The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => Roleplaying => Topic started by: Witch Hunter on April 14, 2007, 11:57:38 AM
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The time has come yet again to ask a question of faith and the norm, brought to you by yours truly.
(NOTE NOTE NOTE: I will be using Aeridin as an example here but this applies to ANY god)
So, here we go.
I had a discussion with Weeblie regarding some of the favored stuff of our beloved god and well.. According to him it's disallowed to wear any other color than the color mentioned on the deity page.
Doesn't that sound a bit absurd? What, Aeridin would deny his powers from my cleric for not following his dressing code? What is he, the fashion police? (Note - this is valid for ANY god)
Let's have a look at the favored stuff:
In general, clerics of Aeridin prefer to wear white robes. They'll only don armor when absolutely necessary, and even then with great hesitation. However, if they do, they'll wear full plate, either coated with a layer of silver or - more rarely - made from mithril. Their armor is usually embossed with golden leaves.
Am I the only one that sees the flexibility with this? Why couldn't my cleric wear what he sees fit as long as he keeps it within the lines of the dogma? (Like, not wearing a robe with the symbol of Shadon and keeping his Golden Leaf amulet viable and nice)
So now I'm asking here, in the roleplay forum rather in the Aeridin forum because this applies to ALL faiths... Are clerics -FORCED- to wear the color the deity sees fit or risk losing the powers he grants them?
to sum it up... my question is; are we forced to wear the favored color?
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I sincerely doubt Aeridin (or any other gods for that matter) would smite down his followers if they dared to wear a brown or yellow robe instead of a blindingly white one. It does say "in general" after all, which is a bit more lenient than a line that says that they shun this or that. Then it's definitely a bit more severe, but as for clothing... I sincerely doubt it. We all know Paladins have it a bit more sternly than that, but that's not part of this issue.
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Well. If colours are prohibitive for a cleric according to the faith, I think it would say that. But all I've seen from the various deity pages is the word "prefer," so I would take it at that value. White is the chosen colour of Aeridin, so Aeridinites (and other clerics, like Witch I'm just using it as a placeholder) will often wear white for the obvious reasons - to easily recognize one another and be recognized by those in need of their god's wisdom and aid.
But I didn't think that had anything to do with prohibition. After all, a priest is clothe in his faith - I wouldn't think a god would care so much about the dye on a piece of fabric as to limit the powers of those who do not comply. I have never seen Aeridinites running around in full black robes with a skull-mask, anyways - if we're talking just about the colour of your tunic, I think it's extreme to say you must only wear the colour of your god. Correct me if I'm wrong, Sol'thas wears beige tones? That's pretty much white, I say.
Besides.. colours are beautiful!
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This is more about your own character than the god.
Why WOULD your character wear any other color than white?
A cleric is a cleric. A cleric is pretty much an extention of the god he or she follows. A cleric is wearing the color of the god's choice for recognition and in honor, just the reason of why the cleric is using the favoured weapon/armor of the deity also.
The third paragraph in a submission is there for a reason: To tell if your character is following the deity's practices and if not, why your character is not.
So, yes. I would say that the color you wear is equally important as why the weapon you wield has to follow the favoured one (if no good reason is given of why your character would not).
Same goes for Paladin's (even more so probably) but not necessary as for all the non-divine followers.
And, yes, this is mostly my own opinion and would require greater verification with L or Ed. But I would say with 85% certainity that this is the case as I have described it.
Edit: Wearing the wrong color will most probably not exclude you from faith. But add that action to some other actions that pushes you away from the deity, and the risk suddenly increases.
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Why WOULD your character wear any other color than white?
Same reason I don't in real life, doesn't suit him and he likes other colors better.
A cleric is a cleric. A cleric is pretty much an extention of the god he or she follows. A cleric is wearing the color of the god's choice for recognition and in honor.
Where does it state "Aeridins choice is white"? it says "In general, clerics of Aeridin prefer to wear white robes", that's our choice as clerics.
just the reason of why the cleric is using the favoured weapon/armor of the deity also.
So if a cleric is too weak to wear say... a full plate mail - he's not allowed to wear a chain shirt because it's not favored by Aeridin? Nu uh.
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OK....
It's not so much a matter of a deity being the "fashion police" as it is that a diety's followers, especially the clerics, should (note: should, not must) at least show some deference to the preferences of the deity over their own.
This is a show of Faith over personal preference and perhaps even personal comfort.
The "my character likes this better" excuse is rather thin, but it's generally OK for, say, and Aeridinite druid. A priest or paladin of the same should be more observant of a deity's wishes. For what it's worth, this "because he likes it better" excuse is also used to thinly justify the use of better weapons that reach outside the dogma of their gods. Again, this can be excused in characters who are not clerics, paladins or champions (as applicable), but for clergy and those divinely gifted, it is questionable.
I'll give you an example: My main character is a multiclassed sorcerer/fighter and a Lucindite. He could wear anything he wants, as he has all the armor proficiencies up through heavy. He could use any weapon he wants, as he pretty much has all those proficiencies as well. But he doesn't. He spends most of his time in plain clothes, ony wears armor that doesn't affect his spellcasting and spends 99% of the time he actually does fight using a quarterstaff. Regardless of what he's wearing, there's always at least some blue in the outfit. He could wear any color, he could use any weapon, but as a show of faith he stays in line with dogma.
And he's not a cleric, nor is he likely to be.
So no, no one's going to be the fashion police, though one should really take the time and consider whether or not it's good/proper RP for a cleric to say "Hmmm...no, my god's colors are just so bleh...I think I'll wear something else instead." There is flexibility, but one should also keep those guidlines firmly in view.
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I'm going to address this one specifically
So if a cleric is too weak to wear say... a full plate mail - he's not allowed to wear a chain shirt because it's not favored by Aeridin? Nu uh.
Um...Yes.
When your cleric character was approved, you had to agree to a statement about the deity's preferences regarding weapons, clothing and armor. A while back, we instituted a rule for character approval where a cleric would need to give a strong RP reason at the time of character submission to deviate from these strongly recommended preferences. If you did not, then yes...a chain shirt should not even be considered by your cleric character.
That is exactly how it is supposed to work. I'm sorry if this seems harsh and inflexible, but come on....is it really too much to expect that a cleric would respect the preferences of his/her deity?
I don't think it is.
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The "my character likes this better" excuse is rather thin, but it's generally OK for, say, and Aeridinite druid. A priest or paladin of the same should be more observant of a deity's wishes. For what it's worth, this "because he likes it better" excuse is also used to thinly justify the use of better weapons that reach outside the dogma of their gods. Again, this can be excused in characters who are not clerics, paladins or champions (as applicable), but for clergy and those divinely gifted, it is questionable.
I agree with everything you say but that doesn't answer the question of WHERE does it state that it's AERIDINS (or any other god) wish?
it's says generally the clerics wear white, sure - what about those that don't? generally doesn't include all.
You gave your personal example and I'll give mine:
My character, a cleric of Aeridin that follows most of the dogma (He has one exception which was approved on his submission). He helps others, he heals injured and aids ANYONE that asks for it (anyone being regardless of alignment or faith, coming from a point of view that anyone deserves a chance and anyone can change).
He is (or I'd like to think so) humble in his faith, he does not run around preaching it nor does he think the powers granted to him by Aeridin should be used ever so often to impress others (CDT for more), he heals using his own skills mostly and calls upon his god when needed.
He wears simple clothes and doesn't even wield a weapon, he does carry around his neck a holy symbol (and it states so in his description) and even has a holdable symbol he uses when he fights undead.
As far as he (and I) see it his faith is not measured by the dye of his clothes, he does as his god requires him so but he is quiet and humble about it.
It's not like his clothes are dyed red and black and he carries around a burning sword - heck he simply wears brown which is the color of earth, one of his domains too.
I asked what I did because Weeblie said unless I was approved to wear something else in my submission I -have to- wear white, I don't believe it to be so.
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Um...Yes.
When your cleric character was approved, you had to agree to a statement about the deity's preferences regarding weapons, clothing and armor. A while back, we instituted a rule for character approval where a cleric would need to give a strong RP reason at the time of character submission to deviate from these strongly recommended preferences. If you did not, then yes...a chain shirt should not even be considered by your cleric character.
Well -my cleric- already considered a chain shirt and was approved for one in his submission.
The question was however a general question regarding any cleric.
So let me understand this - if a character is to weak (low str) he may not wear an armor that suits his strength if he wasnt approved for it?..
If it was Corath I'd understand, but a good like Aeridin? we're putting the clerics life in risk here and I doubt a good god would allow harm to touch his devoted follower - if the cleric can't take the weight of a full plate he can't go for something lighter? sounds a bit silly - and yes, very very very harsh.
Would a good deity like Aeridin or Ilsare smite his follower for being too weak to mount whatever armor they prefer? duh.
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Armor too heavy to carry around? That's what the blessings of your deity are for.
Bull's Strength, anyone?
Aeridin provides. ;)
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Don't take this the wrong way, but I really wish people would not always try and split an already thin, grey line.
The clergy of Aeridin, or any deity for that matter, does not possess a letter from Aeridin saying "I'd really like it if you all would wear white. Thanks, A" It is a belief and a show of faith based on interpretation of dogma (which by the way is longer than what is posted in LORE). What you should recognize is that if the summary of dogma and the preferences stated in that summary reflect what is believed to be true.
It boils down to this...if your character's deity has a preference for a particular color, you should at least make the attempt to respect that color choice. So for example, brown robes might be OK, but it would seem an appropriate thing to encorporate white into the color scheme.
But please...let's concentrate on the intent (i.e. the spirit of the rule) of these color preferences and not dissect the exact wording, letter by letter, of what is said. I think we all understand what is intended.
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Alright so for further reference - if a character wants to wear different colors he has to mention so in his submission?
From what I understood from Weeblie it's disallowed completely - from what I understand from you there is SOME flexibility?
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Do you see Catholic priests wearing flaming orange robes with tiger stripes on them and maybe a Rolling Stones big tongue logo on the back? No, at least I dont think you do. Would it be cooler? Dunno, maybe. But it just isnt done.
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I've cleared out what I had to ask with Dorg in private, this discussion can be deleted or left open for others to read but I'm not getting involved anymore :p
*keeps his brown outfit*
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Do you see Catholic priests wearing flaming orange robes with tiger stripes on them and maybe a Rolling Stones big tongue logo on the back? No, at least I dont think you do. Would it be cooler? Dunno, maybe. But it just isnt done.
I wish I did. Heh.
I've always seen the colour deal as A) identification and B) representation of the ideals of the deity...
For example, Aeridin is the Lifebringer, and positive energy typically looks blue and gold - cast a Cure Serious, then /o *casts*. Light colours? White, the polar opposite of black (the colour typically associated with death, as well as Corath)?
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Do you see Catholic priests wearing flaming orange robes with tiger stripes on them and maybe a Rolling Stones big tongue logo on the back?
Heh heh heh..
Well, that's very true. But Catholic priests don't go around in their get-up when they're walking down the street to buy a peach from the local shopkeep, normally. There is a difference between ceremonial wear, and what you'd put on when trudging through the swamps. On that note, white is a very inconvenient colour, for an adventurer. After a few hours, that pristine robe would be painted red. And I'm not talking raspberry jam, here. ;)
But I'm completely on the same wavelength as Stephen, about this issue. Since it is a dogmatic colour, priests and priestesses should and are going to be wearing it. But I don't see any problem with one elven cleric preferring brown instead. =)
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What if your cleric is colour blind?
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Alright so for further reference - if a character wants to wear different colors he has to mention so in his submission?
From what I understood from Weeblie it's disallowed completely - from what I understand from you there is SOME flexibility?
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It's as much disallowed as it is disallowed to use non-favoured weapons, I would think. The later being disallowed unless one states it in the 3rd point in the submission.
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Ah yep, the character submission seems the right place to do it, but in this case, the question of the space between "preferred" and "prohibited" came in after nine levels.
But you know what they say! Nothing is impossible, because, impossible itself says I M Possible... ;)
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This also brings up... what is to "wear a specific color"?
A white robe is only... mostly white... not completely white.
I would call someone wearing a 100% white robe for a fanatic. :P
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Clerics and paladins have to be able to justify non-standard armor and weapon choices in their character bios at submission time. Colors are a little more subjective, but the preferences of the deity should be respected in terms of colors. Let's use common sense and good judgement here.
Champions should be in lock-step with deity preferences. This actually came up very recently, and the RP reason for deviating from the prefered weapon for a paladin was not sufficient for the same deviation for a Champion.
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I think saying a cleric wears preferred colors for reason of dogma is a bit dry.
I highly suspect that many clerics on Layonara are played by people that have very little in the way of RL spiritual believes or ummm, not a spiritual belief that is consistent to a poly-theological culture.
Thus I feel that clerics on Layonara are often missing the single minded and obsessive devotion to their deities. Essentially a cleric has completely submitted their life and soul to the devotion of a diety, and to further that deities will on the world. That being said, any cleric should want to wear the colors of their deity because they love their deity and their deities colors. If you grew up raised by a priest of Aeridin, and you have come to resent the color because your character has been overwhelmed by it all his life, then you darn sure are not going to let any of the other priests know you feel that way, because that might make them think you are less devote, and be prone to ridicule you in public, or talk bad about you behind your back. It may not sound mature or fair, but priests are kind of stupid like that.
Aeon Blues
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I totally agree with you there AeonBlues.....
I do try to play my cleric with the devotion you speak of and the attitude you speak of.
I also agree that this level of devotion is miss in general.
Remember people...your god gifts you with your abilities.....if you are not completely devoted to them.....Why would they? They can tell you know.
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The clergy of Aeridin, or any deity for that matter, does not possess a letter from Aeridin saying "I'd really like it if you all would wear white. Thanks, A"
While the cleric is unlikely to have a note from Aeridin regarding colour (but he may have on excusing him games lessons) you also have to realise not merely that a cleric follows his deity but he also follows the rules of his church.
We know the deities of Layo are really pretty poor with letting their worshippers know what's going. Toran for example has never manifested himself in my lounge asked for a cup of coffee and explained how he would like me to dress so I don't clash with the wallpaper in his lounge.
He does however have a church. And churches are pretty good at making rules. They are also good at making sure those who have 'heard the call' obey those rules. As a cleric you are part of the set hierarchy of your church and are expected to abide by its rules.
Nowhere in the bible does it say, "You shalt wear cardboard or plastic dog-collars even though may make you look like thou hast hamster cheeks and itch mightily". Priests wear them because they are part of the church ordained uniform.
And if you think well hell to the church, I don't need them, well bad news. Throughout history various churches have come down hard on break away sects. Never heard of the tiger-strip wearing Catholics? That's because of the Inquisition.
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That doesn't work so well when you look at the churches, of, say, Shadon or Aeridin, but...
The dogmatic issues I discussed above (for Aeridin) hold true, and one could come up with equally applicable reasonings behind the colours of all the rest.
Heck, my character isn't even an official member of the admittedly very loose church of Aeridin, and he holds to the dogma better than a good half of the Aeridinites I've seen in-game. *Chuckles.* But then, there's the difference between career priests and career adventurers.
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hawk wears gaudy purple armor adorned with flashy gems. does that count?
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I'm with Stephen in that it's not about rules of the church. The pantheon is more of a chaotic bent then a lawful one at the moment and some clerics are not even formally trained at a temple to be given such unnecessary paperwork. How many of these more chaos oriented followers would stick around in a temple that put a lock on their wardrobe?
I'm not disagreeing about clerics and colors, just my two cents that "temple rules" aren't a good reason, hehe. The means of identifying oneself as a cleric of x, and out of devotion to the deity itself (not necessarily the paperwork involved with it) seems more likely.
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While the cleric is unlikely to have a note from Aeridin regarding colour (but he may have on excusing him games lessons) you also have to realise not merely that a cleric follows his deity but he also follows the rules of his church.
We know the deities of Layo are really pretty poor with letting their worshippers know what's going. Toran for example has never manifested himself in my lounge asked for a cup of coffee and explained how he would like me to dress so I don't clash with the wallpaper in his lounge.
He does however have a church. And churches are pretty good at making rules. They are also good at making sure those who have 'heard the call' obey those rules. As a cleric you are part of the set hierarchy of your church and are expected to abide by its rules.
Nowhere in the bible does it say, "You shalt wear cardboard or plastic dog-collars even though may make you look like thou hast hamster cheeks and itch mightily". Priests wear them because they are part of the church ordained uniform.
Exactly.
And in addition, most clerics would want people to be able to identify them at a glance (of course, some exceptions, like for example corathites). It's a way of identifying yourself without having to say anything first.
So to stick with the example: Aeridinites are Healers, people know "people fully dressed in white are probably Aeridinites and I can get my injuries/disease healed".
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yanno, i saw some examples of real life religion, and in general, real life preists wear what ever they like when they aren't at church. It was the same thing back in the time that Layo is set at too, except for some fanatics.
I don't think a cleric/priest should be forced to wear/weild anything outside of the church. Maybe they jsut can't get a good grip with a hammer, or they don't like using blades, it feels too much like a murder weapona dn they'd rather not look at their work that way. But i would say completely in the church or during a clerical durty, that they would most deffinatly use the weapon and the colors that the dogma interprets as their diety's favorites.
As for colors, i really don't believe in wearing one color at all time. The only reason Tath does it is cuz he's a tribal man and is used to only having one set of clothing. Maybe the majority of the time they would wear that color, but hoenstly they would get tired of wearing the same thing every day, and some days wear blue cuz it was their favorite color growing up.
I think what people are forgeting is that Clerics aren't always super devoted. That's why we have level one clerics and level 20 clerics. I know if i had a level 20 cleric, he'dw ear what he liked and used what he liked still being a new anitiate of the faith (he has to be otherwise he'd be mroe than jsut a level 1 cleric) I also wanna point out that everyday is differnt, and that people get urges, no matter who they are, to try something differe. Whether it's a new hair style, a different color shirt, maybe a different array of spells, or event ry to say a word different. it's in the nature.
While ir espect that this is a fanstasy video game, the server prides itself on realistic rp, and anyone wearing and using one type of anything just cuz their dogma likes it doesn't soudn realistic at all to me, in fact i don't know anyone or ever heard of anyone in real life doing such a thing.
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This isn't RL...this is fantasy...and if the god providing your powers, who you should be super devoted to as they grant you those powers has a favored weapon and colour I fail to see why a cleric wouldn't want to wear those colours or use that weapon.
As Dorganath has stated...clerics wishing to deviate from the standard weapons and armour have to justify it in their bio.
Let's remember people....your god can remove your powers if they are not happy with you.
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I would agree with the clothes part of what you say. Outside of church would be fine. But I am not sure if this would apply to the choice of weapons that they weild in some circumstances.
Take for example a cleric of Aeridin. In LORE and the handbook, it says that Aeridinite clerics shun the use of bladed weapons/piercing weapons such as swords and spears...so why would they want to use it outside the church when it affects their core belief?
I don't think a cleric/priest should be forced to wear/weild anything outside of the church. Maybe they jsut can't get a good grip with a hammer, or they don't like using blades, it feels too much like a murder weapona dn they'd rather not look at their work that way. But i would say completely in the church or during a clerical durty, that they would most deffinatly use the weapon and the colors that the dogma interprets as their diety's favorites.
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I would agree with the clothes part of what you say. Outside of church would be fine. But I am not sure if this would apply to the choice of weapons that they weild in some circumstances.
Take for example a cleric of Aeridin. In LORE and the handbook, it says that Aeridinite clerics shun the use of bladed weapons/piercing weapons such as swords and spears...so why would they want to use it outside the church when it affects their core belief?
well if their dogma specifically shuns the weapon then ya of course, it's part of their dogma to shun it. it's like shunnign necromancy and thenr aising skeletons.
but if the weapon isn't shuned, then i don't see wy they couldn't use it just cuz it isn't "in style" with their fellow clerics. Personally, i don't see preference of weapon as a way to scale one's faith. acts not appearance should determine strength of faith. not all people can even use every weapon. Dorand is the god of crafting, and his favor wep is the axe or hammer. That might make sence for armor smithers, but what about brewers? ring crafters? glass molders? nothing says they have to be strong, or even able to use a hammer. A monk/cleric of Dorand wouldn't have the proficiencies.
by prefered, i think it should mean exactly that prefered, or favored. not looked down apon, or needs special explaination for or any of that. jsut means they don't practice that. not every christian practices every christian practice, not every budhists practices every buddhist practice, not ever jewish man practices every jewish practice. it's all personal beliefs, and none of it determines who has more faith than the other, it jsut means they do this and others do that.
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Okay, I know I'm new here but I've got some thoughts on the whole thing.
I just made a second character, a paladin of Rofirein. I stated in my bio that he uses a bastard sword and wears full plate. Well, okay, that's all well and good. I take my feat to weild a bastard sword, which I'm more than happy to do, and I dish out the chunk of change for the weapon, which is significant at first level. Now I go over to the armorer, oh, guess what, copper full plate is almost 2000 trues. Guess which first level character doesn't have that much? Yes, thats' me. So I buy a tower shield and the only armor I can afford, studded leather.
Should I go around with a sword, shield and nothing but a robe until I save enough to wear full plate? Because I tell you I wouldn't survive long enough to do so unless it was gifted to me or some high level characters took me around with them and just told me to stand in the back. I could also see a cleric of the same god not wanting to use a bastard sword because of the feat requirement. Granted, come up with an in game reason to mask your own player reasons for doing so.
As far as colors, I have been a catholic my entire life and I hold a degree in history with a roman and medieval concentration. Throughout the history of catholicism there have been different camps as to the interpretations of church dogma, even though the faith benefits from one central figure who can decide if he wishes to(something Layonara lacks) the pope doesn't always make such rulings because he understands the split within the church. You also have to look at the different sects within the religion. Putting Real Life in DnD terms a friar or a monk in the catholic tradition falls under the cleric PC class or the priest NPC one. Well, of the hundreds of sanctioned monastic orders in catholic history, all have had there own dress codes and preferences while worshipping the same god.
Looking at the current incarnation of the church, there is a dress code. Certain holidays and feast seasons require certain colors. When not in these seasons priests are still recommended to wear certain colors at certain times of year. Now, if you've ever regularly attended a catholic church you'll find that the local priest has a favorite set of robes he normally wears, recommendation be damned. Whether this is due to lack of funds for more robes or an attatchment to a certain set, you'll find few priests that follow the dress code to a T. If you want to say they're less spiritual for this I want you to go talk to a priest who has served for 30 years through chastity, poverty and many other sacrafices. Before you say that it's easier to do what you want when you don't have powers granted to you by your diety I'd remind you that a priest truly believes he turns bread and wine into the body and blood of their god and that they serve as vessels of God's forgiveness.
My two cents.
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Yes, but by the same token, there's a difference between "believes he turns bread and wine into body and blood" and "watches as the wrath of his god kills his attackers before his eyes", or "watches as wounds close instantly under the healing balm of his god-given powers".
There is a difference between faith in the Unseen, and faith in the Obviously Present.
In addition, in our society, there's somewhat less competition between churches for followers - if you're in a society where the number of followers your church has increases the power of your God... well, you're likely going to advertise as much as you possibly can.
If you can't afford the regalia... that's forgiven (at least by the good gods. ;) ), but if you choose not to tow the line? You're likely to be confronted with a rather angry orthodox... Rofireinite. ;)
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I wish real life religions would not be brought up as comparison so often, because they are very different for the reasons darkstorme pointed out. The clerics in Layonara have real, difficult-to-deny deities with presences in the world, that actually grant them divine abilities; they are literally conduits of the gods. No matter how faithful one is to a RL religion, it does not compare, because this is fantasy.
Identification doesn't matter too much in life, either, no matter how devout one is. There are standard things for when they need to be identified as priests of their faith, yes, but for the most part who cares, right? In Layonara clerics are always working for the church when they're out and about, as they're traveling in service to their deities and pursuing their faith.
No one is demanding that everyone be able to afford equipment right away, how would we even manage that? Ideally someone trained in the temple would already HAVE the beginning equipment, but for balancing purposes that is unlikely to happen.
There are several characters that are not strictly in line with dogma requirements for equipment, because it was written out in submission. Colors and such are no different, that's all that was really defined here. "One would need a really good reason."
Edit - I think I just repeated everything darkstorme said, except less efficiently. :(
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I think some people are interpreting the word "favoured" as "must" which is not correct. Other people are interpreting the same word as "if one feels for it" which is not accurate either in this situation.
Not all clerics of Aeridin wear white robes nor does all clerics of Aeridin wield quarterstaffs.
What is required, though, is that one states it in one's submission. It's not difficult to get approved for an alternative weapon/armor/color, surely not to the same level as language ears, but just as Acacea said (wrote rather!) there should be a reason for it, which is what's being asked for, really!
It is not to justify why your character is choosing as he chooses, but rather to justify why your characters is not choosing what's perceived as normal. A small difference, but a significant one... :)
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Keep in mind that while you may be able to dress down while adventuring, the churches will often be much more strict when you're attending/performing actual temple services. Joe the Priest might be able to kick back and look good in whatever he wants Monday-Saturday, but he's likely to be excommunicated if he shows up to church Sunday morning, leading the Nicene Creed in a Hooters Tshirt and speedos. It's also a bad idea for him to represent the Catholic Church dressed down when asked to perform public events, like meeting the President or visiting an international mission and giving a speech on behalf of the church. It's mostly a matter of how public and official the business is that warrants whether or not a priest is in uniform. It's not so much of a "what does my God want" question, but a "will I be politely asked to leave if I show up to church wearing this" one. The obvious pitfall of dressing down as a priest is that other people of your faith will doubt that you're even a priest, or worse, they might call you a heretic and sling stones at you for blasphemy.
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On that note, white is a very inconvenient colour, for an adventurer. After a few hours, that pristine robe would be painted red.
In PnP clerics have a spell that would clean it.
Or was that to fix it if it ripped... hrmm, I think they had both.
You're likely to be confronted with a rather angry orthodox... Rofireinite.
Thats me.
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In PnP clerics have a spell that would clean it.
Or was that to fix it if it ripped... hrmm, I think they had both.
Actually, just to fix it, but I would think that if they soaked it, hit it with a Purify Water, then dried it out, it'd be good as new.
Prestidigitation :: d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prestidigitation.htm)
A wizard spell that allows you to clean or soil materials... Sorry, not a cleric one.
Mending :: d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mending.htm)
The cleric/wizard/everyone else spell that lets you, well, mend things.
Though, honestly, I would allow a cleric to use the cleaning aspect of Prestidigitation if they had prepared a Mending and used that. Rather than fix, they could clean. Seems reasonable, and not out of line with clerical abilities.
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I think the Aeridenites wear white robes because they're naive about adventuring. It's their idealistic task to try and parley peace with every vile beast they meet, save for undead, since ALL life, even monster lie is sacred. The concept of being drenched in blood doesn't really occur to them; if they expected an adventure to be such a bloodbath, they would likely be unwilling to join the group. On the plus side, an unarmored man with a staff isn't likely to be outright feared by an opposing army, and they would probably be allowed to enter an enemy camp peacefully under guard to discuss ways to end the standoff without bloodshed. So aye, they would have to clean and mend their robes a lot being foolish enough to wade into war with them, but it's not like they can't just do that the mundane way with a tub of soapy water, clothesline, needle and thread. As they usually don't spend day after day training to be battle wary, they should have plenty of time to master such menial tasks.
Playing such a cleric should be almost impossible to level unless you kept taking him out on quests, in which case he should always be begging the group to find a peaceful solution to everything. It's tough going on a NWN server when hacknslash is a necessary evil to advance in level, but it can be done and the GM Quest xp awards are pretty hefty. A smart Aeridenite would buddy up with a mage who can cast invisibility to sit back and keep healing folk in safety. That method beats the Trickery Domain cleric build hands down, as Healing, Good and Sun domains are ultimately devastating to undead and demons who the aeridenites would have no problem smiting on sight.
Note: It would be pretty funny RPing an Aeridenite washing his robes after battle too. Weeping for the fallen, begging forgiveness from his god for his part in it, and obsessedly scrubbing out the spots & screaming at them like in Macbeth.
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I'd just like to add my part:
I see the wearing of colours as a guide, and representation of the God/Deity followed. Yes these colours should be worn by a cleric of the faith, but I really don't think it should be enforced upon the player. It is their choice how they play their characters at the end of a day.
When playing as Ranéwin, usually she wears something with Red when visiting the temple/Minaret of Symphony, to show respect, and also helps others to see that she is part of Ilsare's church.
This does not mean she is not going to change her garments ever. Sometimes Ranéwin will wear colours she normally wouldn't, but when she does it's not like shes turning her back on her faith or anything.
And there are points with characters, where they would prefer not to noticed, so will cover up representations from time to time (rarely) to avoid confrontations with people/npc's so on.
Wearing colours should still be part of the Dogma, but shouldn't be forced. As it does help create a definition for the deity, and makes spotting clerics of certain faith's very easy. Example I'd give, Celgar - Luncindate, and very very clearly so.....infact, has anyone ever seen him in something other than Blue?
Serissia and Mylindra are two other examples for the church of Rolfirien, so please, do wear your deities colours, but don't feel like you are being poked and prodded constantly not to change your clothing.
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Playing such a cleric should be almost impossible to level unless you kept taking him out on quests, in which case he should always be begging the group to find a peaceful solution to everything
Hardly impossible, look at one of our first epic clerics, Athus Dephilie, cleric of Aeridin, succeeded his ECDQ (from before the time we had WLDQs) and was very good at following the dogma. Don't think I ever saw him hurt anything apart from undead.
I think some people are interpreting the word "favoured" as "must" which is not correct. Other people are interpreting the same word as "if one feels for it" which is not accurate either in this situation.
I've tried to clarify this in the next handbook release.