The World of Layonara
The Layonara Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Eight-Bit on September 05, 2008, 10:06:52 PM
-
There are two separate occasions of people being mugged happened outside of my building. Both times the tenants told me two people were carrying bricks, of which there is a pile nearby due to recent construction.
What would you do if two people confronted you with bricks and told you to give up what you had on you?
My personal decision is to do what I can to fight them. I carry a knife with me to and from work, just because I live in a shady neighborhood. So the kabar knife I'm carrying is always with me on my trip upstairs.
It's my personal belief that the scum feeding on the working man/woman don't deserve what they think they can muscle out of me. My girlfriend who just ran to bed in rage thinks otherwise. Unless there was a gun to my head I would put up the fight of my life.
I want to know what you people think. I know my personal beliefs aren't intelligent, nor are they what the average person would do, but I won't alter my beliefs because someone disagrees with me.
If you were outnumbered, what would you do? They've all ready hospitalized one person. I have martial arts experience, am very physically fit because of my line of work, and carry a big knife with me, so factor that into my choice. I want to know what you would personally do.
-
My thinking: You can roll a 1. You only have one SS left.
-
My thinking: You can roll a 1. You only have one SS left.
Very true and I support what you say 100%. You're raising the same point my angry girlfriend raised.
-
Well the best you could hope for is you put up a fight and they run off or get they beaten badly and possibly end up incarcerated. Then they get paroled/come back in six months.
Then one night they see you kiss your girlfriend outside your building.
Then one night they see her alone...
The immediate battle isn't all you need to be concerned about, are you prepared for war against this sort of scum if you put up a fight?
-
We all have a right to defend ourselves and to meet an attack with equal force. But as Orth said you are very close to home at need to take the repercussions of that into account. It is best to be ready, alert, and aware. The predators will shy from you then. But if forced to protect yourself then do it with full conviction. Also if you see your fellow man in trouble then come to their aid.
-
My opinion is in line with Eight-Bit's less-than-popular one. A thug who loses his ability to walk, speak, or breathe is not a thug who will bother you again.
My input is this: You have your knife, and your body. You know how to use both. If necessary, do so, and do so effectively.
I've run into too many folk who either thought they could take advantage of me, or DID take advantage of me, to be terribly lenient. Better to show them you're not going to let them walk all over you than to let them leech from you and hang around.
-
While I'm no fan of carrying weapon of any sort I guess I can see your reasons for doing so. In addition to what Orth, Jrizz, Pseudonym and others have answered I would ask you the following question though: "Are you certain you could live with yourself if you by accident killed one of these 'thugs' in a fight?"
Sure they are bad people. But they're probably sons and brothers, too - and perhaps even fathers. Soldiers return from wars and carry burdens that mark them for the remainder of their lives - and they don't fight in their neighbourhood, nor people they can put their names on - they fight the 'enemy' (there is a difference). Still, many cannot live with what they've done, seen or both.
-
Having to interject myself in the middle of a brawl and having seriously injured someone, I can assure you that it is never fun nor does it ever leave your mind.
I have martial arts training too, but the fact that they chose to do things that are morally objectionable does not warrant you the right to be the judge on their life and the life of the people that surrounds them, like their family.
Your own action, will, if you do them, put the risk of placing more people in the position of being hurt than just those you tried to fight off.
I would not, again, risk placing the families of some jerk into the pain of having to care for someone for the rest of their lives, or mourn someone, for their senseless action.
We have a right to defend ourselves, but where does that right ends when it comes to taking the right of someone else to live? Or for that matter, how far can we impose our own rights onto the lives of those that surrounds the person you are defending yourself against?
-
I'm going to chime in here... but Im completely on both sides.
One thing that comes to mind is a little saying from Manic Street Preacher's I've used for years.... "If you tolerate this, then your children will be next."
It would be worth them doing it, simply for the chance to kick their heads in and hopefully knock some sense in there too.
However of course, a man who is willing to threaten passerby's with brick for money... obviously has the will to do it.
Always be wary of those who have the will to do what you yourself wouldn't.
You never know what else they'd be capable of.... and if they ever found out where you live... well, say no more.
As Orth put it above.... losing yourself and getting beat up is one thing, but there are always other they can hurt to get to you. That usually ends up hurting you "much" more.
-
One thing that comes to mind is a little saying from Manic Street Preacher's I've used for years.... "If you tolerate this, then your children will be next."
There is a very, very good reason my eldest is studying Karate and my youngest will be given the opportunity to when he is 5 next year....
Among the benefits of physical fitness, discipline, respect and other such things is the fact she's getting capable of handing out a pretty impressive butt kicking to people coming at her.
Even if she quits in a year or two the muscle memory and instinctive reaction will still be there.
I can't be there to protect them 24/7...As much as I want to be but I can arm them to be able to take care of themselves when I'm not.
-
I learned to fight so I don't have too. I have fought on a professional level a few times, and I will be the first to walk away if given the chance. I fight to compete, not to harm. I am well off in life and if someone is so hard up they have to steal, let them have it. I believe in Karma. Not in some kind of spiritual way, but in the way that birds of a feather, flock together. They will get what they deserve in life. I can replace the money, the wallet and what ever else they take. Life is to short and precious to worry about the little things.
If the life of myself or someone I care for is in danger, or I felt for one second they planned on taking more than my personal belongings, I would kill them. End of story.
There are two separate occasions of people being mugged happened outside of my building. Both times the tenants told me two people were carrying bricks, of which there is a pile nearby due to recent construction.
What would you do if two people confronted you with bricks and told you to give up what you had on you?
My personal decision is to do what I can to fight them. I carry a knife with me to and from work, just because I live in a shady neighborhood. So the kabar knife I'm carrying is always with me on my trip upstairs.
It's my personal belief that the scum feeding on the working man/woman don't deserve what they think they can muscle out of me. My girlfriend who just ran to bed in rage thinks otherwise. Unless there was a gun to my head I would put up the fight of my life.
I want to know what you people think. I know my personal beliefs aren't intelligent, nor are they what the average person would do, but I won't alter my beliefs because someone disagrees with me.
If you were outnumbered, what would you do? They've all ready hospitalized one person. I have martial arts experience, am very physically fit because of my line of work, and carry a big knife with me, so factor that into my choice. I want to know what you would personally do.
-
With the martial arts training, depending on the type, one can manage to get in close enough to eviscerate a potential mugger, as long as the knife is of adequate length.
-
I really hope that those speaking of martial arts are not talking about their kung fu training =P.
I have about 10 years of MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) training, and if you are some black belt in tae kwan do or akido...I beg you, please give them the wallet. Then go find a gym that trains MMA. If you love the Gi, then train in Judo or Jiu Jitsu. While Jiu Jistu will do little for you in a fight with 2 people, it is the single most practical form of martial arts out there for a one on one fight.
Outside of that, boxing, Mui Thai and greco roman wrestling are the three easiest to find and best MMA forms to study along with some solid Jiu Jitsu defense training. For two guys with bricks, as described above, a solid amount of ring time and training in boxing/mui thai will carry you the furthest.
-
I love my wife and I love my kids. I don't want them to have to deal with my accidental death and everything else that comes with it. Objects can be purchased (or earned?) again and again in life--they are just objects. Life, love, and family can not, neither for the one that is harmed or dies or all of the family around that individual that is harmed or dies.
There is no decision making that needs to happen if you put it in perspective.
-
I'm with Leanthar, there's nothing I have on my person I can't live without..but there are people who can't live without me. That's your true worth, not a few dollars or a watch or what have you.
-
Situations aren't always quite as black and white as "give it to me or i kill you" though. I try never to set my mind on a stereotypical course of action for any situation, be it dangerous, social, trivial, whatever. The only thing I always do is make sure I'm thinking clearly. I never drink, never take heavy drugs, and I do my best to get the sleep I need.
If I can think clearly I have the best chance to get the most out of any situation. In a dangerous situation I would always try to take the course of action that will result in the safest possible conclusion.
I've never gotten away from the question about the meaning of different lives. Is my life worth more than anyone elses? Though I have never encountered a situation where a question like that would matter directly, it plagues me. I would imagine that the life of the person who makes life the best for the most people without worsening it for others -- not necessarily any other way than spiritual -- would be more worth than the life of the person who worsens many peoples' lives without bettering anyone elses. There is no way to know what people will do in the future, and probability can never justify a true answer to a comparison of lives.
All I can really do is maximize my own worth according to that criteria. I do my best to make life better for other people, even if it's as trivial as an hour of help in a game or a quarter for a payphone or giving my sister the last ice-cream. I'm not as good at it as I wish I was, and I feel bad after I realize my specific shortcomings.
I'm sorry if this seems like a tangent, but it's how I approach life and it's as good a contribution to this thread as I can give, I think.
-
what happened to the great NWN skill of Bluff and Persuade?
It's gotten me out of several potential scrapes with ruffians in RL, and a few months ago in a vampire LARP I used it to great effect in a situation where my death was certain if I attempted to fight.
;)
-
what happened to the great NWN skill of Bluff and Persuade?
It's gotten me out of several potential scrapes with ruffians in RL, and a few months ago in a vampire LARP I used it to great effect in a situation where my death was certain if I attempted to fight.
;)
My father taught me this: Talk your way out of a fight, walk your way out of a fight, run your way out of a fight... But if he's going to hurt you, don't let him; turn around and kill him.
Violence should never be a first option - as Leanthar has said, life is far dearer than any possessions. Cash can be replaced (eventually), credit cards canceled, license numbers changed... None of it is as important as the safety and security of you and yours.
Some punk coming upon you and waylaying you (or, hopefully, only TRYING to beat you) with a brick, however, rather bypasses the walking, talking, and running parts. Not many muggers (in my all-too-personal experience) will simply ask you for your wallet.
And yes. I do place my own health and happiness above the health and happiness of the people who try to hurt me. I place my family's well-being above the other guy's. The morality of this stance is debatable (and, I believe, the entire subject of this thread), but I am comfortable with my ideals.
I'd rather take a piece out of the other guy while he hurts me than try to give him my stuff while he hurts me. If I can beat him to the punch and KEEP him from hurting me, all the better.
Guys with bricks typically glow red.
-
Honestly, there's a lot of tough guy talk here but it seems really divorced from reality.
I live in a very sketchy (but very cool) neighborhood where crime occasionally happens. I was mugged once, a lot of my friends have too, and I can tell you most street criminals are drug addicts. They're not rational, there's no fair fight to be had, the very fact that they're threatening people with a brick of all things means they're out of their minds. No matter how much training you've had or how tough you think you are there's a good chance you will get badly hurt. They just want your money so give it to them and then immediately call the police.
And please, don't carry a knife. You're asking for trouble. If you hurt or worse, kill someone you will probably ruin your life as well as theirs and there's a good chance you'll end up in jail. Yes, even if it's in self defense. Get some pepper spray or a personal alarm, I know it's not as macho but it's a better deterrent.
-
I just want to echo what Drizzlin said. Please don't let your 2 years, 5 years, 10 years whatever martial arts training create a false sense of invulnerability. I too have trained for over a decade in various forms of karate and BJJ and in this entire time I have looked at this training as a means of creating space to get away. It especially alarms me when mothers have an impression that their daughters should have anything else in mind when in a confrontation other than getting away. Any sensei that hints their student should be looking for another outcome than this should have their coaching licence revoked.
-
A big part of my mindset comes from the fact that I'm simply too slow to get away from virtually anyone - and I've tried.
The point and idea to any sort of self-defense strategy, be it quick talking, quick running, or quick-to-the-punch is to keep the other guy from hurting you.
Do that the best way possible. Your idea of best may vary.
-
I just want to echo what Drizzlin said. Please don't let your 2 years, 5 years, 10 years whatever martial arts training create a false sense of invulnerability. I too have trained for over a decade in various forms of karate and BJJ and in this entire time I have looked at this training as a means of creating space to get away. It especially alarms me when mothers have an impression that their daughters should have anything else in mind when in a confrontation other than getting away. Any sensei that hints their student should be looking for another outcome than this should have their coaching licence revoked.
The key to what Psedo said, is creating space to get away . If you can touch me, you are too close to me.
-
Advice:
Offer the men (or women) with bricks your wallet. Then offer them dinner. Offer them a safe place to sleep. Offer them a ride to work. Offer them a job. Offer them friendship.
There's a chance they'll completely take advantage of you. A good chance. But there are better odds that the person(s) will want to know why you offer them what you do, and you can tell them, "Because I believe you can do better. Because I've been where you are. And because I could have used a little help back then."
That said, I also agree with this:
If the life of myself or someone I care for is in danger, or I felt for one second they planned on taking more than my personal belongings, I would kill them. End of story.
In other words, be an Az'attan until blood is drawn. Then be a smiting Toranite.
-
I just want to echo what Drizzlin said. Please don't let your 2 years, 5 years, 10 years whatever martial arts training create a false sense of invulnerability. I too have trained for over a decade in various forms of karate and BJJ and in this entire time I have looked at this training as a means of creating space to get away. It especially alarms me when mothers have an impression that their daughters should have anything else in mind when in a confrontation other than getting away. Any sensei that hints their student should be looking for another outcome than this should have their coaching licence revoked.
As the only mother with a daughter who commented....I assume this is aimed at me....
Yes I am happy she could give someone a butt kicking if she needed to...
Not because I think she should be giving someone a butt kicking rather than a) not getting into the situation in the first place or b) getting away as quickly as possible....
But simply because life isn't perfect or ideal and if push comes to shove one day and she can't get away for some reason...and trust me, I pray that day never comes.....she at least has a much better chance of protecting herself than someone who's not studied Karate or any other decently taught martial art....Forgive me if I find that slightly comforting.
I said she would be capable of giving someone a butt kicking if they came at her...Not that I or her sensei were actively encouraging her to do so....That was your assumption....There is a difference between being capable of doing something and actually doing it.
-
Heh, I didn't mean that to sound like a slur! Apologies if it came across that way. I have pretty strong feelings about this from personal experience when a kid from my old dojo came off second best when he intervened in a brawl. As Drizzlin stated, 99% of karate forms one might study is primarily for sporting purposes and i'd hate for anyone to think that it necessarily translates into a 'real' situation. This is, of course, without knowing the specifics of yours, or anyone else's style of martial art. Read my post as you will but it was posted with good intention (even if it didn't read that way, sorry!).
-
Why don't you try to install a hidden camera where they have been known to carry out their muggings and try to get them on tape. That way, you might get them sent to jail and that is the best long-term solution.
Otherwise, I am firmly in the "Do whatever you can to get away until you can't," camp. As every warrior knows, combat is always the last resort.
-
I'm impressed with all the Martial arts students around. I'm surprised we don't see more monks in the game...then again it might be the same reason there isn't all that many in game.
In all seriousness though, we can feel rather brave about what we would do or like to do right now, however, I guarantee that if and only if something like this happens, all this chat is meaningless when fear kicks in.
It is usually at times like this that training can overcome the fear and as Psuedo commented and 'look for a way out'.
I've been into some very ugly situations in my life and am very grateful to still be around. Most of the time I've managed to elude the situation by having my wits about me.
My advice is always keep your eyes and ears open and roll those 20's on your skill checks to avoid the situation entirely. They'll most likely pounce on the easy targets so you need to avoid being an easy target altogether.
Cheers and stay safe.
Polak