The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chongo on October 02, 2007, 06:35:58 PM
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Well, since my computer decided to implode today during my quest, I think it's about time I bit the bullet and bought a new one.
I know a lot about NWN, I know nothing about computers however. Any suggestions would be vastly appreciated.
I am looking for:
- Something I can order online and receive within a short period of time, ideally to have it next week and ready to go.
- The price range I'd like to stay around is 2,000 USD
- Something that will run NWN well as well as the next generation(s) of Layo. I would love to never again crash, and to furthermore enjoy games at max graphics settings.
- Something without a ton of excess programs
- Something with simplistic but bullet proof security (i.e. I would love to not have McAffee or Norton running gigantic programs in the background)
- Something that is not a neon green computer with 'GAMING HAX0R' written on the side and that doubles as a machine where normal work type programs can be run.
Any suggestions, preferably with a link, would be hugely appreciated. There are a lot of folks in here who know a lot that could make it so that I can do about three times the amount of module work in the same amount of time I am currently able to with the machine I have now. I have wasted hundreds of hours waiting for individual load times with NWN modules, and given that time equals money... I don't even want to consider the loss due to not buckling down and buying a good machine.
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As a suggestion:
This computer (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1770723&CatId=1815), while slightly "l33t Haxxor", has a decent system, preassembled, at a decent price. And TigerDirect tends to be quick off the proverbial mark. (Plus, you can order it through the Layo site. :D)
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*looks at Chongo's list of prerequisites*
Haven't you seen the ads?
If you get a Mac you get to check all those prerequisite boxes AND wear a hoodie jumper and jeans all the time and poke fun at those boring old fuddy-duddy PC users and their problems. You might even score a role in the next Bruce Willis movie.
*hugs his own Mac*
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I would say go with a mac as well but I am not sure if there is builder support for the mac.
With that said if you go for a PC the things to focus on are the graphics card (GPU), processor (CPU), and memory in that order of importance.
On the GPU you want to have one of these cards:
256MB PCI ExpressTM NVIDIA® GeForceTM 7300LE TurboCache8
256MB ATI Radeon X1300 Pro
256MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GS
for the CPU:
Intel® CoreTM 2 Duo Processor E6400 (2MB L2 Cache,2.13GHz,1066)
Intel® CoreTM 2 Duo Processor E6600 (4MB L2 Cache,2.4GHz,1066)
Intel® CoreTM 2 Duo Processor E6700 (4MB L2 Cache,2.66GHz,1066)
On memory you want 2 GB Dual-Channel DDR21 SDRAM (667MHz, 2 DIMMs)
All in all the above system from darkstorme (tigerdirect) should do everything you want and at a really good price.
On the security thing, if you dont want a mac then you will be using mcafee or norton or you will be hacked/infected/spyware'd to death.
If you do look at macs, the new imacs are rocking and at great prices.
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I agree with Darkstorme. Search TigerDirect Chongo, its good for deals and effeciancy.
Oh! And stay faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar away from Vista. Trust me.
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I personally prefer going through Best Buy when buying systems now because
A) any savings I get from an online site are usually offset by the shipping, a product of our price on oil
B) The systems they have there are a decent price, though modestly equipped. I got an AMD Dualcore 4200+ w/ 1gb RAM (max 4gb) and a 512gb HD for around 600 bucks half a year ago.. tossed in a Geforce 7600 512mb DDR2 video card for 99 bucks on a sale, 2 more 1 GB RAM chips for about 120 bucks, and now it flies through the FPS of Bioshock, Oblivion, Gothic 3 and every other power hog games I've tried on it.
C) I went through hell ordering online. I went through this one company that sent me a barebones setup DOA that I had to ship back. Any time you ship something back for your money, it takes at least a month for those miserly buggarts to process your return, and then they tax you something like 15-20% th total price for repackaging the unit that doesn't work only because of their own incompetence in building it. Basically I paid the company 90 bucks + 80 bucks worth of shipping to hold my money for a month before returning it to me.
D) In contrast, the Best Buy 3-year service plan costs around 10%, BUT if you ever have a problem with your machine in those 3 years, they will fix it fairly quickly. A general rule of thumb is that if they look like they're not busy but they tell you it wont be fixed for a day or two, just raise a big ruckus screaming at them about fraud at the customer service desk. Then some manager will literally sprint to your cause, and brown nose you for the next 15 minutes while your service order gets prioritized. Sadly, since most managers are spineless sycophants and seek to avoid customer conflict as much as possible, this tactic works every time. Use it, it's a fine art. This is how you motivate the tech shop... even if they get mad and break your computer, your warranty will fetch a brand new one of equal value off the shelf, if you are loud enough.
D) The return desk works on positive reinforcement. The person who works at the return desk is so harried from angry people yelling at them all day, as long as you have your reciept, smile, speak softly and kindly to them, they will happily process your return with few questions asked. You can even say "hey, I just didn't like it" with no fault to the product itself whatsoever, and they'll take the return. If you stroll up with a chip on your shoulder though and try to use techstaff tactics on them, they will deny your return in a heartbeat, just because they can. They realise in their job that they have the power to deny you your money, and it gives them sick pleasure if you are a blowhard. On the other hand, the profit of the company means little to them since they only make 8 bucks an hour, their job sucks, so they will gladly refund literally anything you bring them, spilled soda, boogers and all, as long as you make their day a little nicer with your presence. All you need is the receipt and 14 days, no questions asked. Overall, I've returned over 5-6 computer parts on a whim and they always gave me my money back on the spot.
E) Once you buy a computer, you finally save up enough best buy bucks to buy one good game or a couple CDs. And they usually have a pretty decent power metal section... ours puts most record stores to shame.
As for Macs, they are flat out too tacky for me. It's like driving a modern VW bug... so sickly looking, and none of the nostalgic soul of the original is preserved. No more hippie flower vases!
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Ah the beauty of Best Buy...
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Well it was recommended to me by someone else to buy some sort of box that you plug in behind your modem which is some sort of 'real' firewall. Can't for the life of me remember what it was though.
Dark, Dorg says to go heavier on the video card... that thing come with any upgrades?
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Get a GeForce8 Series, 256bits... (DirectX10)
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I'd say build your own if you have the experience. You can put together a better machine that you know better than one you can buy. If you can't and you have 2k to spend then look here as well:
Alienware: Compare All Desktops! (http://www.alienware.com/Product_Pages/desktop_all_default.aspx?source=ECH0019)
their desktops start at 1200 and Alienware built a reputation by being good at making gaming rigs.
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Yeah alienware is the best of the best but to take there low end system (1300 bucks) and get it to a decent state you will hit 2k before monitor, service, and shipping. That being said, doooood Dual 256MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 8600 GTS - SLI Enabled is the SHEEEET.
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Dell used computers arent bad either, and new ones are pricey though, I had to check back for about two months till the one I built was within my price range with some savings they tacked on to it.
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I have always enjoyed Dell computers and have never had issues with compatability on games or performance. I also like the way they let you select to the minute detail the components you want. All of my computers are Dell XPS gaming machines. I came up with the below specs in a quick visit to dell.com. The price for this configuration was $2033. They have shipping options for as little as 3 business day shipping and it usually takes them a day or two to build the system. Hope that helps.
Its a Dell XPS 710 desktop with:
PROCESSOR Intel Core2 Duo Processor E6750 (2MB L2 Cache,2.66GHz,1333 FSB)
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows XP Media Center 2005 Edition with re-installation CD
MEMORY 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 2 DIMMs
HARD DRIVE 250GB - Seagate 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 8MB Cache
OPTICAL DRIVE Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability
MONITOR 19 inch SE198WFP Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor
VIDEO CARD 256MB nVidia GeForce 8600 GTS
SOUND CARD Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
KEYBOARD Dell USB Keyboard
MOUSE Dell Optical USB Mouse
FLOPPY & MEDIA READER No Floppy Drive or Media Reader Included
MODEM No Modem Requested
My Software & Accessories
SPEAKERS Dell AS501PA 10W Flat Panel Attached Spkrs for Analog Flat Panels
ANTI-VIRUS & SECURITY McAfee SecurityCenter with anti-virus, anti-spyware, firewall, 36-months
PRODUCTIVITY No Productivity software pre-installed
My Service
WARRANTY AND SERVICE DellCare Value
DATASAFE ONLINE BACKUP DataSafe included with DellCare Service bundle
DIAL-UP INTERNET ACCESS No ISP requested
ALSO INCLUDED WITH YOUR SYSTEM
Labels Windows XP
Adobe Software Adobe Acrobat Reader 8.1
PHOTOS, MUSIC & MORE! No Entertainment software pre-installed
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that is a solid 3 year system system right there. The only thing that is an issue is the hard drive, but you can always add another one later or use a external. I went with a top of the line XPS 4 years ago and the only thing I upgraded since then was the GPU (went to a 9800 pro). It is still a great system for NWN (NWN2 runs ok on it). That system cost 3K at the time. BTW I am getting rid of it and going with a imac :P
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How does this read:
Price: 1909.00
[1] Aurora™ 7500
Alienware P2 Chassis: Alienware® P2 Chassis with AlienIce™ 3.0 Video Cooling - Space Black
System Lighting: Alienware® Standard System Lighting - Lunar White
High-Performance Liquid Cooling: Alienware® Standard System Cooling
Power Supply: Alienware® 700 Watt Multi-GPU Approved Power Supply
Graphics Processor: Single Graphics Processors - 320MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 8800 GTS - Superclocked!
Processor: AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 6000+ Processor w/ HyperTransport and Dual Core Technology
Memory: 2GB DDR2 Performance SDRAM at 800MHz - 2 x 1024MB
Motherboard: Alienware® Approved NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI Motherboard
Operating System (Office software not included): Genuine (http://javascript:OpenDetailsWindow('/Configurator_Pages/Details_Pages/Static_Pages/genuine_microsoft.aspx');) Windows® XP Professional
Desktop Tuners and Remotes: Media Center upgrade options are not available with Windows XP Professional.
System Drive: Single Drive Configuration - 250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7,200 RPM w/ 16MB Cache
Optical Drives : Single Drive Configuration - 20X Dual-Layer DVD±RW w/ LightScribe
Enthusiast Essentials: Dual High Performance Gigabit Ethernet Ports
Sound Card: High-Definition 7.1 Performance Audio - Standard
Video Optimizer: AlienAdrenaline v1.0: Video Performance Optimizer - Only Compatible with Windows XP!
Monitor: No Monitor
Keyboard: Alienware® USB Full-Size Keyboard
Mouse : Alienware® Optical 3-Button Mouse with Scroll Wheel
Warranty: 1-Year AlienCare Toll-Free 24/7 Phone Support w/ Onsite Service
Alienware Extras: Alienware® Mesh Cap
Alienware Extras: Alienware® Mousepad
Alienware Extras: Alienware® Desktop Binder
Alienware Extras: Owner Identification Card
Alienware Extras: Internal Wire Management
Avatar: Alien Schematic
Window Style: Green Window Style
Mouse Pointers: Standard Mouse Pointers
Wallpaper: Alien Cyborg (Widescreen)
Power Plan: Standard Power Plan
Then I'm planning on purchasing a monitor off tigerdirect (suggest away), going with OpenOffice, then a free antivirus (suggest away) + one of those boxes I still need to find the paper on what they are...
Please comment. This is my initial foray into this. It does seem that Alienware has a pretty sharp productline, a potentially more reliable and easy to use service, and as far as I can tell that's a decent computer above.
Compared to Darkstorme's suggestion below?
Oh, and I am not going the mac route. Thanks though.
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Hm... well...
As always, my personal suggestion is to build one's own computer from parts. The one I have right now is:
Case: Chieftec something-something
This particular manufacturer is probably the best one in the world. Well thought out considering space inside in most of their midi-tower cases and easy to install.
Motherboard: Asus P5B Deluxe WiFi/AP
There are two big companies I trust most when it comes to motherboards, and that's Abit and Asus. This particular motherboard is of an older chipset so perhaps a P5K series motherboard (if bying from Asus) is prefered. Although, for the moment, this one is fine enough to suit one's needs unless one plans to overclock a 1333 FSB CPU.
CPU: Intel Quad Core Q6600
Why buy dual core when you can have four considering that the price is almost the same? Q6600 costs about $300 here. This one really, really sticks out among the other quad cores, as its price is considerable lower (we are talking about 50%-ish compared to next-in-line Q6700). Stock clocked at 2.4 GHz for each core, in my opinion, there is no reason what-so-ever to buy... say... an E6850 (dual core, 3 GHz each core) which costs about the same.
Now... a small detail here... if one can get one's hands on a Q6600 with a G0-stepping, then it's absolutely perfect. With a top-of-the-line cooler I'm going to mention below, the normal B2-stepping Q6600 can easily and flawlessly be overclocked to 3.0 GHz. With the G0 one, a super stable overclock can be reached at 3.5-ish GHz (or if one prefers, "only" 3.0 GHz at a lower temperature)...
Why overclock the Intel Dual/Quad Core CPUs? Well... those small toys are blessed by the gods themselves. There has never been such a great opportunity to do that for other processor series the last... say... four years. We are talking about overclocks in the 50%+ range for all dual core processors (perhaps 30%+ "only" for quad ones).
For the Q6600, it means that an overclocked one runs around the speed of the best quad cores out there. A $300 CPU which can, with very little effort, reached speeds of a $1000 CPU...
CPU Heatsink/Fan: Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme + Scythe S-Flex 120 mm (preferable 28 dBa one)
It might sound strange why to "waste" $100 on cooling alone, and it only being an air-cooling system. Well, we do want to run our CPU at lower temperatures, actually reaching lower temperatures with this particular combination at overclocked speeds than the stock cooler at normal speeds!
There is a huge difference between airflow and noise level of fans. This one is one of the more expensive fans on the market, but on the other hand, it's the best (the one giving greatest airflow that I know of, and the noise level is as good as zero). :p
Memory: Kingston, Corsair, Crucial...
Any PC2-6400 (800 Mhz) memory from any of the big brands should do the trick. Because memory being so very cheap nowadays, perhaps one could invest in 4 GB of it? Although, 2 GB is probably enough.
HD: Samsung HD501LJ 500GB (SATA 2)
Well... doesn't really matter overly much here. Raptor disks are known for being much better than others, but I personally don't see the reason to spend a huge amount of money on those, unless one's truly creating "the" perfect gaming rig. :)
500 GB probably has the best Price/GB ratio today.
Others:
Floppy disk drive... DVD burner... Perhaps a Creative soundcard (not the cheap ones, but the ones in the $150-range with built-in CPU, are known to give fantastic sound... hehe... never tried those, though)...
Price: $1300-ish
Yes, I did leave the graphic card out, because I'm not 100% sure about that market for now.
Although, with a budget of $700 on graphic card alone... I'm sure you can find one suitable for yourself!
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On the security thing, if you dont want a mac then you will be using mcafee or norton or you will be hacked/infected/spyware'd to death.
Slightly off topic but we run many PC's without Mcafee or norton and we're not hacked/infected/spywared'd to death.
As the man in the house who knows computers (By knows computers I mean actually tries to break into peoples systems as part of his job) says....
macfee is a resource hog and norton is well rubbish....Both sit in 'adequate' section of computer protection.
We simply use AVG and spybot, both of which are available in free versions and don't hog resources.......Yes we occasionally get spyware (nothing more serious than the cookie tracking ones) but spybot has always got rid of it and we've not had a virus in well over 7 years nor have we ever been hacked.
AVG was also one of the first products to be compatible with Vista.
So...go AVG and Spybot!!! Free up your resources and have a nice safe PC!
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Oh... and as for anti-virus programs/firewalls.
My personal and only choice is F-Secure, after having used Norton, Mcafee, Panda, etc, etc...
Being quick and having a clean interface, unlike some of the others mentioned!
AVG is nice also, but for some reason, I'm more fond of F-Secure, even though the later costs a little bit (albeit not much with the 50% discount from the internet store!). :)
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A good anti-virus I have seen even in real time without hugging the system was nod32. A bit off topic hehe but eh!
As for the weeblie suggestion I'm not a pro, but it has my thumbs up. If you can how ever, depending on your funds, try to get either a sli or crossfire mobo. Nvidia cards are more $$ but better at higher resolution, ati are less $$ but not as good as Nvidia, although for nwn and non hog fps related games, ati will provide you a very good quality/cost ratio.
but do go higher than 1300 if you go with ati
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A good anti-virus I have seen even in real time without hugging the system was nod32. A bit off topic hehe but eh!
As for the weeblie suggestion I'm not a pro, but it has my thumbs up. If you can how ever, depending on your funds, try to get either a sli or crossfire mobo. Nvidia cards are more $$ but better at higher resolution, ati are less $$ but not as good as Nvidia, although for nwn and non hog fps related games, ati will provide you a very good quality/cost ratio.
but do go higher than 1300 if you go with ati.
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Building a computer is not an option.
I will break it.
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On the security thing, if you dont want a mac then you will be using mcafee or norton or you will be hacked/infected/spyware'd to death.
Personally, the only reason that I go anywhere near Norton/Symantec is to uninstall it, and I can't say that I think McAfee is much better, though it is far less "do it our way or else" than Norton, which is something I have always disliked about their products. There are commercial and free alternatives that will work as well or better. Norton and McAffee have name recognition due to how long they've been around doing this sort of thing, but it's been established that the big companies can actually respond more slowly to the ever-changing threats to computers than the smaller ones. Norton and McAffee have definitely reached that level of mass.
Oh, and if one sets things up properly and is careful online, it is possible to run without any sort of active virus/spyware/malware protection and still maintain a clean system, despite what all the nay-sayers and Windows bashers will claim. ;)
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alienware rocks plain and simple
plus they will fix anything you break in the first three years
my new laptop and desktop are going to be from there
and yes if you keep a firewall and run a seeker every so often your system will stay fine without the ebol virus scanners
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I did this a while ago so I dont remember the specificis, but most malware you get on youre PC is through youre internet settings allowing whats known as "ActiveX Controls" to be initiated withought a prompt whenever you visit any site.
As I understand it the ActiveX Control feature is what allows youre windows XP updates to install from the web, instead of having to be downloaded, and then installed. Well that also meens that those nasty sites that accidentaly pop up, or send out popups, or whatever, are most likely installing somethinging bad onto youre computer, withought you ever getting a promt for it. Now The article I was reading explained all the settings and where they needed to be set so that ActiveX Controls could only be activated if you selected ok in the prompt. So I dont get any spyware anymore, and I havent run a spybot, or my personal fave, a hijackthis in many months.
One side effect is that when you are trying to download from some random website (E.g. layo haks) when you click the icon that says download now, the download will get blocked, and either a prompt will pop up saying you know, yes or no, or you get this thin yellow band right underneath youre address bar that says something like this site has attempted to activeate avtivex controls blah blah blah, and when you click that you get the promt.
In any event, in youre security venture I would advise researching ActiveX Controls, and how they need to be set so that random sites cant just activate it unawares.
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Featured Desktops (http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/cto_xpsdt_410?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs)
Try these ones out. i like the 1799 one
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If you have enough suggestions about the specific components you want, you might want to look at X Technology, Inc. - Today's Special (http://www.xtechnology.com/)
They have more customizable computers than most places, reasonable prices, and you can even select one of their "gaming computers" and put it in a non-l337 case :)
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only problem trace is those dells run vista
and vista will be terrible for another 9 months easy
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only problem trace is those dells run vista
and vista will be terrible for another 9 months easy
Vista isn't terrible now (and yes, I'm running it at work right now)...but Chongo has already expressed a desire to stay with XP, so it's kind of a moot point. :)
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As a confirmation of an above query (Jrizz, I think), you can't run the Aurora Toolkit in Mac OSX. So your options are dual-booting to Windows (at which point, you may as well buy a PC), or running VirtualPC, at which point your performance will be abysmal.
The system you have for 1909 looks rather nice... though with that much expensive hardware, the warranty is a good idea.. which will pop your costs up that little bit further.
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We have not been able to run the Aurora toolset on our new Vista laptop, either, but we also haven't tried very hard. I have heard that Dell is going to support XP for at least another six months, I assume other OEM's will as well. I don't dislike Vista, but have to say it seems like a lot of glitz and glitter without much real improvement in performance at this point.
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Nice pick Chongo but go with the service plan as well. That system will rock by the way. And on the virus/hack/spyware protection issue sounds like DMOE has some good suggestions. Just dont run without protection.
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Clamwin (http://www.clamwin.com/) is a good idea.. it's effective, and fairly light-weight.
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only problem trace is those dells run vista
and vista will be terrible for another 9 months easy
Most of the Dell systems allow you to pick your OS between Vista and XP right now. It's just one of the options you have to select. They will default to Vista but you can customize the system by picking XP to be installed instead.
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For anti-virus I would suggest AVG or Avira Antivir combined with some free anti-spyware program, not quite sure what's the best anti-spyware.
Personally I prefer Avira Antivir. Runs very light.
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This (http://www.eset.com/) is a very good AV package. For spyware stuff I use spybot and adaware in concert with the spybot tea-timer. If you're looking for something free Avast makes a good AV scanner.
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Ok, computer is bought.
Now...
Monitor Suggestions!
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which one did you pick
and i like a 19' flat
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Alrighty, I'm pretty much done in the selection process.
Thanks for your help everyone.