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The Layonara Community => Ask A Gamemaster => Topic started by: merlin34baseball on September 16, 2011, 12:39:00 PM

Title: Spell Resistance
Post by: merlin34baseball on September 16, 2011, 12:39:00 PM: Can someone tell me what exactly spell resistance does? I have an item that grants 20 SR. I also have 35 spell craft and had heard that SC adds to spell resistance but don't know how much. So I guess my question is... mechanically what does SR do?

Thanks!
Merlin34
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: Lance Stargazer on September 16, 2011, 12:49:24 PM: This might be useful (http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_resistance)

Basically Spell resistance , renders you inmune to magical effects., the caster has to do a check in order to overcome the DC of your Spell resistance in this case the SR 20 of this . At this point a caster lvl 20 should be able to overcome that SR wthout problem. But the link provided up should give it a bit more explanation

Cheers.

JC / Redeemer
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: Acacea on September 16, 2011, 12:50:53 PM: Spellcraft is different, not adding to resistance but giving you a hand with saving throws. When a spell allows for a save, you get a bonus point for every 5 points of modified SC. So it helps your will, fort, or reflex saves against spells.

Spell resistance, when a spell is affected by it, is a shot to shrug off the spell entirely - when you have any positive number as SR, the caster rolls a d20 + caster level + (spell penetration feats etc) to bypass your SR.

So the caster's DC against the resistance you have from that item would be 20.

((Edit - ninja'ed, what I get for replying from work. Ha))
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Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: Guardian 452 on September 16, 2011, 12:54:32 PM: Things offering SR do not stack do they? Say a shield that has 15 SR and a suit that offers 10 SR. I dont end up with 25 do I? Just the highest one... in this example 15..... right?
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: miltonyorkcastle on September 16, 2011, 01:21:53 PM: Right, they don't stack.
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: Xaltotun on September 16, 2011, 04:13:54 PM: While not a game master, can I add my thoughts on my experience here.

Can I point out that the link Lance refers to may not be actually the case on Layonara (I mention Layo as I am not sure about other servers).

My experience with my sorcerer is that a creature's spell resistance has to overcome my DC rating, but not as explained in the link:

Quote
the caster rolls a d20. To this is added the caster level and the modifier from spell penetration, greater spell penetration, or epic spell penetration (+2, +4, or +6, respectively (http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_resistance)

There seems to be no random d20 roll at all, as the DC ratings for my castings are always the same for the same spell level. What seems to happen instead is the DC is calculated on my level (I presume), plus my bonus for my Charisma (or Int or Wis for a wizard or cleric respectively), PLUS the level of the spell cast.

I say this as I cast a level 9 spell and the DC is always the same; when I cast a level 6 spell spell, the DC is 3 points lower. You also do not seem to increase your DC by one per level either and I have not been able to work out how caster level is actually worked, but suffice to say, the above is my experience of DC vs Spell Resistance.
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: Acacea on September 16, 2011, 04:29:17 PM: It sounds like you are talking about your spell DCs - the DC someone else has to pass in order to save. But I just kind of skimmed and am being unhelpful. It's an unhelpful day.
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: s0ulz on September 16, 2011, 05:30:07 PM: Quote from: Xaltotun
While not a game master, can I add my thoughts on my experience here.

Can I point out that the link Lance refers to may not be actually the case on Layonara (I mention Layo as I am not sure about other servers).

My experience with my sorcerer is that a creature's spell resistance has to overcome my DC rating, but not as explained in the link:

There seems to be no random d20 roll at all, as the DC ratings for my castings are always the same for the same spell level. What seems to happen instead is the DC is calculated on my level (I presume), plus my bonus for my Charisma (or Int or Wis for a wizard or cleric respectively), PLUS the level of the spell cast.

I say this as I cast a level 9 spell and the DC is always the same; when I cast a level 6 spell spell, the DC is 3 points lower. You also do not seem to increase your DC by one per level either and I have not been able to work out how caster level is actually worked, but suffice to say, the above is my experience of DC vs Spell Resistance.

To my knowledge it's unaltered in Layonara.

Therefore, if a spell is subject to spell resistance (noted in the spell's description), it first allows the target of the spell to roll to entirely resist the spell, for which the caster rolls a d20 + caster level + spell penetration feat modifiers versus the targets spell resistance score. Maximum roll a spellcaster can get this way is therefore 66 and having a spell resistance of 67 makes you immune to all spells subject to resistance.

If the spell is not subject to spell resistance or the above roll fails for the target, the target must make a save versus DC as per the spell description, for which the DC calculation is DC = 10 + spell level + ability modifier + feat modifier (spell focus +2, greater spell focus +4 and epic spell focus +6, non-cumulative). Making the save has different results depending on the spell.
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: willhoff on September 16, 2011, 05:31:05 PM: Quote from: Acacea
It sounds like you are talking about your spell DCs - the DC someone else has to pass in order to save. But I just kind of skimmed and am being unhelpful. It's an unhelpful day.

Agreed with Acacea. Xalt seems your talking about how the DC for saves is calculated when a spell is cast at an opponent. Heres the link (http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Difficulty_class) for how DC's are calculated when a spell is cast.

"I say this as I cast a level 9 spell and the DC is always the same; when I cast a level 6 spell spell, the DC is 3 points lower." Xaltotun.

You mention that your DC goes up three when you cast a 9th level spell vs. a 6th level spell which should be correct since the DC goes up one each level of spell. The DC can be changed with spell focuses as well.

The other comments regarding SR are accurate.

Edit: Soulz beat me to the punch hehe
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: Xaltotun on September 17, 2011, 05:19:35 AM: All I can say is - good grief!!!

Thanks all for I have been playing this game for YEARS and never, ever got this one at all, but you have all just explained it to my slow wit :D

So all in all, that makes the dark elf's maximum spell resistance of 32 pretty much useless then, which is what I have been discovering to my chagrin 8), but it does make it easier to figure when and where she should be more protected :D

Thanks for kicking this off Merlin34.
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: Masterjack on September 17, 2011, 11:12:36 AM: Quote from: Xaltotun
All I can say is - good grief!!!

Thanks all for I have been playing this game for YEARS and never, ever got this one at all, but you have all just explained it to my slow wit :D

So all in all, that makes the dark elf's maximum spell resistance of 32 pretty much useless then, which is what I have been discovering to my chagrin 8), but it does make it easier to figure when and where she should be more protected :D

Thanks for kicking this off Merlin34.

MAx 32 SR for a Dark Elf? My Monk does not max it. Is this because Dark Elf is an add on to NWN? I checked and no where in LORE does it mention it maxing out at 32. Either this is an error in the Dark Elf build or LORE needs to be updated to reflect this fact. I would hate for someone to make a dark elf thinking it did not max out, then find out the hard way it did.

Bug report submitted http://forums.layonara.com/bug-reports/284423-spell-resistance-dark-elf.html#post1729299
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: geloooo on September 17, 2011, 11:45:43 AM: I think the LORE page should be amended to reflect that the Dark Elf SR caps at 32. I'm not sure how it is computed but I remember it capping at 32 around level 20 for Ni'haer. If it is left to go beyond 32, it would be too imbalanced and Dark Elves would be able to reach ridiculous levels of SR and they would be immune to all hostile magic.
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: Acacea on September 17, 2011, 11:49:30 AM: If you are playing a monk in a level that it matters, you have Diamond Soul, which is your level + 10...

(Edit - I should probably read more on my way out, or not at all... hmm)

The 32 would be because it's a skin and you can only give items 32 max, right? Different thing. My bad.
It is early. I will go away, now.
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: Dorganath on September 17, 2011, 12:23:54 PM: Item-based SR is limited to 32, and dark elf subrace properties are applied to items (skins), so yes, this is correct.

(source: Spell resistance - NWNWiki, the Neverwinter Nights Wiki - your guide to the game of NWN (http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_resistance))
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: Acacea on September 17, 2011, 12:28:38 PM: Yeah, I can't tell the difference between a 1 and a 2 before noon, apparently. I had to read it again. I think I have this revelation once a year, or something.
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: osxmallard on September 17, 2011, 03:17:49 PM: A level 40 dark elf skin should cap at 30 (without extra SR feats). Are we saying that you cannot cast a spell on a dark elf to raise SR above that? i.e. If a 30th level cleric casts on him 12+lvl (42 SR)... the dark elf will only see 32 max?
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: Masterjack on September 17, 2011, 03:27:34 PM: Quote from: osxmallard
A level 40 dark elf skin should cap at 30 (without extra SR feats). Are we saying that you cannot cast a spell on a dark elf to raise SR above that? i.e. If a 30th level cleric casts on him 12+lvl (42 SR)... the dark elf will only see 32 max?

The skin caps at 32 SR by level 22. It can still be raised by clerics of an appropriate level casting resistance on them.
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: osxmallard on September 17, 2011, 03:38:46 PM: Got it... I can't read either before 6am. +2 every 2 levels... so, basically +1 per level. I read it as +1 every 2 levels.

Same for deep gnome then too (which I have one of...)
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: miltonyorkcastle on September 18, 2011, 11:57:48 AM: Quote
the dark elf's maximum spell resistance of 32 pretty much useless

If it's an epic spell-caster, yeah, they will likely get past the SR, but spellcasters of 20th level and below have a significant chance of failure. My dark elf character is all but immune to anything cast by the creatures on Mistone.

For instance, a 20th level caster (with no spell penetration feats) tossing a spell at your dark elf rolls 1d20+20 to try and break your SR of 32. That means they have to roll a 12 or better, which means you will resist the spell entirely more than half the time.

I'd say that's still useful.
Title: Re: Spell Resistance
Post by: drakogear on April 12, 2012, 09:07:39 PM: Hm... another thing from the link that was posted...

Due to game limitations, spell resistance checks try to resist the most recently cast spell of the caster (or creature causing the spell resistance save as in planar rift). As a result, persistent spells (those that can initiate effects after some time has passed) may fail to register as the correct spell in the spell resistance check.

Additionally, While the numeric rating is the defense called "spell resistance", a spell resistance check actually involves three defenses. The defenses in the order they are checked are spell level absorption (mantles), spell immunity, then spell resistance.