to go out, kill stuff and take their loot. Do you think that's a good group for an Aeridinite? As for "should" though, I'll leave that up the the judgment of the players.
From whom have you heard that?
I meant GM-run quests, not "bring me the head of that bad buy" quests from NPCs.
On the quest issue...
My best and only advice is: Sign up and show up. And if it's not appropriate, walk off.
*waits for a response from an avatar of Aeridin*
if a God is purely about peace and life, he would not have enemies
Every deity has a limited scope of what he or she governs, and there are rules within the dogma covering that range, but there is wiggle room within that confined space. As you pointed out, there seems to be some contradiction or grey areas in Aeridin's dogma. That doesn't necessarily need to be clarified and set in stone. Every religion has conservatives and liberals, or orthodox and reformists, or whatever you want to call them. There is space within the dogma for characters who look at the same doctrines from different perspectives, which makes the faiths dynamic and fun to roleplay rather than cookie-cutter plain and predictable.
On a smaller scale, though, you are right. Each individual Cleric should have a personal concept of the dogma more or less set in stone. The extra paragraphs required at the end of a submission are meant to get the player to consider just exactly how the character perceives the dogma, and make sure that concept is inline with the spirit and nature of the faith. That way, the player knows how to play the character's view of the dogma as soon as he steps into the world.