The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: iceyfire on August 29, 2007, 06:31:10 PM
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Hi everyone, please try and keep this constructive and well free of any kind of flaming, as what i say is my opinion, and im open to what you all have to say.
Now that thats out of the way, something occured to me recently, with the new layonara set to be rearing its head next year?, and nwn pretty much being left for dead...
I had a thought, why is it many have dropped out, and then it occured to me, its time investment, many cannot bare to make new characters or even push their old ones because of time investment in leveling.
Dont get me wrong i have quite enjoyed the slow journey of raising through the levels, and the risk in dieing, but i couldnt do it again not now...
I really want to see all of these new areas, i really want to see what all of those really high level places have to offer yet it seems the bulk of the players are ethier in mid twenties or around 18 ish...
And well when this chapter is about to close, dont you think it might be a little more fun to open up the other interesting parts of the server to the mainstream by lessening the level time investment..
Aye some of you might say attend a quest or two to get this exp, but i say i rarely see any that are not halfway through a plot line, or are closed for some reason or another and the others are just in a different timezone entirely... And yes i do respect the Gm's have lives and all that im just saying its not really a viable option..
What im talking about is not streamlining powerleveling, but rather unrestricting it a bit, by lessening that large barrier, it would certainly make it much more interesting in my belief....
And it would encourage more people to play some new characters as the investment of time would be lower then what it is now..
Dont get me wrong i didnt come to layonara to powerlevel up to 40 and flaunt my power or build over others... no not at all, im suggesting more along the lines of pushing more up into the low 30's and making 20 something the commonish level...
Anyway i hope i made sense, let me know your thoughts on the matter, and perhaps suggestions to the problems i have talked about, i look forward to reading what you think.
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I can agree with the points you're making, but I don't think the end is as near as you're assuming. And I think things like the DT system and probably the level requirements will be more laxed as we get closer to that end, actually.
The stuff will be there then, hopefully so will the chars who want to see it, so don't sweat it is all I have to say :)
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I think this topic was one of many that was discussed in the state of Layo and it's future thread. If I remember right the team did say that things might get laxed up towards the very end but I agree with Lynn above. I think Layo's end is farther than most people think especially if it doesn't end until the new product is available. Maybe I am just wishful thinking but that's my feeling anyway.
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Just something on the side, I've had a high level char many moons ago and yes he got to adventure to some pretty nasty places. At the end of the day however, my faveourite levels are 1-12. I really think thats where the most fun is. Then when the team converted Layo to version 3, all those simple places became challenges again. I especially love how the red light caverns had tough goblins and the new krandor crypts and grey peaks. These places are more exciting with low level characters then the old eastern continent with high level ones.
In other words, speaking from experience, don't get hell bent on leveling your character to 20+. Good low level characters are more fun.
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I hope you're right Lynn. Kyle is 400k+ away from 20 with 7 DT's. At the rate of level advancement...I more likely will perm before reaching the magic 21 and 5 more DT's. (He's averaged 1 DT per level since he lost number 1 at level 13 or 14)
That is a lot of time invested in him and I wouldn't want to start over this late in the game. I hope...if the staff doesn't want to turn the Soul Mother off again...maybe slow the rate of losing strands. (To say maybe a chance to lose one every 3 deaths).
Hope that doesn't PO the staff. It's just a suggestion.
I enjoyed my time here...and I will miss Kyle when the new game goes up and he retires.
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I do love the new charters. After I desided to kill....... Umm.... Well anyway. I have tryed new charters. Lower levels are nice to play but I love higher level charters more. More cool things to fight, more places to go, and just cooler stuff to fight with.
I belive that players are still here, but in my cace with work and working so much it has been hard to play. I get up and leave my house at 3:00 am make it to work and put in a 10 to 12 hour day and drive home 6 to 7 days a week (More on the 7 then the 6).. I am a bit tired. I also know a few others that once there lives turn right side up again they will be back.
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Well, in response to Polak first.. a lot has been done to change the dynamic of high levels. In fact I'd say one of the potentially most fun adventurers is for level 35's (and nobody's even found it yet har!).
But yeah, I like the 12ish range as well... so I'll go with you on that.
And in response to the thread idea.... I think we have plenty of time, and that folks should stop sweating the end. It'll come when it comes, and hopefully I'm still swinging my blades instead of sitting in an armchair retired and 'content' with 'success' when it does.
I disagree with making anything easier for those two reasons above.
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*smiles at Chongo* Yeah, I am a little surprised nobody has found 35's yet. Should be good fun.
Folks, you still have a good while on NwN. I can not (and will not say how long) because things do change but it is a good while yet.
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If it wasn't hard, it wouldn't be worth it.
...... sort of a motto... or is it a creedo? 8)
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We're afraid of Piles o Doom L! Seriously though, point me in a direction. I laugh in the face of danger (Then run screaming)
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If it wasn't hard, it wouldn't be worth it.
Thats true for a lot of things... Although what those things are is better left to another discussion.
Hehe... my favorite PC is still 4 lvls from being the magic 20, and even then I hope to try for WL. But heck, if I knew i could log on and in an hour or two be there? Wouldnt mean as much... The fun of anything is in the struggle to get there, cause once you have it. What then?
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Um... speed up leveling?
Looks to me like that has already happened. I have been playing one char for almost two years and am level 19... and have watched multiple characters that have been created in the last six months pass her in levels...
Seems to me it has sped up.
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*chuckles* Level 19? I'm closing on a year and a half, and my character's level 9.
I DO have three characters, mind.
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I have four, and only 1 is close to level 17. so there =oP
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Its really a matter of time. Last two summers I had lots so I quested my arse off, and got to 20 before a year was up because I had no job or school. sometimes thats just how the time cards are delt, but lets not bring that conversation here
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You both kinda make my point...
year and a half, three characters and the top is 9... How many total levels do you have btwenn the three? probably 20? 25?
Same for you Shiff?
Then I look at the server and see characters my player helped when they were level one 6 months ago and their over level 21.
Don't take this the wrong way some people play alot more than others but, from what I see, I see an increase in leveling speed, but maybe thats just me.
And the 4 million XP at 20th *sighs*.... So I have like 5 million XP now at level 19... add 4 million for the twenty hump, and that means there are people who have gotten over 9 million XP in like 6 months.
Just seems strange, thats all. So obviously there is a way to rocket up in levels. Sometimes I wish I knew what it was and sometimes I don't.
Addition: This is in no way meant to antagonize anyone, just mearly to point out that people can and do level up quickly where they can see the whole world.
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Merlin, I think it's that the majority of people are focusing their time on one character since the big announcement.
Now, you couple that with the general timeline of Layonara overall, where a lot of people have naturally progressed to 21 before and after the lifting of that cap, then you also have actual groups in the higher levels and obviously adventures with experience are going to be more likely.
That's my take at least.
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You get into a group of like minded people, then it is pretty easy. If you push and push, it is easy to get 100k + in a span of about 2 or 3 hours. Some people do this in moderation, others do it continuously (about the same areas all the time or they will bounce from one high xp area to another each time they log on as a group).
Think of it as a kite. The main player has a character that supports a party. The little bows on the tail fly with the kite going where ever the kite goes. If the kite is not playing, then the tail doesn't do anything until the kite comes back. Then it is the same grind. Every now and then, a new bow will be added or a bow will leave once they get bored.
It is all dependent on individual goals. If the goal is levels, power and drops then the grinding is not boring as xp and items racks up. If your goal is some xp and some RP, the kite is not the answer. Maybe one or two trips, but it gets old fast because it is the same people doing it with little to no RP. If your goal is to develope a character and get into the world, then it is a slow path.
Playing a low level character is a lot of fun, I have to agree with the others. Usually when I start a new character, I use another login. This allows me to RP with people I know, but they don't know me, which opens a lot of new interactions. It gives me a chance to break away from a certain mindset, too. It also keeps people from talking to me or wanting to help me just because they know me from my other characters.
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I'm a bit on Polak and Twidget's side here.
I love the idea of my characters getting up there in level (my highest being lvl 15 after 16 months - a veritable power leveller compared to Darkstorme!!) and then I start to consider all the options available for me to try out still.
Lots of classes, lots of races, lots of religions, different abilities, lots of weapons, lots of feats, lots of skills, lots of personalities to explore.
As i've said elsewhere, remember there is no destination, there is only the journey. Stephen King at the end of the Dark Tower series puts it in an analogy I like. :)
What was my point? *scratches head* Yeah, that's right, sometimes areas, challenges and most importantly, RP interactions you have already done with one character seem entirely new and different when you all of a sudden have an entirely different perspective and set of gifts with which to face them.
Exploring the psyche, learning to understand my new character, meeting other characters I know as one person but now as a different person, finding something within my own character ... this will always be more fun to me than finding a new area.
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Myself, I'm of two minds on the topic.
First, I both would like to level faster because the fact of the matter is I really only have one day a week I know I can play all day and that's Saturday. Even then it's not a full day. The other days I can play a few hours here and there but nowhere near enough for a quest. Now I like to level for much the same reason as everyone else, better abilities, better able to survive in difficult areas, the chance to go harder places for good loot.
But level 20 is hard to get over if you only have a schedule such as mine and some here have even less time. I mean I have 3 20th level characters but one is permed and one is virtually not played because the mechanics were changed and the character doesn't really fit me personally so I play Zup anymore, trying to get into whatever parties I can to grind past that 3 mil xp barrier. I just have to make short goals, such as under 2 mil, then next when I hit 7 mil and so on. And these characters are nowhere new, the permed one was from Beta 4 and the other 2 were made early on in '05, well over 2 years old.
And on top of this is the knowledge that I will have to move soon, most likely to a new state so I don't know how much time I have left and how much I can play once I get there.
Now my second though is that I understand Leanthar's side too. He didn't even feel comfortable opening up levels above level 20 for a long time but eventually did do it, for the player. There was even a time when you couldn't go above level 20 without a ECDQ and even that was changed to where there is a barrier to overcome, but it can be overcome. So in perspective, things are much more open then they used to be and things have continually gotten better for the player.
And let's face it, some people have more time than others. Some of the people who had unlimited time before have had a little something called reality finally sneak into their life and they have had to find jobs and are now finding that they too don't have time similar to me.
The upshot is that those who have the time will use relaxed limits to rocket up in level. While those that have limited time will see a slightly better time leveling but will still be left in the dust by those that have more time to play. The post 'For Those Fast Leveling Charcters' was made to address some people that I knew and adventured with from time to time and they did rocket up in level...but again they had the time and rules were different back then. Leanthar and the team first appealed (as they always do from what I have seen) for the community to not do something just because they can.
And Leanthar doesn't want a whole sever of level 40's, it kind of cheapens the amount of time someone like Ozy has put in to get to where he is now.
Anyway, I'm rambling and need to get to sleep for an early day tomorrow where too much time will be spent on the bus.
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Don't take this the wrong way some people play alot more than others but, from what I see, I see an increase in leveling speed, but maybe thats just me.
And the 4 million XP at 20th *sighs*.... So I have like 5 million XP now at level 19... add 4 million for the twenty hump, and that means there are people who have gotten over 9 million XP in like 6 months.
I don't think that it is just you because I have the same observations. I remember when I first joined the server that people would just roleplay, they might go to a place, say Lar, and were not so concerned with combatting creatures and collecting gold. People were interested in exploring perhaps a bit of crafting and finally what was most important in those days, was to create an interesting story. I remember meeting various people and striking a friendship between them. Hlint was always a fun place to be.
Therefore I personally think it is what characters choose to do with their time. In the past in V2 and such the majority of people chose to focus on story as I have mentioned, nowadays people focus more on adventure and combatting creatures on what was East and now the new areas such Thunder Peaks that the team have put together.
Personally, I enjoy the story and character development. I would come into sit in Stormcrest, and now hopefully Thunder Crossroads, and hope for people to find their way there to talk about things as we did in the past. Alas, that has not happened yet. I guess people are still adventuring. In the meantime, my characters continue to wait for when tales and legends would be spun and I can explore the new areas with this sense of vigor.
As for my character level progression, I have been on the server for 1 year and a bit now and my highest level character just hit level 14. I play him true to form and even though I have several other characters, I like his level of progression and I am not complaining. He has made a lot of friends and story development, and I think that far outweighs things such as XP/level. I felt this character really deserved his level.
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Personally, I think taking away Hlint as the starting point has left people feeling like they have no 'home' or a place to go to for RP. Port Hempstead and Fort Vehl just don't have the 'home town' feeling. Since the loss of a focal point, people just stay scattered. With the scatterness, a lot of the RP has shifted to RPing during battles and adventuring which has the affect of leveling characters. Hard to develope a character just from battle RP, in my opinion.
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I totally agree with that thought Twidget. I think you have nailed it on the head.
I would have thought that Stormcrest or Thunder Crossroads would have replaced the "Hlint" in Version 3 though. *shrugs* looks like I maybe wrong.
But your conjecture scatteredness of players activity is spot on imho.
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Thunder xroads seems to be working. Most of the time there's at least 1 person there, and it seems to me that a good quarter of the time there's more then 5 there. Today I saw a group of 13 there for over an hour, and that happens pretty often.
But yeah, big servers spread folks out. Stormcrest doesn't really seem to work as intended since it's a few steps back on the avenue towards most adventures, at the brink of which you need to bottleneck adventurers in their travel routes. I think the thunder xroads are working decently in that regard. Hlint was good because of the multiple travel routes from it/ portals, and because it was grandfathered in and thus the precedent was set.
That last point made, it's largely the player's precedents in bringing people to a hub that will actually make it a hub over time.
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Aye, its good to see so many responses, aye im not trying to dumb down the whole rp nature of the community, however i think its a combination of both combat adventure and rp that make this server great, and no im not thinking of drastic drops in experience needed not at all i was thinking more along the lines of 20% at the most if anything.
No if it was one of those servers where you picked a build, spent a week leveling and then ran around looking for things to do i would have left long ago... no i have had my one character to long for that :) hehe.
Aye you all make valid points and if the end is not really that close then cheers let us continue then :), but you can agree with my point on people focusing more on one character if anything because of that lingering and the need to see what else is out their.
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All I ask is that in the last week this version of Layonara exists, everyone be made level 40 and all the spawns need to be Dragons.
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I like the level system on Layo. I played on a NWN2 server, and one of the things that turned me off, was how easy it was to make levels. I love the RP on layo. Everywhere I go, there is good RP happening. There have been several ocasions when I bailed from a party that was focused on grinding XP and not RPing. That hasn't happened for a long time, and generally was because of one person not waiting for others.
One of my characters could be considered a fast leveler. If he was leveling any faster then he is, I would lose interest in him as a character. Mind you, making levels is not my primary goal. I like to hunt. I made a character thats dogma and background are about hunting. He comes from a tribe of hunter gatherers. He hunts. As a consequence, he makes levels. So, as stated, I like things the way they are.
I currently have 3 characters, and I have no worries about when the server ends. My enjoyment is not being gathered at some later point in time. My enjoyment is now. The fun I have playing my characters can never be taken away. I have fun, and when layo NWN goes down, I can say, "Thanks, I had a lot of fun, and I am looking forward to the new thing."
There is plenty for characters at any level to be involved with, both inside of quest events and out. When there is not much for one to do, there is something going on for another. There is always interesting dialog, character development, stories and lore being shared. When people talk about how RP is suffering, it kind of frustrates me. Like, where are you? How can I play 3 different characters, and find good RP everywhere I go, and alls you see is people grinding XP?
AeonBlues
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One of my characters could be considered a fast leveler. If he was leveling any faster then he is, I would lose interest in him as a character. Mind you, making levels is not my primary goal. I like to hunt. I made a character thats dogma and background are about hunting. He comes from a tribe of hunter gatherers. He hunts. As a consequence, he makes levels.
Nyeaena was approved on Feb 08, 2007 and is now level 22...*blinks, blinks*
Hunting what?
You can RP anything you want to justify your actions. But I do agree that if a players has a lot of time to play and all the player does is 'hunt', yeah the character is going to level fast. What ever is fun for the player, I guess is what it boils down to.
To each his own.
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Nyeaena was approved on Feb 08, 2007 and is now level 22...*blinks, blinks*
Hunting what?
You can RP anything you want to justify your actions. But I do agree that if a players has a lot of time to play and all the player does is 'hunt', yeah the character is going to level fast. What ever is fun for the player, I guess is what it boils down to.
To each his own.
I think the point is, that even though he levels fast, he is always involved with interesting RP. I like to have my cake and eat it too. I enjoy the challenge and tactics of combat, but with out the good RP, I would lose any sense of immersion, and the immersion is vital to my enjoyment.
AeonBlues
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I play this game far too much. Much more then all my other hobbies put together. It is engrossing and addictive.
Jin Lun Lee just reached level 20 early last week. This took 20 months. When I initially started playing I expected to reach level 20 in about 9 months, as Jin's first 9 levels took only 3 and a bit months.
It is roughly 4 million XP to next level. Assuming Jin receives 100k XP per quest. I estimate now that it will take me about 40 quest sessions to reach level 21. Averaging around 1 quest a week this would take 10 months. I will also be able to gain some XP from adventuring. Assuming Jin can manage another 100k XP per week (optimistic). Then this is about 5 months to reach level 21.
So assuming everything continues smoothly (no R/L, no perming, no sever shutdown) it will have taken over 2 years to create an epic character in Layonara.
As demonstrated by many other players it is possible to level faster, much faster then this. It is also possible to level slower then this.
I don't think leveling should be changed.
However, I would like the level restrictions for certain locations to be opened up. That would allow all players to see some of the new work Chongo has put in to the last update. Currently this is restricted to those characters that are of level 17+. This favors players of a higher level. This is those players who have been here longer or those who level faster.
After character interaction (roleplay) I would suggest that party balance and level spread, for example a maximum spread of 10 levels, be the basis of adventure party restrictions. From my observations, lower level characters get proportionally less XP when combating creatures of high challenge rating.
This suggest would benefit those players who's characters aren't high enough level to visit these locations. Many of those players in this category are current serving GM's and some of our better static roleplay players.
With the current level restrictions there is a temptation to level quickly just to see the world.
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It would also get the lower level characters killed, alot. I'm guessing part of the reason isn't simply getting XP but is the difficulty of these encounters.
Not saying that the lower level characters couldn't contribute but that they would need to be 'carried' a little I for one as a player would feel bad if a low level character DT taking on somewhere original stated as lvl 17 and above.
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Hi folks. Thanks for all of the level headed and constructive points. This type of conversation really does help the team as it is clearly not going too far on any one side and yet it is getting the points across, the important points and the underlying points. I am the type of person that I don't like to put a "band-aid" on a problem but instead like to solve the underlying and root of problems. That is sometimes impossible but at times it is possible, and when constructive input that is level headed and seeing the bigger picture happens sometimes it leads to solid solutions.
It helps with more just NwN as well. These are the kind of posts that give us good ideas and guidelines to try and follow and implement in the new MMO (where we can and when it is possible).
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Hi folks. Thanks for all of the level headed and constructive points. This type of conversation really does help the team as it is clearly not going too far on any one side and yet it is getting the points across, the important points and the underlying points. I am the type of person that I don't like to put a "band-aid" on a problem but instead like to solve the underlying and root of problems. That is sometimes impossible but at times it is possible, and when constructive input that is level headed and seeing the bigger picture happens sometimes it leads to solid solutions.
It helps with more just NwN as well. These are the kind of posts that give us good ideas and guidelines to try and follow and implement in the new MMO (where we can and when it is possible).
All I can say is good luck finding the balance, man. There are a lot of MMOs out there that focus on the staples and basics. Linear character progression in terms of abilities and skills, along with the aged and dusty Experience Collection system, and generic list of classes all combine to make the tried and true system.
What I would love to see is the MMO that removes the XP, Classes, and Levels. Characters would be defined and develop upon how the player chooses to play, rather than a select set of abilities that allow for X class to do Y. What I hate the most about MMOs are the infinite progress bars that must be fill. Everything is measured numerically and shown to a player as such. Development of a character shouldn't be measured as a number. When there is an obvious, numerical goal, you will find that people will always focus their energy upon raising that number so they can get the ability all of the other people who are higher in levels have. I see the future of MMOs as having characters judged by their actions and who they are as characters, and not by their gear, level, and clan.
Having a number to reference to determine the skill and power of your character is a glaring and obvious external source within the game and will always have people thinking in those terms to determine what they are able to do. Without experience and levels, people will be referencing what they have done, how they have done it, and how easily it was preformed. Knowing when something is coming, be it an ability, level, or etc. is practically asking for people to grind for the sake of grinding.
Abilities and skills, in my ideal MMO, would develop according to how the player makes use of themselves. If they attempt to pick locks, they will eventually get better. Are they using a sword - awesome, hack away, and you'll eventually get better. Yet, all incarnations of this that I know of make use of experience. Knowing that each time you hit something will give you 3xp in your Longsword skill seperates the reality of the game world from the system that runs it.
I suppose it comes down to what people want to see. If people are happy with current norm in MMOs, I say more power to them. There is a wide range of selections out there. Yet, these things are relying on a system that was made decades ago. I think it's about time for a change. MMOs have been out for a long time, and even still, there are very few that detract from the established systems. Some go to the MMO Graveyard, Sony Online Entertainment, and others remain in full or moderate force.
MMOs are currently a developer staple. Everyone is out making one. Dan, you really need to focus on what makes your's the best. It will need to out preform a whole lot of publishers in terms of system, accessability, visuals, story, and general content.
Either way, like I've said before, looking at Layonara as a beta for what is to come, I am sold. There are so few people out there, and this includes the entire team you have with you, that are so willing to take massive steps to produce something so creative and original that it boggles my mind this is NWN. I can't wait to see what you guys do without the restrictions Bioware has placed. Where you have access to your own code and can work with a system that is tailored to your needs, rather than tailoring your game around a faulty system, I can only imagine what is going to come from it.
Needless to say, I am happily waiting. :)
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It would also get the lower level characters killed, alot. I'm guessing part of the reason isn't simply getting XP but is the difficulty of these encounters.
Not saying that the lower level characters couldn't contribute but that they would need to be 'carried' a little I for one as a player would feel bad if a low level character DT taking on somewhere original stated as lvl 17 and above.
I think also it has to do with the drops that some of the higher level CR give. If a party has a good run and there were a lot of adamantium equipment/armor found, for example, the higher level characters already have all of theirs so now the lower levels get it. Yes, there are level restrictions on the equipment, but it can be held onto until they grow into it. Now you have a fully equipped lower level character with a bank full of gold who has never seen a merchant. This has come up in treats about the layo economy as well. Now if you have equipment in the bank that you have to grow into, the player is more inclined to gain the levels faster to be able to fit into it.
There was a soft quest rule (when there is a large level spread among characters) that if a player of a certain level could not get that level drop on their own (meaning the higher level characters got a high level spawn with high value drops), then they could not have it. This was usually governed by the GM. This spread to the rest of the server and I think this is about when the level restrictions came around or started to really get enforcement (not 100% certain on this).
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8bit, what are you suggesting now? Hiding the progression bars? you say if you pick loxks you will get better with it, if you fight with a sword, your skill will increase (like in Dungeon Sige or Morrowind) but you just dont see it as a number saying:Player-XY has 90346points in longsword?
but behind what the player sees,there would be a system... I mean there must be system or how doy ou want to judge if someone fights good with a sword or bad?
Sorry, is not meant as an offence, I see your point, there are some things that makes no sense, just making sure I get you right. Though I dont believe that just hiding the stats would stop anyone from leveling. The whim to be better than others would still be there, only not that easy to see.
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I think also it has to do with the drops that some of the higher level CR give. If a party has a good run and there were a lot of adamantium equipment/armor found, for example, the higher level characters already have all of theirs so now the lower levels get it. Yes, there are level restrictions on the equipment, but it can be held onto until they grow into it. Now you have a fully equipped lower level character with a bank full of gold who has never seen a merchant. This has come up in treats about the layo economy as well. Now if you have equipment in the bank that you have to grow into, the player is more inclined to gain the levels faster to be able to fit into it.
There was a soft quest rule (when there is a large level spread among characters) that if a player of a certain level could not get that level drop on their own (meaning the higher level characters got a high level spawn with high value drops), then they could not have it. This was usually governed by the GM. This spread to the rest of the server and I think this is about when the level restrictions came around or started to really get enforcement (not 100% certain on this).
good points Twidget! this was very pronounced with the update in its frist few weeks. But with the fix in you will see a lot less of this and a move back to the "if you cant use it you cant roll for it" rule. this will be due to the rarity of the drops. The only left over is that we have a few (very few) super equiped PCs out there now.
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8bit, what are you suggesting now? Hiding the progression bars? you say if you pick loxks you will get better with it, if you fight with a sword, your skill will increase (like in Dungeon Sige or Morrowind) but you just dont see it as a number saying:Player-XY has 90346points in longsword?
but behind what the player sees,there would be a system... I mean there must be system or how doy ou want to judge if someone fights good with a sword or bad?
Sorry, is not meant as an offence, I see your point, there are some things that makes no sense, just making sure I get you right. Though I dont believe that just hiding the stats would stop anyone from leveling. The whim to be better than others would still be there, only not that easy to see.
Huh? It's just my ideal MMO rant, man. I'm not saying anything is a suggestion. Half of what I posted is impractical. You, however, only focused on about 1/3 of what I said. I posted about a MMO that had no classes, levels, or experience. What I've seen on MMOs for the post part are people going after the highest possible XP per Hour ratio which also yeilds the highest loot drops. I don't find that entertaining in the least, but I am a person who doesn't often worry about tallying up my XP.
The whim to be better than others is natural, expected, and what keeps a MMO going. The collection of items, gold, and experience are what keeps people paying money to play. I, however, like to see things done outside of the established norms in video games. If you took what Morrowind and Oblivion did for leveling a character, removed all experience benchmarks, and left it up to the player to decide what they should be attempting instead of letting their level and the suggested level of an area set the possibility, you would have a game with a depth and engagment unseen yet in the MMO world.
And chances are, it would flop miserably. People like to raid the same place hourly, get the same items, and watch their XP creep up one step closer to get the horse everyone all ready has. At least SOE would have something interesting to ruin with their updates.
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This discussion is pretty good to have as L said because it can help balance things out and such both for the nwn version and the future stand alone version.
I am one of those people who gets through levels faster than most, and if you ask me the reason for this it is pretty clear; quests. Most of my xp is gained there and with the new update there have even been added areas where I get combat xp again.
But does it make the game more fun for me? Not really, sure it is fun to see your character progress and go to new places, but if that was all I was after then I wouldn't be playing here for all that long since I have reached points in earlier versions where I had seen everything.
What makes this place so special is the RP and the quests, that is where you have the most fun, or at least I have the most fun. Sadly I have seen a decrease and some mention in random RP lately, most of the RP now takes place on the way somewhere or while fighting something. It is still fun but it isn't the same as when we were all gathering in Hlint waiting for the next adventure to happen.
However, there are new gathering places as mentioned above but... Four of them is a bit too much, secondly the one that works the Thunderpeaks Crossroads aren't a place my character would hang out simply due to the no magic. That is a pity for me and I am not really going to conplain about that just state a few things about why this place works right now.
[list=1]
- It is where people is This one is pretty logical the more people there are in a given area the more people will come through there and the more random RP can happen there.
- It is close to some pretty good areas for getting adventure fast and easy Again, there are many people and it is easy to go there portal from Stormcrest to Dalanthar, Spellgard to North Point or ship from Leringard to Hurm and walk a few areas. Secondly you avoid the "Well we definatly need a mage/cleric for this because I am not going there without insertbuffyouneedhere" so you can pretty fast find a few to go have some fun without the risk of dying to a spell or some nasty ability((Unless you travel really far in and then you should know it gets dangerous just before it gets deadly))
- It is a nice area to sit in Of course who doesn't like the titleset and the way it has been build, it is a nice area that is for sure :)
I will have to make it absolutely clear that I have no problem with the no magic area and the fighters having a place to play at all. However one should not over use an area just because it is build for ones class, just as mages/sorcs shouldn't tour up and down on Belinara wailing and weirding everything there.
In the end I think it is a shift of people on the server, for me it seems that most from the old Hlint days are either hiding somewhere untill a quest they would like to join comes up or ends up spending an hour or so sitting in Hempstead or the Stormcrest whitout much happening. The majority of the server now opposed to before spends most of its time scattered around trying to find new adventure and fun instead of as it happened back then everyone gathered in Hlint and went out on occation.
Since more people spend more time doing other stuff they gain more xp and the levels on the server rise. The reason why some have been leveling way faster than most is because of the shift from sitting RP to walking/running RP. On another note it is also more about knowing people now than it was before you don't get to go that many places unless you know someone who would like to go if you want to go there. It makes the cores of these groups stronger than most, but then again unless more random grouping up happens there is a lesser chance that the new person in Hempstead/Vhel will get help with doing something.
However we still have a great community that helps the low level people who just started, not in a bad way by throwing everything they have at the spaws killing them fast but by simply just standing back and letting the low level do the most of the work to get the price although this way is safer and easier than doing it alone. But well if no one bothers to stay back at Hempstead, Stormcrest or Vehl because all the fun is centred around the Central server we will end up closing for the stream of new players to replace those who leaves every now and then.
Is this a change for to good or the bad? Well you can never be sure really, depends on what you want. Some might not like this change others might, however as long as there is RP to be found out there somewhere I will be here. My leveling doesn't really matter much, as long as I have fun doing something in the world that be killing monsters, sitting on a bench or figuring out why something strange just happened at some location it is going to be all fun I like it.
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Just a quick point:
I find it funny when someone of level 21+ says "Levels don't matter now" ... That's because you got there!
I know there is great RP, and frankly, had I more than a couple of hours per day and maybe one full day of the week to play I would create a pure crafter and/or trader character and just enjoy the cities/people RP opposed to the adventuring life.
I've had so much fun in layo that at times I caught myself roleplaying alone in some areas, or with NPCs just because I was way immersed on the game.
But not all of us have time to jump to level 20 in some months like I've seen happening with many folks here.
As for items, and everyone hunting on the thunderpeaks/wherever for great loot/XP, I'd like to see what jrizz is saying happening and I can't wait for the fix to be released.
I like the level progression in layo, my only problem is not having time enough to play.
Would it be awsome to see the toughest areas and enemies? Yes, most definatly. However I can wait.
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Just a quick point:
I find it funny when someone of level 21+ says "Levels don't matter now" ... That's because you got there!
You know...not everyone who has gotten to 21+ has gotten there in just a few months. Speaking only for myself, it took me about 15 months to get to 20 and about as long again to reach 25th. Granted, there are other circumstance at work for the 20-25 stretch, but the point is that this didn't come because I had some need to get up to 21 as quickly as possible because somehow that would make things more fun. I got there through the natural progression of my character. I was never one to do grinding loops of any area to farm gold, XP and items.
And yeah, I climbed the 3 million barrier without a ECDQ/WLDQ and it was not that big of a deal....really.
As for items, and everyone hunting on the thunderpeaks/wherever for great loot/XP, I'd like to see what jrizz is saying happening and I can't wait for the fix to be released.
The fix has been released. Loot and gold drops are now much more under control and far less generous (meaning, in line with where they should have been). We can tune things as we go now, so there'll be no more protracted periods of large amounts of valuable loot falling into the hands of the few. It's an unfortunate turn of events that let things be so permissive for so long, but all we can really do is fix it and move on. Right now, we have control of things, so they can only get better. :)
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Just a quick point:
I find it funny when someone of level 21+ says "Levels don't matter now" ... That's because you got there!
It might sound wrong comming from me, but I have been her for over two years now, and yes I can pretty much go anywhere if I would like to. But the point I am trying to make is that it wouldn't make it more fun for me to be level 40 than it was when I was level 1-20, sure I hadn't seen as much back then but that wasn't what made it fun for me, it was rather the challenge of being in a new group finding out the dynamics and such.
And back when I was level 15 most of the fun was sitting in Hlint talking to whoever passed through, Storold isn't known as the official benchwarmer of Hlint for nothing but those days are gone now so most of my time are spend either traveling somewhere or sitting in Hempstead talking to people or staring at the lack of people there. Not that I am complaining here but that is just how things are there most of the time.
Right now it hurts more than before having less hours avalible to be online because you don't get to know all that many if you don't travel around looking for people or know someone who knows another someone you haven't met. But as long as you know someone that you play with a lot who is around your level and likes to travel with you, you shouldn't be in trouble. However if this isn't the case you will spend a lot of time doing nothing or running around alone crafting and such which in the end wont get you much XP because you cn't really solo anything within your CR unless you are really lucky and then it is only a few areas or such
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In response to Dorg: I'm glad to hear about the fix and the changes for better and yeah I didn't mean every epic character got there real quick, I know there are some players that are here forever compared to my time on the server and they worked hard be it hunting or roleplaying to get there. Sorry if that came out rude on my previous post.
To Pibemanden: I see your point and understand it.
"Right now it hurts more than before having less hours avalible to be online because you don't get to know all that many if you don't travel around looking for people or know someone who knows another someone you haven't met. But as long as you know someone that you play with a lot who is around your level and likes to travel with you, you shouldn't be in trouble. However if this isn't the case you will spend a lot of time doing nothing or running around alone crafting and such which in the end wont get you much XP because you cn't really solo anything within your CR unless you are really lucky and then it is only a few areas or such"
Sometimes is hard to keep up with your friends, if you don't have the time available. =]
The good side of this is always meeting new people and having new generations of "friends you hang out/hunt/RP with"
I let some of it bug me in the beggining, but it was making me not enjoy my play time, worried with levels and keeping up.
Once I let all that go and started meeting some great new players and old players characters I saw what's most important for me;
It's making the little time I have as fun as possible for me and these people.
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The one thing that makes this issue compilcated is the difference in peoples play time and the correlation of that play time to quests and other people of similar bent. I happen to be blessed with a lot of play time at this stage of my life and I happen to also have been very blessed to have access to a lot of quests. I agree with Pibemanden that quests and RP are the best part of Layo. I leveled pretty quickly since I've been here but that is because I was able to do lots of quests (3-4 a week some times) even with giving up almost 500000 XP waiting for a CDQ for a PrC (I had to have it subracted to stay at 15th level since I had to get 5 levels of the PrC before 20). I also have 6-8 hours a day to play right now and a bunch of regular people that play around the same times. I think that way over half of my XP has been given by GMs for RP or for quests. I am probably on the extreme end of how fast you can level and still stay in the spirit of the RP server.
The other end is the person who only has a couple of hours every so often and is in a weird time zone. It's very hard to get XP any way at all in that case.
So even though it's possible to grind and level fast just by that, it is also possible to level fast just because you play a lot. I don't think it's really fair to just look at the number of months someone has been playing a character to see if they have levelled too fast. I applaud those who have worked much harder than I have to get XP based on their play style and play times. I consider myself very luck to be able to partake of Layo the way I have been able to.
I guess I am just trying to urge people not to stereotype people simply based on their months vs. level. It may be a good first look way of telling if someone is power gaming but it's not always an indicator of being in the spirit of the server.
On another note I think its to be expected that adventuring will increase dramaitcally when a new update is put into effect and that once most people have seen the new stuff that they can things will settle back down to more sitting around and telling tales. There is a cycle of generating tales and telling tales that is natural and not a bad thing.
I am not disagreeing in a general sense with anything posted in this thread. I think for the most part the points are valid but you always have to be careful when you generalize to remember that not every individual case fits the general pattern. Most of us that play here are statisical anomalies in one way or another. :)
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The other end is the person who only has a couple of hours every so often and is in a weird time zone.
Yes, our weird timezone may mean slow level progression but it also means we get golden beaches, an ocean between us and Canada, lengthy summers, Elle Macpherson, real football, etc, etc, etc! :)
Oops, me get a thread off topic? That'd be unusual. Carry on.
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*grins* "weird" was not meant to suggest substandard in any way other than number of playing buddies available. I agree with you on the football thing by the way.
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real football
There are four codes that are refer to football, which one did you mean, Aussie Rules, League, Union or Soccer?
My guess (based on your geography, statue and social background) is Aussie Rules.
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Ha! The real football is the game they play in Heaven. The one where the World Cup has 20 nations participating (-not- just one! *squints at the Americans*) and three billion tv viewers.
Anyways, back on thread, I believe we were at skywatcher is the devil and iceyfire his chief fast-levelling demonic minion ....
:)
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I'm going to butt in here and say that I believe that in a truly RPing server, characters who have progressed rapidly seldom have the depth of character history as one who has taken more time to level. There are always exceptions to this, but in the end, this holds true for most. The only IC rationale for quick leveling is that some character is a "young upstart", "gifted or quick learned". If the RP is there, then fine.
However, the less character history, the less depth, influence, power, authority, or reputation that character tends to have. There are "ifs" and "buts" with all of this though and seldom will anyone be satisfied with some striking of balance regarding the whole leveling issue.
The uneven times to play will always be an unfortunate issue, but then when one considers that they do not have to be an epic level character to have sway in the world (and in many cases have much more sway than the epics present), this I hope will quell the issue to some extent. Take pride in your character and know that you're lowly level 9 may be percieved much more mightily than that "young upstart" level 25 by NPCs and PCs alike. That's the beauty of an RP server vs PG server. He who has the most influence wins and influence isn't based solely on sword or spell.
Lastly, I would like to offer a friendly reminder, that while this is a game for entertainment, from an RP standpoint, keep the RP going within these little adventures and quests. What I mean by that is -
On Quests:
- Higher level characters don't necessarily call all the shots. All character opinions are valuable disregarding character reputation/class/alignment.
- Know your characters role. (This I think is done very well by many).
On adventures:
- Don't party with characters your character shouldn't be partying with simply so you can explore, loot, and gain experience.
- Don't get into the kill, loot, wait, then kill "groove". It's against server rules and just horrific RP.
There. Now I feel at least somewhat satiated.
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Spot on SB225. I agree 100% on what you have to say about this.
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So even though it's possible to grind and level fast just by that, it is also possible to level fast just because you play a lot. I don't think it's really fair to just look at the number of months someone has been playing a character to see if they have levelled too fast.
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I would also like to add even though it is possible to level fast just because one plays a lot, I do not think that it is mandatory. Just because a character plays for a long period of time on the server, it does not mean that they have to gain tons of XP. A player can choose when to go adventuring. They can choose when to sit down when to Roleplay, they can choose when to craft.
When I played my sorcerer on most days the most XP that I would gain in any one sitting would be 1000-2000XP sometimes none at all. I spent a lot of my time in Hlint and other places talking to people. . .Building relationships and have fun role-playing. Sometimes I would go out adventuring but often I would turn it down because of my character’s nature and beliefs. I have even seen cases where players have asked to have RP XP taken away from their characters because they felt they have not earnt it, or they thought that they were going too fast. A person can ask a GM to do that for them. For the record, as a GM I have been asked to take away XP by a player for their character because they felt they did not deserve the award.
I tend to look at the actions of what characters have done and the rate they are gaining level to gauge if they are powerlevelling or not. Characters who level quickly but RP and sit down a lot tend to go to a lot of quests, or they are being awarded RP XP. I think that even though this type of gaining levels is reasonable and is even better if the character sometimes pulls out of a quest because it doesn’t fit with their player.
Now remember I am not saying that it is in bad spirit people shouldn’t be adventuring. This is after all a Role-play Action Server. Rather, what I am saying is that it is that just because a character is on for long periods of time, doesn’t mean that they are going/or have to gain a gross amount of XP. It is the player’s choice to gain XP. Players get to decide what their players want to do. If they decide to go adventuring….its is their choice to make.
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To get back on the initial track... I'm going to pull out SquareKnot's data again from 120 days recorded last summer....
Average Time Played by Layonara Characters During this Time:
5202 minutes
Highest Time Played by a Single Layonara Character During this Time:
60675 minutes
Average Level of Characters Playing During this Time Period:
9.31
Number of Characters Playing Over 20,000 Minutes:
58
Average Level of Characters Playing Over 20,000 Minutes:
16.59
Number of Characters Playing Between 10,000 and 19,999 Minutes:
71
Average Level of Characters Playing Between 10,000 and 19,999 Minutes:
16.1
Number of Characters Playing Between 1,000 and 9,999 Minutes:
343
Average Level of Characters Playing Between 1,000 and 9,999 Minutes:
9.35
I'll spare all the rest of the junk in that lengthy post of mine though and I'm not going to peddle any of the points except the following. :rolleyes:
It's not possible to hit both ends of the bell curve.
It never will be. And I think Layonara has been fine tuning the game for so long, geared towards building an RP environment, that rate of progression probably isn't going to get any better for the server.
I really don't think it will get any better then where it currently is. If we were to try, we probably wouldn't see the actual results* of it for quite some time, making it even more futile, even if we do have another year of NWN Layo. *Results being the effect on the server as a roleplay server, which would take some time to observe I should think
I'm having a great time online right now, and that's saying something because I have a chronic distaste for playing in my own areas. So I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's the people around, the excitement, and the roleplay. I don't think we need any changes. Things are good.
I do see issues with new players. Pibe, to my surprise, made a very good point. :p The problem with having some of the new hubs on central/ east is going to be an issue for low levels. I actually almost put a level 6 area off the Thunder xroads to complete the all-level pull aspect to it. I think the best we can do is try and get back on West with our characters, try and expose people to the portal to Dalanthar and the safe routes there, so if they do just want to be with people, who have often times now been pooled up at the Thunder xroads, they can go to that campfire without fear of being in trouble. Yeah, there's the issue of lack of adventure, but let's face it... 95%* of the server is sticking with their main characters right now... so it's kinda headed down that road any way you slice it (*79% of statistics are made up on the spot).
Regarding the point of levels, rates, roleplay, whatever... I've heard it a thousand times over on these forums. You know, there are so many bloody variables compounded by multiple forms of disparity, be them time invested, timezones, builds, social aptitude, preferences, whatever... that it's all mostly a moot and unrecordable point. You can say that you have to take x amount of time to make an RP character at a certain level but I say it's bunk. You're either roleplaying while you're doing what you're doing or you're not.
The only fair statement in any of it, and the one to take to heart in your playstyle, is if your actions warrant a place in the minds of the many people on the server. If they don't... hey, I say it's fine. I've got a character like that, Abi, who I had a fair bit of fun with. Empty feeling in my impact on the world or not, it was fun, he faded out, that's that. I know I'm not in a place to get out the measuring stick on it with people who have made their mark, and I'm okay with it. I can think of loads of characters like this, and it doesn't mean they're evil or a detriment to things. They are roleplaying as they do what it is they do, they just don't stick to the minds of the rest of the players in the world. At the end of the day most of us want to be in the minds of the rest of the players, and many who have leveled fast change their course a bit with that character, hey maybe she's level 23, but it's not too late to stick with it and make a lasting impression. Some start a new character, one that they can go from scratch with, trying to make sure they have a character impact on everyone they possibly can. I have no preference for either track, and I never think it's too late. You can wake up one day and decide that it's time to make that stamp on the world. It just means for some, that while they've been roleplaying (perhaps wonderfully), they're starting at level 1 many times on this course. A lot of posters like to overstate this, say that such and such equates to a lost cause. It has been continually proven false.
At a certain point, maybe the beginning for some, maybe the end for others... it's wanting to be in the minds of the other players. Makes it feel like it's all worthwhile. And for that I'll go with the investment clause that people like to overstate. But roleplay is roleplay, it's playing a role. Maybe you're the fire that burns out fast and never overly bright. Maybe you're the slow burner that everyone comes to know. Or, maybe you're the gigantic hellball that continually strikes... I'll leave that one to the evils. But, the only lesson I've learned in any of this is to last. You'll overcome any of the negative points possible because as a matter of course you'll learn that you want at least a little bit of a slow burner that everyone knows.
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Shadowblade brought up a good point:
Higher level characters don't necessarily call all the shots. All character opinions are valuable disregarding character reputation/class/alignment.
Well Said!
I'll expand on it.
One of my gripes about people flying past me in levels is that when they begin from level 1, they're all respective to my char, hang around and roleplay with my character, interact and adventure whilst grabbing plenty of XP along the way. Then all of a sudden, when they pass my characters level they become disrepecting, do not wish to adventure with me or aid my character in the mini-quests the way I used to aid theirs. This type of thing is clearly metaming against levels and the reason I brought it up was due to shadowblades quote above.
We should all assume that at any given moment all characters are equal unless we know that character well enough IG. Therefore during a quest, regardless if a player is level 8 versus 28, that person at level 8 could very well lead a party just as well as the level 28 person. There is something that happens to the mind of players when they hit epic that makes them think every quest is their own personal CDQ. It's usually at this point that I can get quite nasty.
Usually what I do during quests is force someone of low level to lead. I used to do this with Dezza's char Sasha all the time. We'd have epics in the party all arguing the correct course of action but I'd always push Sasha to lead, much to the disappointment of the others. Maybe it's my vindictive a side and by doing so I'm also metagaming in manner of speaking, but I always like battling for the under-dogs.
Ever notice that when a fighter character of level 20 logs on central he/she will get a million tells to join him and in moments that's where every player is. Or that when a new character has begun from hampshire, spots a well known epic char and immediately flocks to him/her before they have any idea who that person is.
We all do it and this is evident with the mini-quests and points of interest. At the end of the day I couldn't care less about how people level and how fast they do, I would simply like people that level rediculously fast to have the same respect for level 1 characters as they do to level 30 and not have an attitude shift when they become eipc.
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I agree totally Polak76. I wish the level of the characters were not even listed on the server status. I never look at it for that reason. I don't want to know what level characters are. I don't want to track how fast so and so is leveling or how long they have been playing. I just want to see people there and interact with them. For people to watch how fast another character levels and make value judgements on them based on that alone is just unacceptable in my book. Meet people in game and make judgments based on their behavior and RP not the numbers on the server status screen. I liked it when deities were taken off the server status screen. Maybe it's time to take level off of it as well. Then people just wouldn't know so they wouldn't get upset about it. The team still has the info if they need to get onto someone but level has very little place in RP. I would like to see reputation and RP more govern the responses of characters to one another in game.
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I agree totally Polak76. I wish the level of the characters were not even listed on the server status. I never look at it for that reason. I don't want to know what level characters are. I don't want to track how fast so and so is leveling or how long they have been playing. I just want to see people there and interact with them. For people to watch how fast another character levels and make value judgements on them based on that alone is just unacceptable in my book. Meet people in game and make judgments based on their behavior and RP not the numbers on the server status screen. I liked it when deities were taken off the server status screen. Maybe it's time to take level off of it as well. Then people just wouldn't know so they wouldn't get upset about it. The team still has the info if they need to get onto someone but level has very little place in RP. I would like to see reputation and RP more govern the responses of characters to one another in game.
well said!
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Just wanna throw this in there. Once about a month or 2 ago i tried to get in on a quest Orion was running that had been going on a while. I was maybe level 13 or 14. And Ozy was there, Rhynn, I think Kobal.. Lots of Epics... (nothing against any of you, BTW). I tried just to get the basic facts of what was going on, but they just kept going on about their plan. I'll admit they did try to fill me in but I couldnt grasp the quest in 10 minutes (my fault for joining a series in the middle). But who says I couldnt have made a difference if i did know what was happening... *shrugs*
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Personally I think everyone gets just as vindictive about levels themselves as others supposedly metagame them. Both sides of the fence as far as I'm concerned - there are people who mindlessly ride the coattails of higher level characters in hopes of catching some glory, and people who bitterly deny status that is well deserved on account of the same obsession with a higher number, blaming IC situations on OOC perceptions. Once you are in either camp you've gone astray, from where I'm sitting.
As to joining a quest series in the middle, that is always difficult and I would try not to judge too harshly the leaders of them when one is coming in late. I wasn't there, but having personally explained the same quest story many many times (as both high and low level as it spanned both for me) and taking great chunks of GM sessions to do so and still getting trashed for being involved, I tend to sympathize. I recommend in future scenarios to make use of quest forums now that we have them, and nagging people incessantly for information. Hehe.
Another thing I tried to do was find out who was going to come ahead of time and metagame it (sue me) by actively having my character seek them out and ask them for help, if it was appropriate. That way I got to do fill in ahead of time. But that is very rarely a possibility so while I know and have felt on more than one occasion the same confusion of "what the heck are you guys going on about" - not as a low level player but just as often as an epic on a lower average quest! - I encourage the sharing of information as much as humanly possible, but also try to understand from my own experience that the IG GM session is not often the best time for an extensive report unless there are so many new people and so few old that it would be ridiculous to even try moving without sitting around for an hour filling everyone in. ;) Low or high, the person with all the info is the one that's going to have the best advantage. I just kept my head above water on higher level quests by logging everything and paying attention, heh. It's sink or swim, whether epic or not!
(To respond to the actual topic - I don't personally see the value in suddenly jumping in level. I kind of figure that near the end, everyone will be allowed to run around doing whatever anyway, so crashing the time beforehand with meaningless level jumps seems kind of pointless to me. But then again, I tend to have more fun depending on the people I'm around, not the area I'm in. I can understand the burning need for SMD, though. Heh.)
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But then again, I tend to have more fun depending on the people I'm around, not the area I'm in.
Spot on. I'd give you a thanks but my views on challengers to my soon to come title of 'Overlord of the Thanks Count' are well documented. Even so, I am still tempted.
PS. If I wasn't so petty I also would have given Shadowblade225 a thanks for his post above with which I totally agree.
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*Thanks Acacea just to spite Pseudonym* ;)
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*thanks Dorg on principle*
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On the subject of people who can't play often lagging behind in xp...
Maybe an increase in double-xp weekends, specifically on calendar holidays that most people get off from work, would help? I smell a Labor Day on the horizon, and I'm pretty sure most of us hard-working busy-bodies have that day off. *wink wink*
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oh joy! *sarcastic tone*
And for those of us that work weekends and have family's? Or it isn't a holiday for them as they don't live in the US.
Never mind that although quite a few people enjoyed the double XP weekend I personally have never seen such a huge slip in RP or peoples consideration and attitude towards each other as I did that weekend.
We are an RP server for heavens sake....I fail to see how everyone grubbing around attempting to make as much XP as possible in a small space of time actually helps with that
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Although the thought of double XP weekend has its draws I don't think it would help the issue of some characters lagging behind unless the people who played more didn't participate. If everyone participated according to their play time it would probably widen the gap that already exists. I thnk diverse play schedules is just one of those things that will always be there. Someone who can play 40 hours a week will always have an advantage over someone who can only play 4 hours per week.
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*Thanks Acacea just to spite Pseudonym* ;)
393 in just what? One year of the new forums?
Dorg, I think you've flown under the radar for long enough. It's time to have a talk about you're extreme disregard for the proper rate of progression in the thanks category. I know it may be fun for you, but it's time to wake up to the idea that Layonara is a community, and there's a certain atmosphere to this community that we're trying to maintain. Hitting almost 400 thanks in just one year goes against the spirit of these forums. I have logs that show you moving up more then 50 thanks in just one day. This is clearly against the spirit of things here at Layonara. A GM will talk to you at some point soon to have some of these potentially removed. I hope you can understand the environment we're trying to maintain and how you need to learn to be a working part of it.
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393 in just what? One year of the new forums?
Nah...more like 6 or 7 months....over 100 in the last couple of weeks...
I know, I know...I'm a PT...Power Thankee. I've been drafting behind goodwill and soaking up TPs (Thanks Points) like a sponge.
I apologize to the community for my disregard of this important community concept.
*bows head in shame*
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Well I have been here the whole time of these new forums and have only 33 Thanks and more importantly have balanced my Thanks received with Thanks given. I think everyone should be required to limit their Thanks recieved to the Thanks given because that's obviously the best way to keep things under control. Those Thanks grinders out there that think they are better than the rest of us have to be controlled somehow for the best of the community.
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*sits in her chair knees drawn up to her chest and giggles as she reads*
This is what the community needs....fun...I love it here...you guys are great!
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oh joy! *sarcastic tone*
Never mind that although quite a few people enjoyed the double XP weekend I personally have never seen such a huge slip in RP or peoples consideration and attitude towards each other as I did that weekend.
She'll shoot me for this....but....*sighs*...I gotta disagree a little.... just a little.
Yep...there were times when pure and simple grind was ongoing....
...but there was also some bloody good RP still going on. Maybe's hard to find....but it was there.
I recall a group I was with getting hit with the RP wand .... and a few rather good arguements and banter going on in North Point when we were supposed to be hunting minotaurs.
The whole double XP weekend was fun.... so long as people dont go totally crazy on it... which I didn't really see too much of. But then.... all depends where you are really.
As for fast-leveling... well...if you have the time to put into it.... then good for you. Level away.
But someone said it best above me....cant check now Im writing....
... you may RP minimum and hit level 21 pretty fast.....
..but then all the other high levels you start joining on quests and adventures are gonna be " er...who are you again?"
You wont know them well....wont have RP'd with them.....you'll miss out on all the fun arguements and friendship banter that comes from RPing with someone or several people over a long period of time.
To me....thats what can make something as simple as going to pick corn with people a hoot or mundane.
RP first.....fight later.
But...er....thats just me. Dont flame me for it....I just saw all the cool kids doing it and wanted to join in ;)
Oh er.....we were on about our Thanks count weren't we?
*sighs, loots at his meagre Thanks count and slinks away*
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She'll shoot me for this....but....*sighs*...I gotta disagree a little.... just a little.
Yep...there were times when pure and simple grind was ongoing....
...but there was also some bloody good RP still going on. Maybe's hard to find....but it was there.
I recall a group I was with getting hit with the RP wand .... and a few rather good arguements and banter going on in North Point when we were supposed to be hunting minotaurs.
The whole double XP weekend was fun.... so long as people dont go totally crazy on it... which I didn't really see too much of. But then.... all depends where you are really.
*laughs* Not gonna shoot you....I said 'personally' because what *I* personally experienced was that. I'm glad some people did get positive experiences out of that double XP weekend....I just really, really didn't.
And I mean over the entire weekend I didn't *shrugs* maybe I just had the worlds most unlucky weekend that weekend.
Also remember I have a family....and work 7 hours on a Saturday and a Sunday....till 10pm at night so all a double XP weekend is gonna be to me is that thing I watch from the sidelines.
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thanks dorg just to keep psuedo that much farther behind for the overlord title:
beyond that
yes its hard redoing the lower levels when you dont have 10 friends about to go en masse into areas
but i have found its been more fun and i have been able to divert from doing the exact same thing with my new druid then i did with drogo
he was a primal battle beast plain and simple
khuren yes he has his moments: still can get that taste out of his mouth: is more refined having had a mentor for 70 plus years to teach him all sides of the box
he crafts some,not very good but he tries
and he hunts when needed but he thinks before he drunken dwarf charges
maybe cause there are no drunken dwarves to show him how only a singing dancing one
levels during quests dont mean a thing,yes they could have a set focus but it doesnt mean the lowest level present doesnt have impact
we love layo no matter how much we whine moan and complain
we are at home in the vision L has given us to see and we will still be about in the future
what we cant do is sit and grow stagnant
we can help the new people and show them this amazing place that we have loved for so long
and though nwn is old and ancient and dying
layo is simply in its current ascension
its up to us to evolve with it
double xp was fun will it jump a few people higher sure
the lower levels will jump more then the ones at 14 plus
will this happen
maybe maybe
not
but does it matter if it happens
no
play your char
wander around
kill something if thats what your char does
craft something if thats what your char does
forget levels and just play
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oh joy! *sarcastic tone*
And for those of us that work weekends and have family's? Or it isn't a holiday for them as they don't live in the US.
Never mind that although quite a few people enjoyed the double XP weekend I personally have never seen such a huge slip in RP or peoples consideration and attitude towards each other as I did that weekend.
We are an RP server for heavens sake....I fail to see how everyone grubbing around attempting to make as much XP as possible in a small space of time actually helps with that
How about a Zero-Xp Weekend with 24-hour rest timers then? Would that help increase your RP?
:P
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How about a Zero-Xp Weekend with 24-hour rest timers then? Would that help increase your RP?
:P
how about a shifting world ?
one day only areas where you can survive with magic , the other a world you only can survive without magic and a lot of armor and HP ?
Of-course the changes will be at random ...what means -NO ONE - can solo ...sure way to increase RP *grins and runs *
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How about a Zero-Xp Weekend with 24-hour rest timers then? Would that help increase your RP?
:P
Excellent idea!!! Can we have one of those please?
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Or just change the module to be one big open area with nothing in it and then everyone would have nothing else to do but sit and talk. Everyone would be in the same area and equal in items and XP potential and no one would be able to solo unless they were the only one on the server. It's such a simple and elegant solution I don't know why the team hasn't figured it out yet. Seems it would solve all of the problems of leveling too fast, grinding, soloing, and be a lot less work for the team because no one would lose soul strands or items or XP that would need to be reimbursed. No need for updates and multiple servers. It would probably be cheaper too. I can't imagine may bug reports. :)
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Now we are just getting silly. One of the things I noticed at a young age is that people tend to manifest drama for no good reasons. In later years I decided that this is a primal instinct. You see, every animal on the earth except for many of the humans, live day by day struggling to survive in a world of predators. Always on the search for food, and always weary of what is trying to eat them. Most of us humans have broken away from this life pattern. Thus we manifest imaginary drama for the sake of fulfilling our need for fight or flight instinct and survival.
Maybe if some people would get out and hunt more. Glory in the blood on their blades, and feeling of doom and despair as their characters exploded into a pool of blood with the soul mother yanking yet another strand.... Maybe then these people would stop complaining about everyone else and their problems.
And please do not flame me. As much as I shrug off being flamed, it still hurts.
AeonBlues
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Or just change the module to be one big open area with nothing in it and then everyone would have nothing else to do but sit and talk. ... :)
After all, persistent worlds are just big, glorified chat rooms after all. ;) *ducks*