The World of Layonara

The Layonara Community => Roleplaying => Topic started by: Lilswanwillow on May 12, 2007, 07:31:54 PM

Title: what is a half elf?
Post by: Lilswanwillow on May 12, 2007, 07:31:54 PM
Another player and I were discussing something... what is a half elf, and what isn't.
sound clear cut, right?  HAHA

Ok, we have 1/4 elf=human
1/2 elf
and maybe theres a 3/4 elf walking around somewhere, =elf.

got that.

Now what happens when the 1/4 elf is with a full elf.. and they are makin babies; is that a half elf or is it full elf since its more elf than human (doing the math, its 5/8th elf)
and vice-versa.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: LynnJuniper on May 12, 2007, 07:49:24 PM
Yup , you get 5/8th elf babies.

Or demon spawn ..

*walks of whistling*
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Interia_Discordius on May 12, 2007, 07:51:42 PM
I never really looked at "half-elf" to be completely 1/2... I just looked at half elves as in if they have human blood and elf blood, they can't be one or the other, so you got the middle.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: darkstorme on May 12, 2007, 08:08:05 PM
I think once you get past one quarter in either direction, you have a human/elf with some minor physical attributes that come from their great-grandparents.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Dorganath on May 12, 2007, 08:34:36 PM
It's not possible to get a "full elf" by breeding half-elves with pure elves and continuing to introduce pure elven blood over generations...no matter how hard you may try.  Best you can get is a half-elf.

Taken the other way, if an increasing number of human ancestors are added to the bloodline of a half-elf, you'll fairly quickly have something that's basically fully human.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: darkstorme on May 12, 2007, 08:36:31 PM
Hooray for human genetic dominance!
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: jrizz on May 12, 2007, 09:37:12 PM
So elven blood once tainted with other blood can never go back? But human blood is more like a disease or virus?
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Acacea on May 12, 2007, 09:47:07 PM
Good way to put it! *Grins.*
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Dorganath on May 12, 2007, 10:08:35 PM
Yeah that...or just generally more dominant in the genetic sense of the word.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Hotaru on May 12, 2007, 11:37:49 PM
yar the human blood is a disease that you can never get out! .... darn tall folk *pouts*
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Stephen_Zuckerman on May 13, 2007, 02:46:56 AM
I thought that a half-elf and a half-elf could make full-elf babies... One-fourth of the time.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: jrizz on May 13, 2007, 03:28:20 AM
*falls off his chair laughing*
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Hellblazer on May 13, 2007, 04:02:38 AM
genetic wise yes Stephen, also even the dominant genes would fade out after multiple generations of retro breeding ( introducing back the native genes) After a couple of generation of breeding back with full elf with a lineage that had elf blood, the recessive human genes would be so scarce that the person would be elf in essence.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Weeblie on May 13, 2007, 04:12:01 AM
To reflect what Dorganath wrote: That's not the case here. :)
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Dorganath on May 13, 2007, 08:40:13 AM
Quote from: Stephen_Zuckerman
I thought that a half-elf and a half-elf could make full-elf babies... One-fourth of the time.

Not the case.

Racial pairings don't split evenly along the lines of physical traits like things like eye color do.  There are parallels we could draw here in RL, but I'll let you ponder that on your own.

In terms of race, it's more a matter of dillution and blending rather than a statistical division of traits.  By your logic, Human/elf pairings would result 50% of the time in a full human and 50% of the time in a full elf.  That, of course, doesn't happen either.

Further, if you look into standard D&D rules, the section under half-elves states that while most half-elves are children of human-elf pairings, some are the children of parents who are themselves half-elven.

Let's keep in mind that elves have absolutely no parallel in RL biology.  When mixing, or attempting to mix, the various races permitted, the normal rules of genetics don't necessarily apply for the purpose of determining the final "race". For physical traits, yes.  But even then, the genetic code of Elves and Humans are not necessarily on equal footing, and so one cannot really assume that with enough breeding, a half-elven line can be transformed back into a full elven line.  Of course...that's also complicated by the fact that elves breed really slowly.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: jan on May 13, 2007, 08:55:56 AM
*grins*
guess it boils down to :
elves genetics are too weak to overcome the human cells.  =)
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Stephen_Zuckerman on May 13, 2007, 10:07:41 AM
Right. Mayhaps we should call them something other than half-elves, then. *Chuckles.*
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: lonnarin on May 13, 2007, 10:42:50 AM
My favorite method in making a half-elf involves one fully blooded elf and a hacksaw.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Lilswanwillow on May 13, 2007, 11:26:20 AM
well, thank you.

I'll go along the answer of :the babies will be half elf

but now, with the game AI crud... would you use the 'elf' or the 'human' or the 'half elf subrace' for such children...
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Dorganath on May 13, 2007, 11:50:16 AM
Half-elf is not a subrace.  It's an officially supported race in NWN.  I would say you would not choose "Elf" because of the above.  Depending on the parentage, I would use "Human" or "Half-elf".  In either case, nothing should be listed in the subrace field.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Lilswanwillow on May 13, 2007, 11:55:15 AM
thats what I ment ;)
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: silverdraco on May 16, 2007, 04:23:18 PM
I didn't read everything here so I'm sorry if I ask something that has been awnsered already.

I have a character that is fully human. she has maried with a half elf and gotten children. Those children are 1/4th elf 3/4 human. no matter what you say thats what they are.

now i'm already working on one of those characters. the question is. would a 1/4th elf 3/4th human be ingame terms be accepted as half elf.

I want to know this because I alreayd know the road I want this one to follow. and that is the road of an arcane archer. and as you all know you need to be half elf or full elf for this. I'm just wondering if it's only game terms  and that in rp terms a 1/4th elf could be accepted as a arcane archer.

please let me know as the awnser of this will determine whether or not I can continue with my idea's or that I have to adust it a bit.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Lilswanwillow on May 16, 2007, 04:50:10 PM
thats a half elf.
:D
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Weeblie on May 17, 2007, 04:41:35 AM
There are only three races in the human/elf combo:

1. Human
2. Half-Elf
3. Elf

These combinations do not exist:

1/4 elf
3/4 elf
234/914 elf
24% elf
(and many more)

The only valid ones are "none", "half" or "full". Nothing in-between.

Appearance wise, a child of a Half-Elf and an Elf would display more of the elven traits. Slightly more pointed ears, slightly more slanted eyes... slightly shorter than "other" Half-Elves...

But, it does NOT make a "3/4 elf" a race (nor subrace) of its own as nothing except the appearance would differ from any other Half-Elf. The said child would not live (on average) longer than a normal Half-Elf, nor would the said child be able to meditate like the elves instead of sleeping. Same goes for all other unique elven traits.

A "3/4 elf" is just a completely normal Half-Elf with a slightly more elven look...

Conclusion is the following:

Human and Elf parents = Half-Elf (duuuh!)
Human and Half-Elf parents = Human and probably Half-Elf (not 100% sure about the last)
Half-Elf and Elf parents = Half-Elf (without exceptions)
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: DiegoBastet on May 17, 2007, 12:26:55 PM
Anything not in the middle is the race with more.

3/4 elf, is a half-elf with something human (maybe strange looking human eye's color)

3/4 human is a human with something elven (hey, nice flowing blonde hair!)

A half elf is someone with the blood of the two. There are "second generation" half-elves, with both parents half-elf, and they tend to be a little more human than their parents (in D&D, half-elves ALWAYS have the green eyes of the elves (or high-elves), and the second generation may have the other colors that human can have). Some generations (let's say, 3) must pass with always half-elves mating for the elven blood to get to weak and the child be born a human with elven traits, instead of a half-elf of 2nd generation...

At least this is the WOTC official awser to this...
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Dove de Dona Pheonix on May 23, 2007, 05:04:07 AM
Quote
It's not possible to get a "full elf" by breeding half-elves with pure elves and continuing to introduce pure elven blood over generations...no matter how hard you may try. Best you can get is a half-elf.


OK so in all the PnP books that I've read on this subject a 75%elf/25% human split or greater would be considered for game purposes to have the same adjusts as an elf. My question is why the change than in Layonara? Just curious.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Stephen_Zuckerman on May 24, 2007, 01:44:36 AM
Leanthar wants it that way. *Shrug.* Good enough for me. Besides, there's enough basis for it... Human blood will infect anything, and keeping elven blood pure's a bloody chore (excuse the pun).
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Eorendil on May 24, 2007, 10:17:21 AM
Elves are an inherently mystical race.  By tainting their blood even a little with the human genome which, while hardy, is pretty much the epitome of mundane you effectively impare, to some degree, the offspring's mystical nature.  It won't matter whether its 1% or 75%.  

Physical traits may vary and show as more or less elven but the physical and mystical traits are a world apart and not mutually exclusive.

The name Half Elf is a very general classification and not really a racial designation so while your character may be offended at being called a half elf when he's two thirds or three quarters.. it has no bearing on the label.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: lonnarin on May 24, 2007, 10:49:51 AM
Humans pretty much mate with anything they can get their hands on.  Half-Elves, Half-Giants, Half-Ogres, Half-Orcs, Yuan-ti Half-bloods, Tiefers, Aasimar etc.  The other races probably all look at us like we're insatiable perverts.  No wonder the dwarves guard their women!
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: OldBear on May 24, 2007, 12:09:09 PM
Aye dat is why ye will never see a half dwarf, unlike dem elves we are a bit more careful in whom we chose te mate with.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: gilshem ironstone on May 25, 2007, 02:34:35 PM
I asked a number of months ago if dwarves were even capable of mating with other races and the answer came back "no".
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: lonnarin on May 25, 2007, 02:48:06 PM
If you were to look at the attempted pregnancy under a microscope, you'd see thousands of dying minnows being hacked apart by teeny tiny axe-weilding regiments of white blood cells protecting the eggs from undwarven fertilization.  The dwarven immune system won't put up with infiltration of any kind!
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Dorganath on May 25, 2007, 03:22:57 PM
Dwarves and non-dwarves don't mix.  Their genomes are too different (and too resistant) to combine with anything but another dwarven breed.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Faldred on May 25, 2007, 03:27:19 PM
Besides, a half-dwarf would be kind of like "lite" beer -- in theory, yeah, you could have it, but what's the point?
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: AeonBlues on May 25, 2007, 05:54:56 PM
Quote from: Stephen_Zuckerman
I thought that a half-elf and a half-elf could make full-elf babies... One-fourth of the time.


This would imply that there is one recessive elf chromosome.  I would have to imagine that a half elf has more then 1 elf chromosome....

AeonBlues
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: LynnJuniper on May 25, 2007, 06:15:38 PM
So...

Half Elf + Human = Half Elf or Human With Elvish Traits?

If the second, then

Human with a Half Elf Parent + Elf = Half elf that looks slightly more elven than your average half elf?

O.oO.oO.o
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Interia_Discordius on May 25, 2007, 06:24:04 PM
You guys overcomplicate this so much :D
*giggles*
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Marswipp on May 25, 2007, 09:22:01 PM
My brain is complicated! :p
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Stephen_Zuckerman on May 26, 2007, 03:19:34 AM
Quote from: AeonBlues
This would imply that there is one recessive elf chromosome.  I would have to imagine that a half elf has more then 1 elf chromosome....

AeonBlues


Um... No. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b230/ProfessorPerrin/Punnet.jpg

Neither would be a recessive trait in that scenario. They would be equally dominant, and would be able to mix to make a half-X.

However, what we need to remember here is that in Layonara, if an elf breeds with a human, the offspring will never be able to produce fully elvish (or even elvish enough to be elves) offspring.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: silverdraco on May 26, 2007, 03:37:31 AM
Quote from: Eorendil
Elves are an inherently mystical race.  By tainting their blood even a little with the human genome which, while hardy, is pretty much the epitome of mundane you effectively impare, to some degree, the offspring's mystical nature.  It won't matter whether its 1% or 75%.  

Physical traits may vary and show as more or less elven but the physical and mystical traits are a world apart and not mutually exclusive.

The name Half Elf is a very general classification and not really a racial designation so while your character may be offended at being called a half elf when he's two thirds or three quarters.. it has no bearing on the label.


oke so if I understand this correctly no mater how the human/elf mixture is it will either clasify as half elf or fully human. so for a quarter elf you could pick either half elf or fully human depending on what you want. correct me if I'm wrong.

Then I have an other question. could a quarter elf be accepted as a "arcane archer"?
I have a character who's father is one. and in his family tree several people where also arcane archers.
I hope this would qualify as a character being able to become an arcane archer. if not there's no use for that character trying to follow that road.

so please let me know.
Title: Re: what is a half elf?
Post by: Stephen_Zuckerman on May 26, 2007, 03:37:44 PM
Only if they're mechanically considered a "half-elf."

It's one of the mechanical prerequisites for the class.
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2026, SimplePortal