The World of Layonara

NWN Discussions and Suggestions => NWN Ideas, Suggestions, Requests => Topic started by: Ravemore on December 01, 2009, 01:45:42 AM

Title: Hlint
Post by: Ravemore on December 01, 2009, 01:45:42 AM
LOL, this probably will give Dorg a heart attack after the last prolonged discussions about tweaking Hlint, but I couldn't help myself. ;)

I was driving on the freeway today and was pining for the days when Hlint was a hub of activity and roleplay. I of course know the people of Hlint are more than happy to be rid of troublemaking adventurers and am familiar with all of the reasons behind those feelings. Anyway, I was just thinking it would be sort of cool considering all of the destruction caused by tidal forces if the opportunity was taken somehow to shift things in the direction of how they used to be with a little town having all of the craft halls and other things that would cause us to gather in one particular area more often. Perhaps some sort of additional plot twist in the campaign... It was a lot of fun logging on at any point and time and having several people waiting right there to RP, or putting together expeditions, etc. I guess this is a little more like grasping at some nostalgia than a real suggestion, but what the heck. :rolleyes: And yes, I know all the arguments for doing what was done before as well, which were, and in some ways still are valid.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: jrizz on December 01, 2009, 02:04:18 AM
Again a post that I wish I could press the "thank you" button ten times for!
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Masterjack on December 01, 2009, 07:14:23 AM
I personally like the idea. I do not think it will be the same as before. Hlint is an area for levels 14ish and under. With the mass amounts of people rushing to get to level 20, Hlint would still be empty.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: cbnicholson on December 01, 2009, 08:21:51 AM
I disagree, Masterjack.  There are plenty of older and newer players who have characters less than 14th that imo would find Hlint a perfect place to 'hang out' if it had more crafting available.  I'm with Ravemore on this, but then I'm nostalgic too. :D
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Hellblazer on December 01, 2009, 11:39:25 AM
one word, amen.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Honora on December 01, 2009, 01:52:28 PM
I agree.  Port Hempstead is just too large.
 
Part of what made Hlint work was the comfortable size, the spontaneity; at the right camera angle you could see most of the people in the zone, and by zone, I mean "by the bank". Those benches provided a perfect Cheers-like atmosphere. I looked forward to logging in to Hlint.
 
 It is not the same. On those occasions I log Genna or Honora in it's a ghost town even if the server is busy. I might see someone making the long run from the bank through a transition to the next zone then through that transition to the hall itself, or making whatever transitions to the docks or their homes. But there is no central gathering space and no groups sitting around just chatting in Port Hempstead. And let's not even discuss Prantz, which is empty almost always.
 
 Okay, okay, so that's my fault.  But still :)
 
 If Hlint is not to be ever again, then it would help to move the transition to the craft halls off the main fountain area in Port Hempstead? That would increase the traffic in that area. With the splitting up of the home cities, though, I think that's not really going to fully address it. We got realism at the expense of enjoyment.
 
 Another idea is to add Hlint as a portal destination for all the portals, or maybe Stormcrest. That would make it pretty easy for people to end up in a central location to group and hang out.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Pseudonym on December 02, 2009, 02:27:15 AM
I agree. Let's start using it as the default gathering point again. Do we really need Dorg to do anything? I'd have thought where characters hang out could be 99% player driven?
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Ravemore on December 02, 2009, 01:19:15 PM
Well.. I think you're about 75% correct LOL. Unfortunately we have a large crafting player base which requires us to spend large amounts of time in areas that have the correct facilities. I know I have been hanging out more in Hlint myself, but it would create more opportunities for a larger amount of players if they are in the area for other tasks as a coincidence. On another account it would improve the market too. I remember Hlint used to be sort of like a flea market in the past because of the facilities and all of the crafters gathered in one area.

You do have a major point though, we DO have the choice where we hang out.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Script Wrecked on December 03, 2009, 02:56:30 AM
Hanging out is one part, but Hlint will miss out on the incidental foot traffic due to the lack of crafting amenities, the merchant prices, and portal arrivals. Also, the starter quests are focused in and around Hempstead and Vehl.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Hellblazer on December 03, 2009, 03:26:50 AM
I have to admit that each time I walk down Hlint there is a sense of nostalgia. There hasn't been the same feeling to any other place, not even the crossroad, as there was back then in Hlint. Where you could truly spend hours just rping with a lot of people at once, or consecutively, because every one just stumbled on each other there. Even though there was craft halls in other cities.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Dorganath on December 03, 2009, 09:05:51 AM
Quote from: Pseudonym
I agree. Let's start using it as the default gathering point again. Do we really need Dorg to do anything? I'd have thought where characters hang out could be 99% player driven?

I agree, in concept!  :)

However...

Quote from: Script Wrecked
Hanging out is one part, but Hlint will miss out on the incidental foot traffic due to the lack of crafting amenities, the merchant prices, and portal arrivals. Also, the starter quests are focused in and around Hempstead and Vehl.

This, and generally the point about density of "amenities" and such in Hempstead as opposed to how Hlint was, is likely the reason, meaning there is a choice over lingering in one place versus dashing between craft halls/merchants/etc.

Hlint was a high-traffic area, and now it's not.  In truth, it's probably not appropriate for it to be one again (lore and other reasons). That's not to say an old-Hlint-like area couldn't be established, of course.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Lynn1020 on December 03, 2009, 09:32:16 AM
But it seems the the destruction that has happened in Hempstead would force many to move else where? Couldn't this be a good time for rebuilding to happen in Hlint?
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Acacea on December 03, 2009, 09:51:16 AM
They are unlikely to move from one kingdom to another, let alone to a little xenophobic town way up the map, and Hlint is unlikely to ever be chosen as another place ever again because of how it has changed as a result of the old days. They don't want people there.

Far more likely than rebuilding other places as a result of Hempstead's disaster, is a rebuilding of Hempstead itself.

It's not Hlint, it's what Hlint had, which is a unified starting area that everything branched out from, and along with that a unified purpose from the moment you set foot there. Hlint isn't going to happen except for player driven hang-out, and they aren't exactly welcome by the populace when they do. But other places - "Hlint-like" as Dorg said, can.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Lynn1020 on December 03, 2009, 10:08:10 AM
Then maybe Hempstead should not be so big?  It is spread out across 4 or 5 screens. Hlint was two?
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: cbnicholson on December 03, 2009, 10:42:03 AM
That's only part of the issue of 'spread outness' the other is that some pcs start in Vehl and are forbidden entry to Hempstead as well.  While an interesting approach in terms of how pc's would start and perhaps should start, this fact hasn't helped what you see in game today at all. I'm not arguing it either way as this has been hashed out in other threads and can see both points of view, simply pointing it out.  My personal feeling is since this restriction is more rp than mechanical other than the start point, I'd like to see it relaxed, not removed.  Some pc's have earned  notoriety and therefore should be excluded from a lawful city after all.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: RollinsCat on December 03, 2009, 11:04:49 AM
Then looking at all the responses below why not add two-way transitions to Stromcrest and the crafting halls.  One to the magic hall and back, one to the regular craft hall and back and one to the 10+ hall and back.  Maybe even a little group of merchants in Stormcrest like a traveling caravan so you can get your tanning oil and axes right there.

It might affect the cities, sure but it would get everyone in one place which would make us bards happy.  It's not like there are tons of people in Hemp anyway.  It's depressing to sing to an empty city.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: cbnicholson on December 03, 2009, 11:44:43 AM
I have a simple suggestion.  What about a small open market outside the gates of Hemp? It could use the area outside the gates by the pond with perhaps a second gate into the city - a Merchants Gate.  Its a highly trafficked area already, it simply needs a bit more to keep players there.  The concept is historically accurate as this was quite common in city states where merchants, mercenaries companies, and other trades would set up just outside a city.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Serissa on December 03, 2009, 02:13:58 PM
Ferrit has set up shop there from time to time--quest chest and ox pack.  There's a decent amount of traffic.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Ravemore on December 03, 2009, 03:47:15 PM
All of the comments have been greatly appreciated. I personally really like the idea of shrinking the city down to two screens and the market idea.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Gulnyr on December 03, 2009, 06:35:42 PM
Does the size of the city really matter?  I know Hemp is big in-game, but it's a big city so it should be big.  The size doesn't seem to be the point, though.  

Consider the main places within the city most people will want to go: the bank, the craft halls, maybe the guild halls.  There is one way into the city, so the main path is going to go from the pond, through the gate, wallow around the big eagle a bit, then bearing right around the fountain, through the transition to crafting destinations (yes, I have not included the kitchen).  If there is to be a benchy gathering for RP, isn't that a reasonable place to find it, along that theoretically high-traffic path?  The place to be in Hlint was on the benches by the bank, right?  That was the high-traffic point.  Sitting by the barn in Hlint wasn't going to get the same result.  Does anyone else remember that Hlint had a barn?  hehe

Yet it is rare to find someone sitting along that route in Hemp.  I've had Jennara stand near the little pond to sell pies several times because that seems the best spot for passing traffic, and those times tend to be long, boring, lonely hours punctuated now and then with a few minutes of nice RP.  Maybe Jennara isn't someone people want to RP with for more than a few minutes.  Maybe people would rather be RPing in a more active setting these days rather than just sitting around to RP.  If crafting halls are an important factor for gathering groups, why is Hemp so dead?  Is it not a central crafting location?  Why would anywhere else be any different with a crafting hall?  I'm going off-point here, but I think those are good questions.

My point is that someone has to be the first to stop and sit if there are ever going to be "spontaneous," unplanned gatherings, whether in Hemp or in Hlint or at the Shack or by the portal-entrance at Wayfare or wherever.  There aren't as many players as there once were so it may be a long wait, and maybe that's why no one does it.  I imagine people would rather spend their time in-game accomplishing something and having fun, not sitting their characters alone on benches somewhere waiting and wondering what everyone else is doing wherever they are.  But you have to try to know for sure, right?  If anyone gives it a go, I wish you the very best of luck.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Script Wrecked on December 03, 2009, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: Gulnyr
Does the size of the city really matter?  I know Hemp is big in-game, but it's a big city so it should be big.  The size doesn't seem to be the point, though.  

Consider the main places within the city most people will want to go: the bank, the craft halls, maybe the guild halls.  There is one way into the city(1), so the main path is going to go from the pond, through the gate, wallow around the big eagle a bit, then bearing right around the fountain, through the transition to crafting destinations (yes, I have not included the kitchen).  If there is to be a benchy gathering for RP, isn't that a reasonable place to find it, along that theoretically high-traffic path?  The place to be in Hlint was on the benches by the bank, right?  That was the high-traffic point.  Sitting by the barn in Hlint wasn't going to get the same result.  Does anyone else remember that Hlint had a barn?  hehe

Yet it is rare to find someone sitting along that route in Hemp.  I've had Jennara stand near the little pond to sell pies several times because that seems the best spot for passing traffic, and those times tend to be long, boring, lonely hours punctuated now and then with a few minutes of nice RP.  Maybe Jennara isn't someone people want to RP with for more than a few minutes.  Maybe people would rather be RPing in a more active setting these days rather than just sitting around to RP.  If crafting halls are an important factor for gathering groups, why is Hemp so dead?  Is it not a central crafting location?  Why would anywhere else be any different with a crafting hall?  I'm going off-point here, but I think those are good questions.

My point is that someone has to be the first to stop and sit if there are ever going to be "spontaneous," unplanned gatherings, whether in Hemp or in Hlint or at the Shack or by the portal-entrance at Wayfare or wherever.  There aren't as many players as there once were so it may be a long wait, and maybe that's why no one does it.  I imagine people would rather spend their time in-game accomplishing something and having fun, not sitting their characters alone on benches somewhere waiting and wondering what everyone else is doing wherever they are.  But you have to try to know for sure, right?  If anyone gives it a go, I wish you the very best of luck.


The chance of meeting someone is inversely proportional to the size of the city. The chance of meeting someone is also inversely proportional to the size of the areas. Its quite possible to pass through areas of Hempstead on one side while missing people passing through on the other.

The crafting halls themselves aren't a gathering point. People generally go the the halls to craft. Once they are done, they leave, because there is nothing to keep them there once they are done.

The amenities need to be focused around a central hub (one area) so that all the people that are coming and going to those amenities are bumping into one another. However, if those amenities are spread over numerous areas (however realistic it may be), that isn't going to happen.

The reason the pond isn't a high traffic area as might be expected is because Hempstead doesn't get the portal traffic and it is competing for amenity usage with its nearby rival Vehl.

If you want to encourage people to stop and sit, you have to give them a good chance that their time spent waiting is going to be rewarded. This is even more important with a lower server population.




(1) Ships passage is the other way into Hempstead.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Ravemore on December 03, 2009, 08:01:54 PM
Script Wrecked hit the nail on the head with a +10 mithril warhammer... That is exactly why Hlint worked was because it was a "hub."

I think Honora also had a valid point when she mentioned "We got realism at the expense of enjoyment."

On more thought, Gulnyr you are correct. Shrinking Hempstead is not the solution. A better design though would be nice, and since most of the city is destroyed it seems like now would be an opportune time for that to happen..
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: davidhoff on December 03, 2009, 08:14:04 PM
I really don't go to Hempstead much anymore.  Really, the only reason I go sometimes is to buy healing potions because the girl in the temple likes Tralek.

As a crafter I find Vehl much nicer.  The merchants and bank are much closer to the crafting areas and the arcane tower; the chickens are right there; ship launch is close; corn is nearby; food crafting is close by; skeleton knuckles close by.  I also don't mind taking a boat to Mariners to do my advanced crafting and use the portal at the Inn.  Plus, the pawn usually has money and pays well.  Also, it's welcome to all and usually there are other characters to bump into.

Just my view on it
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Acacea on December 03, 2009, 08:21:00 PM
Quote from: Ravemore
A better design though would be nice, and since most of the city is destroyed it seems like now would be an opportune time for that to happen..


This thread is not the only place that the given opportunity has been brought up at least, heh.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Gulnyr on December 03, 2009, 09:18:41 PM
Quote from: Script Wrecked
The chance of meeting someone is inversely proportional to the size of the city. The chance of meeting someone is also inversely proportional to the size of the areas. Its quite possible to pass through areas of Hempstead on one side while missing people passing through on the other.

That's why I mentioned one path that should have the highest traffic of the various possible paths.  Storold picked a nice bench to listen to the Crier and all, but that side of the fountain doesn't see as much traffic as the other, so maybe not the best side for a sit-and-gather, y'know?

Quote
The crafting halls themselves aren't a gathering point. People generally go the the halls to craft. Once they are done, they leave, because there is nothing to keep them there once they are done.

I didn't say they were.  They weren't in Hlint, either.  Craft halls were mentioned by some as a reason a city would be a good gathering place, though, and if that is the draw of a city, then sitting along a path between the entrance to the city and the craft halls should help you meet people with all the coming to and going from, right?  

Quote
The amenities need to be focused around a central hub (one area) so that all the people that are coming and going to those amenities are bumping into one another. However, if those amenities are spread over numerous areas (however realistic it may be), that isn't going to happen.

In Hlint, the bank was on one end of the two areas, the craft hall and shops on the other, with the smithy and kitchen along the way but still separate (you can't tell who's smithing or cooking without going in to look) and no advanced craft hall at all.  The main difference in Hemp now is that the smithy and kitchen aren't along the same path between the bank and other craft areas, so maybe that could be "better," yeah.  But I did stop my description of the high-traffic path at the AT, since sitting along the gate side or right side of the fountain in the main square or by the pond should give you a good view of anyone coming and going (by land), and them of you.  Coming in the east gate of Hlint to go to the craft hall was no different than coming into Hemp by sea to go to the craft hall; either way, you'd miss any gathering on the high-traffic hot spot.

Quote
The reason the pond isn't a high traffic area as might be expected is because Hempstead doesn't get the portal traffic and it is competing for amenity usage with its nearby rival Vehl.

Which portal traffic?  Since Wayfare is a portal destination and people arriving that way have to pass the pond to enter Hemp, I don't understand what portal destinations have to do with it, unless you mean no one pops up in Hemp and then leaves to go elsewhere, passing people along the way.  And since anyone wanting to go north from Vehl or south to Vehl has to pass that intersection by the pond outside Hemp - ignoring ship travel, of course - I don't understand what Vehl competition has to do with it, either .

Quote
If you want to encourage people to stop and sit, you have to give them a good chance that their time spent waiting is going to be rewarded. This is even more important with a lower server population.

The reward is the RP, if I'm reading correctly, like in the good ol' days.  We never got anything more than that for sitting around Hlint.  If we need to toss out extra incentives to get people to RP like they want to, we're in trouble.  I actually don't expect to see anyone sitting, really, because there are fewer players.  There isn't much chance of the reward of RP by just sitting and waiting.  

Quote
(1) Ships passage is the other way into Hempstead.

Right.  I forgot that since I tend to run everywhere.  Still, Hlint had (and has) three entrances, though they are all basically on the same road (the road).


I'm not opposed to something different.  I said a long time ago that the current start locations are nice on paper but don't work out so well in practice.  We just don't have enough players to make it work.  And I'm not sure Hempstead is a great choice for a start location anyway (size being a factor), but that's not a fault in Hempstead itself but in the choice by whoever decided to make it a start location.  No biggy.  I'm not pointing fingers.  I may have made the same choice.  Redesigning Hempstead to have a more defined flow path might help.  Except that I would basically be volunteering someone else to do toolset work (which seems kind of rude), I don't see any reason not to try it.  I'm just not sure there's really a lot of traffic to funnel.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Script Wrecked on December 03, 2009, 10:12:10 PM
Quote from: Gulnyr
That's why I mentioned one path that should have the highest traffic of the various possible paths.  Storold picked a nice bench to listen to the Crier and all, but that side of the fountain doesn't see as much traffic as the other, so maybe not the best side for a sit-and-gather, y'know?


Indeed. But why not go for all traffic rather than most? Particularly with a lower server population.

Quote from: Gulnyr
I didn't say they were.  They weren't in Hlint, either.  Craft halls were mentioned by some as a reason a city would be a good gathering place, though, and if that is the draw of a city, then sitting along a path between the entrance to the city and the craft halls should help you meet people with all the coming to and going from, right?  


As long as the path concentrates foot traffic. As long as there is a reason to linger before/after crafting.

Quote from: Gulnyr
In Hlint, the bank was on one end of the two areas, the craft hall and shops on the other, with the smithy and kitchen along the way but still separate (you can't tell who's smithing or cooking without going in to look) and no advanced craft hall at all.  The main difference in Hemp now is that the smithy and kitchen aren't along the same path between the bank and other craft areas, so maybe that could be "better," yeah.  But I did stop my description of the high-traffic path at the AT, since sitting along the gate side or right side of the fountain in the main square or by the pond should give you a good view of anyone coming and going (by land), and them of you.  Coming in the east gate of Hlint to go to the craft hall was no different than coming into Hemp by sea to go to the craft hall; either way, you'd miss any gathering on the high-traffic hot spot.


I'm getting the impression old Hlint was more of a concentrator than Hempstead, by layout and/or size.

Quote from: Gulnyr
Which portal traffic?


All the "Home Teleportation System" traffic arriving on Mistone.

Quote from: Gulnyr
Since Wayfare is a portal destination and people arriving that way have to pass the pond to enter Hemp, I don't understand what portal destinations have to do with it, ...


Not all the people arriving at Wayfare go to or through Hempstead. Having the portal destination in Hempstead would ensure they do.

Quote from: Gulnyr
 And since anyone wanting to go north from Vehl or south to Vehl has to pass that intersection by the pond outside Hemp - ignoring ship travel, of course - I don't understand what Vehl competition has to do with it, either .


Because Vehl has crafting amenities, they don't have to go to Hempstead to craft.

Quote from: Gulnyr
The reward is the RP, if I'm reading correctly, like in the good ol' days.  We never got anything more than that for sitting around Hlint.  If we need to toss out extra incentives to get people to RP like they want to, we're in trouble.  I actually don't expect to see anyone sitting, really, because there are fewer players.  There isn't much chance of the reward of RP by just sitting and waiting.  


People aren't getting rewarded with RP for the time they spend waiting; they're just waiting.

Quote from: Gulnyr
I'm not opposed to something different.  I said a long time ago that the current start locations are nice on paper but don't work out so well in practice.  We just don't have enough players to make it work.  And I'm not sure Hempstead is a great choice for a start location anyway (size being a factor), but that's not a fault in Hempstead itself but in the choice by whoever decided to make it a start location.  No biggy.  I'm not pointing fingers.  I may have made the same choice.  Redesigning Hempstead to have a more defined flow path might help.  Except that I would basically be volunteering someone else to do toolset work (which seems kind of rude), I don't see any reason not to try it.  I'm just not sure there's really a lot of traffic to funnel.


We can only work with what we've got, and provide the incentive for the people that are here to keep being here and for the new people to hang around long enough to become apart of things.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Gulnyr on December 03, 2009, 10:57:41 PM
What I'm saying is I don't think there's much traffic in Hemp at all at any given time, anyway.  Even if you funnel it all (rather than only most of it) onto one path, that won't make a big difference.  And that waiting around for serendipitous passersby isn't worth the wait because there are too few people playing, not because of any mechanical system.  I could be wrong.  If changing Hemp makes things better, awesome.  I won't be mad.  And I don't disagree with what you're saying.  I just don't think the place is the biggest problem.

We players can find ways to get together if we take some initiative.  We've got the player calendar.  We've got the forum.  With a small player population, we shouldn't be trying to rely on random meetings and forced pathing and other outside measures but on what we can do with and for each other.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Script Wrecked on December 03, 2009, 11:05:38 PM
Ah... ;)
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: cbnicholson on December 04, 2009, 09:47:35 AM
Not disagreeing here, Gulnyr..but I've heard in tells many times from new players - Where is everyone?  as they sit alone in Hempstead or Vehl- Not knowing what to do, who to speak to..all of it.  This is a problem..by concentrating players at least in a passing , those new players should get noticed.

I'm as guilty as anyone of not ignoring others, but of simply not having the time to help.  *shrugs* Layo practically needs a receptionist. :D
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Script Wrecked on December 04, 2009, 10:05:13 AM
Something I've seen on other servers is a "where is everyone" functionality(1). That way, if people are congregated somewhere, your character can "just happen to be by".



(1) Yes, there is a possible griefing aspect to this. If this was a problem, perhaps it wouldn't show who, just numbers above a certain amount, and not when people are in private homes, et cetera.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Erik K on December 04, 2009, 10:48:47 AM
somthing that I liked about Hlint, as opposed to Hemp-Vehl, was what I like to call the  "character incubator".  In Hlint, there was a well thought out series of areas to explore and fight or gather CNR's as a new character.   It was the best Ive seen on anyother server Ive gamed on.  It went somthing like this; Sewers-crypts-gobbies-kobolds-swamps-haven.  Solo or in a group of newbies, it was fun and with craftable items in abundance, you could be busy all day long with out time wasting runs back and forth between CNR sites and craft halls.  The biggest short coming of Hlint was the lack of a port.  Hemp-Vehl is not as well developed and as a restricted race, it is even worse.  I can accept that Hlint is not in the running for a new start point, which seems odd, since lore and nonplayer attitudes can be changed with the stroke of a pen.  But it can serve as a template for what ever is.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Dorganath on December 04, 2009, 03:40:56 PM
Quote from: Erik K
I can accept that Hlint is not in the running for a new start point, which seems odd, since lore and nonplayer attitudes can be changed with the stroke of a pen.

Lore and NPC attitudes were changed because Hlint was such a hub and the grief that such hub-ness brought to the little farm town. ;)
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Ravemore on December 04, 2009, 11:22:46 PM
LOL... "Hub-ness"?
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Masterjack on December 05, 2009, 09:34:40 AM
Quote from: Dorganath
Lore and NPC attitudes were changed because Hlint was such a hub and the grief that such hub-ness brought to the little farm town. ;)


Yep I remember the garbage can near the benches being the target for practicing mages. People running into Hlint with a horde of goblins following them. The adventurers got just a little out of hand. Kind of like a small town in the wild west.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Kaail on December 05, 2009, 09:45:52 AM
Quote from: Masterjack
Yep I remember the garbage can near the benches being the target for practicing mages. People running into Hlint with a horde of goblins following them. The adventurers got just a little out of hand. Kind of like a small town in the wild west.


lmao...



What if someone, such as a player, built a crafthall or something?
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Dorganath on December 05, 2009, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: Kaail
lmao...



What if someone, such as a player, built a crafthall or something?

http://forums.layonara.com/rumour-has/230242-fehriel-approaches-hlint-town-council-representative.html?highlight=Fehriel+hlint+council
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Kaail on December 05, 2009, 03:08:26 PM
allright...what if someone bought some land and made one so it was there own private one, which they could let others into instead off offering to buy a tinkers device?
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Dorganath on December 05, 2009, 07:51:25 PM
The purpose of linking that thread was to show the general attitudes of Hlint's residents regarding "outside" influence.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Lord Dark on December 05, 2009, 08:40:09 PM
I remember the first time I was convinced to write up Relyt's bio and play Layo. And I remember first logging in and the dragon was up on something like a stage. I thought it was the coolest thing. And then I went through the conversation with the dragon about server rules and the other beginner information, and suddenly I was in this small, comfy town outside the bindstone beside the Wild Surge Inn. There were people every where and even though I couldn't get into a group because I was a shy player at the time, I still had a lot of fun crafting and designing Relyt's armor, bashing some goblins (they were easier then) and kobolds for ore and gems.

The reason I liked Hlint is because people gathered in the same areas, and everything that you needed was on two different screens. When I came back a year or two ago, everything was encompassed by huge stone walls and there wasn't a place on the ground that wasn't covered in cobblestones, and there was so much space that it didn't feel homey like it does when you go to Hlint.

I'm not sure if that makes sense but good memories of Layo come back when I'm in that little town.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: A-Wizzle on December 06, 2009, 06:02:21 PM
We should make "I <3 Hlint" t-shirts for all those pro-Hlinters out there.

Two cents from the peanut gallery:

A lot of my favorite memories from Layo come from "the benches" in Hlint. Stories from Ozy, the chaos having all the new players around, having everything in one concentrated area, the small-town feel... I miss it all. But let's face it. Hlint just isn't convenient anymore.

Possible solutions:

1. Make Hlint convenient again, i.e. bring in characters to rebuild the craft halls, merchant houses, ect ect. Though this is extremely unlikely and would take much effort from our BFF Dorg.

I'll agree it makes more sense for Hemp/Vehl to be hubs because of their size and location. So what can we do to make them more comfortable and popular?

2. Crunch Port Hempstead together - Redesign the areas, take some out, yadda yadda. Also, taking much effort from the team.

Personally, I like Vehl more.

3. We could all just agree to use it as our new Hlint, and maybe use the pond out front as our "benches" and meeting place or even the docks. Think about it - it's two areas and has most of what Hlint had to offer, including: place to start as a new character, temple, kitchen, merchants, bank, starter quests. Heck, it even has one of those nifty sea ports. :)

Though when all is said and done, we probably will never have another real Hlint unless it is Hlint.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: Nehetsrev on December 08, 2009, 10:11:33 AM
Well, if you're looking for a high-traffic area to set in and wait for others to pass by or stop to RP, I suggest that the best spot on the West server as it stands right now is outside the walls of Port Hempstead, by the little pond there.  One reason for this is due to how the roads run in Mistone.  You can't get to points like Spellgard, Fort Llast, Fort Wayfare, Krandor, Leringard, and even Hlint from Port Hempstead or Fort Vehl on foot without passing through that spot.  That's why whenever I have a PC out to 'set up shop' and sell things (like I used to do with Lyle and his poems), I usually choose that spot there at the 'T' in the road.
 
 So, perhaps what's needed to bring back some of that Hlintish feel are only a couple more benches by the pond, but positioned on the side nearest the road?  Or better still, a couple benches on either side of the road, facing each-other as those in Hlint do.  People like to face each other when conversing, after all.  Granted, folks can still decide to just take a seat in the grass there with the 'sit' emote if they don't mind getting bits of grass and/or dirt on their clothes.  Though personally I'd like to see a couple benches added myself, and maybe even a lamp-post or two to light that intersection and road up to the gates at night too.
 
 I'm rambling now, so I'll quit.  Still, it's what I'd probably do if I were re-designing the area a bit.
Title: Re: Hlint
Post by: G.Giant on December 08, 2009, 10:07:24 PM
Obviously as a casual player/lurker I don't know enough to comment on traffic, but if you remember my suggestions from the "what Layonara needs" thread, I really think a lot more thought needs to go into the new player experience.

No offense, but I don't get the thinking behind the current layout at all.  It's extremely sparse and spread out across the two cities, with no guide to tell you where to go, and with extremely dangerous areas waiting if you don't guess the right path.  The starting quests are kind of tucked away and, really, not all that useful considering the high XP curve; but at the same time there's such little low-level activity it's tough (if not often impossible) to find some reliable friends to party up with.  I know, "get help from established players", but really, what can a level 15 or 20 do to help someone who's level 4 in the long term?  

I don't see a fix without a lot of work...  UNLESS you simply let new characters start at level 7 or so.  Eliminate the need for a starting area altogether and let new characters be able to take an active role in the world.  Considering the stringent character approval process you have (and which can be used to account for those early levels) I think it's a fair suggestion.  Heck, it might make it easier to write those applications, since you don't have to make, say, your wizard a clueless neophyte who only knows a few cantrips.  

This might also encourage more new characters from established players, since they'll be able to hit the ground running instead of spending weeks grinding to get anywhere.
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