[yailwap]
I admit I only skimmed some of the replies because I'm on lunch at work, but I'd just like to kind of mildly add that I believe that levels matter in the sense of there being a balance to how much it matters. I think if you have a level 40 fighter or something, then why should they be doomed to "who is that guy?" or "we'd rather have the level 23 terribly built fighter take care of this horde" ?
Like I said, there is a balance - it's not about builds or how many levels you have, and certainly there is a lot of influence to be gained without ever leveling at all. I always wondered what was so great about RP XP anyway, because I have always found it odd for, say, my martial character to level by sitting on benches. Or my caster to level by gossiping about who is dating whom. Can they have influence without ever leveling? Oh yeah, absolutely. I will completely vouch for that on several different levels, both as someone who has been there at lower levels, been out at higher levels, and witnessed some low leveled characters become known for some pretty cool things. I got used in DM quests when Acacea was probably level 10 or less just straight out of social influence. Now she's level 36 and isn't used at all. It's all perception. Time available is probably the most valued currency, heh.
But on the flip side, I have also seen high leveled characters mostly bulldozed over in quest situations because they don't spend enough time on a bench - it's one thing to not be renowned for saving cities and whatnot, or owning guilds, or having networks of spies, but I dislike when we start implying, for example, that Amanda is a less powerful wizard than someone else, just because her player doesn't think her influence level is that high. She is a caster. She has spell levels and DCs. If she is powerful, then she is powerful! Don't bring down people who are good at what they do just to put people who maybe aren't on a pedestal, you know? (Sorry Lynn, just replying to your earlier example.)
WLs are not better at everything in a class, and really often don't even compete in at least a few areas. Take a couple in an arena, heh - some will wipe the floor with you, others will never let themselves be put there in the first place ;) Some are not even made to compete - they are made to be different, and their trials and influences have allowed that to be a workable difference. It's okay and good for people to be impressed by sheer competence in a non-WL, y'know? All time spent is an investment, there's no reason to get all mad when someone has a high skill check and it seems unfair because they're not "really epic."
And while you can gain a lot of influence regardless of level (I think of it as just being horizontal progress), it is an unfortunate fact that right now social skills scale with level, and time spent talking it up will never help you solve problems of the cosmos... and you can't sub for WL until level 20, as mentioned, and CDQs do not give XP. You CAN level solely through quests and bench RP, but that gets into an old and tired discussion heh.
It may not be a direct response, but I kind of feel it's relevant because I've seen this whole "you're higher level but you better know you have less influence!" kind of who has the bigger uh... staff... comparing that just seems pointless. Giving a nod to people that DO have epic abilities regardless of WL status doesn't bring down the people with the title, and if it does then you are doing something wrong with your WLs.
It also sucks to see people scaling up DCs all the time to match so that things people could give a hand in 15 levels ago are still difficult, mind blowing challenges, or information is just whoa so uber secret you can't possibly know it, y'know? The broken magic areas for example have some astoundingly high DCs that no one can co-op on... and I can't imagine even a Lucindite trying to tackle those on their own - it's part of their whole doctrine, but there is no opportunity to involve others, just hope you can do it solo (and that should be seriously unlikely for everyone but Storold).
To end a very long and rambly post, an example comes to mind when Acacea was asked to find someone quite difficult to find via magic. Because of a key factor she was aware of, she felt that she was capable, but that she did not have the skill to remain undetected and thus would be endangering both herself and the party sought.
She advised the help of two casters - both had epic levels, one was a WL and the higher level one was not. She was experienced with the sheer ability of the latter and felt they had the capability needed, but was not as experienced directing the ability in that fashion. The WL she felt had decades of experience in creative casting and study, and would be more than able to come up with a way to hide them. Between the two of them she thought it would be super solid.
Whether or not it was a good idea or not, the only real point is that abilities are abilities. There is room for everyone and we are without need to downgrade. In fact, I believe that it is WLs who should be approaching a lot of these people for the dual purposes of helping themselves and also involving others.
All done!
[/yailwap]
brought to you by an unposted lunch hour.