The World of Layonara
NWN Discussions and Suggestions => CNR Suggestions/Discussion => Topic started by: LordCove on May 22, 2009, 06:41:33 PM
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Not a bug... but noticed on the Gallery.
http://forums.layonara.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=133312
A +3 Hide armour...
.. with +1 Soak 5 ...
.. and a +1 to Fort.
With a level 22 req?
As stated.. the +1 soak is.. well.. useless.
In the medium- high tier loot drops.. there is a +3 Hide armour.... which has a level req of 15 or 16 I think.
I'm just wondering if... considering this is craftable only... not in the loot drops.. and needs a lot of rare silk to make... it should perhaps be upped a little.
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IT's not Hide, at least not in that picture. 1 base AC bonus and an 8 Dex bonus limit means its just padded armor.
Armor - Neverwinter Nights Wiki - NWNWiki (http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Armor)
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He`s talking of the additional +3 to ac armor that is shown just up of the +1 soak damage.
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Might add this one too:
http://forums.layonara.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=115562
Queen padded silk
The +3 soak 5 probably isn't really doing much for a level 28 character...
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By way of insight, and not really commenting on the validity of these requests and comments, it is perhaps important to understand the intent behind these armors and the other similar ones in the same line.
The silks were introduced to add some variety into tailoring, give some more viable options that didn't involve the mass slaughter of skinable animals and which filled a niche.
If you look closely, you'll see three important things:
1) These armors have only a 5% arcane spell failure chance
2) These armors have no Armor Check Penalty
3) These armors have a max DEX bonus of 8
Numbers 2 and 3 make them fitting for rogue and other DEX-based builds under some circumstances without the penalties associated with even other forms of light armor.
If you're going to compare it to Hide armor, then remember that Hide has a 20% Arcane Spell Failure, an Armor Check Penalty of -1 and a max DEX bonus of 4. Really, it's an apples-to-oranges comparison.
The presence or absence of DR is not the only thing that makes these armors useful, nor are they "useless" because the most obvious math says so. Plenty of characters at and above the requirements for these armors do not have DR at all.
Oh...and moving this to a more appropriate forum. :)
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Well, yeah. The issue is more that +x/xx DR raises the level req at a rate that is not fair when measured against x/- DR, which in my experience is most often more powerful when it's measured against the goal weapon/claw +AB or + enhancement of the CR creatures within the level req range of the armor. Woohoo for run-on sentences!
What would be immensely useful in all of this would be for someone with master tailoring experience to make a spreadsheet with all armors, their required resources, and how it actually plays out in game to get them - and then PM it to me and Dorg.
If you want change then I want some analysis!
The trouble is that I don't have much experience in tailoring, and I will promise now that I likely missed rebalance on some of the non-metal armors. Silks specifically come to mind since I didn't know their relative difficulty in attaining them. Generally when I haven't experienced something in great detail, I ask around, and if the answers that come back aren't well founded, then I don't like taking action.
And folks, there's going to be quirky stuff all over. Sometimes with review you'll find it's not actually that quirky. Sometimes you'll find with review that it's another fallen soldier to different generations of devs with varying magic level goals. So, it's important to bring up stuff you find quirky. Just don't be crushed if it ever comes back with a 'nah - fine as is'.
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If you look closely, you'll see three important things:
1) These armors have only a 5% arcane spell failure chance
2) These armors have no Armor Check Penalty
3) These armors have a max DEX bonus of 8
I think the real issue is that there are armors (including several dropped armors) that are much better that have no arcane failure and no max dex bonus - for the type of characters who would really be interested in buying something like this, #1 and #3 are liabilities, not selling points.
For a lower level character, it might make sense to sacrifice on those points (or, they might not have enough dex so that it is a sacrifice). In order for something like this to be useful, it should have some special whatevers... such as this armor: http://forums.layonara.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=120282
or it should have a lower level requirement, like this armor: http://forums.layonara.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=114252
Edit: I also forgot to mention, the recipe for queen bebilith armor only takes one bebilith padding, which doesn't follow the pattern of all the others, which take two padding.
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Alright I don't know how much it's comparable, but if I was level 22 and had the choice between such an armor and a mithril reinforced clothing (I know mithy is kinda rare these days but let me *winks). Both have lvl reqs of 22.
Clothing has a DR of 5/- to Bludgeoning, Slashing and Piercing, no AC check penalty and does not limited ones AC bonus.
Well Phyress is a dex-build so I usually run around with a dex mod of 9 with my usual gear equipped. Even if I had a mod of 'only' 8 or 7, I'd still pick the mithril clothing as it provides DR, as like all things one might face at that level have +2 weapons or better. This is just how I'd choose if I was Phyress.
I asked a caster a few days back and he'd favor mirhy clothing as well, given he ever reaches 22. The 5% difference for Spellcasting might not be that important and quite nice and have to agree with Dorg on that. Plus one has one more AC one won't lose when caught flatfooted.
But, he'd rather have the DR than one more point in AC.
Of course this all is a balancing issue as well and as I have not really any idea of such things I am going to shut up here for good ^^
I might see these things a little blunt and biased, but I wanted to give you an insight of a char who'd have the choice between such a Padded Armor and a set of Reinforced Clothing. No idea if these two types are really comparable.
p.s.: And of course it is nice that one does not necessarily have to kill animals for lighter armors. I like the idea.
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mithril reinforced clothing ... lvl reqs of 22... has a DR of 5/- to Bludgeoning, Slashing and Piercing, no AC check penalty and does not limited ones AC bonus.
Has this changed in the last couple of years? This (http://forums.layonara.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=105867) shows only Slashing DR and an 18 level requirement.
Cool if it got better.
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Ox it, Gulnyr!
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I don't have any to ox. The closest Jennara has ever been to having MRC is once finding an enchanted mithril ingot on some dead guy, which is to say she has never been anywhere near having it.
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Mithril reinforced was updated about 2 years ago, give or take.