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The Layonara Community => Just for Fun => Topic started by: OneST8 on April 05, 2007, 08:29:12 AM

Title: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: OneST8 on April 05, 2007, 08:29:12 AM
Microsoft Sued Over Deceptive 'Vista-Capable' Sticker (http://www.playfuls.com/news_06848_Microsoft_Sued_Over_Deceptive_Vista_Capable_Sticker.html)

Ok, so I find this stuff funny. Just don't sue me! haha!
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Kindo on April 05, 2007, 10:56:13 AM
Stoopid Microsoft.
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Marswipp on April 05, 2007, 05:08:38 PM
I think the only reason this has happened is because Microsoft Corporation has a deathgrip on the majority of the commercially produced personal computers. Not to mention that Microsoft Corporation (and Adobe) take advantage of the resulting larger advantage (price-gouging) resulting from the limited choice.
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: MJZ on April 05, 2007, 06:17:27 PM
All the Vista nonsense is just too hilarious. It doesn't even make me smile. **Looks down at the "Vista Capable!" sticker on her laptop** I bought you for school when my PC's HD mysteriously died while I was on vacation! Nothing more!

Every other day I tell myself I've had enough of MS. Then I fire up Linux and groan about the new things I haven't yet learned, and boot back into MS. Laziness knows no bounds. (Or lack of time, however you want to put it.) Just a couple of days ago, I installed a vital MS security update. Which resulted in the destruction of my Realtech soundcard dll. Contact distributor for a new dll. Yep, I'll just call Realtech right up.

But whaddya mean, Adobe? Not Adobe!! PS is so... so... integral!!
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: hawklen on April 05, 2007, 06:40:59 PM
Vista Home Basic, "which has been described by one reviewer as 'the most pointless edition of Windows that Microsoft has ever released'."

That made me giggle
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Dorganath on April 05, 2007, 08:20:41 PM
Yeah, OK...I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here...And it's all in good spirits :)

1) I thought Microsoft Bashing as a participant sport went out in the late 1990's...

2) Microsoft historically publishes bare minimums for being able to support their OSes.  This has always been the case, and they are frequently about 50% of what one should generally treat as the minimums.  I'm sure other OS Vendors do this as well...even the Linux distros...in order to attempt to appeal to a broader market.

3) It is not Microsoft's fault that a hardware vendor does not built their machines to specifications over the minimums.

4) Yeah, Vista Basic is pretty useless...but this confusion, in my opinion, is the problem being introduced here is that there are 5 versions of Vista (Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, Ultimate and Enterprise).  XP had 3 versions (Home, Professional and Media Center).  The requirements of each are vastly different for maximum benefit.

5) The "Aero" GUI is NOT Windows Vista...sorry.  Windows Vista is the operating system, not the GUI.  To say otherwise is like saying Gnome is Linux.

I'm sure there's more, and no, I'm not a shareholder in Microsoft, but it's really easy to attack them for no other reason but that they're the biggest ones in the room. But meh...not worth arguing.  Everyone has their preferences, and all OSes have their shortcomings.

And for what it's worth, my PC at work is running Vista on a machine never stickered for Vista and bought a good year ago with full "Aero" eye-candy across two 1680x1050 20" LCD monitors operating at full resolution and it doesn't skip a beat.


YMMV :p
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: MJZ on April 05, 2007, 09:26:30 PM
Quote from: Dorganath
1) I thought Microsoft Bashing as a participant sport went out in the late 1990's...

Never! Windows bashing shall never die, so long as Windows lives on! :p

Quote from: Dorganath
....but it's really easy to attack them for no other reason but that they're the biggest ones in the room.

That's not the reason.. the reasons are such that their software is purposefully incompatible with other non-MS software, loading a video in WMP will cause all other video programs to crash afterwards, installing updates damages often more than it fixes, drivers drivers drivers error error error, blue screen of death (which STILL happens!!), monopolies make the evil overlords who run them not give a bibble... *continues in a complicated and rambling manner*

Quote from: Dorganath
And for what it's worth, my PC at work is running Vista on a machine never stickered for Vista

Which only proves that it was all a ploy! A ploy I tells ya!

:o
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Dorganath on April 05, 2007, 09:46:46 PM
The BSoD is caused far more by 3rd-party software and drivers than the OS or Microsoft's software.

ALL OSes can crash when an unstable element is introduced.  

And yes, they ARE attacked because they're the biggest one in the room.

If (and it's a big IF) Linux or MacOS (any version) had the same market penetration as Windows:

* People would bash them with equal fervor
* More malware writers would target those platforms.

Though the latter may happen anyway...since Linux, MacOS and Windows can all run on Intel-based platforms, it's just a matter of time before someone smart figures out how to write and deploy a cross-OS virus.

Whee!  This is fun! :p
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: darkstorme on April 05, 2007, 10:48:34 PM
*applauds Dorg for taking such a dangerous stance*

(Mind you, I've been developing MFC stuff for the better part of a month, now, so I've taken to drawing little devil horns on any M-soft logos I run across. :S)
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Dorganath on April 05, 2007, 10:58:04 PM
Switch to .NET...your brain will thank you. ;)
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: hawklen on April 05, 2007, 10:59:45 PM
Quote from: Dorganath
Switch to .NET...your brain will thank you. ;)


Yer crazy!! @_@
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Dorganath on April 05, 2007, 11:18:06 PM
Quote from: hawklen
Yer crazy!! @_@

I am!  

But .NET is still much nicer than MFC....and overall, it's a pretty slick framework.
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Marswipp on April 05, 2007, 11:23:54 PM
Not to mention its sometimes as buggy as the dickens; it is an MS product after all.
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: hawklen on April 05, 2007, 11:26:59 PM
I perfer KFC over MFC. Its finger linkin' good!
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: gilshem ironstone on April 06, 2007, 04:38:23 AM
Quote from: Dorganath
Yeah, OK...I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here...And it's all in good spirits :)



Even though I loathe Microsoft, not for their largeness, but for the tactics that helped them attain their largeness.  Any producer of any product, knowingly putting sub-standard product on the market for the sake of a short-term dollar and then billing it as a quantum leap forward for your quality of life is so totally unethical that they should have their corporate charter revoked and thrown in prison.  This includes hardware companies involved in intentional obsoletism, to Microsoft, to car companies, to pharms, to whatever.  At the end of the day though, only the consumers of these products can hold vendors responsible, because all other institutions are systemically involved in propagating irresponsible behaviour.  So although Dorg, you are right we should maybe just move on from Microsoft I also suggest that these sorts of dialogues create momentum to demand greater responsibility from our corporate citizens.  So keep on being devil's advocate, and lets hope the angels continue to sing!
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: hawklen on April 06, 2007, 05:27:38 AM
Quote from: gilshem ironstone
Even though I loathe Microsoft, not for their largeness, but for the tactics that helped them attain their largeness.  Any producer of any product, knowingly putting sub-standard product on the market for the sake of a short-term dollar and then billing it as a quantum leap forward for your quality of life is so totally unethical that they should have their corporate charter revoked and thrown in prison.  This includes hardware companies involved in intentional obsoletism, to Microsoft, to car companies, to pharms, to whatever.  At the end of the day though, only the consumers of these products can hold vendors responsible, because all other institutions are systemically involved in propagating irresponsible behaviour.  So although Dorg, you are right we should maybe just move on from Microsoft I also suggest that these sorts of dialogues create momentum to demand greater responsibility from our corporate citizens.  So keep on being devil's advocate, and lets hope the angels continue to sing!

Uh, is this the part where we burn our underwear and sing protest songs?
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Laldiien on April 06, 2007, 05:36:25 AM
Quote from: hawklen
Uh, is this the part where we burn our underwear and sing protest songs?

I burn my underware as a matter of course.  I'm not trying to make a statement though.
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Dorganath on April 06, 2007, 08:38:23 AM
Quote from: Laldiien
I burn my underware as a matter of course.  I'm not trying to make a statement though.

It's easier than washing them *nods* :p
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Faldred on April 06, 2007, 08:44:11 AM
Quote from: Dorganath
Switch to .NET...your brain will thank you. ;)

Meh.  If you want to program in Java, why not just program in Java?
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Dorganath on April 06, 2007, 08:48:09 AM
Quote from: gilshem ironstone
Even though I loathe Microsoft, not for their largeness, but for the tactics that helped them attain their largeness.  Any producer of any product, knowingly putting sub-standard product on the market for the sake of a short-term dollar and then billing it as a quantum leap forward for your quality of life is so totally unethical that they should have their corporate charter revoked and thrown in prison.  This includes hardware companies involved in intentional obsoletism, to Microsoft, to car companies, to pharms, to whatever.  At the end of the day though, only the consumers of these products can hold vendors responsible, because all other institutions are systemically involved in propagating irresponsible behaviour.  So although Dorg, you are right we should maybe just move on from Microsoft I also suggest that these sorts of dialogues create momentum to demand greater responsibility from our corporate citizens.  So keep on being devil's advocate, and lets hope the angels continue to sing!

Ahh...yes...

This is a good, lucid and appropriate comment.  And you're very right that this spans much farther than Microsoft, as they certainly did not invent certain business tactics, nor are they the only one's perpetuating their use.  That's not an excuse for them by any means, simply a statement on the state of business in general.

On "knowingly releasing sub-standard products"...there are very few products that are without flaws. In a product as complex as a modern , commercial operating system, making one without flaws is unfortunately not really practical.  The same could be said for any other popular OS out there...

Rather than release service packs, Apple makes you buy a new version when they improve/add features and fix problems.  In the same span of time, Microsoft released Windows XP once with 2 free service packs and many free patches while Apple released 4 or 5 versions of OSX that you had to pay for. Think different! :rolleyes:

And Linux...heh...they're so ashamed of that product they have to give it away... ;)

I don't mind calling Microsoft to the carpet for legitimate reasons, but let's all be honest with ourselves here and not just target them because they're Microsoft.
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Dorganath on April 06, 2007, 08:49:04 AM
Quote from: Faldred
Meh.  If you want to program in Java, why not just program in Java?

Because I don't want to program in Java... :p
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: MJZ on April 06, 2007, 10:33:38 AM
Spot on, Gilshem. Completely on the same wavelength about this. <3

Quote from: Dorganath

And Linux...heh...they're so ashamed of that product they have to give it away... ;)

I don't mind calling Microsoft to the carpet for legitimate reasons, but let's all be honest with ourselves here and not just target them because they're Microsoft.

*Gasps very loudly and falls over*

Terrible, just terrible. Long live freeware and shareware!

No one's targeting MS for invalid reasons, here. When essentially the largest and wealthiest company in the world can't make an OS that functions properly and isn't absolutely riddled and teeming with bugs, issues, gaping holes, and various mysterious ailments - what else can you expect? Yep, all products have flaws, obviously. But flaws to this size and extent are what's shameful. You can't tell me you've never spent hellish days tinkering with winbloze incompetence until you just wanted to pour water over your motherboard and cackle viciously?

I've got a Mac-crazy sibling, myself, who loves to toss this one at me:

(http://klerann.joueb.com/images/mac%20vs%20pc_1.jpg)



Quote from: hawklen
I perfer KFC over MFC. Its finger linkin' good!

*spits out breakfast cereal laughing*


Edit:

Quote
If (and it's a big IF) Linux or MacOS (any version) had the same market penetration as Windows:
 
* People would bash them with equal fervor
* More malware writers would target those platforms.

I definitely see the logic here. However! Every malware writer I've ever heard of used a Unix-core OS, mostly Linux. Interesting...

More than once the only reason I rescued my HD was thanks to the Linux partition, which could retrieve the files on the Windows one when Windows couldn't even boot in due to those lovely critical errors that happen everyone once in a while. Like Gilshem said - built in obsolescence.  Bet you like your Ford veehicles, too! :D
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: MJZ on April 06, 2007, 10:36:12 AM
Gilshem, I agree with you entirely in this. <3

Quote from: MJZ
*Gasps very loudly and falls over*

Terrible, just terrible. Long live freeware and shareware!

No one's targeting MS for invalid reasons, here. When essentially the largest and wealthiest company in the world can't make an OS that functions properly and isn't absolutely riddled and teeming with bugs, issues, gaping holes, and various mysterious ailments - what else can you expect? Yep, all products have flaws, obviously. But flaws to this size and extent are what's shameful. You can't tell me you've never spent hellish days tinkering with winbloze incompetence until you just wanted to pour water over your motherboard and cackle viciously?

I've got a Mac-crazy sibling, myself, who loves to toss this one at me:

(http://klerann.joueb.com/images/mac%20vs%20pc_1.jpg)





*spits out breakfast cereal laughing*
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Laldiien on April 06, 2007, 11:20:10 AM
The irony for me is I am installing the Vista business upgrade while reading this.
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Dorganath on April 06, 2007, 12:17:31 PM
Quote from: MJZ
*Gasps very loudly and falls over*

Terrible, just terrible. Long live freeware and shareware!

No one's targeting MS for invalid reasons, here. When essentially the largest and wealthiest company in the world can't make an OS that functions properly and isn't absolutely riddled and teeming with bugs, issues, gaping holes, and various mysterious ailments - what else can you expect? Yep, all products have flaws, obviously. But flaws to this size and extent are what's shameful. You can't tell me you've never spent hellish days tinkering with winbloze incompetence until you just wanted to pour water over your motherboard and cackle viciously?

I'm a fan of Linux...and the MacOS.  I also like Windows.  Each serves its purposes, each has their warts and each has their holes, vulnerabilities and ailments.  I've used them all.  They're there.  Some people just choose not to see them.  And as I said before, Windows flaws are more well-known because there are far more installations of Windows than the MacOS or Linux, at least in professional environments, and so they're more highly scrutinized.  But I have seen plenty of articles about vulnerabilities in Linux (one distro or the other), MacOS and other systems.  

Again, most crashy behavior from Windows comes from third-party software.  We have servers here that run Windows and Microsoft software which have been very stable.  Most of my frustrations with Windows, or any OS, is due to poorly-behaving third-party software...or worse...poorly-behaving users who just accept any old virus that wants to install itself.

Quote
I definitely see the logic here. However! Every malware writer I've ever heard of used a Unix-core OS, mostly Linux. Interesting...

Oh sure.  Because they hate Microsoft. *shrugs* Another "productive" use of talent and energy that ends up wasting millions of dollars (translate into appropriate currency) and thousands of man-hours worth of time because someone has a chip on his shoulder...or thinks it would be "cool". :rolleyes:

Mentioning that malware writers use *nix doesn't exactly endear me to them or their "cause"...nor encourage me to look to Linux as a business or personal platform. In fact, I have far, far, far greater disdain for people who spend their time writing clever but destructive software for the purpose of destroying data, creating "zombie" machines or whatever than I do with any flaw, hurdle or bug that Microsoft has ever released in one of its products.

Take a guess which causes me and my customers more lost time and money?

And FWIW, when I was in college (15 or so years ago), 9 out of 10 viruses on campus were MacOS viruses. :p
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: MJZ on April 06, 2007, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: Dorganath
Most of my frustrations with Windows, or any OS, is due to poorly-behaving third-party software...or worse...poorly-behaving users who just accept any old virus that wants to install itself.
:O You're not implying something, are you? Heh. Viruses I haven't had much trouble at all with - just once when I had to reformat and the instant I connected to the internet in order to grab service packs and AVG, I would be ravaged by a regional LSASS thing. That was back in the age of 2k. Had to install some Mandrake and used that to download what I needed to even be able to install Windows. :P

Quote from: Dorganath
And FWIW, when I was in college (15 or so years ago), 9 out of 10 viruses on campus were MacOS viruses. :p

I was probably playing with my ponies back then so... heheh ;) Feel free to point and shout "greenhorn!" at me.


But sure, I'm not trying to say we should go for the OS "most virus scripters choose!" Gotta admit they're far less vulnerable, though.

And third-party software issues - makes sense. It just seems as though Windows purposefully tries to make itself incompatible with those, sometimes.

Edit: Ah but I understand your standpoint that it is more the fault of those who exploit the holes in MS products, than the fault of MS itself. Not saying it's my way of looking at it, but I understand now. : )
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Dorganath on April 06, 2007, 05:31:01 PM
Quote from: MJZ
But sure, I'm not trying to say we should go for the OS "most virus scripters choose!" Gotta admit they're far less vulnerable, though.


No, they're not far less vulnerable...they're far less exploited.  There's  a HUGE difference. It would be foolish for anyone to hide behind, "Oh, I'm running Linux. I don't have to worry."

But, we all take our risks.  :)
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: MJZ on April 06, 2007, 05:40:24 PM
Ah tomayto, tomahto. ;)

I know, I know, different strokes for different folks. Right?
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Weeblie on April 06, 2007, 05:47:50 PM
Neither Windows (old versions, at least, not sure about Vista... time will tell) nor Linux is created with security as top priority.

You have to step into the realm of... say... OpenBSD for that... ;)
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: diechotomy1 on April 06, 2007, 06:10:51 PM
This blog was wrote by another person but he shares a lot of the same views as I do so I put it on my myspace page, trust me its funny.  
Entitled One thing PC users can do that Mac users cant!

blog.myspace.com/44816394 (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=44816394&blogID=246477675&MyToken=98111532-412f-4949-99e0-94c88a7a05cd)

Yeah if easily offended dont read
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: hawklen on April 06, 2007, 07:40:27 PM
Quote from: diechotomy1
This blog was wrote by another person but he shares a lot of the same views as I do so I put it on my myspace page, trust me its funny.  
Entitled One thing PC users can do that Mac users cant!

blog.myspace.com/44816394 (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=44816394&blogID=246477675&MyToken=98111532-412f-4949-99e0-94c88a7a05cd)

Right click?

EDIT: BTW folks. Language warning on that link. Bad word in font size 28
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: MJZ on April 06, 2007, 09:36:41 PM
Erm... very enlightened spam, there. Anyone can just write a long, senseless flame in reaction to their frustrations. (And what epic proportions of frustrations, those were. If whoever wrote that gets that worked up about clothing in a commercial.. better keep him in the dark about everything else in the world.) Never even heard of any of the points in that entry, there. Angry idiocy doesn't really strike me as funny... well, unless it involves Homer.

Except for this part: "If I want to manufacture biological weapons with my copy of iTunes, I will, fascists. Ditch this b-bleep." Which is just oh-so-funny.
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: OneST8 on April 07, 2007, 12:01:29 AM
Ok folks, I wasn't bashing MS here, I was just posting a link to a story that I found funny. Nothing more, nothing less. I just want to be clear on that.

I really didn't mean to get under anyone's skin here! Sorry about that! :P
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: Talan Va'lash on April 07, 2007, 06:50:11 PM
Oh man, realtech sucks... Their junk has given me so much grief. I finally ripped an old SB Live! out of a P3 I have laying around and used that rather than the onboard realtech junk soundcard.

Quote from: MJZ
All the Vista nonsense is just too hilarious. It doesn't even make me smile. **Looks down at the "Vista Capable!" sticker on her laptop** I bought you for school when my PC's HD mysteriously died while I was on vacation! Nothing more!

Every other day I tell myself I've had enough of MS. Then I fire up Linux and groan about the new things I haven't yet learned, and boot back into MS. Laziness knows no bounds. (Or lack of time, however you want to put it.) Just a couple of days ago, I installed a vital MS security update. Which resulted in the destruction of my Realtech soundcard dll. Contact distributor for a new dll. Yep, I'll just call Realtech right up.

But whaddya mean, Adobe? Not Adobe!! PS is so... so... integral!!
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: hawklen on April 07, 2007, 06:54:41 PM
*hugs his Soundblaster Audigy2 ZS*
Title: Re: Microsoft Bait 'n Switch? Naaw, not Microsoft...
Post by: MJZ on April 07, 2007, 08:08:47 PM
Quote from: Talan Va'lash
Oh man, realtech sucks... Their junk has given me so much grief. I finally ripped an old SB Live! out of a P3 I have laying around and used that rather than the onboard realtech junk soundcard.


Yeah, I have SB hardware in my PC. But I can't exactly rip my laptop apart. And I didn't buy the laptop for the sound ;)
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