The World of Layonara
In-Character Forums => Rumour Has It => Topic started by: Hellblazer on May 23, 2009, 12:47:10 PM
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*he comes in well dressed and stands in front of the person, trying to look a bit more respectable than usual.*
I would like to be able to help this town economy slightly, by purchasing a tinker's device. This way you could keep the working adventurer in your town a little while more as they would not have to go to Hempstead of Vehl to work what they need to work. Surely after feeling tired for all the work, they would probably stop by the Inn and eat, drink and pass the night there. Buy more supplies in your town, overall, spending more money which would then bolster your economy.
I would be willing to spend the money to buy that tinker's device and maybe set it up in the Hlint smithy shop.
The question is; how many trues would you want, so this can be done?
*he awaits patiently*
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The official leans over the odd man with the red eyes, squinting his own slightly.
"Lad, ya know we put in one o' dem tinkers furnace things, aye? So them bloody smiths would stop gripin'. That what ya meanin'?"
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*Fehriel leans slightly and shakes his head*
No Sir*, what I mean is the actual tinker's device that is used to create arrow heads, springs, gear and other kinds of wears after the use of the tinker's furnace is used.
//*if a man at all.
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*Fehriel stands patiently, waiting to hear the cost of his proposition, while looking at a fly fly through the room*
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After several quiet moments of contemplating Fehriel with shrewd and judging eyes, he finally says:
We don't need the help or charity of your kind here.
Without a further word or a glance in Fehriel's direction, the man goes back about his work.
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*Fehriel looks at him a moment and says*
Of my kind?, so you don't want law biding, hard working people to bring money and work in your town? I'm only proposing to pay for a workstation out of generosity not out of charity. But eh! if you wish to make this a racial matter, words will probably go out to all that who are not of your race, that should not to come to hlint as this city do not wish to make business with them. Which means that your Rork will have a harder time to find people to get his ears. Your captain will have a harder time to find people to help her with the problems in the moors. The trading caravan that comes to hlint from wayfare will be delayed if not canceled, due to being attacked by the goblings each time they get a new leader elected. For what, refusing to do business with a simple ranger of Folian? It is a wonder than when your people were in need, they did not scuff at my help. Where would be hlint today, if not for those adventurer of all races that faught vaillantly by your side? Probably still under the slavery of the dark elves, or other evil of this world. But instead, we were there and helped you, and now you scuff us off, for feeling generous?
*He takes a small pause and takes a breath*
Wouldn't it be more wise for you and yours, to take the opportunity of expanding the possibilities of work in your beautiful town and in such, ensure your self a brighter future?
I am willing to file all the paperwork needed, and simply give a donation for a work station, no ties, I am not even looking for notoriety. Just to give something back to this town.
*He awaits a moment more, waiting for the man's answer.*
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The man squints one eye at Fehriel.
"Is that a threat, red-eye? Hmm?"
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//since I made edits to my other post I'll wait to see if you revise yours.
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// the post stands as-is
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*Fehriel shakes his head a little*
There is no threat in what I said, only a simple fact of life. People talks to each others, words get around the world. And in such good and less good things happens. It is also how prejudice keeps on going as people keep the perpetual talks without knowing for themselves the truth of a situation.
But these are the facts. I came openly without any ill thoughts, in hope to be of service and help Hlint and for what you percieve to be my kind, hence race as assumption could go, you decided to refuse it. Not because you didn't need the station, which you do. Not because I had made trouble in this town, which I never did, infact it's the opposite. But because of my red eyes, which could be simply be attributed to someone with an alergic reaction. But instead you decided to put it as a racial issue.
One would hope to see someone in your position of authority, to be open minded and see the benifit to his town this proposition would bring, as opposed to someone with prejudice that would ultimately bring a blight on the population that lives in this town.
It is a shame that all the great stories and songs that I heard, praising this town for it's past glory, acceptance and tolerance, be muddied by your attitude. It's to wonder if in reality it is not people like you and not the actual darkage, that brought the fall of this city, compared to what it used to be.
But, well, one has to know when to turn away and dust his shoes off. So I will bring the thousands of trues in business I bring to this town every week, elsewhere, and I will probably not be the only one.
Even with this, I hope that Folian walks and protects you every day of your life.
''He nods and turns to head out of the door.''
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The lengthy sermon from Fehriel nearly causes the official to bite through his own tongue, in the figurative and literal senses, but he manages to keep silent through it all. Once Fehriel turns to leave, the man says"
"Yeah, yeah...Folian walk yer arse right on outta 'ere."
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*Before exiting the office he turns*
At least my arse will sleep well at night knowing I may not be the cause of thousands of trues lost to the city.
*He the goes in a small ritual of lifting one foot and dusting it, then doing the same with the other, and exits the office. Once out he goes to the bank takes all his trues and possession out of their care. He then takes his ox and heads out of town. Once outside he repeats the feet dusting.*
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The official calls after him.
"Don' let the gate hit ye on th' way out, lad!"
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// Darthirâe, having chanced upon a very frustrated Fehriel outside of Hlint at the druid's campfire (n game), and learned of his experiences, reenters town the next day.
// In addition to her primary errand, which is to speak to the town crier(+), she will also go to the merchant hall and spend time learning about who the decision makers are in Hlint's small town politics, and sounding the merchants out about making the place every bit as friendly to making money as Port Hempstead is.
// Unlike the ever-so-good Fehriel, Darthirâe is not at all above making broad hints at "extra true appreciation" to the various political players (as in, "we appreciate what you've done, here is some extra True") for getting this Tinker's Device in place. (Actually, considering her general worldview and alignment, Darthirâe would make a superb lawyer or politician.)
// Her objective isn't to get a definitive "yes". At least, not right away. It's more to get a: 1) Is it possible at all?, 2) Are there any specific objections that would have to be overcome?, 3) How much, in total, would it cost?, and 4) What would the timeframe be?
//(I'm not RPing this directly because it covers likely more than a dozen conversations which would be very voluminous.)
// (+) Darthirâe tells the crier that it is now known that a small flotilla of Dragonstealer ships have anchored themselves outside the Battlehelm Moors, and this may possibly presage an invasion a thousand miles to the south, but to prevent panic this should not be widely repeated. She also drops him a few coin to ask him to send her a collect-upon-receipt bank letter if he hears of anyone asking around about where Dragons might be - because such people might be spies of this insane Dragonstealer cult. (She is doing this in a large number of places, not just Hlint.) She tells him not to confront such people directly, because they might be very dangerous.
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The official at first greets Darthirâe cordially and politely, even listens to her possibly lengthy inquiry, before narrowing his eyes at her, probably cutting her off in the process.
"Lady...I don' know if dat red-eyed lad sent ya in 'ere ta butter me up, but by Rofirein's glitterin' underscales it sounds like yer suggestin' a bribe," he says looking extremely displeased.
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Darthirâe smiles, and says, "Clearly, I have misspoken. Indeed, I was not intending to speak to you at all, as we have not been introduced. I do not know your name. I do not know your position. I don't even know what you look like under that helm. Before I spoke to you, I intended to learn all of these things."
"I was intending to speak to the merchants. After all, they are most involved in maintaining the economy of this town, which feeds its citizens, and I expect that one of them, or their guild, is likely to actually hold the deed to the property in question, and thus have actual legal authority over it."
"I shall return when these issues are sorted out, and the person, people, or guild to whom you owe fealty, explain to you that your personal prejudices about someone's appearance, no matter how deeply felt, do not hold priority over the best interests of the majority of the citizenry of Hlint. And will tell you what actually will happen to this property that you yourself do not own."
"Finally, since you have chosen to misinterpret my friendly gesture to help clean up the decoration of this office, as a bribe, I withdraw it. I would suggest, however, that you take a vacation, since you clearly desperately need one."
// Darthirâe will exit, and ask the following questions of the merchants:
1] What is the political structure of Hlint?
2] Who are the people who hold positions of power (aldermen, mayor, boards, nobles, rich merchants, guilds, etc.)?
3] What possible objection would anyone have to making themselves richer, via a free gift?
4] Who is this anonymous official who just says "no" all the time, anyway?
5] What is his problem?
6] Are people aware of how poor a decision maker he is?
7] If, for some absurd reason, this mid-level flunky gets to say "no", despite it being a benefit to everyone else, she will look for an alternative site - such as a house, or corner of the (rather cavernous) public inn.
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// He's not wearing a helm. In fact, he's rather well tended, though in modest clothing.
He somehow manages to hold his tongue throughout her speech, then eyes her sqarely.
"Listen lady, ya really need ta work on yer diplomacy and learn a bit about this town before you go preachin' about my prejudices. Now go on an' tell that red-eyed fella ya tried," he says before going about his work.
// and for the bullet list....
// First off, Darthirâe finds the general population rather skeptical of her. She generally gets the "You aren't from around here, are you lass?" look, and those who do bother to talk to her generally give short answers and excuse themselves as quickly as possible. She does find some more acceptance at the temple of Ilsare, if she goes, as well as finding the greatest amount of information there. The merchants overall are uninterested in talking to her if she's not buying goods or shelling out gold, and if you want to take that approach, I'll see that some is deducted from Darthirâe's bank account. Overall, this is what she uncovers:
1] Hlint is a village, run by a ruling council
2] The primary political entity is the ruling council, comprised of eight of the town's most prominent members. It's a relatively small town so it's light on bureaucracy
3] Some people actually consider "free gifts" in return for favor to be bribery and dishonest. This particular official, and really the entire ruling council, holds this view.
4] Given a description, it's not difficult for her to determine that the man's name is Jakob Halleran, and he is one of the eight in the ruling council.
5] He, like most of the town, bears a distinctive xenophobic bent, born of decades of really weird things that happened in town before the Dark Ages and the need to "huddle down" during them. The town distrusts outsiders as a general rule, and the stranger the stranger, the greater the distrust.
6] That is a matter of Darthirâe's opinion. Even those who speak to her in the temple do not hold this view. He is considered to be level headed and has always acted in a way believed to benefit the town and its current needs.
7] Try "top-level", and yes he gets to say "no" but there's always the seven other council members.
Freebie: One person she speaks with about the smithy in general just chuckles, shakes his head and says, "Yer chasin' wild birds with tha' one, lass."
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//Question Dorganath. I am new to this, so please bear with me.
//This seems to be a IC way to ask for a improvement of the Hlint map. Is the request refused because this is not asked by the proper means? Or is there a possibility it may be accepted but we have to find out how to ask it?
//Please bring some light... Thanks
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// This is a IC response to an IC initiative made initially by a character who is both a non-resident in Hlint and has "freakish" red eyes (by their perspective). As I mentioned, the town sort of went xenophobic (untrusting of "outsiders") due to historic events, most played out in-game.
// So what has happened here is this:
// An odd-looking, non-resident approached a council member and made an admittedly polite request for something that may or may not be within the council's power to grant. The council member reacted as he would, with distrust and even disgust, not at the request, but the one making the request. It's worth pointing out that Fehriel has a 6 CHA, which means people are going to react to him more negatively than the average person. That's two strikes against him right there.
// He then proceeded to lecture on tolerance with thinly-veiled threats (again, by the councilor's perspective) about loss of business. It's important to note here that concepts such as tolerance and not judging people on their appearance/race/etc. is not something that is a widely-held believe in the world of Layonara in general and certainly not within Hlint. To put it in Earth terms, such concepts are very much a late 20th century mindset, which is easily 500 years after the most applicable time period in-game right now. To put it another way, The vast majority of the Layonara population doesn't think twice about discriminating on looks, race, religion or any other factor.
// Next, Darthirâe shows up and starts making a similar "lecture" on tolerance, what's "best" for the town and so forth to a man who has already been chosen (along with others) to make such decisions for Hlint. She also makes veiled references to bribes to a man who simply put cannot be bought and will not sell his principles for any reason. Being of shrewd mind, he suspects that she may be working with Fehriel and sends her on her way.
// So this should not be seen as the complete refusal of an OOC request for a mechanical addition to the game, but rather the IC response of an NPC toward two PCs. Afterall, this question was approached in an IC manner and has thus been handled in one.
// And for what it's worth, I have spoken privately to Hellblazer about this and he was in complete understanding as to what was going on and why Fehriel received the reaction and response he did.
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**While people are standing about Hlint discussing the incompetencies of the local council, a dwarf is seen entering the Tobur Xin Smith under the heavy burden of what smells like... clay.**
// Sorry folks, I've completely got the wrong end of the stick here; there are Tinker's Furnaces, there isn't a Tinker's Device (there is a Jukebox). Retracting this post (and please remove the Thanks). Apologies to Hellblazer and SteveMaurer, and everyone else for the confusion. :rolleyes: //
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// aye, just to make sure any one on here see it. When I created feh with a cha of 6 I knew of the consequences. Although, the rp behind it may not be obvious to most, I would be willing to explain privately as to not let rp opportunities slip up.
But I couldn't have wanted a better way for this to have been handled.. well... *coughs*besidegettingapprovedtopurcahsethetinker'sdevice*coughs* :p
Even if it was a short thing, I had a lot of fun with it, and having the IG Rp with darth was a lot of fun too. Thanks to both Dorg and steve for that.
So basically I totally understand and respect how this has been responded too, and I had considered it to be quite a big possibility even before I posted.
So come on guys, raise up for the freaked red eye guy.. and boycott that town lolol
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Yeah, let's boycott! What are those poor peasants gonna do without their steady stream of pit-spawned freaks, surly dwarven brawlers, pyromaniac mages, disreputable shysters and hooded dark elves passing through?!!?? Take that Jakob Halleran!
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There is a polite knock on the door and a medium sized man enters the room at the request of the occupant. He removes his head gear showing a receding hairline on an all too human head and introduces himself as Xaltotun, a mage of small means who frequents the town.
He goes on to say that he must compliment the man, Jakob Halleran, for his care and consideration of the requests to alter the town's resources, especially coming from someone of a dubious demeanour.
"I myself have become concerned over the number of dubious characters who have been frequenting this quite pleasant hamlet that you and the council have been at pains to keep in the more traditional model, rather than some of the other towns I visit." He shudders at some distant thought.
"I thought you may like to know that the council has the full support of the locals," and bowing slightly in respect, he backs out of the door and walks away.
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Jakob braces for yet another lecture from this new visitor, but soon eases with Xaltotun's words.
"Aye...uh...thanks, lad," he says as Xaltotun starts to leave, then scours his memory to see if he recognizes the man.
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// Hoooo ! this is getting interesting ;-)
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// So what has happened here is this:
// Next, Darthirâe shows up and starts making a similar "lecture" on tolerance, what's "best" for the town and so forth to a man who has already been chosen (along with others) to make such decisions for Hlint. She also makes veiled references to bribes to a man who simply put cannot be bought and will not sell his principles for any reason. Being of shrewd mind, he suspects that she may be working with Fehriel and sends her on her way.
// No, Dorg. What happened is that I wrote that Darthirâe started asking around town, sounding out the merchants, and you immediately assumed that she was going to act as ham-handedly as a CHA 6 PC.
// You immediately placed her in front of your "Mr. No", assumed that she had done none of her political homework - which I explicitly told you she was doing - and had him "respond" to a conversation she did not initiate, with the assumption that she'd come across about as crudely as one can possibly imagine, which is as far away from Darthirâe's personality as you can get.
// The fact that you haven't even bothered to give a name to this "official", clearly means that you weren't taking this request seriously. So please don't pretend this had any IC justification at all.
// Xenophobia ends very quickly when people start waving very large wads of cash in front of political officials (and if you don't believe that, you don't know politics). This is the equivalent of a Saudi prince offering to upgrade some small Alabama town's fire department for free; "scary muslim" or not, anyone fool enough to turn the offer down flat, would soon be out of a job.
// I accept you may have all sorts of good OOC justifications for saying no, down to the perfectly OK, "sorry, just too busy". I accept that. But every time Darthirâe gets hit in combat because her DEX is 10 and her CHA is 14, instead of her DEX being 14 and her CHA being 10, I say to myself "Well, at least people like her", which is what a CHA implies.
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The fact that you haven't even bothered to give a name to this "official"
Actually, he did name the official.
4] Given a description, it's not difficult for her to determine that the man's name is Jakob Halleran, and he is one of the eight in the ruling council.
Also, the following:
// No, Dorg. What happened is that I wrote that Darthirâe started asking around town, sounding out the merchants, and you immediately assumed that she was going to act as ham-handedly as a CHA 6 PC.
// You immediately placed her in front of your "Mr. No", assumed that she had done none of her political homework - which I explicitly told you she was doing - and had him "respond" to a conversation she did not initiate, with the assumption that she'd come across about as crudely as one can possibly imagine, which is as far away from Darthirâe's personality as you can get.
// The fact that you haven't even bothered to give a name to this "official", clearly means that you weren't taking this request seriously. So please don't pretend this had any IC justification at all.
... is more fitting for a PM than a public forum (and perhaps you used a PM before posting). If you have a specific issue with the actions (in this case a forum posting due to a possible misconception) of a member of the community, please go to the source and attempt to discover the cause of miscommunication/misunderstanding. If you feel you need a third party as witness, include another member of the team/community. I can understand the frustration of what you wrote being misinterpreted/overlooked. We are not above editing posts to reflect a new understanding/admit an error.
If indeed Dorganath has made an error in his assumption of your character's actions, that is easily remedied by both sides providing more explicit details, such as actually RPing the conversation from start to finish. IRC is a perfect venue for such IC conversations if you have trouble setting up the situation on the forums or IG.
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// This entire post is OOC
OK, first...just back down a notch. You're far too agitated here over what may be little more than a minor misunderstanding.
// No, Dorg. What happened is that I wrote that Darthirâe started asking around town, sounding out the merchants, and you immediately assumed that she was going to act as ham-handedly as a CHA 6 PC.
No, I did not assume she would be as ham-handed as Fehriel. In fact, he was courteous, polite and even listened for some of it.
The official at first greets Darthirâe cordially and politely, even listens to her possibly lengthy inquiry, before narrowing his eyes at her, probably cutting her off in the process.
"Lady...I don' know if dat red-eyed lad sent ya in 'ere ta butter me up, but by Rofirein's glitterin' underscales it sounds like yer suggestin' a bribe," he says looking extremely displeased.
Now, having just spoken with Fehriel, he was suspicious of someone coming by and starting to make a similar request. As such, he wanted nothing to do with it.
// You immediately placed her in front of your "Mr. No", assumed that she had done none of her political homework - which I explicitly told you she was doing - and had him "respond" to a conversation she did not initiate, with the assumption that she'd come across about as crudely as one can possibly imagine, which is as far away from Darthirâe's personality as you can get.
As for my conclusion as to whether or not Darthirâe spoke to him directly, I took it from this that she would be:
// Unlike the ever-so-good Fehriel, Darthirâe is not at all above making broad hints at "extra true appreciation" to the various political players (as in, "we appreciate what you've done, here is some extra True") for getting this Tinker's Device in place.
Merchants are not political players. Given that the town is small and its primary political body is a very small number of people, it was not a baseless assumption that she would speak with Jakob eventually.
If there is any error here, it is in this conclusion, and I will be more than happy to give you a "do-over" if you wish the RP to go a different way. You have your political research now in any case (posted above), and I'll be happy to provide more, so I leave it up to you.
// The fact that you haven't even bothered to give a name to this "official", clearly means that you weren't taking this request seriously. So please don't pretend this had any IC justification at all.
Per my last response to you:
4] Given a description, it's not difficult for her to determine that the man's name is Jakob Halleran, and he is one of the eight in the ruling council.
I am, in fact taking this request seriously, but you must understand that the NPC is taking this request in an entirely different way that is absolutely in-character for him. I am not pretending anything, and if you're really curious, I can post you a write-up on the NPC as well, outlining his personality and demeanor.
// Xenophobia ends very quickly when people start waving very large wads of cash in front of political officials (and if you don't believe that, you don't know politics). This is the equivalent of a Saudi prince offering to upgrade some small Alabama town's fire department for free; "scary muslim" or not, anyone fool enough to turn the offer down flat, would soon be out of a job.
Not in Hlint it doesn't. Sorry. I know politics, but Hlint, as I described above, has a vested interest in protecting itself against the potentially destructive and disruptive influences of strangers, given the long history of the town of which you may or may not be aware. This latter is not your fault, but I have attempted to educate you. In the official write-up of Hlint, the town council will not sell out their principles and the town's safety and security for any amount of True. Politics, as you should know, is a game of special cases, and sometimes those special cases do not fit the "norm" where bribery, kick-backs, pay-for-play, nepotism and other less-than-desireable aspects of politics simply do not apply.
You can argue this point until you're blue in the face (or in this case, until your fingers are bruised) but this aspect of Hlint is official world lore.
// I accept you may have all sorts of good OOC justifications for saying no, down to the perfectly OK, "sorry, just too busy". I accept that. But every time Darthirâe gets hit in combat because her DEX is 10 and her CHA is 14, instead of her DEX being 14 and her CHA being 10, I say to myself "Well, at least people like her", which is what a CHA implies.
I have absolutely no OOC justifications for saying "no". I have not said "no" at all, nor have I said "yes". In fact, as I said prior:
// So this should not be seen as the complete refusal of an OOC request for a mechanical addition to the game, but rather the IC response of an NPC toward two PCs. Afterall, this question was approached in an IC manner and has thus been handled in one.
Me rejecting this would be an OOC refusal, but I am not Jakob. I am a GM playing in the skin of Jakob, and I must play his character just as surely as I'd play one of my own.
I know this NPC. You do not. It's as simple as that. If this was brought up in our suggestions forum, then my response may well have been completely different. But no, it was brought up in an IC way, and thus has been handled as such.
As for her CHA, before I even bothered to respond, I actually looked it up on LORE, so I'm well aware of her stats and skills (including Gather Information) and I did, in fact, take them into account with Jakob's reactions and in her attempts to learn more around town. But just because she's easy on the eyes...just because she may be a smooth talker and be generally persuasive, accommodating, polite or whatever, that does not change the underlying mindset of this particular NPC.
Now then, if you would like to resume a respectful (and your last reply was anything but) and IC process, even correcting for any mistake I may have made along the line, then I'm more than willing to do so. However, I fear that the assumptions you have made may have further polluted this misunderstanding.
I leave it in your hands.
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// Xenophobia ends very quickly when people start waving very large wads of cash in front of political officials (and if you don't believe that, you don't know politics).
//Keep in mind that Hlint used to be the starting city for PCs, and a lot went on there that justified xenophobia - wierd armored people summoning skeletons in the street, goblins chasing people-who-shouldn't-stick-their-nose-where-it-doesn't-belong all the way into town, crazy robed fellows trying to teach the children in the town that its ok to be a dark elf, and other dangerous things and ideas.
Sure, some people would love to have a more cosmopolitan town again, but I'm also sure that many were thrilled when the town got quieter, and want anything but a new fancy toy that they don't understand to bring more of those kind back to their little home.
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// Well this is no slight to anyone here, as I understand that misenterpretation can happen, but now I feel like I should just have brought this in a ooc matter. So as I was the one starting this thread to bring a request into a bit of rp and have a bit of fun with it. And to see it has now turned into a bit of a molted laval pool, I'd like to request this thread to be shut down, before it goes down into a worst state. Thanks Dorg for the Rp and I am sorry this turned this way.
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// It's fine how you did, Hellblazer, and it's unfortunately one of the perils of text-based communication.
// Your request is noted, but in fairness, I'm going to leave the thread open to at least give SteveMaurer a chance to respond, and if he wishes, continue.
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//All right, re-reading my post, I realize it was not something I should have written. Or maybe written just to vent, and then deleted instead of hitting the "Send" button. So I apologize to all, especially Dorg.
//Games are supposed to be fun. If you're not having fun, or causing others to not have fun, you have to back off.
// I leave it to Dorg as to whether he wants to keep doing this in the forum like this. Either way is fine by me.
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//This is all OOC
// Well this is no slight to anyone here, as I understand that misenterpretation can happen, but now I feel like I should just have brought this in a ooc matter.
and Dorg writes in reply..
// It's fine how you did, Hellblazer, and it's unfortunately one of the perils of text-based communication.
Dorg hits it on the head. Text based communications are fraught with all sort of problems and the words have to be read, re-read and mulled over before you respond to them. You should never, ever respond in anger.
What I am trying to suggest is that I like this way of handling IC situations. It's unfortunate some of the words got heavy (or didn't they and perhaps I have not re-read them enough?) but hey, it happens and we're not going to sue one another so no foul, no harm. So lighten up everyone.
Personally, I would like to see this line of chat continue to some sort of conclusion (and possibly even an in-game scenario of some sort for interested parties?).
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// I concur with Xaltotun.
// It was beginning to get interesting. Let see where we go with it.
// And as Milton... stated, we may use IRC in case of mutual incomprehension. ;)
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//All right, re-reading my post, I realize it was not something I should have written. Or maybe written just to vent, and then deleted instead of hitting the "Send" button. So I apologize to all, especially Dorg.
//Games are supposed to be fun. If you're not having fun, or causing others to not have fun, you have to back off.
// I leave it to Dorg as to whether he wants to keep doing this in the forum like this. Either way is fine by me.
Up to you...I'm perfectly willing to back things up a bit.
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// All right, let's back this up.
Darthirâe enters Hlint, and proceeds to speak to each of the merchants in town. These are the kinds of questions she would be asking:
"Who are the present leaders of Hlint?"
"Are these the same people that make decisions about what is allowed in the craft halls, or is that different?"
"How did these people get their authority? Do they hold 'shoutings' (medieval equivalent of a town-hall/vote) here? An aristocracy? Some mixture?"
"Are the merchants involved in making these decisions?" // Note: Darthirâe will be exceedingly surprised that the answer, as Dorg has already stated, is "no". This is highly atypical. In most small towns, the merchant-guild/chamber-of-commerce isn't just a political player, they are typically the overwhelmingly dominant one. Money=Power.
"Since they apparently don't listen to you, who do they listen to? A specific church? Some group of aristocrats?"
"What motivates these people? What is the reason for their dislike of commerce, since helping the town economy doesn't seem to be what they care about? Or is it the opposite? Maybe they're underpaid and are just looking for a little extra appreciation?" *shrugs, tolerantly*
"Say that someone was going to bequeath a large gift to the town - that would aid both the town and you personally - but it got rejected by some local before it was even fully heard out. What would you do?
"This would be a Tinker's Device, paid for by a rich 'venturer. You know the type - gambled his life and won? Now he has more gold than he knows what to do with. And he has friends too! You know, play your cards right, and this could be very profitable indeed."
"He's a human Folanite. Woodland ranger. Wild looking. Doesn't have a lot of obvious magic like some 'venturers do, but does use something that makes his eyes glow red. Scary. Still, he's on our side. Keeps the road safe. He helped defend Hlint against the invaders from the crypt. And if they ever return, he's exactly the kind of guy you want to have around. Not a pussycat. Almost makes you pity the red light goblins he kills as a hobby."
// Assuming that they are suffering under some band of fire breathing idiots (say a group of angry paladins who hate worshipers of gods of merchants or crafting - or some such)...
"Is there another venue where such a gift might be sited where they cannot get in the way of the town receiving a large donation? Perhaps the back room of the inn, or maybe here?"
-
// Assuming that they are suffering under some band of fire breathing idiots (say a group of angry paladins who hate worshipers of gods of merchants or crafting - or some such)...
// sorry... this gave me a chuckle.... *grins*
-
Hearing of Fehriel's and many other's Failure a slender elf walks in to the office.
"Hello, I understand you have been getting complaints that there is no Tinkerers device here"
-
Darthirâe is able to find out the following (and sorry for the delay):
"Who are the present leaders of Hlint?"
"Are these the same people that make decisions about what is allowed in the craft halls, or is that different?"
"How did these people get their authority? Do they hold 'shoutings' (medieval equivalent of a town-hall/vote) here? An aristocracy? Some mixture?"
The town, as I discussed earlier, is ruled by a council of eight individuals, made up of the towns most prominent members: Three farmers, the retired Capitan Garent, retired Quartermaster Talon, the current head priestess of the Hlint Ilsare temple the aging Calise, the blacksmith and a merchant who keeps his home in Hlint.
The merchants, beign locals themselves, think pretty highly about these people, who seem to almost always vote in favor of keeping the town to itself, something that actually seems like a positive thing to everyone Darthirâe speaks with.
Since there is only one "craft hall" in Hlint, that being the Tobur Xin Smithy, and since that blacksmith is on the council....yes, it is very likely they could make such decisions, but not necessarily as a group or as "town business".
"Are the merchants involved in making these decisions?" // Note: Darthirâe will be exceedingly surprised that the answer, as Dorg has already stated, is "no". This is highly atypical. In most small towns, the merchant-guild/chamber-of-commerce isn't just a political player, they are typically the overwhelmingly dominant one. Money=Power.
The one on the council is, but the rest of the town's merchants are not.
"Since they apparently don't listen to you, who do they listen to? A specific church? Some group of aristocrats?"
Answers to this question tend to be shrugs and things like "I dunno. Who they're prayin' to ain' none of my business."
Most suspect though that they ultimately answer to Trelania and the current queen.
"What motivates these people? What is the reason for their dislike of commerce, since helping the town economy doesn't seem to be what they care about? Or is it the opposite? Maybe they're underpaid and are just looking for a little extra appreciation?" *shrugs, tolerantly*
This question draws a confused look from most, as it's explained that they buy and sell plenty, though it's a farming community and there's some degree of self-sufficiency. Their "motivations" are health and comfort for their families, and a calm, peaceful existance.
"Say that someone was going to bequeath a large gift to the town - that would aid both the town and you personally - but it got rejected by some local before it was even fully heard out. What would you do?
The phrasing of this question draws reactions from raised eyebrows to outright offense. Since all the merchants fall into the category of "some local" and they're generally pleased with how the council runs things, Darthirâe will start to be seen rather suspiciously at this point, if they don't just stop talking to her with a question like, "Lady, are you going to buy something or just talk?"
"This would be a Tinker's Device, paid for by a rich 'venturer. You know the type - gambled his life and won? Now he has more gold than he knows what to do with. And he has friends too! You know, play your cards right, and this could be very profitable indeed."
If she even gets to this question (see the above response), it's quite likely this will get her a response of, "OUT! This town ain't fer sale, and it's 'rich 'venturers' tha' caused all dem problems in the past. So keep yer money, lady. We don' want it."
At best, the reaction will be something like "Ya can't put a price on principles, lass, so either buy somethin' or get out the way."
"He's a human Folanite. Woodland ranger. Wild looking. Doesn't have a lot of obvious magic like some 'venturers do, but does use something that makes his eyes glow red. Scary. Still, he's on our side. Keeps the road safe. He helped defend Hlint against the invaders from the crypt. And if they ever return, he's exactly the kind of guy you want to have around. Not a pussycat. Almost makes you pity the red light goblins he kills as a hobby."
By this time, she could be describing the Queen of Trelania and the merchant would be beyond caring due to the (perhaps inadvertent) insults to their sensibilities and way of life.
// Assuming that they are suffering under some band of fire breathing idiots (say a group of angry paladins who hate worshipers of gods of merchants or crafting - or some such)...
"Is there another venue where such a gift might be sited where they cannot get in the way of the town receiving a large donation? Perhaps the back room of the inn, or maybe here?"[/quote]
IF Darthirâe even gets to this question, it will be rejected, possibly angrily, and she may well be told to take it to some place already corrupt.
-----
One last note, some of the merchants will be flat-out hesitant to speak to her at all without someone to vouch for her or otherwise say she's good and decent. In her case, it has nothing to do with her appearance and everything to do with the fact that she's not a resident and not generally well-known around town. After all this, she may find fewer friendly faces among the merchant set, due to suspicions of her trying to subvert the town's quiet and peaceful way-of-life.
-
Hearing of Fehriel's and many other's Failure a slender elf walks in to the office.
"Hello, I understand you have been getting complaints that there is no Tinkerers device here"
// Only Fehriel has "failed" in this regard and Darthirâe's effort has been rolled back and is starting again. No one else has "tried and failed" so far, and thus I won't reply to this one until Darthirâe's has reached some conclusion, or at least seems to be heading that way.
-
If she even gets to this question (see the above response)
Darthirâe would not proceed with any further questions as soon as she senses hostility. So I'll pretend she didn't get the information given from the last answers.
Second, to the question "Lady, are you going to buy something?", let me state for the record that for the past few years, Darthirâe has been a very good customer of Hlint merchants - especially their craft merchant. She often spends time in the Silkwoods collecting bug parts, and buys potion supplies (and food, drinks, occasional lodging, arrows, bandages, healing potions) on her way up to Moraken's tower. (Although she never has talked to him about it, she's still a bit miffed at Moraken for making fools of some of her human male companions with his nymph transformation at the academy opening in Port Hempstead, yet still makes use of the facilities there - but that's another story.)
Probably in the last Layonaran year alone, she has done 700 to 800 True worth of business with the merchants.
Still, from what has been just described, it's hard to miss a stark change in attitude among the Hlint residents. This was a town that until very recently ([lore]Hlint[/lore]) as a "Boom town", which "lies on unarguably the most secure and therefore most traveled east-west passage on the continent of Mistone" beckoning "would-be adventurers and resource seekers, bringing them in droves from all over the continent." And that "[d]espite these recent disruptions to daily life in Hlint it continues to draw all manner of creatures and adventures hoping to become the heroes of tomorrow".
The economy, in short, revolves around trade across the continent, along with outfitting individual mercenaries. The repeated statements that they'd give it all up, and go back to the (mythical) halcyon days of their grandparents, seems a clear change in political direction.
So she concludes, rightly or wrongly, that the resistance to this gift is that the Hlint leaders (and most locals) think that the adventurers that have been with the town for at least the past 10 to 20 years are the cause, and not the solution, to their recent troubles.
Based on that supposition, she would first go to sound out the Illsare Priestess, and put forth that theory, along with the following questions:
1] First of all, is there a legitimate case to be made that adventurers have caused more damage than the obvious protection they give, in keeping the roads safe, the caravans coming through, and the orcs and goblins at bay?
2] Millions of people have died in the last decade. Like many many many other towns and large cities, Hlint could have easily been wiped from the face of Layonara by various dangers. But it was not, largely thanks to people like Fehriel, who took Hlint's banner as their own. So what is the cause for the sudden new hostility? Did something recent happen?
3] How uniform is this sentiment? Is no one thankful for the heroes who died defending this town? Is there not a human townsperson, whose life was saved by one as a child, who commemorates the grave of the adventurer who saved them? (Emotively, Darthirâe is not at all sounding judgemental or sancimonious in this; her attitude is more one of surprise. Hlint's reaction is the kind of one she would expect from her own home town.)
4] Does the Hlint crier tell people of how some from this very town, killed Bloodstone, and put to death the scourge of a thousand years? Again, Darthirâe does not specifically say it, but conveys a sense of surprise that it would not be a source of small-town pride that Hlint is the home town for the people who saved the world, rather than the apparent reverse.
5] Regardless of how it happened, again Darthirâe asks the priestess, how this apparent rift between the caravan merchants (who use the trade route across the continent), the adventurers, and the local residents could be mended. If it can be.
-
Darthirâe would not proceed with any further questions as soon as she senses hostility. So I'll pretend she didn't get the information given from the last answers.
Noted. At least she won't be shunned then. ;)
Second, to the question "Lady, are you going to buy something?", let me state for the record that for the past few years, Darthirâe has been a very good customer of Hlint merchants - especially their craft merchant. She often spends time in the Silkwoods collecting bug parts, and buys potion supplies (and food, drinks, occasional lodging, arrows, bandages, healing potions) on her way up to Moraken's tower.
That particular merchant meant "right here, right now." There are other customers, afterall.
Still, from what has been just described, it's hard to miss a stark change in attitude among the Hlint residents. This was a town that until very recently ([lore]Hlint[/lore]) as a "Boom town", which "lies on unarguably the most secure and therefore most traveled east-west passage on the continent of Mistone" beckoning "would-be adventurers and resource seekers, bringing them in droves from all over the continent." And that "[d]espite these recent disruptions to daily life in Hlint it continues to draw all manner of creatures and adventures hoping to become the heroes of tomorrow".
OK, so let me clarify something then in a purely OOC manner which you can then translate to IC however you see fit.
First off, unfortunately not all our lore on LORE is 100% current, but realm/kingdom summaries are actually on the way soonish, just as we have updated the deity information recently. What is written for Hlint was valid in the last campaign but that has all changed starting with the end of the campaign.
Immediately after Bloodstone's death in 1402 (I advise taking a peek at the Layonara Timeline (http://lore.layonara.com/The%20Layonara%20Timeline) for a sense of time here), the world was plunged into the Dark Ages, essentially a volcanic/nuclear winter that lasted a good 18 years until it was suddenly cleared (plot quest effort...I won't detail it here and no one in Hlint will likely know). During these 18 years, millions upon millions of people died of starvation from crop failures, from increased predation from animals and other hostile creatures and from bandits seeking to take for themselves. Many towns and villages were wiped off the map, literally and figuratively, due to them literally dying out. Populations became more isolated.
Hlint's current xenophobia is a product of this time and of the wacky events of the past prior to Bloodstone's fall. It was, at one time, a "boom town" but the Dark Ages changed that. The in-game representation of Hlint used to be twice as large with a full craft hall and a stronger merchant presence. The town is smaller now than it was, and the residents are happy about that.
So the "until very recently" assumption is unfortunately incorrect and has been for some time. Again, that is partially our fault, as we have a massive amount of updating to do and an all-volunteer staff who does the best they can with the time they have. We apologize if this has caused you confusion or false assumption.
The economy, in short, revolves around trade across the continent, along with outfitting individual mercenaries. The repeated statements that they'd give it all up, and go back to the (mythical) halcyon days of their grandparents, seems a clear change in political direction.
Their "economy" is much more slanted toward self-sufficiency than before, and that is also something they're happy about. Sure, there are things that need to be brought in from outside, and likewise, they sell their goods to others in the normal conduction of commerce, but only as much as they need, and not just for the sake of growing their economy. As far as they're concerned, their "economy" grows on the farms surrounding the town.
It is a change in political direction, or perhaps more accurately, a change in the mindsets of residents. Either way, the effect is the same, but it is not a sudden shift.
So she concludes, rightly or wrongly, that the resistance to this gift is that the Hlint leaders (and most locals) think that the adventurers that have been with the town for at least the past 10 to 20 years are the cause, and not the solution, to their recent troubles.
I'll leave you to her conclusion and will neither refute nor confirm it. That is, afterall, hers to hold.
Based on that supposition, she would first go to sound out the Illsare Priestess, and put forth that theory, along with the following questions:
In general, Darthirâe finds the priestess far more open-minded and less isolationist than most of the other Hlint residents.
1] First of all, is there a legitimate case to be made that adventurers have caused more damage than the obvious protection they give, in keeping the roads safe, the caravans coming through, and the orcs and goblins at bay?
She wonders where you're going with this. The town has its own guard and generally can defend itself just fine. She wonders which adventurers actually make a life patrolling the roads and escorting caravans on a regular basis because...well...that's not very "adventurey".
2] Millions of people have died in the last decade. Like many many many other towns and large cities, Hlint could have easily been wiped from the face of Layonara by various dangers. But it was not, largely thanks to people like Fehriel, who took Hlint's banner as their own. So what is the cause for the sudden new hostility? Did something recent happen?
Eh, that number may be a bit high. Layonara's population is nowhere near that of Earth, even though they are roughly the same physical size.
As for Hlint's endangerment, she will tell you that the last major threat that the town faced were the Dark Ages themselves, and that the townsfolk believe that was because of the adventurers. She does not necessarily agree with this view, or rather, she does not hold them to blame for what happened, even though it's a well-known thing that adventurers did in fact bring about the Dark Ages.
3] How uniform is this sentiment? Is no one thankful for the heroes who died defending this town? Is there not a human townsperson, whose life was saved by one as a child, who commemorates the grave of the adventurer who saved them? (Emotively, Darthirâe is not at all sounding judgemental or sancimonious in this; her attitude is more one of surprise. Hlint's reaction is the kind of one she would expect from her own home town.)
The answers realistically that she doesn't know many of these so-called heroes who actually died defending Hlint, as those Darthirâe speaks of were bound to the stones. Those actually considered heroes these days by the town were the guards and resident militia who were not bound and laid down their lives for any threats that surfaced since the Dark Ages began.
She will say though that some so not necessarily blame adventurers for anything, but rather just don't wish their influence in their town to reach the levels it once was.
4] Does the Hlint crier tell people of how some from this very town, killed Bloodstone, and put to death the scourge of a thousand years? Again, Darthirâe does not specifically say it, but conveys a sense of surprise that it would not be a source of small-town pride that Hlint is the home town for the people who saved the world, rather than the apparent reverse.
She'll correct you and say that Hlint was not, in fact, the home town for those known as the Dragoncalled. Rather, those Dragoncalled were drawn to this town as part of the calling and that they came from all over Layonara, though a few did make Hlint their home. So for a while, the town was proud that they were somehow "chosen" to receive these that a dragon deemed worthy to fight against the threat that was Sinthar Bloodstone, but even before the war ended, the adventurers brought wild displays of harmful magics on the main streets where families roamed. They would bring in large beasts, summoned or tamed, or other intimidating creatures and constructs that would frighten children and cause temporary chaos.
5] Regardless of how it happened, again Darthirâe asks the priestess, how this apparent rift between the caravan merchants (who use the trade route across the continent), the adventurers, and the local residents could be mended. If it can be.
She says this is up to the hearts and minds of the residents, and she does not believe it will be mended by campaigns of public relations or fancy gifts meant to sway their opinions, as they're generally distrustful of such gestures. "The attitudes in town were not formed overnight and nor will they be changed in such," she says.
-
///Start OOC
OK, so let me clarify something then in a purely OOC manner which you can then translate to IC however you see fit.
First off, unfortunately not all our lore on LORE is 100% current, but realm/kingdom summaries are actually on the way soonish, just as we have updated the deity information recently. What is written for Hlint was valid in the last campaign but that has all changed starting with the end of the campaign.
Immediately after Bloodstone's death in 1402 (I advise taking a peek at the Layonara Timeline (http://lore.layonara.com/The%20Layonara%20Timeline) for a sense of time here), the world was plunged into the Dark Ages, essentially a volcanic/nuclear winter that lasted a good 18 years until it was suddenly cleared (plot quest effort...I won't detail it here and no one in Hlint will likely know). During these 18 years, millions upon millions of people died of starvation from crop failures, from increased predation from animals and other hostile creatures and from bandits seeking to take for themselves. Many towns and villages were wiped off the map, literally and figuratively, due to them literally dying out. Populations became more isolated.
Hlint's current xenophobia is a product of this time and of the wacky events of the past prior to Bloodstone's fall. It was, at one time, a "boom town" but the Dark Ages changed that. The in-game representation of Hlint used to be twice as large with a full craft hall and a stronger merchant presence. The town is smaller now than it was, and the residents are happy about that.
So the "until very recently" assumption is unfortunately incorrect and has been for some time. Again, that is partially our fault, as we have a massive amount of updating to do and an all-volunteer staff who does the best they can with the time they have. We apologize if this has caused you confusion or false assumption.
Their "economy" is much more slanted toward self-sufficiency than before, and that is also something they're happy about. Sure, there are things that need to be brought in from outside, and likewise, they sell their goods to others in the normal conduction of commerce, but only as much as they need, and not just for the sake of growing their economy. As far as they're concerned, their "economy" grows on the farms surrounding the town.
Ah, well that explains a lot. Working off the lore, it really sounded like you were roleplaying a political establishment that was completely out of touch with the views and opinions of its constituents. (Not the most uncommon of situations, mind you.) And because of this, it led Darthirâe to do things differently than she would have otherwise. There's no use trying to rally the public around reversing an unpopular decision made by unpopular leaders, when neither is actually unpopular.
And while Hlint's situation can now be seen as clearly against Darthirâe, it makes me happier, because the rejections she's been getting don't seem quite as arbitrary. I'd rather a PC fail in a way that makes sense, than succeed because of artificial GM caprice that makes the world seem unrealistic.
One more OOC question: I stated that "millions of people died the last decade", and that "Hlint could have easily been wiped from the map, if not for adventurers". This brought the following response:
Eh, that number may be a bit high. Layonara's population is nowhere near that of Earth, even though they are roughly the same physical size.
Isn't that what you said above though? "[M]illions upon millions of people died of starvation from crop failures, from increased predation from animals and other hostile creatures and from bandits seeking to take for themselves."
Is there something I'm missing?
More importantly though, it sounds like at least for the residents of Hlint, they are entirely unaware of how much they depend on adventurers for their safety. And on this, I am again going to have to depend on a gameworld assumption that this is actually true. So if her little speech below says things that are clearly false (but haven't been stated as such in the lore), assume she didn't make it.
I also assume Darthirâe is speaking to Calise, the human administrator of the Ilsare temple, and presumably the one who has control over the temple's vote in the council.
//// END OOC
"The attitudes in town were not formed overnight and nor will they be changed in such," she says.
"In truth," Darthirâe says, "I am not looking to change the attitudes of the entire town. The people here support their leaders in part because they trust them to spend time they themselves do not have to learn of the issues, and be wiser than they about decision making. So if I can persuade the leaders, then that should be good enough."
"And that, necessarily, starts here. For if I cannot persuade the church of Ilsare, who remain the most enlightened of all the residents of Hlint, I doubt I'll be able to make much headway elsewhere. And if I do persuade you, I will need your aid in approaching the other council members."
"So let me begin by giving you information I am certain many people do not know. The reason why patrolling the roads and escorting caravans on a regular basis is not very 'adventurey', is because it is boring. And it is boring because it is safe. It is safe, however, not because goblins have ceased their war against the surface races. That war continues today. However, due to the stone bound, that war is fought almost entirely inside enemy territory, in the caverns themselves."
"And bloody that war is, indeed. It is said that Ilsarians appreciate both intellectual argument and drama, so let me dramatize the situation intellectually. While I do not look like the classic hard-bitten adventurer, my soul too is stone-bound. In the course of the last three years I have, with my magics, killed in excess of two hundred and fifty red light goblins, including one of their leaders - who, through use of traps and other techniques, I assassinated by myself alone in the caves. And I know at least twenty other people, including Fehriel, who could claim at least that amount."
"Now multiply that out. And ask yourself where would Hlint be without the stone bound. That is at least 20 times 250, or 5000 goblin warriors that are not present to lay ambushes on your roads, burn your fields, or kill your citizens. I understand that you are proud of your local guards. But do you honestly think they could withstand such a hoarde if they were left alone long enough to organize and attack?"
"Further, that is not the only danger. Recently there was a greater portal that opened, out of which poured greater undead. I got a look at it myself, and I do not exaggerate at all to say that it looked like it offered direct transferrence straight out of the Hells of Corath himself. Black magic swirled about both it and its guardian. I do not know who managed to close it, or how, but whoever did kept Hlint viable."
"In short, as I see it, venturers are victims of their own success. If they did less good of a job at keeping danger far away, then quirks or no, they would be respected more."
"I do not say these things to suggest that you should throw yourself prostrate at the feet of those of us who have risked the bindstone ritual. I say it as a warning. Right now, Hlint's crier yells news of threats to the south to deaf ears - for that is nearly half a year of travel away except by portal, and no one here can imagine such troubles could come this far. Yet if Fort Vehl or Port Hempstead truly falls under threat, it is nearly certain that most of the stone bound will leave to meet it. And then, little Hlint will finally have what its citizens think they wish for: to be truly alone, without these troublesome and scary people who constantly come to town to wash their clothes clean of goblin and orc blood, and also their own."
"I cannot promise you this will not happen. But I can say that if it does, you'd better be well stocked with bandages and advanced weapons. It will not take long at all for the goblins to be at your gates."
"Which brings me to the subject of the Gnomish Device. When the worshippers of Baeron Ca'Duz attacked, they destroyed as much as they could of Hlint's crafting mechanisms. Do you recognize why this was done?
"The answer is that it was done as a 'sting' - the bite a spider gives prey that it would normally be too big to take itself. The point is not to kill, but to weaken and withdraw, to allow the poison to take hold. In this case though, the 'sting' is that of inferior weaponry. Already, as a result of that attack, both the captains of both Fort Llast and Haven have had to rely on adventurers to help keep their armorys stocked, because absent the means to make or repair their own, they are utterly dependent on outsiders who import them from elsewhere across the presently safe roads."
"And yet again, if those roads cease to be safe, you lose access to that weaponry. Imagine that hoarde of goblins at your gates with little more than bent swords and rocks to use against them."
"In short, I completely agree with the residents of Hlint who wish to be independent. But that independence will be aided, not harmed, by including devices that allow manufacture and maintenance of your own means of defense. That is why it is smart for your council to put your pride aside, and accept this gift, whether or not you like the giver."
"Oh, and I'd suggest you consider building your walls higher too. Just in case. And practice your archery. Not all arrows need be ones of love."
-
///Start OOC
Ah, well that explains a lot. Working off the lore, it really sounded like you were roleplaying a political establishment that was completely out of touch with the views and opinions of its constituents. (Not the most uncommon of situations, mind you.) And because of this, it led Darthirâe to do things differently than she would have otherwise. There's no use trying to rally the public around reversing an unpopular decision made by unpopular leaders, when neither is actually unpopular.
And while Hlint's situation can now be seen as clearly against Darthirâe, it makes me happier, because the rejections she's been getting don't seem quite as arbitrary. I'd rather a PC fail in a way that makes sense, than succeed because of artificial GM caprice that makes the world seem unrealistic.
*nods* I've been acting in accordance with current lore (and verified with the writer of same). We (GMs in general) try not to be arbitrary and difficult here just for the sake of doing so. It sort of robs the fun for everyone.
One more OOC question: I stated that "millions of people died the last decade", and that "Hlint could have easily been wiped from the map, if not for adventurers". This brought the following response:
Isn't that what you said above though? "[M]illions upon millions of people died of starvation from crop failures, from increased predation from animals and other hostile creatures and from bandits seeking to take for themselves."
Is there something I'm missing?
Yes, or rather a misunderstanding, and I refer you to the Timeline (http://lore.layonara.com/The%20Layonara%20Timeline) again.
2] Millions of people have died in the last decade.
I spoke of the Dark Ages, you spoke of the last decade. The Dark ages spanned from 1402 until 1420, and has been over for 30 years now. Those high numbers of deaths during that time are attributed to that time, and since the ending of that time, everything has rebounded, some things being tougher than ever, of course.
More importantly though, it sounds like at least for the residents of Hlint, they are entirely unaware of how much they depend on adventurers for their safety. And on this, I am again going to have to depend on a gameworld assumption that this is actually true. So if her little speech below says things that are clearly false (but haven't been stated as such in the lore), assume she didn't make it.
Well, if that is Darthirâe's opinion, I will not dissuade you.
Hlint is a town with a population of about 1500, with some regular guard and a volunteer militia. They do not, typically, see attacks from outside anymore. As was stated, the last major threat to life (unless I missed one somewhere) was the Dark Ages. It sounds like the assumption is that Hlintites are too ignorant and/or stubborn to see what's "best" for them, which in actuality is far from the truth. They just prefer to see to themselves.
I also assume Darthirâe is speaking to Calise, the human administrator of the Ilsare temple, and presumably the one who has control over the temple's vote in the council.
//// END OOC
Correct.
Now, givien the above clarifications, if you wish to leave the petition/monologue/speech/dissertation/whatever-you-want-to-call-it as it is, let me know and I will respond. If not, feel free to rewrite.
-
It sounds like the assumption is that Hlintites are too ignorant and/or stubborn to see what's "best" for them, which in actuality is far from the truth. They just prefer to see to themselves.
Far from the truth? How specifically? In Darthirâe's monologue, she states the following facts:[LIST=1]
- The Hlinitites do not respect adventurers.
- Adventurers kill literally thousands of Hlint's adversaries before they come even close to the road, Hlint's fields, or the city walls.
- If adventurers are ever called south to deal with daylight vampires or the Dragonstealers, their service to Hlint in ridding it of enemies may decline dramatically.
- The goblin population would, in this circumstance, pose a serious threat.
- Hlint (and Fort Llast and Haven) would be better prepared for such an eventuality if a city in the north had the ability to manufacture and maintain weaponry by itself (like Hlint).
Since you say this is "far from the truth", one of these "facts" stated above must be wrong. As the LORE is in flux (for example, Hlint is still listed as a monarchy), I don't know what is true, and what is not true. So it is extremely difficult not to get blindsided by things that are not posted.
I am relying on you to tell me exactly where Darthirâe is objectively wrong in with her facts.
I would also like an explanation for how a city which has recently been overrun, and thus presumably understands that security threats are real, comes to the conclusion that it is OK to proverbially (or literally) spit on its defenders, and decline cost-free outside aid that would save the lives of its own citizens.
This type of behavior simply does not square with historical precident, so either there is some other fact you are not telling me, or this is just GM fiat ("they hate you - no reason given").
-
OK, I think we're confusing each other a bit. And unless I'm mistaken, what you've written below seems to indicate that Darthirâe will speak her monologue to Calise as given. So first to address the response and then the monologue.
Far from the truth? How specifically? In Darthirâe's monologue, she states the following facts:[LIST=1]
- The Hlinitites do not respect adventurers.
- Adventurers kill literally thousands of Hlint's adversaries before they come even close to the road, Hlint's fields, or the city walls.
- If adventurers are ever called south to deal with daylight vampires or the Dragonstealers, their service to Hlint in ridding it of enemies may decline dramatically.
- The goblin population would, in this circumstance, pose a serious threat.
- Hlint (and Fort Llast and Haven) would be better prepared for such an eventuality if a city in the north had the ability to manufacture and maintain weaponry by itself (like Hlint).
1. Yes they do, they just don't really want their kind of "trouble" in town any more than it absolutely needs to be, and further, they'd (currently) be perfectly happy if they could just be left alone.
2. Your basic assumption here is that there's some massive army poised to converge on Hlint at any moment, only held at bay by relatively minuscule population of adventurers. Is this essentially correct? If so, that's really not the case.
3. Let's be honest. Most adventurers are not "protecting Hlint" but "raiding the goblin caves for fun and profit." Goblins would be much more likely to raid caravans along the road than to lay seige to a fortified town. It's just easier, and closer at that. Looking at the map, there are 50-100 miles between Hlint and the Goblin territories. They may be a presence, but they are not a constant threat.
4. Perhaps, assuming they were in a mind to conquer, but that's not typically the threat they represent. It's a threat to commerce along the main roads more than anything.
5. Really not sure where you're going with this one. Placement of craft halls in-game are for balance reasons. It can be assumed that all towns of decent size have the ability to produce such goods to some degree, only they are not facilities open and available to PCs. That's a game build decision and not neccessarily a game world reality.
Since you say this is "far from the truth", one of these "facts" stated above must be wrong. As the LORE is in flux (for example, Hlint is still listed as a monarchy), I don't know what is true, and what is not true. So it is extremely difficult not to get blindsided by things that are not posted.
I've been trying to tell you what is true and what is not. You and/or Darthirâe are free to fill in the gaps as perceptions seem to warrant, but that does not make them right.
I am relying on you to tell me exactly where Darthirâe is objectively wrong in with her facts.
Well, unless I miss my mark, Darthirâe's entire campaign seems to be based on two preconceptions: 1) everyone has a price, and 2) Hlint should welcome all adventurers with open arms despite all the trouble they have caused them over the last several decades (especially prior to and during the Dark Ages).
That's her opinion, but it is not one that is shared by the majority of the town.
She is welcome to stand in the center of town and profess this belief, and she may get a few nodding heads, a lot of indifferent observers (if they even stop at all to listen) and even a few hecklers, some potentially bordering on adversarial.
There is one or two other misconceptions that you and/or Darthirâe may have, but I will cover them below. I'll say though that I'm doing so against my better judgment, as it stands to poison the RP too much, but then, it's almost at its conclusion anyway, by my estimation.
I would also like an explanation for how a city which has recently been overrun, and thus presumably understands that security threats are real, comes to the conclusion that it is OK to proverbially (or literally) spit on its defenders, and decline cost-free outside aid that would save the lives of its own citizens.
Adventurers are not the town's defenders. They are no official body that the town recognizes. They, in general have not been hired, and all of what you are suggesting seems to be that the town should be beholden to adventurers regardless of all other concerns they may have. They're not "spitting" on anyone. They simply want to live a quiet existance, and adventurers, historically, disrupt that quiet to a great degree.
As for "recently overrun", I am not aware of any such instance in recent times, unless there is some quest even that has had such a scenario. Perhaps you can illuminate me on that point.
In any case, one of the misconceptions is that it is "adventurers" that they distrust. More accurate is to say "outsiders," meaning non-residents, strangers and so forth. They don't mind such people passing through peacefully, though they don't necesarily trust them either. You're keen on historical precedent, and so I say that nearly every major trouble the town has had has been due to the influence of those from outside of their borders. As a whole, the town has decided that enough is enough, and they just would rather not have the influece from outsiders that they have had in years past.
The second potential misconception is the nature of the "refusal" that apparently started Darthirâe's fact-finding and crusade. I don't know if this is a result of the RP with Fehriel or not, but he was told,
[INDENT]"We don't need the help or charity of your kind here."
[/INDENT]That is not a "no, we won't bring the device." it's a dismissal due in no small part to Fehriel's "alien" sort of looks. Jakob Halleran is of the mind that such a gift would bring influence, and that is the last thing that he thinks the town needs: further influence of troublesome (his opinion) outsiders.
This type of behavior simply does not square with historical precident, so either there is some other fact you are not telling me, or this is just GM fiat ("they hate you - no reason given").
Whose historical precedent?
As for why there was such a reaction to Fehriel and a lesser such reaction to Darthirâe for the simple fact that she's "not from around here". That's it. That's the whole reason. They're not turning people away at the gate, but they'd prefer outsiders to their business and move along.
So, to offer you a summary of the facts as I have given them throughout:
- Hlint is currently xenophobic...period. The happenings in the past are not lost on them, but as a sum-total sort of game, the town as a whole believes that outsiders are more trouble than their worth, and they just want to be left to a quiet, peaceful existance.
- Hlint is capable of defending itself against most incidental threats it may face. No, it could not withstand a raiding army, but that just isn't common. A raiding party though of goblins or orcs or whatever could easily enough be turned back
- The town council, and in fact the vast majority of townspeople would sooner cut off their own arms than to sell out their principles and endanger the town by accepting bribes, "gifts" or what have you, giving non-residents a foothold of influence and political power. They've managed just fine for the last 30 years and they're happy with that.
- If need be, they can call on the resources of Trelania, the kingdom in which Hlint is located.
If Darthirâe does not wish to accept these core concepts, that's perfectly fine, but it may lead to her frustration and/or confusion. Smooth words and well thought-out arguments won't sway everyone. These people are not stupid or ignorant, but they do have a pride in their town and a want to keep it quiet and peaceful. I know you would argue that it's adventurers who can do that, but they do not see it that way, and until someone tells me differently, that is how they will be portrayed.
Calise's response will follow in the next post.
-
"In truth," Darthirâe says, "I am not looking to change the attitudes of the entire town. The people here support their leaders in part because they trust them to spend time they themselves do not have to learn of the issues, and be wiser than they about decision making. So if I can persuade the leaders, then that should be good enough."
"And that, necessarily, starts here. For if I cannot persuade the church of Ilsare, who remain the most enlightened of all the residents of Hlint, I doubt I'll be able to make much headway elsewhere. And if I do persuade you, I will need your aid in approaching the other council members."
"So let me begin by giving you information I am certain many people do not know. The reason why patrolling the roads and escorting caravans on a regular basis is not very 'adventurey', is because it is boring. And it is boring because it is safe. It is safe, however, not because goblins have ceased their war against the surface races. That war continues today. However, due to the stone bound, that war is fought almost entirely inside enemy territory, in the caverns themselves."
"And bloody that war is, indeed. It is said that Ilsarians appreciate both intellectual argument and drama, so let me dramatize the situation intellectually. While I do not look like the classic hard-bitten adventurer, my soul too is stone-bound. In the course of the last three years I have, with my magics, killed in excess of two hundred and fifty red light goblins, including one of their leaders - who, through use of traps and other techniques, I assassinated by myself alone in the caves. And I know at least twenty other people, including Fehriel, who could claim at least that amount."
"Now multiply that out. And ask yourself where would Hlint be without the stone bound. That is at least 20 times 250, or 5000 goblin warriors that are not present to lay ambushes on your roads, burn your fields, or kill your citizens. I understand that you are proud of your local guards. But do you honestly think they could withstand such a hoarde if they were left alone long enough to organize and attack?"
"Further, that is not the only danger. Recently there was a greater portal that opened, out of which poured greater undead. I got a look at it myself, and I do not exaggerate at all to say that it looked like it offered direct transferrence straight out of the Hells of Corath himself. Black magic swirled about both it and its guardian. I do not know who managed to close it, or how, but whoever did kept Hlint viable."
"In short, as I see it, venturers are victims of their own success. If they did less good of a job at keeping danger far away, then quirks or no, they would be respected more."
"I do not say these things to suggest that you should throw yourself prostrate at the feet of those of us who have risked the bindstone ritual. I say it as a warning. Right now, Hlint's crier yells news of threats to the south to deaf ears - for that is nearly half a year of travel away except by portal, and no one here can imagine such troubles could come this far. Yet if Fort Vehl or Port Hempstead truly falls under threat, it is nearly certain that most of the stone bound will leave to meet it. And then, little Hlint will finally have what its citizens think they wish for: to be truly alone, without these troublesome and scary people who constantly come to town to wash their clothes clean of goblin and orc blood, and also their own."
"I cannot promise you this will not happen. But I can say that if it does, you'd better be well stocked with bandages and advanced weapons. It will not take long at all for the goblins to be at your gates."
Calise ends up politely requesting that Darthirâe pause in her talking due to her need to attend to some temple matter or other that is brought to her. Other than that, she is generally attentive and polite. She gives nods of acknoledgment to some things, apparent agreement on some things and a furrowed brow to others. She doesn't speak much except to politely excuse herself and apologize for interrupting.
"Which brings me to the subject of the Gnomish Device. When the worshippers of Baeron Ca'Duz attacked, they destroyed as much as they could of Hlint's crafting mechanisms. Do you recognize why this was done?
"The answer is that it was done as a 'sting' - the bite a spider gives prey that it would normally be too big to take itself. The point is not to kill, but to weaken and withdraw, to allow the poison to take hold. In this case though, the 'sting' is that of inferior weaponry. Already, as a result of that attack, both the captains of both Fort Llast and Haven have had to rely on adventurers to help keep their armorys stocked, because absent the means to make or repair their own, they are utterly dependent on outsiders who import them from elsewhere across the presently safe roads."
Before she can respond to the bit about the device, she seems somewhat befuddled by the dark elf reference, though ultimately decides to just hear Darthirâe out.
"And yet again, if those roads cease to be safe, you lose access to that weaponry. Imagine that hoarde of goblins at your gates with little more than bent swords and rocks to use against them."
"In short, I completely agree with the residents of Hlint who wish to be independent. But that independence will be aided, not harmed, by including devices that allow manufacture and maintenance of your own means of defense. That is why it is smart for your council to put your pride aside, and accept this gift, whether or not you like the giver."
"Oh, and I'd suggest you consider building your walls higher too. Just in case. And practice your archery. Not all arrows need be ones of love."
When Darthirâe appears finished, Calise gives a friendly smile and speaks in a pleasant voice.
"Dear, you really are quite driven on this, though I am not quite sure why. I don't disagree that this town could be a little less resistant to such gestures, but they have their ways and rightly so. I am only one voice of eight, but this is also my home.
"To be honest, I'm a touch confused...so much passion about a piece of equipment," she says with a smile. "I do wish you luck on your campaign though. Perhaps level heads will see a way to be less resistant to such things. But if I could offer you a bit of advice dear...
"You come off a bit strong, and your words seem angled to incite fear and doubt. I know this town. It is my home. Fear will lead them to drive you out before they will embrace you with open arms. Telling people how they should be grateful to the adventuring sort will not be very effective. If you want to win trust, you'll need to forget such notions and let them see a peaceful presence, not one that wishes to come in and change things to suit a different ideal.
"I have to admit, I was not sure where you were going with all of this talk but...if you're talking about the public smithy..." she says, giggling a bit. "Well dear, that's not the council's decision. That place is owned by the Xin's, and has been for generations."
-
///Start OOC
Your basic assumption here is that there's some massive army poised to converge on Hlint at any moment, only held at bay by relatively minuscule population of adventurers. Is this essentially correct? If so, that's really not the case.
My basic assumption, perhaps incorrectly inferred from the respawn mechanics, is that the Red Light goblins are very prolific in their breeding, and if ever they were left alone, could easily raise such an army within a year. I also assume that the red light caverns have thousands of crevices in which the goblins can live but cannot be followed, and so this ability to quickly reconstitute themselves will always remain.
And yes, minuscule in numbers or not, my assumption is also that those whose souls are bound to bindstones, who thus have a significantly reduced fear of death, are the ones who have an enormous impact on the population of goblin warriors. I'm just getting this from the in-game number of combat victories of PCs.
Perhaps, assuming they were in a mind to conquer, but that's not typically the threat they represent. It's a threat to commerce along the main roads more than anything.
OK, this is good. I am now getting a clearer understanding of the real situation.
You are saying that Hlint's perception that they are safe from the Red Goblins is not a misperception: they really aren't threatened. If, say, just half of the goblins that adventurers have killed in the last Layonaran year (perhaps around 1000) were still alive, they would confine themselves to ambushing caravans closest to their territories. They would not burn fields, murder farmers in outlying areas, or lay siege to human settlements. 50-100 miles is two to five days of travel, and that is just too far for goblins to walk; they like their caverns.
So the community of Hlint, which has turned inward and sees no need to protect its trade routes, can laugh the threat off. They've never seen a cause and effect relationship between the number of adventurers in the area (or lack thereof) and the number of reported goblin attacks.
Really not sure where you're going with this one. Placement of craft halls in-game are for balance reasons. It can be assumed that all towns of decent size have the ability to produce such goods to some degree, only they are not facilities open and available to PCs. That's a game build decision and not necessarily a game world reality.
And that is definitely something I didn't know. From the description of Hlint, a town of 1500, I expected that if weapons maintenance facilities were not depicted in game, then they simply did not exist - and weapons were only available from traders who brought them in along the roads.
So there is already a Gnomish device in town? If so, this really does tear down a number of Darthirâe's arguments.
Well, unless I miss my mark, Darthirâe's entire campaign seems to be based on two preconceptions: 1) everyone has a price, and 2) Hlint should welcome all adventurers with open arms despite all the trouble they have caused them over the last several decades (especially prior to and during the Dark Ages).
The first preconception was based on the idea that Hlint was a boom town, and people were primarily motivated by economics - as happens in most boom towns. The second preconception was based on the idea that the Red Light goblins are actually a threat - that children are told not to play too far beyond the walls, that every one in town knows of at least someone (maybe a traveller) who died to goblin raiders - and while those deaths may be statistically insignificant, such as the palestinian attacks against israel, they are taken seriously and invite disproportionate response.
It sounds as if both of these preconceptions are factually false in the game world. The orcs and goblins that seem so close and threatening, are really not. Hlint gets no real protection from adventurers, only problems. And they're looking for hidden motivations from any act of charity, no matter how seemingly benign.
I know you would argue that it's adventurers who can do that, but they do not see it that way, and until someone tells me differently, that is how they will be portrayed.
That's fine. There are plenty of times in history when an accurate warning was made to a community or nation that was ignored due to pride or stubbornness. And when it comes in terms of going to, or not going to, war (for example, various Democrats warning against Bush's war of choice in Iraq, or Churchill warning to take Hitler seriously in Germany), that can be a costly mistake indeed.
I just want to separate out whether Darthirâe is making an accurate warning which is being ignored by the townspeople in game, or whether I am myself, not understanding the world correctly. I've repeatedly gotten mixed signals about this, which is one of the reasons why I've been pushing so hard at it.
Again, I have fun whether or not my PC succeeds; but I don't have fun when I have to back out a whole bunch of RP because what seemed like perfectly reasonable assumptions - things that my PC would know but I didn't - were incorrect. That's why I keep asking for clarification. I'm not doing it to bug you.
///End OOC
- - -
Somewhat dejected, Darthirâe will make her way to the Tobur Xin Smithy, and just sit around for a while. Among other things, she is trying to figure out whether it even makes sense to site a Gnomish Device here. Is there room? Does such a thing make undue noise? She will also look at the people coming in. How many of them are local vs outsiders?
If someone she knows, like Vrebel, comes in, she will greet them. But other than that, she will be quietly pensive, reflecting on the utter alieness of the surface races, and how little she still understands them.
-
As Darthirâe lingers around the smithy, she sees a slightly grumbly blacksmith, along with a couple others, unpacking something from crate. From what can be seen (and as close as they'll allow her to get, citing a need for space to work), it's difficult to tell what it may be.
http://forums.layonara.com/wild-surge-inn/232972-heard-around-wild-surge.html
// Had to call this to a close for obvious reasons. I will debrief the rest later when I have time.
-
Now, for this response and a debrief to follow.
///Start OOC
My basic assumption, perhaps incorrectly inferred from the respawn mechanics, is that the Red Light goblins are very prolific in their breeding, and if ever they were left alone, could easily raise such an army within a year. I also assume that the red light caverns have thousands of crevices in which the goblins can live but cannot be followed, and so this ability to quickly reconstitute themselves will always remain.
And yes, minuscule in numbers or not, my assumption is also that those whose souls are bound to bindstones, who thus have a significantly reduced fear of death, are the ones who have an enormous impact on the population of goblin warriors. I'm just getting this from the in-game number of combat victories of PCs.
*nods* There may be validity to this, and there may not. It is, in some part, a necessity of an online world to have effectively limitless enemies. Translating that into an IC sense, it's entirely possible that adventurers and hunters keep the goblin population in check. It's also possible that if their population got too large, they'd have food shortages, extra disease, etc., which would likewise limit the population. Who knows?
In Hlint's history, goblin raids on the town itself have been rare, suggesting it would take extreme circumstances to get them to venture out from their caves to take a chance at laying seige to a town.
OK, this is good. I am now getting a clearer understanding of the real situation.
You are saying that Hlint's perception that they are safe from the Red Goblins is not a misperception: they really aren't threatened. If, say, just half of the goblins that adventurers have killed in the last Layonaran year (perhaps around 1000) were still alive, they would confine themselves to ambushing caravans closest to their territories. They would not burn fields, murder farmers in outlying areas, or lay siege to human settlements. 50-100 miles is two to five days of travel, and that is just too far for goblins to walk; they like their caverns.
So the community of Hlint, which has turned inward and sees no need to protect its trade routes, can laugh the threat off. They've never seen a cause and effect relationship between the number of adventurers in the area (or lack thereof) and the number of reported goblin attacks.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with the last paragraph. They see that keeping to themselves for the most part and keeping out the (by their perception) disruptive influences of outsiders. Sure they see value in trade routes being kept open, but that's outside of town, not inside.
And that is definitely something I didn't know. From the description of Hlint, a town of 1500, I expected that if weapons maintenance facilities were not depicted in game, then they simply did not exist - and weapons were only available from traders who brought them in along the roads.
So there is already a Gnomish device in town? If so, this really does tear down a number of Darthirâe's arguments.
Well yes, there's a perception difficulty when one can cross the continent in 15 minutes and an entire town of 1500 people can be depicted in an 80x80 meter grid (if I remember correctly).
The town has multiple smithys, but only one of them is depicted in-game. Likewise, there are more than one blacksmith, and one of those is on the town council (and neither is physically represented in-game). The list goes on, but there is of course the necessity to represent what is of mechanical and thematic importance and sacrifice those (typically) small details that are important to backstory but simply will not fit.
As for a Tinker's Device, no, there was not a mechanical or RP Tinker's Device in town before this last update. It's of course important to note that the Tinker's Device would not significantly improve the town's ability to defend itself, as smithing facilities already existed. The device would aid in the crafting of arrowheads and sling bullets (Well, other stuff, but as far as those things primarily critical to town defense, that would be the prime uses).
The first preconception was based on the idea that Hlint was a boom town, and people were primarily motivated by economics - as happens in most boom towns. The second preconception was based on the idea that the Red Light goblins are actually a threat - that children are told not to play too far beyond the walls, that every one in town knows of at least someone (maybe a traveller) who died to goblin raiders - and while those deaths may be statistically insignificant, such as the palestinian attacks against israel, they are taken seriously and invite disproportionate response.
Yeah, it was, and I can understand how you would also have that perception, as that's what's available. Unfortunately, because our world is so large, it has a lot of lore and a lot of changes have happened over the last 100 or so game years, which unfortunately have not yet been fully pushed out to the general public.
It sounds as if both of these preconceptions are factually false in the game world. The orcs and goblins that seem so close and threatening, are really not. Hlint gets no real protection from adventurers, only problems. And they're looking for hidden motivations from any act of charity, no matter how seemingly benign.
Oh, Hlint does get some degree of protection from the efforts of adventurers, but it's a secondary effect in most cases. And it's not so much that they're actively looking for hidden motives but rather that they're generally suspicious of outsiders. It's a subtle but important difference.
That's fine. There are plenty of times in history when an accurate warning was made to a community or nation that was ignored due to pride or stubbornness. And when it comes in terms of going to, or not going to, war (for example, various Democrats warning against Bush's war of choice in Iraq, or Churchill warning to take Hitler seriously in Germany), that can be a costly mistake indeed.
Without even coming anywhere near the political implications in such a statement (and I will actively edit any discussion that turns to RL politics), I'm not sure if you're still trying to convince me or not, but it's really not important here. There's generally a hubris of belief on both sides of any issue. Hlintites are convinced their current mindset is correct, just as Darthirâe is convinced she is right. Who is really right? Well, that's for history to decide.
I just want to separate out whether Darthirâe is making an accurate warning which is being ignored by the townspeople in game, or whether I am myself, not understanding the world correctly. I've repeatedly gotten mixed signals about this, which is one of the reasons why I've been pushing so hard at it.
What I think is at work here, in part, is that you and/or Darthirâe find the mindset of Hlint rather "alien" and atypical. They are also not as head-in-the-sand as you/she may think. I'm including you both as I don't know whose perceptionsare at work here.
Darthirâe's "warning" may well be accurate. It may predict some future that may yet come to pass, at which point, it will be a perfect "I told you so" moment. On the other hand, it may not, and by preparing for those relatively minor threats that they may see from time to time, the residents and rulers of Hlint may well find themselves adequately protected against any credible and likely threats.
Remember that while they have surely heard of the Cult's activities, it's still something that's thousands of miles away, and something which may never find its way to them.
The last point I'll state on this is that in the past, adventurers have, in fact, helped repell attacks by dark elves on Hlint. At the same time, adventurers failed to protect Prantz from falling to Lord Rael's forces. So they, as a group, are not perfect, nor are they some infallible protective force. Hlint simply prefers, for the moment, to take their chances with the resources they have.
Again, I have fun whether or not my PC succeeds; but I don't have fun when I have to back out a whole bunch of RP because what seemed like perfectly reasonable assumptions - things that my PC would know but I didn't - were incorrect. That's why I keep asking for clarification. I'm not doing it to bug you.
///End OOC
Yep, I understand, and the one comment I would make here is that you seem to see lots of possibilities and are able to take a situation and extrapolate it. These are good things of course, but what has happened is that you go too far ahead of yourself but asking extra questions based on the assumption on what the answers will be. So yes, that results in a lot of going back and having to re-react to situations. So my generalized suggestion is to approach such investigations at a more gradual pace. It may end up in less time spent for the same results.
In any case, I hope overall it was illuminating into this little corner of the world.
-
// OOC
To everyone involved with this, thank you for your contributions and RP.
And as for what happened here:
An adventurer with low Charisma and red eyes came to the xenophobic Hlint and made a reasonable request. The request was not denied outright, but rather he was told that the town didn't need help from those like him.
In short, there could have been a better ambassador. ;)
Now, how Fehriel has handled it in his RP, and how others have followed up, has been great and hopefully accurate to their characters and how they would handle the situation.
It has been interesting and hopefully illuminating to everyone participating and just observing.
In the end though, adding a Tinker's Device to the Xin Smithy was not a decision for the town to make but rather the current proprietor of the smithy itself.
So, for those curious about why I added this device in the last update...
When Fehriel made the request in an IC manner, I handled it in an IC manner. Had Hellblazer made this same request in the "Suggestions" forum, I would have thought, "Hmm, good point. OK in for the next update."
And that's effectively what I did, as I had it added to the module sometime between Fehriel's leaving town and Darthirâe beginning her investigations. Of course, revealing this OOCly would have brought an abrupt end to the RP, and so I let it continue.
It was a fine effort by all involved, and so again, thank you.
-
//thanks for the update dorg, not sure how long it will take for feh to actually take the time to change his mind about that town, if he ever does. But then again, only fools don't change their mind when there is a contradictory evidence to a belief.
-
There is a polite knock on the door and a medium sized man enters the room at the request of the occupant. He removes his head gear showing a receding hairline on an all too human head and re-introduces himself as Xaltotun, not expecting the man to remember him.
He tells Jakob Halleran that he has come into some unexpected money from a new business venture, and asks if the town council has no objections, could he approach the owner of the smithy to talk about building a tinkering section to the smithy. He further intimates he would be more than happy to help fund such a venture, for say, a percentage of the revenue, or a bench with his name on it. He adds, 'Assuming the costs are within reason, of course.'
He politely awaits Jakob's response before bowing slightly and taking his leave.
-
As Darthirâe lingers around the smithy, she sees a slightly grumbly blacksmith, along with a couple others, unpacking something from crate. From what can be seen (and as close as they'll allow her to get, citing a need for space to work), it's difficult to tell what it may be.
With typical extended elvish patience, Darthirâe watches in silence as the workmen uncrate the equipment and begin the complicated assembly.
She would not interrupt, but if ever any of the workmen doing the construction asked her what she was doing, she would simply say "Trying to figure out what it is that you're putting in, and what it does." She is adept at many things, but detailed mechanical knowledge is not one of them.
To any explanation, she would listen to avidly.
-
*Phobo went to the crafting house and found the new tinker's device*
Oh, that's nice.
I shall thanks Hlint people for this.