The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => Ask A Gamemaster => Topic started by: jan on May 26, 2008, 08:25:43 AM
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I haven't been using Ki attack in a while but since every one keeps telling people that it is one of the " usable" feats for WM characters , i tried it again .
My question is : is Ki damage modified ?
Asking because every time i have hit a target with it ( out off the 90 times i used it ) the damage i do is no higher then my normal attack damage , not with a normal hit nor with a critical hit .
Barion has a base strength off 24 and with items he has 35 .
He has 18 Ki attacks / day .
He has " critical Ki " which is an automatic feat .
He is an 18th lvl WM / 10th lvl Fighter .
His critical damage on dark elves in The Rift is about 74 with AND without Ki .
His critical damage with "improved power attack " is higher then that .
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From Ki Damage (http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Ki_Damage):
- Using Ki Damage does not guarantee a hit. This has some strategic consequences.
- It is usually best to activate this feat for the first attack of a round (or any attack that is made at full base attack bonus).
- It may be inefficient to activate this feat against a target that has high armor class or concealment.
- This feat is enhanced by the improved critical, Increased Multiplier, and Ki Critical feats, since Ki Damage will maximize each damage roll in the case of a critical hit. This benefit becomes more pronounced as the critical multiplier increases.
- Only the base weapon damage is maximized by this feat. If the weapon deals additional variable damage, it is possible that a Ki Damage hit will do less than the maximum possible total damage. A Ki Damage hit will still do more total damage on average than other hits.
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Hope this helps.
Regards,
Script Wrecked.
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No, Ki strike damage is not modified.
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Is it bugged then ?
As i told before , the normal damage i do without it is the same or even higher then with it .
Looking at the quote from Script it should do more , or am i misreading it any way ?
" A Ki damage hit will still do more total damage on average then other hits "
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On improved powerattack you get +10 damage and with your crit multiplier that becomes +30 which will quickly get above your ki damage because you get the weapon damage, str bonus plus enchantment on top of that times three.
Ki damage on the other hand will get you 24 damage base from your weapon plus str mods and enchantments times three.
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Is it bugged then ?
As i told before , the normal damage i do without it is the same or even higher then with it .
Looking at the quote from Script it should do more , or am i misreading it any way ?
" A Ki damage hit will still do more total damage on average then other hits "
It's a two edged sword. It only maximizes the weapons base damage, thus if the weapon isn't highly enchanted with different elemental or similar damage enchantments (which do not get calculated in Ki), it is more likely to do more damage than your average attack (in which the damage ranges vary by a large margin).
So in a sense you misread it yes, but it's a complicated statement.
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ermmm...could anybody tell me then WHY people keep telling that this is one off the best feats a WM has ?
If it doesn't give more damage on a normal attack ....and if i calculate right ...LESS damage on a critical hit ...then what is the whole point off this feat ?
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It is one of the best feats since it essentially guarantees more than average damage on a hit. It's effectiveness is, however, strongly dependant on the magic level of the world and level of character. It's heavily subjective.
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I think they're probably referring to ki critical, not ki damage. The additional threat range gained with ki critical is one of the top ten most powerful class feats in the game, if not the top 5. Off the top of my head I'd put defensive awareness at level 5 for the DD along the the level 10 palemaster immunities ahead of this... but it's right up there that's for sure. The fact that this feat can take a scimitar down to 11-20 along with imp crit and keen makes it pretty wild.
But yeah, ki damage... with my WM's I've never really bothered to even quickslot it.
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So basically all that makes a WM different from a normal fighter is " Ki critical " ( +2 on critical range ) and him getting +1 on attack rolls every 3 lvl's after reaching lvl 13 ?
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So basically all that makes a WM different from a normal fighter is " Ki critical " ( +2 on critical range ) and him getting +1 on attack rolls every 3 lvl's after reaching lvl 13 ?
That's a hefty all, since we can't forget [LORE]Increased Multiplier[/LORE] as well. To be honest, what more is there to expect, these two feats make the prestige more than capable of standing its ground.
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When you can do over 100 damage with a Greatsword 3 outta four attacks (if your lucky), I don't complain that one of my feats are useless.
And I'm just curious, but what does Barion use that only gives him 74 Crits against Dark Elves o.O?
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When you can do over 100 damage with a Greatsword 3 outta four attacks (if your lucky), I don't complain that one of my feats are useless.
And I'm just curious, but what does Barion use that only gives him 74 Crits against Dark Elves o.O?
I'm taking a guess here, but I think Barion uses a longsword. Hence he does less base damage and only recieves ordinary (1.0x) extra damage from the Strength modifier, unlike the one and a half modifier Shiff gets (1.5x). This already makes a pretty big difference with critical hits.
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I guess you trade damage for protection with one handed weapons. fair trade, but different tactics I guess.
I dont use Ki Damage either. my average seems to be 40-70 without a crit (might include Magic enchantments) but Ki only seems to generate 35 -45 Damage
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I guess you trade damage for protection with one handed weapons. fair trade, but different tactics I guess.
I dont use Ki Damage either. my average seems to be 40-70 without a crit (might include Magic enchantments) but Ki only seems to generate 35 -45 Damage
That's how it works, yes. AC for damage.
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When you can do over 100 damage with a Greatsword 3 outta four attacks (if your lucky), I don't complain that one of my feats are useless.
And I'm just curious, but what does Barion use that only gives him 74 Crits against Dark Elves o.O?
The original thought was to make him dual-wielding long-swords .
But then the strength needed to get devastating critical was raised to 28 which meant that i didn't have enough feats to reach that AND make him dual-wield with-out penalties .
So i went for devastating crits , but since that now has str 30 needed and i need to reach lvl 41 or so to get to that , the whole concept off the character has gone down the drain .
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Overwhelming Crit is nice too ;) Just not as worth it
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I spent too much points and feats on strength to give up ;)
So I'll simply keep him on the path he was on and hope for the best .
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who knows, maybe you'll get a +1 or +2 to strength as a Quest reward some day :P
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*grins*
Who knows , maybe other discussions that seem to indicate that saving throws are high enough will open up ways to lower the strength needed and devastating critical comes back into reach ;)
I have some thoughts about that and in time i'll probably share them with you all ......*shifty look around and a quick run to get into hiding * :D
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Always the one to voice his opinion ;) Just dont get in trouble
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Ki damage is straight max damage without the +5 or +10 from PA/IPA.
So, for a weaponmaster weilding a copper longsword with a rod-4 with a 30 strength who has epic weapon specialization (+6) the normal damage would be...
minimum damage on non-critical hit:
1d6 + 10 (str mod) + 6 (EWS) + 1d8 (rod 4) = 18
maximum damage on non-critical hit:
6 + 10 + 6 + 8 = 30
minimum damage on critical hit:
= 18 x 3 = 56
maximum damage on critical hit:
= 30 x 3 = 90
Using Ki-Damage you are guaranteed 30 or 90 points of damage depending on whether you rolled a crit (which as a LS WM > level 7, you have a critical range of 15-20 which isn't too shabby). Instead of having a variance of damage between 18-30 or 56-90.
Using Power Attack (PA)... that brings your damage range to:
1d6 + 10 + 6 + 1d8 + 5 = 23 (min) -- (69 crit)
6 + 10 + 6 + 8 + 5 = 35 (max) -- (105 crit)
Using Improved Power Attack (IPA)
1d6 + 10 + 6 + 1d8 + 10 = 28 (min) -- (84 crit)
6 + 10 + 6 + 8 + 10 = 40 (max) -- (120 crit)
In summary, Ki-Damage does not outweigh the benefits of using IPA, but a significant percentage of the time it does outweigh the benefits of using standard PA. And since you get Ki Damage 1x/day per WM level it can add up over time.
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epic weapon specialisation gives + 4 ;)
For the rest the calculations are correct * gives a A- for calculations *;)
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Ah, yes it does give +4... but it should stack with regular weapon specialization (+2), which you should have as well -- giving you the +6 total. ;)
Also what is not factored into the calculations above is your increased miss percentage of -5 AB for PA and -10 AB for IPA, whereas Ki Damage gives you your full AB on an attempt. =)