Silver Enhancement Damage Change

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Hey guys,

I just noticed that the Silver Enhancement for weapons adds SLASHING damage vs Undead.  Unless I'm mistaken, aren't most undead Immune to slashing?  Wouldn't bludgeoning be better?

I'm just suggesting that changes.  What's the point of extra damage if the undead shrug off that kind?

[Dorganath]

This actually was asked quite a while ago, and while I forget the answer, it's a balance issue with the fact that silver also damages shapeshifters.  And most undead aren't immune to slashing but simply resistant to it.  The added damage does still stand a chance of affecting them just a little more.

You might be able to do a deep search on this. It has been discussed before, but it was quite a while ago.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Yes but the way the mods are set up is Vs. Shapeshifters and Vs. Undead.  I would think we could have the Vs. Undead changed to Bludgeoning and leave the Vs. Shifter alone.

If the issue is of balance, then why isn't it magical damage?  Wouldn't that make more sense?  folklore usual says that there is something magical about silver, and that's why it harms werewolves and vampires.  And since it would only harm those two categories, would it really unbalance anything?  Undead are already immune to critical hits and sneak attacks, so being able to do a bit more damage to them shouldn't be a big deal.

As far as I can recall, undead get I think damage resistance to slashing and piercing -/5.  if the lower tier enhancements only add +2 or +1d4, then what's the point of adding them?  Espeically to a bludgeoning weapon?

Could it be changed then to match the damage type of the weapon it is applied to?

[Dorganath]

Yes but the way the mods are set up is Vs. Shapeshifters and Vs. Undead.  I would think we could have the Vs. Undead changed to Bludgeoning and leave the Vs. Shifter alone.

If the issue is of balance, then why isn't it magical damage?  Wouldn't that make more sense?  folklore usual says that there is something magical about silver, and that's why it harms werewolves and vampires.  And since it would only harm those two categories, would it really unbalance anything?  Undead are already immune to critical hits and sneak attacks, so being able to do a bit more damage to them shouldn't be a big deal.

Heh...I don't know the answers to these questions. It was made that way before I even started here.  

Once more, there is an old discussion on this somewhere. See if you can find the search.  There is a reason, if one does not focus solely upon the one single issue of undead too closely. I just don't remember it off the top of my head.  Perhaps someone else does though. *shrugs*

So do a search...it's here somewhere.  Though I think the bit your missing here is that (if I remember correctly) the extra slashing helps overcome DR, and of course, it has a more profound effect when applied to a slashing weapon in this regard than to a bludgeoning weapon.

Also folklore and Layonara lore aren't necessarily the same thing.

As far as I can recall, undead get I think damage resistance to slashing and piercing -/5.  if the lower tier enhancements only add +2 or +1d4, then what's the point of adding them?  Espeically to a bludgeoning weapon?

Because they still apply to shapeshifters! It's a dual-purpose enhancement.

[Guardian 452]

Alright Mr. Peabody fire up the wayback machine

June 2005
http://forums.layonara.com/fixed-bugs/93533-cnr-silver-enhancement-slashing-dmg.html

July 2007
http://forums.layonara.com/fixed-bugs/106819-silver-enhancement-adds-slashing-damage.html

This is what I found on a quick search with keywords "Silver Enhancement"


.

[Hellblazer]

As far as I can recall, undead get I think damage resistance to slashing and piercing -/5.  if the lower tier enhancements only add +2 or +1d4, then what's the point of adding them?  Espeically to a bludgeoning weapon?

Could it be changed then to match the damage type of the weapon it is applied to?

I've seen undeads resist up to 11 points of physical damage vs silver coated sword (d8) or silver tipped arrows (+2d6 vs undeads and shapeshifters.)

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Ummm...

They don't say anything I find convincing to keeping it Slashing Vs. Undead.  They site Balance reasons but what is being balanced?  It would ONLY affect VS undead, and I see no reason for having to edit creatures if this simple change was made.  Does making it bludgeoning really change anything?

If it adds slashing damaging to overcome DR, how is this DR calculated?  Is it percentile?  A base amount?  If it's a base amount, whats the difference?  Sure, that would make my argument void right there but...  if the idea is to add extra damage, and the DR is the same amount needed to be overcome, then wouldn't making the extra damage bludgeoning guarrantee the EXTRA damage while still leaving the DR to be overcome by the weapon itself?

And then why NOT let blunt weapons have an advantage over undead with this enhancement?  Blunt weapons are SUPPOSED to be the bane of the undead.  You smash the body to bits, it's not getting back up.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Infact, the only thing that seems to be not wanted is a change from slashing or bludgeoning to some kind of Magic or Divine damage instead.

The concept of changing to bludgeoning seems to have been pushed to the side in favor of magic/divine...

[lonnarin]

Magical Energy Damage seems most appropriate.  And since it's only vs these animals types, shouldn't be unbalancing.

[Dorganath]

There are reasons given there, even if you don't agree with them.

However!

Not all undead are resistant (in one way or the other) to slashing damage.  Many, in fact, are not.  As well, there are undead that have resistance/reduction/partial immunity against bludgeoning damage.

Even in my relatively small sampling of both standard Bioware and Layonara custom undead, quite a few actually have no slashing resistance/reduction/partial immunityat all.  Skeletons and skeletal creatures tend to have some degree of resistance/reduction/partial immunity to slashing and piercing, but that is not a universal truth across the collection of undead.

I'm not going to go into what type of resistance/reduction/partial immunity those that have it possess, but trust me when I say the extra damage will make a difference even in these cases.  It may be slight, but it's more than you would otherwise have had.

[Guardian 452]

I guess my thing was it always seemed weird... adding slashing to a blunt weapon.

But it is what it is.