The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => Roleplaying => Topic started by: Tanman on May 03, 2007, 10:01:22 AM
-
I thought I would like to highlight something in the scheme of things. That is this is primarily a Roleplay Server and as such there are a diverse number of personalities here ranging from the normal personalities to the quirky. There are times when there are good alignments and evil alignments.
As such, not everyone is going to be normal...not everyone is going to be good and be helpful or be polite.
What I am concerned about is that some people do take this personally and such that their characters reactions or the overall party may react OOCly, sometimes in a negative way and against what their characters are about...that the player has to change their character whole demeanour just so that they can join within groups or meet with new people. I think this is very sad, because it is losing part of what Layonara is about. That we lose the interaction between different types of personalities. I enjoy now roleplaying with people with quirky/nasty personalities because it means I can fully RP my character how they would act and enjoy the reactions.
Now granted. . .there are going to be cases where where there maybe some characters that do reject the said person...and that maybe reflected IC. I accept that. I guess what I am trying to say is that when playing your character...don’t take offence when a character does act like that...and act as what your character would respond rather than what you will respond.
-
I remember being kicked from a party several times for being disagreeable as Key. I won't place names about it, because it's not worth the drama that comes from that. However, I will point out that going on talking in party after you continue to boot someone is quite possibly one of the biggest faux pas of the roleplaying realm.
I've seen Layonara go from a great interaction of characters to a place where roleplaying is defined by "Hello.", "Farewell.", and the brief monster slaying between the two statements. Or, "Hello, do you have item X?" after confirming the sale via tells. Or any other possible circumstance I can moan about.
It is the backstabbing, finger pointing, name calling, and rushing to GMs to complain that comes from hostile or atleast non-friendly interaction that gets to me. It all comes from an imagined conversation between to users pretending to be other people. I honestly don't get it.
-
Then you made the right choice by leaving. Good luck in all you do, and may you find contentment.
-
I know, I don't take personally what people might say or how they might treat my characters. However, I also try to send a tell to someone when for instance Dalan isn't particularily friendly or talkative. When Erk died, he had little to say to anyone. Or if what appears to be a half giant is in Port Hempstead area, he might have little to do with the character and even ignore it. Dalan figures that is better then pulling his axe out and trying to kill a hated enenmy in the city. The "tell" is to let the character know why he acted the way he did. Personally I hate being rude to people even in game, but I also try to play Dalan consistenly.
-
I know, I don't take personally what people might say or how they might treat my characters. However, I also try to send a tell to someone when for instance Dalan isn't particularily friendly or talkative. When Erk died, he had little to say to anyone. Or if what appears to be a half giant is in Port Hempstead area, he might have little to do with the character and even ignore it. Dalan figures that is better then pulling his axe out and trying to kill a hated enenmy in the city. The "tell" is to let the character know why he acted the way he did. Personally I hate being rude to people even in game, but I also try to play Dalan consistenly.
In my opinion, that's really part of the key of maintaining good player-to-player relations when situations arise where characters aren't always the nicest and most helpful of folks towards others. Let the other player know OOC in a tell why your character acted the way they did and reassure them it's nothing personal against them as another player.
-
RPing is not an excuse to be hateful, disrespectful and down right mean towards other people. You can claim that it is 'all in character' all you want, but a lot of it stems from hiding behind your PC.
Going to IRC and slamming on people and on how they are playing their characters is NOT the characteristic of the PC. Comments in journals, forums and IRC are is backstabbing, immature, self-righteous, self-center, uncalled for and it promotes bad feelings.
IC debates, arguements and such are okay as long as both parties are in agreement. Once hard feelings are voice (OOCly) then it should stop. Anyone can call 'cease fire' once they are no longer enjoying the game and having fun.
"Please don't be offended OOC by IC personalities/behaviours"
Then keep it IC...IG...from PC to PC!
-
Then you made the right choice by leaving. Good luck in all you do, and may you find contentment.
You know I can't start to phantom on how you can go and say something like that. He is right that the people must think about what is IC and what is OOC and not bother the Gm all the time without reasons, because their char got verbalised by an other char.
When you get into a heated RP with someone, you do have to take a step back and tell your self that this is a game, its RPing diferences with people and if you have a doubt that it is not talk with the persone first.
-
I would say that going and putting the event ICly in your journal is not a bad thing. It only reflects the life of you character and this is what the journals are for, as long a you don't comment in someone else journal that is.
-
Can I add something about tells? Because I think a certain amount of.. not hostility, but maybe tension comes from tells between players "correcting" each other. So this is kind of my wish list for tell etiquette when it comes to slip-ups and little infractions. Not talking about if you come across someone doing something really wrong, this is more about relatively little things such as breaking character or a very minor server rule.
- If it's a very minor slip and you know the person doesn't usually do that (like an obvious typo or only one slash for OOC) then just let it go.. At least wait until you see it happen twice to see if it's a pattern.. There's a difference between being helpful and being nitpicky..
- Be very polite, if not downright friendly.. Remember they aren't expecting this message.. It's a little jarring when it's unexpected and it's natural to be confused, they may not even remember what you're talking about..
- If they defend or explain themselves properly don't push it, you made your point. If they get angry or obstinate let it go, some people can't be reasoned with (not most, fortunately, but a few.)
- If, like most would if you're polite and friendly, they just say "sorry" or something similar then it's nice to follow with an "it's okay" or "i make mistakes too".. There's nothing worse to me than dead silence after i apologize...
- If you're in a dangerous situation and it can wait.. Then let it wait!
- Or if you're in a big group where there's lots of conversations going on at once, or if some role play magic is happening, and it can wait.. Then maybe it should.. A discussion in tells tends to bring everything to a halt and I've seen it ruin a great IC conversation.
- If this is your first contact with that person this will be a lasting impression. If you are friendly, polite and speaking as a fellow player who's learned a few lessons and made a few mistakes yourself (as I think most of us are) then you will likely make a friend from this. If you are cold and rude then they will note you as someone to avoid..
Remember this is just kind dof a wish list.. I'm not saying this is how it has to be.. But it's how I try to do it and how I greatly prefer it when I get a tell. Talking on the computer is not like in person, and it's very easy to mistake the "tone" of their voice or take something the wrong way, and I don't think that is always taken into consideration by either party. It's something I had to learn myself of course.. I'm not saying I haven't made these mistakes..
All that said I don't sense the negativity and hostility that's being talked about.. If anything I'm constantly amazed this group of strangers works together as well as it does. Of course some unpleasant people will pass through but that's true of any "scene." I really like Layo and many of the people I met, and am still making new friends, and I would hate to see it go away.. This is a pretty special place-- I know this is a weird analogy but I tell people it's like an Indie Rock version of a game like game like Warcraft, meaning it's smart and really well made but with a certain roughness and human touch that gives it a real charm.. If you have any idea what I mean because now I don't..
Oh.. One last thing, and I'm guilty of it myself.. If you are in a bad mood and not in the mood to interact with others, then perhaps it's not a good time to be playing a game that is almost entirely about interacting with others. The same goes if you're on too long and getting frustrated for one reason or another. Go shoot some zombies instead.
-
My character is catty, disrespectful, and downright hostile with quite a few other characters. Does that mean I feel the same way he does about the players? Of course not; there's no reason to think that my character's feelings are mine, even if Pyyran's personality is nearly a mirror of my own.
What it boils down to is that the hostility is all IC, and, if I suspect anyone might be walking away from it with thoughts to the contrary, a little Tell with "Great RP!" is usually enough to settle that.
The biggest thing I loved about Layo was the separation of IC and OOC... Still do. It's great. But let's try keeping things obviously separated, even for those for whom the line is finer between player and PC.
-
I agree with your point Stephen. I usually try to shoot a private tell to the new guys and gals if I think they have a bad interaction with my PC to let them know it's only IC. It usually breaks the ice well and leaves no bad feelings.
-
I think there is another side of this coin too: If your PC is abrasive, rude, demonstrating insanity, inept at working as part of the team, etc. etc., you need to understand that the RP road you are toeing is a tough one. You should fully expect that if your first impression on a PC is negative, they may very well ICly ignore and avoid that PC going forward. Forever!
Now don't get me wrong, sometimes RPing with these types of PCs can be fun. It always takes a lot of OOC work, though, and attention to RP detail. At least for me it does since I want to be "on top of my game," so to speak. The times I don't feel up to this level OOCly, I avoid the abrasive PC. It's not meant as OOC meanness, it's honestly more a level of respect to the other player.
My point is that if you're playing an "odd" PC and are easily offended OOCly by perceptions generated ingame, you need to reconsider how often you play that PC. Perhaps make a backup team-oriented PC for when it gets rough and you need a friendly break.
I have the utmost respect for the players of goblins/drow/orc/evil/crazy PCs. If you can't handle the heat, though, better step out of the fire.
-
Sometimes all that's needed is a quick Tell with :) on
Hawklen, Hardragh....not only does Sall take abuse from them....but he gives it too. But inbetween the insults and the mocking, through a few :) or "hehe" in Tells....just helps remind them its nothing personal, it's just my character dont like yours.
Daralith....not sure why he don't like Sall....hehe....though I can venture a guess. But again, few Tell's makes the nasty swipes more fun.
Another one comes to mind is Katrina....who's constant badgering of my character almost lead to him being locked up or actually causing her physical harm. For nearly an hour I told her to "bugger off" and that " I dont want your bloody cloak!" ... but inbetween were chuckles and laughs all around.
But as P n P says.... if your RPing some character who is dislikable or says and does nasty things.....expect the standard reaction to be disliked.
-
Another one comes to mind is Katrina....who's constant badgering of my character almost lead to him being locked up or actually causing her physical harm. For nearly an hour I told her to "bugger off" and that " I dont want your bloody cloak!" ... but inbetween were chuckles and laughs all around.
But as P n P says.... if your RPing some character who is dislikable or says and does nasty things.....expect the standard reaction to be disliked.
You hit the nail on the head when you say everyone is having a ball. THAT is what Layonara is about. Having fun.
Its not so much being disliked. Sure your character maybe disliked "IC". Does that really mean that characters will be excluded in an OOC fashion? Does that mean because a character is evil aligned or quirky that you think nuh huh...Not going to join up with them.
It may do. But one HAS to make sure that its an IC decision. I feel that a lot of the time...people take it way too seriously and think "Man that character is mean....must be the player so forget about RP with that said person."
I had a few encounters with Daralith with my little halfling. Sure my character got the Daralith treatment *winks to Drizzlin* and zapped. Does my halfling want to be near Daralith? Maybe she is kinda curious. Would I want to RP with Daralith again? Most definitely. Did I think the experience was horrible? No! I loved every minute of it. It was fun.
Sometimes its the annoying characters that give you the most enjoyable RP fun all round.
-
Oh, amen to that, Tanman. Kinai hates Daralith but he's so great to roleplay with, I keep getting her into more and more trouble :) Eventually though, she'll get her revenge, muahahah!
The thing for the rude characters also is to know a line. Yes, be rude, be hateful, it's more fun, but don't do it in a way that blows off another character unless it's a real IC decision. You know, I'd like to roleplay with everyone, rude or not, but when they say something rude and walk off and the pattern continues, it does get sort of confusing.
Of course, Tells lessen it, but do realize some people actually -want- to roleplay with your mean and abrasive characters! That's how Kinai got to know Dur'Thak, at least :D
Not telling people to make them play nicer, no, but I think leaving the two characters with an impression that another encounter can be made would be nice.
But maybe I'm just rambling again...
-
On those rare occassions I actually get to play these days... one of my best RP sessions in a while was with a "rude" and "obnoxious" Tiefling, who gave my character a lot of (in-game) grief, though the favor was immediately returned. Some nice tells were exchanged after the fact conforming that while the characters didn't like each other, the players were having a good time.
And that's what it's all about.
-
I have been receiving tells that criticize my RP. Basically telling me that my character should be more of a team player. Some players say that I as a player has changed because Cymeran Vrinn was a kind and compassionate character that would lay down his life to save anyone. Or tells that criticize my RP of Nyeaeana because he is often indifferent about the survival of other characters.
I guess the thing is, a lot of players have a stereotype of how a druid is suppose to behave. My character is not a Katia druid, he's a Kithairien druid, and that is a whole other breed of druids.
I don't appreciate receiving OOC criticism at all. It makes me OOCly mad. If your character has an issue with my characters behavior, please keep it IC.
AeonBlues
-
I have been receiving tells that criticize my RP. Basically telling me that my character should be more of a team player. Some players say that I as a player has changed because Cymeran Vrinn was a kind and compassionate character that would lay down his life to save anyone. Or tells that criticize my RP of Nyeaeana because he is often indifferent about the survival of other characters.
I guess the thing is, a lot of players have a stereotype of how a druid is suppose to behave. My character is not a Katia druid, he's a Kithairien druid, and that is a whole other breed of druids.
I don't appreciate receiving OOC criticism at all. It makes me OOCly mad. If your character has an issue with my characters behavior, please keep it IC.
AeonBlues
*nods* We've known each other for awhile. And I get along with your druid fine, except when he "Ha HA!'s" ;) I just want to hurt him. Btw, i perfer this kind of druid, who doesnt get offended when I pee on a tree.
-
I would say that going and putting the event ICly in your journal is not a bad thing. It only reflects the life of you character and this is what the journals are for, as long a you don't comment in someone else journal that is.
Not to mention that if you want to achieve certain things, such as evil alignments, you have to show how and why your pc is moving towards those things.
@twidget658
The evil/mean acts of my pc in NO way reflect who I am behind the keyboard. I volunteer with the youth in my community as a soccer referee and football coach. I volunteer at the local hospital and I'm a waiting for medical school to start. I spend my free time helping others and giving back.
The time I spend in the game is my creative RP/acting side that has nothing to do with my real life.
-
I have been receiving tells that criticize my RP. ...
Wow, now that I find strange. I've always enjoyed hunting with Nya, I've always enjoyed his vernacular and his hunting skills - I've even seen a player trying to emulate it (though nothing beats the original, of course). I don't see how a character who searches for a "strong pack" can be thought of as not a team player. But in any case, what you've said about Kithairien pretty much sums things up. And even if things were that way, not every character is or should be a "team player." Pfah. Go Coyote!
Well in any case, I couldn't agree more with this thread - I've received more than one tell from a player making sure I wasn't OOC offended by their character's actions. And I can assure you, this sort of precaution is completely unnecessary when dealing with me. If your character is evil, please, by all means, role-play them as evil! I want to see it, feel it, and know it's there as part of the world! Just don't expect a good fellow, or neutral kid with a proud streak and a veiled superiority complex to sit around and be insulted, or threatened by the likes of you. ;)
Even if your character isn't evil - again, no need to make certain with me. Let's not pretend as though all our characters are going to trust each other with their lives in battle if they can't even sit down to tea together in a civil manner - even if they are of the same alignment, or the same race, or what have you. No one wants to spread negativity, and we all want to have fun, but some (controlled) clashes of personality are unavoidable and even enjoyable; and I personally don't think people should force their characters into certain company that they logically wouldn't be in, simply to join a battle foray.
In any case, yep, I hope people aren't offended OOC by IC personalities - especially when it comes to things like druidic dogma. You can *really* smell some people's political bents through RP and when that starts happening, well, that's bad.
-
The evil/mean acts of my pc in NO way reflect who I am behind the keyboard. I volunteer with the youth in my community as a soccer referee and football coach. I volunteer at the local hospital and I'm a waiting for medical school to start. I spend my free time helping others and giving back.
The time I spend in the game is my creative RP/acting side that has nothing to do with my real life.
Drizzlin, I think some of my post was misunderstood by most (probably the way I worded it and the way others interpreted it). I was not referring to you are all. I have spoke to you and yours in tells before and I realize that there is a huge difference between you and your character. But, the things I mentioned in my post, I have seen, (not by you specifically) that is why I never read CDT's and hardly log into IRC anymore. Hence, the reason I posted it. However, it is not aimed at everyone. If the shoe fits sort of thing. I did not mention any names and will not. Drizzlin, you and yours make an excellent team and I have always enjoyed being in party with you two.
To clarify my previous post and what I was referring to, or at least try...
A new player playing a certain class with a certain alignment...some people going to IRC and complaining about it, complaining or slamming on the way the new character is RPing, new people accidently slightly metagaming or using the a characters name when not introduced and players miss treating them, etc...So it is mostly in tells and IRC and less in journals. I probably should have left journals out, but it has happened there.
Ever received a tell that was meant for someone else? You may be surpised what some characters say about others.
-
Especially with the race limits on towns. I saw an orc in the middle of Hempstead, just standing around a group of five people or so. I saw him later, and confronted him (IC) about the town, its laws, and then made sure he left. I didn't send a tell, but I didn't sense hostility.
-
In any case, yep, I hope people aren't offended OOC by IC personalities - especially when it comes to things like druidic dogma. You can *really* smell some people's political bents through RP and when that starts happening, well, that's bad.
Mostly it comes up when Nye cops his "I don't care if you die." attitude. I don't want to get into details, but it generally pertains to characters he doesn't know very well, thus getting a bad first impression. But hey, a character with a CHA of 8 should get bad first impressions. ;)
AeonBlues
-
The evil/mean acts of my pc in NO way reflect who I am behind the keyboard. I volunteer with the youth in my community as a soccer referee and football coach.
I don't know... all of my football coaches were decidedly Lawful Evil... ;)
-
Especially with the race limits on towns. I saw an orc in the middle of Hempstead, just standing around a group of five people or so. I saw him later, and confronted him (IC) about the town, its laws, and then made sure he left. I didn't send a tell, but I didn't sense hostility.
It is still very hard, to near impossible for a monster race to NOT go to hempstead. Fort Vehl does not have crafting halls. I know that you are saying they are RPing, rather than using the crafting halls, but my point is simple. Until crafting halls are placed in Vehl, I can not, for one second, expect monster races to avoid Hempsted.
Monster races still have to use the boats in hempsted to get around as well.
-
It is still very hard, to near impossible for a monster race to NOT go to hempstead. Fort Vehl does not have crafting halls. I know that you are saying they are RPing, rather than using the crafting halls, but my point is simple. Until crafting halls are placed in Vehl, I can not, for one second, expect monster races to avoid Hempsted.
Monster races still have to use the boats in hempsted to get around as well.
Ehm... there are crafting halls in Vehl.
The problem is rather that nobody even bothers to make the effort to go there and find them.
-
This was stated the last time it was brought up as an argument as well.
-
I wonder how many people think I'm like Gork ooc then.....*counts the bodies around him* Oh.
-
Just out of curiosity if Hempstead was the only town that didn't allow monsters.. Not that it affects me but I was wondering.
I assume Mariners Hold would allow them (and there is a crafting hall there too of course..) just because it's not really possible to get to Alindor without passing through there..
And Prantz seems like it shouldn't but that would also be terribly inconvenient to say the least..
And finally are the docks of Hempstead off limits to them? As in if they were taking a boat from Vehl to Leringard, I assume they would be allowed a few moments to change ships..
-
It isn't that it's off-limits. It's just that it's not a very healthy place to be if you're not one of the "civilized" races.
-
Crafting Halls in Vehl are in the main part of town east of the bank and south of the armor, weapon, and clothing shops. >_>; i honestly prefer the crafting halls in Vehl ... no one is there... it's nice and quiet...
What really gets under my skin is people that let's say... gets killed by an IC evil alignment player then switches to another of their characters of equal or higher level to confront the evil player... that really annoys me... not only did the instance not happen to the character switched to... unless RP is involved that character has no business confronting the evil character... i.e. Killed character = Little brother Character switched to = Big Brother even then... still no business confronting the evil one. Thus they take it OOCly and go for the vengeance path. which leads to the dark side man! (doh... +2 points to my geek skill...)
-
Has this happened? Usually I see people keep disputes among their characters and not multiple ones...
-
I know that's a common practice in MMORPGs, but if it's occurring here that's an issue, heh.
-
I would like this bump this post again because it has been mentioned to me on a number of occasions that it's easier to play "Happy Families" where every race such as Dark Elves, Orcs, Half Giants and Dwarves, Elves are friendly to each other because of mainly OOC reasons....
a)they feel bad doing something to said character because the player behind it is their friend.
b) that OOC arguments may occur. . . and things get out of control.
I would like to iterate again a common theme that has been said before in this thread...that is what a player is and a character is are two different things.
I have seen players that do some abrupt changes to their characters because at the end of the day they want to get along.
Lastly, I would like to say something for people to consider. It is a bit of ftopic but is a consequence of what happens when players do play "Happy Families" because of the OOC reasons I have listed above.
When one plays in this manner, I find it sad, because people like EdtheKet and his team, the Project team has been a tremendous amount of work put into the manual...and making it on screen fleshing out the details.
By not Roleplaying IC the general description of races, acknowledging what is in the handbook or in LORE, I personally think it is a kind of a slap in the face to the team who have worked so hard to make Layonara the way it is.
-
Ehm... there are crafting halls in Vehl.
The problem is rather that nobody even bothers to make the effort to go there and find them.
There still are not any advanced crafting halls in vehl. Sorry to hash this up so late, but I knew about the normal ones and meant the advanced ones way back when I said this.