The World of Layonara
NWN Discussions and Suggestions => NWN Ideas, Suggestions, Requests => Topic started by: twidget658 on March 30, 2007, 05:46:17 AM
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Like some druids have Take to the Air in bird form, can the other classes that polymorph into a creature that flies get the Take to the Air spell as well?
Seems a bit odd that a fey flies up to a cliff or to a ravine and cannot fly up to the edge or across the ravine. A fey, for example, flies around but stops at the waters edge because it cannot fly across water. Or it comes to a cliff, but cannot fly up or down it face.
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even take to the air is limited though to a short hop
the z axis looks cool going up and down but its really only about 50 feet in movement
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Personally I think feys are too fragile to fly at high altitudes - though across a stream shouldn't be a problem - but that's likely more game mechanics.
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Personally I think feys are too fragile to fly at high altitudes - though across a stream shouldn't be a problem - but that's likely more game mechanics.
Not saying that they are flying miles and miles or at great altitudes.
even take to the air is limited though to a short hop...the z axis looks cool going up and down but its really only about 50 feet in movement
And a cliff face is less than that. I know what the spell is and does. That is all I am suggesting. Nothing more and nothing done to the spell.
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The problem with what you're suggesting is that it sets a precedent. Everyone with a flying familiar is going to want their familiar to be able to take to the air as well. There just isn't the time available to devote to redoing every familiar and every potentially-flying polymorph or shapechange.
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Would you be willing to sacrifice lock-picking for Take to the Air?
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Would you be willing to sacrifice lock-picking for Take to the Air?
In a heart beat!
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Would you be willing to sacrifice lock-picking for Take to the Air?
YES!!!!! YES!!! YES!!!!!!
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Would you be willing to sacrifice lock-picking for Take to the Air?
I hope you're atleast somewhat serious: In which case: Oh Please Do.
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The problem with what you're suggesting is that it sets a precedent. Everyone with a flying familiar is going to want their familiar to be able to take to the air as well. There just isn't the time available to devote to redoing every familiar and every potentially-flying polymorph or shapechange.
Plus if you started changing them, you would have to address the fact that most of the default forms/familiars don't really fit in with Layo in the first place - so if you did anything to them, you'd sort of have to change them completely :P
But swapping lockpicking for take to the air would be fun for pixie familiars... a small but effective change! hehe
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Seconded! Do it!
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I originally thought that this thread was about the polymorph pixie. If we're talking about the familiars, one should also consider the raven and the bat.
They are by far the best flying creatures in that list in the first place. The whole concept of the raven is based around high spot and listen in the first place, looking from its high perch to inform his master.
If we are talking about the polymorph pixie. I'm not really that bothered myself. The pixieshape on quests is working just fine, without needing that feat. I have used the zombie, spider and pixie shape quite succesfully in many rp'd ways.
Outside quests I do not really see the need for such an ability except for a bit of fun. Which of course never hurts anyone. :)
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As for redoing the familiars. You only have to update their skins to add such an ability.
I do believe there is some erf file that allows you direct access in the toolset to the familiars and their skins.
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That's not the problem Filatus. The problem is you'd have to update them for each level of each familiar. Each level familiar is different in game terms, so you'd have to do 40 of each.
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Ahh, oke. Since their skins do not change for every level I thought it would be possible to just change the skins and leave the familiars.
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I was just referring to polymorphs. The main reason being is that the person is actually changing into the form. Also, I limited it to the polymorphs so to put some type of cap on it so it doesn't spread to everything and cause a huge headache to the team.
The thing with the familiars is that the person is still left behind and the familiar flies away. Could lead to some other problems I am not aware of. But just doing it for the polymorphs, the actualy player is moved.
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I would like to interject that this opens to a possible exploitation. One of our server rules is that we do not position monsters onto spots where attacking the PC is impossible. My interpretation of this rule is that my druid is not allowed to use take to the air and position himself on an area where monsters can not reach him, while he drops spells on them from a distance. Dorganath, please correct me if I am wrong about this.
AeonBlues
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That's correct, it could be exploited, and it would be against the rules to do so.
But then as it's been pointed out, some forms have this ability. So it would remain against the rules to exploit geography.
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Giving the ability to pixie familiars would still be a fun thing RP wise and think of would you could accomplish on a DM quest with it! To take away lockpicked we really would have to redo all 20 or 40 pixie familiar creatures though.
As for the polymorph pixie, it doesn't really have much purpose as it stands right now. It doesn't seem to be good at anything and it almost always drops your strength below what you're carrying so you're encumbered.
However, giving the pixie form take to the air would give it to a very large portion of the server at relatively low levels. Wizards at level 7, sorcerers at level 8, clerics with animal domain at.. not sure what level and rangers at level 13 or 14.
Not sure how much of an impact that would have on the "special-ness" of the ability.
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Not sure how much of an impact that would have on the "special-ness" of the ability.
Quoting for emphasis as I sort of agree with this. So far the ability and similar ones have been associated with WLDQ rewards and much higher levels.
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Quoting for emphasis as I sort of agree with this. So far the ability and similar ones have been associated with WLDQ rewards and much higher levels.
Druids ARE able to get this at comprable levels (somewhere around 6 or 9) if they take a feat, but druids should have their own special powers. Also they have to take a feat.
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Why is it when someone suggests something, everyone else tries to bash it because it doesn't affect them?
I am very certain the teams are well aware of all the pros and cons and will make the right decision. The decision is based on how it will impact the server and the if it is in spirit of the server. If you do not support the suggestion, then I rather you not post in my thread.
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Why is it when someone suggests something, everyone else tries to bash it because it doesn't affect them?
From a cursory inspection, at least three of those who have posted to this thread would GAIN the "Take to the Air" ability if it were implemented as you suggest. So yes, it affects them.
I am very certain the teams are well aware of all the pros and cons and will make the right decision. The decision is based on how it will impact the server and the if it is in spirit of the server.
Any and all of the arguments in this thread against your idea fit neatly into "how the decision will impact the server and if it is in the spirit of the server".
We have the individual concerned with whether this might impact those people who completed a WLDQ to gain the feat:
Not sure how much of an impact that would have on the "special-ness" of the ability.
Quoting for emphasis as I sort of agree with this. So far the ability and similar ones have been associated with WLDQ rewards and much higher levels.
Both of whom are world leaders, so it's safe to assume that they've established a history of caring about the impact on the server...
Then we have the implementation standpoint - time constraints, exploitability and accessibility:
The problem with what you're suggesting is that it sets a precedent. Everyone with a flying familiar is going to want their familiar to be able to take to the air as well. There just isn't the time available to devote to redoing every familiar and every potentially-flying polymorph or shapechange.
I would like to interject that this opens to a possible exploitation. One of our server rules is that we do not position monsters onto spots where attacking the PC is impossible. My interpretation of this rule is that my druid is not allowed to use take to the air and position himself on an area where monsters can not reach him, while he drops spells on them from a distance.
However, giving the pixie form take to the air would give it to a very large portion of the server at relatively low levels. Wizards at level 7, sorcerers at level 8, clerics with animal domain at.. not sure what level and rangers at level 13 or 14.
The last, I think, is of particular note, as it would completely trivialize the previous point: anyone who took a WLDQ to get the feat would now find the feat to be absolutely commonplace.
If you do not support the suggestion, then I rather you not post in my thread.
The forum is here as just that: a forum (http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=forum). Don't assume you're being persecuted simply because people are opposed to your idea; what I've seen in this thread so far is mild opposition, and in some cases, strong support. If you close your thread to those who do not support the idea, it has little validity as an accurate representation of the views of the community for or against your suggestion.
Now, I myself have no idea how Polymorph is handled by the game engine, (though I will look that up at my earliest convenience), so I don't know how difficult it would be to add a feat to a polymorphed form. I think it would be an interesting RP tool. That being said, I remember seeing someone who won it as part of a CDQ or WLDQ use it to fly from the top of the Hlint stand-thingie to the ground, and my reaction was "Wow, is that ever cool!" If all you had to do was go pixieform to do it, that would pretty much be lost entirely - and that would be my chief argument against it.
So, if there were some way of augmenting the feat for those who acheived it specially, I'd be all for this idea (implementation permitting)! And I have no character, nor plan for one in the near future, which would gain an advantage through this change. I just think it'd be neat to see pixies actually flying over obstacles.
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Just a thought but Take to the Air is incredibly useful for one thing, getting "unstuck" from cliffs. I don't know how much work it would be to give out the ability but if it is more common it may save a lot of DM time later from helping stuck people down (as well as all the player time spent waiting for help, and all the parties with plans ruined by someone getting stuck)
In fact when i was playing a druid i can remember at least four or five times i used take to the air to fly up and help someone down who was stuck on a cliff and didn't have tinder for the sit-by-the-fire trick to bump them down
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Why is it when someone suggests something, everyone else tries to bash it because it doesn't affect them?
I am very certain the teams are well aware of all the pros and cons and will make the right decision. The decision is based on how it will impact the server and the if it is in spirit of the server. If you do not support the suggestion, then I rather you not post in my thread.
To be fair, don't confuse disagreement with "bashing". Often discussions like this with opposing viewpoints can result in a solution that is most fitting and appropriate to implement. Also, keeping the thought process out in the open here removes that whole "back room decision" aspect.
Yes, ultimately we decide based on the impact of the server, but often someone will bring up an issue we had not considered. Dissenting opinions are not always meant to "bash". In fact I'd say it's rarely the case.
Just as it's appropriate for someone to bring up an idea that they think will enhance the server, it's just as valid for someone to bring up a possible reason why it may not be the best idea.
As long as the input is constructive and civil, there's no real reason to squelch the discussion.
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From a cursory inspection, at least three of those who have posted to this thread would GAIN the "Take to the Air" ability if it were implemented as you suggest. So yes, it affects them..
True, so the caveat applies to them.
Both of whom are world leaders, so it's safe to assume that they've established a history of caring about the impact on the server...
Believe me, I am very aware of who these two individuals are and of their contributions. I have nothing personal against them. Matter of fact, I respect them both a lot. But sometimes, somethings ARE best left to discussing behind closed doors to avoid the loss of creativity. If people feel they will be shot down just because someone else see any value, them why would they even post. Some say, "The worse thing that can happen is that they say no." This is not true. The worse thing that can happen is shutting people down and the world lossing out on good suggestions.
The last, I think, is of particular note, as it would completely trivialize the previous point: anyone who took a WLDQ to get the feat would now find the feat to be absolutely commonplace....
This is a valid point, as it always has been with any suggestion.
If you close your thread to those who do not support the idea...
I never said that. I think that was your interpretation.
My original idea was how to RP climbing a cliff. Now disregarding the polymorph and the take to the air spell, a ranger would actually be able to climb a cliff or swim across a small lake to an island. So, take to the air was the only way I saw to get a ranger to 'climb.'