The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nagash von Ritter on November 23, 2007, 04:04:28 PM
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Just wondering, does the palemaster recieve 1 spell/2 levels or so like in stock NWN?
I couldn't see whether it did/didn't in the LORE clearly enough to be sure myself.
Thx,
Ritter
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Umm...I'm pretty sure they get a access to new spells every second level. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.
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I fairly sure* it's extra spells every two levels (but at odd PM levels - 1, 3, 5, etc).
[size=-3]*I qualify this guess with an admission that I am often wrong.[/size]
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It works like in NWN, yes. It's unaltered to my knowledge.
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I fairly sure* it's extra spells every two levels (but at odd PM levels - 1, 3, 5, etc).
[size=-3]*I qualify this guess with an admission that I am often wrong.[/size]
Just in case, if I go PM and it doesn't work, can I get the level taken back? After CDQ's and so forth?
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It's possible to get things "taken back," though it's an arduous process on both your end and the Team's. Moreover, the CDQ(s) you'll be doing to become a palemaster are part of your character's story. If you do all that, then decide the mechanical benefits of palemaster aren't up to par, it's like you just tossed out that part of your character's life, that part of his/her story. Not to mention the hours wasted on something you decide not to pursue because it didn't give you the mechanical benefit you were after. Still, it's good you ask now, so you can be sure that it's the route you want to take.
In general, if you're taking the class more for the mechanical (out-of-character) benefits than for the character/social/political (in-character) benefits, then I'd suggest reconsidering taking the class at all. Obviously, we take classes for their mechanical benefits; it's just that the mechanical benefit of the class should be subject to character and story development.
Also, I've updated the [LORE]Pale Master[/LORE] page to reflect the questions you brought up.
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It's possible to get things "taken back," though it's an arduous process on both your end and the Team's. Moreover, the CDQ(s) you'll be doing to become a palemaster are part of your character's story. If you do all that, then decide the mechanical benefits of palemaster aren't up to par, it's like you just tossed out that part of your character's life, that part of his/her story. Not to mention the hours wasted on something you decide not to pursue because it didn't give you the mechanical benefit you were after. Still, it's good you ask now, so you can be sure that it's the route you want to take.
In general, if you're taking the class more for the mechanical (out-of-character) benefits than for the character/social/political (in-character) benefits, then I'd suggest reconsidering taking the class at all. Obviously, we take classes for their mechanical benefits; it's just that the mechanical benefit of the class should be subject to character and story development.
Also, I've updated the [LORE]Pale Master[/LORE] page to reflect the questions you brought up.
If you take a look at my character story it's very integral to his development and belief system. I just don't want to be the character losing all 10 soul fragments and be permanently dead....To me the RP is the most important, that and I don't see any PM on the server :D lol jk. To me the Palemaster is already a power hit, which I was fine with but no spells at all makes it very underpowered I think.
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We did have a Palemaster on the server who retired the character for his own reasons... I think the character was at retirement a total of level 20ish and had a pretty deep and rich persona. I know one of my characters cursed the ground he walked on and she pretty much likes every one.
If you're worried about the mechanics, then do a test build in a NWN leveling module, the Vault has a few to chose from. Re-builds are rare and must have a significant role play reason to be done.
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Well, there are atleast two PMs that I know of...
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Well, there are atleast two PMs that I know of...
What level(s) were they?
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Er... I think ten or a little bit higher, with only one or two levels in PM though
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We did have a Palemaster on the server who retired the character for his own reasons... I think the character was at retirement a total of level 20ish and had a pretty deep and rich persona. I know one of my characters cursed the ground he walked on and she pretty much likes every one.
If you're worried about the mechanics, then do a test build in a NWN leveling module, the Vault has a few to chose from. Re-builds are rare and must have a significant role play reason to be done.
Er..you wouldn't be talking about my old char Ramanon Vensk? God I miss him. And yes, he was lvl 20 with a break up of 7 PM/ 13 Wiz from memory.
As MYC stated, the PM class is heavily theme based. It is a painful class to be as even at level 20 I was really only a 13th level wizard with all the durations and powers of a 13th lvl wizard, only a few extra high level spells. The AC benefit is handy, the extra HP's a welcomed, but the best feature is summoning the undead, even though they were weaker than a 2nd lvl summon monster. It's all about the theme.
As to the original post, you get new spell slots every odd level. These do not add to your duration, DC or penetration. You also cannot learn new spells like the wizard upon level up. These must be pruchased and scribed. Additionally you do not get wizard extra metamagic feats. You do however, get the same skill points/lvl and the same class skills as wizards.
All in all I love the Palemaster class. If my character now (just so happens to be the son of my old PM), ever made it to epic, I'd seriously think of working towards it again.
Anyway if you choose to take this class based off rich RP I'm sure you wont be dissapointed.
Best of luck.
Polak76
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As to the original post, you get new spell slots every odd level.
Whaddya know? I was right!
Someone write this down somewhere.
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Actually If you want me to be critical, you mentioned that you get new spells. THis is not entirely true. You only get new spell slots, as if going up a level in your wizard class.
So only half marks for you Pseudo.
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Baby steps.
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The updated LORE page now explains how the palemaster receives spell slots (at least, I hope the explanation makes sense; it did to me).
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The description is contradicting itself a little...
Every 2 levels, the pale master gains additional spell slots per day, as if she had leveled in her previous spell caster class. This gain only applies to spells per day - not caster level - and it does not grant additional spell slots past the usual maximum at level 20.
And...
Warning: the pale master's caster level only increases by 1 every 2 levels, so a level 10 wizard/ level 30 pale master would have caster level 25 (10 + 30/2), compared to caster level 40 for a level 40 wizard. This is sometimes a considerable disadvantage.
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Your caster level increases, but you don't gain the new spell/higher level spell benefit of increasing in caster level. You do, however, gain the benefit of spell slots, and caster level as it is concerned with beating SR. Only, you gain these benefits slower than a pure caster.
Anyhow, I'll change the text between the dashes to read, "- not to learning new or higher level spells -"
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It depends what level you are at.....
A level 10 pm/ 20 wizard is superior to a level 30 wizard because level based bonus's generally end as of level 20, with the exception of a few (horrid wilting), so as a result it really is beneficial, but only in the long term, according to my opinion.
So if I'm right, the palemaster continues to gain points towards efective caster level (SR) but loses the additional damage. But, this means that a level 20 wizard/10pm will end up with the maximum anyways, not to mention the whole slew of abilities and immunities the class gets, I think it's an excellent roleplaying class.
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You're right, level does have a lot to do with it, and what level you take which class. Some things translate across the epic threshold, but other things, like [LORE]BAB[/LORE] (base attack bonus) do not.
As far as [LORE]caster level[/LORE] is concerned, a 20 wiz/ 10 pale master is equal to a 25th level caster. So, yes, spell duration and damage dice will be fine, though a pure wizard will have a slightly longer spell duration, as the pure wizard will have the 30th level caster status. This also means that the pure wizard has a better chance at punching through [LORE]SR[/LORE].
The only other major mechanical difference to note depends entirely on when you take the PM levels. If you take them before level 20, then your PC will gain the benefit of the better BAB Pale Master has to offer. If you take it after 20th, however, you won't gain that benefit, as all characters get the same BAB after 20th level.
The wizard would get a few more bonus feats as well, which could ostensibly be used for more epic spells. Really, I wouldn't say that one is more powerful than the other, just that their powers are spread differently. The fact is, all 30th level characters are going to be powerful, especially thanks to magic.
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You're right, level does have a lot to do with it, and what level you take which class. Some things translate across the epic threshold, but other things, like [LORE]BAB[/LORE] (base attack bonus) do not.
As far as [LORE]caster level[/LORE] is concerned, a 20 wiz/ 10 pale master is equal to a 25th level caster. So, yes, spell duration and damage dice will be fine, though a pure wizard will have a slightly longer spell duration, as the pure wizard will have the 30th level caster status. This also means that the pure wizard has a better chance at punching through [LORE]SR[/LORE].
The only other major mechanical difference to note depends entirely on when you take the PM levels. If you take them before level 20, then your PC will gain the benefit of the better BAB Pale Master has to offer. If you take it after 20th, however, you won't gain that benefit, as all characters get the same BAB after 20th level.
The wizard would get a few more bonus feats as well, which could ostensibly be used for more epic spells. Really, I wouldn't say that one is more powerful than the other, just that their powers are spread differently. The fact is, all 30th level characters are going to be powerful, especially thanks to magic.
Speaking from experience this is spot on....accept for this part:
The only other major mechanical difference to note depends entirely on when you take the PM levels. If you take them before level 20, then your PC will gain the benefit of the better BAB Pale Master has to offer. If you take it after 20th, however, you won't gain that benefit, as all characters get the same BAB after 20th level.
To my recollection I did not receive any benefit from an improved BAB than the standard Wizard.
Polak76
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Eeek, you're right. I lied. I thought that Pale Masters had a cleric's BAB. My bad. Had to check my own BAB link to LORE, heh.
In that case I'm not sure it matters when you take Palemaster, before or after 20th, as it pertains to the 30th level power equivalencies.
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Eeek, you're right. I lied. I thought that Pale Masters had a cleric's BAB. My bad. Had to check my own BAB link to LORE, heh.
In that case I'm not sure it matters when you take Palemaster, before or after 20th, as it pertains to the 30th level power equivalencies.
I always wished they got the middle BAB.
Anyway it certainly doesn't matter which order you take PM levels with regards to getting any more than normal benfits.
Cheers,
Polak
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The only thing one should keep in mind is that it would be wise to take every fifth level as a wizzard to get the wizzard bonus feat. For everything else I don't think there is any importqance of the order.
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You actually have to have the [LORE]wizard[/LORE] levels to get the bonus feats. That is, you can't just take wizard at your 5th character level and get a bonus feat. You actually have to take five, ten, fifteen, etc. levels of wizard to catch the bonus feats wizard's get. Also, those bonus feats only give you access to specific feat options (metamagic, combat casting, etc.), so you can't take power attack with the [LORE]wizard bonus feats[/LORE].
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You actually have to have the [LORE]wizard[/LORE] levels to get the bonus feats. That is, you can't just take wizard at your 5th character level and get a bonus feat. You actually have to take five, ten, fifteen, etc. levels of wizard to catch the bonus feats wizard's get. Also, those bonus feats only give you access to specific feat options (metamagic, combat casting, etc.), so you can't take power attack with the [LORE]wizard bonus feats[/LORE].
That is exactly what I tried to point out in a hurry ;)