The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => Ask A Gamemaster => Topic started by: zenvidar on June 21, 2008, 06:23:17 PM
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I was thinking about creating a character which held a great interest in arcane magic and later became very involved with nature. The character would have a love for animals and the environment from the start, possibly being a Katian and treating their familiar as a best friend instead of a tool for combat.
This character would like to further their connection with nature and become a druid and eventually a shifter, taking great interest in the animals of layonara, surrounding themselves with them and taking their shapes as his own.
I know the difficulties of becoming a druid. My first character back in 2006 wsa originally to be a druid/ranger and was accepted as so before I decided to start as a ranger. (which I regretted)
So, I was wondering about the use of familiars and animal companions at the same time for a multiclass sorceror/druid. I have not seen any (that I know of) in the game yet, so I did not have the opportunity to ask. It would be beneficial to how I would want to roleplay the character, often travelling with two separate core animals, each with a different personality.
Can summoned familiars and animal companions be used at the same time?
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I'd assume "no," since I believe the game considers both to be summoned creatures.
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...possibly being a Katian and treating their familiar as a best friend instead of a tool for combat.
heh...this is how familiars and animal companions should be treated.
As for having both at the same time, I think NWN limits you to having only one present at a time. They are treated as summons, even if they aren't summons at all.
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I know that you can have, at the least, one henchman, one companion/familiar, and one summon. Dunno if you can have a companion and a familiar at the same time, though it bears playtesting in Single Player.
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You can actually have your animal companion and familiar with you at the same time. Tested it ingame myself.
In actual fact you can have both and a spell summoned animal as well and a dominated one as well. Would be kinda neat to run around with four animals :)
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You can actually have your animal companion and familiar with you at the same time. Tested it ingame myself.
In actual fact you can have both and a spell summoned animal as well and a dominated one as well. Would be kinda neat to run around with four animals :)
This was actually my intention, to have a band of animals at least some of the time. I want animals to be a big part of that character as I mentioned above. A sorcerer who enjoyed nature from the start, but due to time with the familiar, animal summons and other players really increased that desire. It would be fun to run with say a bear, panther, wolf and falcon while shapeshifted as another animal.
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A 5 Sorc/5 Druid with the Pixie and Bear companions, respectively, pulling a Dire Wolf as a summon... Buff 'em up, let 'em roll.
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A 5 Sorc/5 Druid with the Pixie and Bear companions, respectively, pulling a Dire Wolf as a summon... Buff 'em up, let 'em roll.
*points to the comment about not using them as a tool for combat.* ;)
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*Points to the still-awesome nature of the HORDE OF SUMMONS for just one player.*
And think what three of these things could do! Nine summons, two crossbowmen. xD
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I'm actually toying with the idea of using a familiar panther and an animal companion panther. That might be cool to have two panthers following me around. I'm not sure yet, but it would be really fun. The animal companion starts at 2d1 sneak attack instead of 1d1 like the other panther, so the two could become a huge sneak attack force, unless I wanted a nice big bear to trod around and take the brunt of damage.
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*Points to the still-awesome nature of the HORDE OF SUMMONS for just one player.*
And think what three of these things could do! Nine summons, two crossbowmen. xD
It would be a really cool experience to have a character that walks around with four animal friends.
Obviously the summoned ones will drop out a bit, and occasionally the charmed ones will too, but a good animal empathy could keep them from becoming hostile and another summon could be cast.
Walking around alone wouldn't be as lonely and my character would have fun talking to the animals and petting them. Talking with them once he's both sorc and druid.
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*Points to the still-awesome nature of the HORDE OF SUMMONS for just one player.*
And think what three of these things could do! Nine summons, two crossbowmen. xD
*slaps forehead*
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still think it would be fun just to run around and talk with em. All the time when you're not in battle, hanging out with your pack.
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Wait, I know a druid cannot multi-class freely with anything except a shifter, but at level 5 could I go from sorcerer right to druid?
I don't need a CDQ going sorcerer to druid, like I would if I tried rogue going monk for example?
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You would have to have the combination approved either at submission or do a resubmission after you've gained a few levels. The Character Approvers will give you guidelines on what they'd like to see.
We did have a Wizard -> Druid for a long time, so the combination is certainly possible.
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[strike]Not correct, actually. You'll need a very good reason for the class change, either in or out of Druid - it's a pretty heavy class, really. My jests aside, the 5 Sorc/5 Druid would be... A very tricky thing to actually manufacture reasoning for.
Multi-classing isn't exactly free, ever. I mean, you don't always need a CDQ, (for most classes,) but you still need a fairly compelling reason - either in the submission, or the CDT (after approval as a single class).
To boil it down:
You could start as a Sorcerer, and slowly find your connection to Nature... And, whenver you chose, (possibly) progress to Druid with a successful CDQ. Then, you'd be stuck taking Druid levels, and be subject to all class restrictions.
Or, you could start as a Druid, and, when you chose (possibly) breaking from your class to be a Sorcerer, via CDQ... But that would entail the loss of all Druidic abilities other than Auto-calm, and you wouldn't be able to return to the Druidic path, excepting MAYBE through another CDQ.[/strike]
Edit: Wait, what? Huh. I was under the impression that it was impossible to have a Druid multiclassing with anything, without CDQs and such between. Well. You learn something every day. :)
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Joining the path of Druids is a lot easier than leaving it, since it's not just a "job" but a way of life.
But again, whether the combination is approved or not is going to depend on how the bio is written and what the Character Approvers say about it. It's far, far easier to multi-class into a Druid, but once a druid, free multi-classing is not permitted except with the Shifter PrC, meaning once a character takes levels as a Druid, he/she cannot take levels in any other class (except Shifter) without a CDQ, and that involves leaving the Druidic path, etc.
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Ohhhh, so this was NOT a Wizard/Druid dual-class?
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I'm not sure what you mean.
This character is Brisbane, by the way.
She started out with 5 levels of Wizard and switched to all Druid through to Epic levels. Part of her ECDQ/WLDQ outcome would have permitted her to go back to taking Wizard levels again, though she never exercised that option.
Her class combination was approved at submission time and it was stipulated then that she had to take the wizard levels first.
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Yeah, I'd like to start out as a sorceror and maybe at around 5 levels or so I would begin time as a druid. I don't think it will be too hard to have a good reasoning as stephen suggested. Every character needs reasoning for their choices to pursue different talents.
The choice is going to affect a character raised by naturalists, katians. One who was amazed by magicians as a child and wanted to harness magic. Although, nature was important to his parents and he had owned pets as a child that he really loved, his family sometimes taking in injured wild animals for brief periods. He showed a knack for taking care of sick animals, who seemed to respond well to his gentle and patient nature. When he starts off in layonara, he will be able to summon a familiar. Because of that ability, his backstory will already include that familiar for a brief time. He was excited when he could use magic to summon a specific animal to him, and would develop a close bond with it. Soon, due to his background and further exposure to his companion, his love for animals and nature would grow and he would desire to become much closer to nature, respecting the druids and their amazing connection with nature. At this point, he would decide to "leave magic tricks to the magicians" and pursue his new life of animal companions and a greater spiritual bond with nature as part of the druid order.
I usually like to flesh out the character a little bit and get a few things together before I submit it. I'm pretty close, but his parents and social background and history need some more thought. He has a name so far, an age, a birthplace in mind and a race. So I'm almost there. I don't want to do a skimpy job, but I'm relieved that the process will likely not run as much difficulty as the monk submission for Vanther Koehmus. It's been two years since Trathar Taliesin was accepted, but I think this new character will be the kind of person I wanted Trathar to be and much more.
If you have any tips before I'm fully prepared for my submission on how you think it is so far Dorg, please let me know what you think.
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I generally refrain from giving character biography advice, so no offense, but I'm going to do the same thing for you. :)
In general, though, if your character is thought-out and his classes are well-justified and fit with whatever lore and requirements we may attach, then it'll probably be fine. As I said, the Character Approvers will help you through anything that may need adjusting.
So write something up, submit it and ride the wave.
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Dorg: Ohhhh. I get it, now. What I meant by "dual-class" was 1 Wiz, 1 Druid, 1 Wiz, 1 Druid, etc. Even levels, taken simultaneously - which, as I understand, is not possible, except for Bris (who has the option as part of an ECDQ reward). Turns out I'd been right in the beginning, though it's hard to tell it from my akward wording. xD Or mostly, anyhow. Thank you very much for the clarification. :)
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As far as how the game mechanics are for the added summons, I remember Skabot on another server has a character "Mort Tallytee" who was some strange death domain cleric/wizard. He could summon his familiar, an undead skeleton and his shadow companion all at once, which made for an interesting swarm. I'm pretty sure that a Druid/wizard could have an animal companion and a familiar and their choice of either a druid or wizard standard summons, but not both. The familiar/companion/shadow creating feats appear to operate independantly of eachother, all three of them growing in power based on the character's mix of levels. The casted spell summons are unfortunately limited to 1 at a time regardless of type. So you can never have a mithral golem summon creature 9 plus an animate dead skeleton or a helmed horror or any combo like that.
I miss Mort, he was the quintessential "true necromancer". He'd have 2 undead that could be healed by negative energy ray out, plus some kind of hellhound summons all at once. The downside was of course that other than the base skeleton which has a cap, the other two were a bit stunted by virtue of his cross-class. Having a character at 10th level with 5th level summons looks nice, but they die pretty easily.
One of my biggest beefs with NWN's engine is how they manage summons. I hate how they hardcode the "only one summons at a time" template, especially regarding undead, which are created from dead corpses and animated, not pulled out of thin air in PnP. Thanks to Bioware, you never can have that necromancer with an army of skeletons, only the villains can. It's kind of silly to see somebody like epic Rufus limited to a single skeleton and a fimiliar, while Joe the 12th level necromancer villain plagues the land with his army of 500 skeletons and 200 zombies. Bioware totally butchered one of my favorite PnP spells of all time... Elemental Swarm! Now it's more like, elemental single-file DMV line.
As for the hard limit of paladins, druids and monks from crossclassing, I've never been a fan of that, and eagerly look forward to the new skillbased system of the MMORPG which will negate all of that precident. If being a druid is a way of life rather than a skillset or a job, then there is no difference in my mind of a pure druid who obeys the codes and restrictions, or a fighter/druid who does the same, yet simply knows how to fight a little better with some added feats. A barbarian/druid would be a shoe-in! Turn into a feral animal and rage. A rogue/druid seems like a natural progression to me for many characters for whom the focus is stealth and blending into the woods. I used to have a character on another server called "Master of Squirrels" who was a rogue/druid, and the combo made him FAR more squirrely than a meager full druid who could not hide well and was too quick to dodge a fireball. A NG elven bard/druid could definitely work, I imagine the Disney'esque fair maiden of the woods, singing with the birds not breaking any codes or oaths or immersion. Thanks to the hardline multiclass rule, it's exceedingly difficult to create VERY typical and logical combinations, like a monk who studied animal fighting styles for inspiration, a paladin that focused more on prayer and faith, a wujen style mystic monk who shot fireballs from his fists, etc. What's even stranger is how Lucinda's Paladin order seems to allow paladin/wizards to crossclass freely, yet a paladin/sorceror is an anomaly. I would think if anything the paladin/sorceror would be MORE logical... somebody has faith in lucinda because she touched him with magic, blessed by grace rather than well studied, that sort of thing. Which again is why I'm so eager to see the next incarnation of Layo, when character concepts are no longer meta-policed by Bioware's hard class limitations. In terms of what it means to be a druid, I think lifestyle and conviction far outweigh adherance to a vanilla skillset.
If Grovel could be a druid/rogue sometime before epic levels without having to create a river of paperwork and cdq requirements, he'd go for that, definitely. His personality definitely supports the sneaking, bluffing and the conniving character qualities of a rogue, and I fail to see how the great oak is going to smite him OOCly for daring to hmmm, use foliage as cover. Maybe the RP expectation is for him to chain himself to the tree and protect it from axes with his tiny NE body? The only thing keeping him from doing that currently is a booming OOC voice from the heavens that would scream "Naughty Grovel! you have learned how to sneak in the woods, and now I take your spells!" *ZAP!* "Grovel is sorry! He only wanted to disarm the bear traps! forgive me big tree!" heheheh.
I wish for druids the restriction of going back and forth between multiclasses without needing to do a CDQ just to learn spells again should be laxed a bit for at least the racial Favored Classes. If a halfling or goblin druid wants to be sneaky, that's in his nature, same with orc and giantkin barbarian druids, or elven wizard druids, dwarven druid fighters, etc. For the Great Oak to disallow this by some mystical mechanism shows that he denies them their own Nature. The philosophical implications behind that are astounding. There should still be CDT support and maybe even a CDQ for taking the secondary class of course, and they should be expected to maintain their oaths and armor restrictions, but there shouldn't be such a steep relearning penalty for doing that which comes natural to a druid.
And an aside note: Vorax should be nicer to his Paladin/Fighters too. Many of them must grumble about the oath to never specialize in the waraxe without being cast out of the order! And I doubt he or Toran would be anything but pleased if a Dwarven Defender joined the ranks. Vorax might even do a little happy dance and spill some ale if he saw one praying! :D :D :D
Soon though, all of these Bioware restrictions that don't make sense will be abated by the open skill system. And then it will be we who do the happy dance! Eagerly anticipating any Dev Log reports in that department.
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Just get a bunch of goblins. Same thing.
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Now, an OOC NWN mechanic which may cause some IC struggles is the familiar not getting stronger by character level, but only ny sorcerer level.
If I did begin a change from sorcerer to druid and stayed druid/shifter until the end, he would have a weak familiar and would suffer a lot of heartbreak and anxiety bringing the familiar into battle, always worrying that it might get hurt.
I'm now toying with a slightly altered story favoring a storytelling magician with bardic qualities whom the boy really is impressed by His background still includes a real knack with taking care of injured wild animals. He would imagine using simple magic and inspirational charisma to inspire the animals to heal faster and continue their lives. This would lead him to become a bard. His nature-singing would serve him well until he realized the amazing connection with nature that druids have (just as the sorcerer version of him did) and want to become much closer as well.
The story is ultimately the same, just with a slightly different angle on this version. He would probably remain a little more practical as a character in-game and would be able to use his bardic knowledge and druidic intuition to keep his companion safe, instead of worrying so much about a familar's well being as the other character would. I've also played NWN since 2002, but all this time I've never really played a bard. Sorcerers were my original craze when I started NWN, so for that reason as well I might want to experience a little bardic nature for a bit before he realizes the druidic life suits him.
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Oh, do bard songs apply to the bard that cast them? Does that bard enjoy the benefits, or only their allies?
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Indeed.