Question about duelist

[General_Ski]

I was somewhat confused by the description, on one hand being duelist demands a rapier weapon focus, on the other, it mentions any light weapons. So which is it? Can anyone shed some light on it for me please?

[Variable]

I think that the bonus applies to all light weapons but you still need to have the Raiper Weapon Focus to be able to take Duelist levels.

Correct me if i am wrong

[Vyris]

you have to have WF rapier for duelist, I don't think all the feats work with anything but rapiers... not sure, I wanted to use shortswords with mine, and it was a moot point by the time I got there.


Vyris

[General_Ski]

Hmm. Ok.. So it's rapier weapon + benefits only. FOllow up question then. Not wearing armor but using a shield.. Is that considered armored i.e. disable unarmored benefits.

[Pankoki]

Okay, you need weapon focus rapier but the bonuses will apply to any piercing melee weapons you have. To get the armour bonus you can't wear anything but clothing and no shields are allowed. Yes, we know in PnP is different but they were made this way for Layonara for balancing purposes.
  Any other questions that may pop:
  The precise strike feats are applied as extra weapon damage on the weapon thus they apply for even things without anatomy, clearly giving an advantage over sneak attack.
  You cannot use an off-hand weapon. Well you can but you wont get the precise strike bonuses. Again for balancing purposes.

[General_Ski]

Heh realistically speaking I'd add ac for a small or tiny off hand weapon, which would be used for blocking, or  breaking opponents main wep. But I guess that's too much, especially considering that weapons are unbreakable and don't have hitpoints on Layonara. So there is actually no opportunity to attack enemy weapon. Another question do benefits apply to primary hand, if an off hand weapon is equipped? Do the duelist damage abilities stack with sneak attacks?

[Pankoki]

Benefits only apply when using one weapon.
  Sneak attacks do stack.

[General_Ski]

Torch in the offhand does not affect the duelist stuff correct? Also what if clothing gives magic ac bonus, like monks robes for example or wizard ones? (implying use of use magical item skill).

[Pankoki]

I don't believe torches affect it.
  Magical clothing is still clothing. So yes you would be able to use it and still get the bonuses.
  Try it, its a fun class, it has a very nice spread potential and it is extremely brutal with a friendly cleric to buff. Trust me, I know from first hand experience.

[GhostWhoWalks]

Off hand has to be empty. 100% empty. The dance and acrobatics of the duelst isn't something they can do while carrying a torch or a shield or anything else. They need the freehand for balance and such.

You can wear any clothing. Any clothing that adds to your armor class will stack with the duelists bonuses to armor class. Any spells that add to armor class will stack with the duelists bonuses to armor class. You can also wear a helm, because it's not considered armor in NWN.

If the clothing is class restricted, like if it was monk only robes, then without levels of use magic device it wouldn't be wearable.

Small races like halfling and such would not be able to use a rapier, since it would be 2 handed. While they still need to take weapon focus: rapier, they would need to use short sword or dagger. It's sadly a limitation with NWN where we can't pick a group and say any weapon focus feat. We have to pick a specific one. We opted for rapier since that is the weapon most duelists use. But the bonus will apply to any light piercing weapon.

[General_Ski]

What about pendants, boots, belts, bracers, rings and such?

[FlameStrike]

Those can be used, since they're not armor, and aren't a hassle for the Duelist. He/she could dance while wearing his boots, or even with gloves on. And pendants aren't much of a problem either, i believe.

[GhostWhoWalks]

If it's not off hand, light, heavy, or medium armor.

The duelist can use them without any adverse effects.

With the right gear and with the right feats and such a duelist can obtain an armor class similar to a warrior in fullplate and tower shield. With the +2d6 at higher levels from precise strike, they can do damage on par with a strong warrior wielding a 2 handed sword. A bit more bursty... but the capability is there.

The duelist was an attempt to make a class for warrior types that didn't want to be the typical fullplate/shield but still wanted to be viable in combat. I think the balance we have is pretty good.

ID and I were once going to make tiefling duelist sisters... wonder why we didn't...

[General_Ski]

I can tell you why. Tiefling is a pain to level early on., speaking from personal experience, especially, if a non-melee class. Of course it would not hurt if duelist recieved some taunting benefits based on thei charisma.. I guess the main issue I might have with this class is rapier, since a would be follower or at least admirer of Deilar, after all the mix of money fate and luck is a powerful combination, especially for a duelist and say a rogue to boot.. I would make basic taunt requirments though, since a good duelist should use any trick in the book to get his opponent off balance. But those are simply personal observations.

[Chuckles_McChuck]

*sigh* this is making things more and more complicated for me.  When the duelist came out I thought it was a dream come true a perfect other class for my character if I wanted to multiclass her and I do want to multiclass her in this and had permission as long as I CDQ the means to become one in which I had a good idea for a CDQ, eventually balancing her 30 wizard/10 duelist.  Unfortunately when the class came out I was already lvl 9 and had only one of the required feats at the time but would work up to it, the in game description says that I only need base attack +6, weapon proficiency (elf), Dodge and Mobility; though this description in the handbook mentions 2 other things, I need weapon focus (rapier) and ambidexterity, at this rate I'll be lvl 22 or 25 before I can multiclass *sigh* and I'll be too high as a wizard by then.

[General_Ski]

I don't believe that they intended this for a high level wizard. May be one that can cast 6th level spells at most, which would allow some additional benefits as far as defense/offense, but would require those 5 fighter levels never the less. After all duelist is more of a melee type. I think it can be a perfect meld for a rogue/shadowdancer or a rogue/fighter, or any combination of classes that have use for decent int and high dexterity, and of course weapon finesse. I mean, if you  go high level as one class, might as well not multiclass to dilute your abilities, as well as to delay/sidetrack your epic development.
But that's just my 2 cents

[Chuckles_McChuck]

I'm aware of that, though saying it isn't made for a high level wizard I dissagree with.  The multiclass will accually help with some of my characters developement as well, she weilds a special rapier, which is the only weapon that can kill a very powerful wizard who lies in slumber and wait now for he succeeded in his task in this set of 100 years, but when he returns to once again gain the resourses he needs for his ritual of immortality and indastuctability (the ritual lasts 100 years then he must perform it again) and to obtain the only other thing he wants, which is Lia.  She will need to be able to use her rapier very effectively.

[General_Ski]

Touche... You scored a point. But as a wizard, to wield a rapier more effectively, you'd need weapon finesse would you not? Personally, I'd nail the wizard, while he is in his slumber.. Organize an expedition and get it over with, or hire professionals, after all all kinds of travellers visit the in. I am sure some of the will land a hand for the right price and others would more than readily assist a damsel in distress, who is pursued by a 100 year old lecher with goals of domination and immortality.

[Chuckles_McChuck]

heh, easier said then done, first of all his immortality makes him indestructable as well, he has the power to transfer his soul to the bodies of others, his origional body is accually long gone now, you kill the body he is in his soul will go into another one.  That is why the sword is needed, it holds a peice of his soul within it, and is the only thing that can attack his soul personally.  So mercinaries can help distract him, but Lia can only harm him.  Also, part of the swords power is that it can chose its weilder, and it chose Lia, any other who holds it will be harmed by the sword itself.  So it kinda makes it imperrative to be able to use the thing well.  Plus, I do have weapon finess, it isn't one of the required feats unfortunately.

[General_Ski]

Well, if you need any help, whistle me up.